Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Why is the smut locked in?

Well, Ann, I've read some fics that were better as gfic or pgfic because the nfic version was pretty lousy, so this isn't always true.

You are absolutely right, Nancy.

And Rivka, my intention was never to suggest that nfic is always brilliant, or that it is brilliant because it contains nfic scenes. I'm saying that some nfics contain brilliant nfic scenes, and in my opinion, these stories really lose something when they become PGified.

But, as Nancy said, nfic isn't brilliant just because it is nfic. Smut isn't good in and of itself. Indeed, sometimes a story becomes better when it loses its nfic scene(s) because the smut wasn't interesting in itself, and in fact it was a distraction rather than an important story element.

Ann

Oh, I beg to differ.

I posted a story over the summer which did really well on the nfic side. I spent hours cleaning it up into a PG version and... <crickets chirping>

It would appear that only two people have read it. <shrug> I had expected that would happen (that most people had read and commented on the N side) so I'm not *complaining*, I'm just playing devil's advocate. :p

You missed my point, TOC. It had nothing to do with whether an nfic was better or worse than its corresponding gfic. It had to do with having as much consideration for other people's preferences as you expect them to have for yours.



Sue, I'll bet there are more than two. Ah . . . some of us have just been really bad about fdk of late? (In my defense, I did catch up on 8 weeks of posts on the boards last night.)

For now I will give you a and an enslaved grape , but I promise something more substantial later. When I am both awake and not trying to get ready for work.

It's extraordinarily rare for a story which has been successful in nfic to get much fdk in gfic. You won't be the first or the last author to experience that one, Sue. I've known more than one author almost give up posting in gfic halfway through because their posts have had zero response.

But - you got two more fdk with the gfic version. That's more fdk. And you never know what fdk you'll get back once it's uploaded to the Archive. Not to mention that I guess a few Kerth noms, maybe even a win, could count as fdk. <g> I'd be mighty surprised if this story didn't show up on the noms at least next time around. So don't count out your gfic readers just yet.

LabRat

Just to peek my head in and contribute something - probably not useful - but anyway...

I understand *exactly* what Rivka is saying. There are just those people out there (on occasion me included - depending on my frame of mind) that just prefer not to read the nfic scenes. Who actually prefer that stuff to be left behind closed doors or left up to their imaginations (like the good old Cary Grant movies... mmm... yum!)

I was drawn in and enticed to write for the other side because people kept asking me to... but I much prefer to write a good A plot, good waffy scenes, and good angst... it's just how I work.

That's why, even when I've written (for the good or the bad... I'm certainly not as talented as others) something for the *nth* side - I still post a PG part over here for those readers who prefer to read about it over here.

And of course there are those who are limited by age (and again IMHO for good reason - I realize some people aren't affected by nfic as strongly as others... but I definitely feel that the age restriction is a good thing - and also, as it's been mentioned, it keeps that genre separate for those who DO NOT want to inadvertantly stumble into it).

Now, as far as fdk is concerned... well, if I've posted on the other side, I generally don't get fdk on the PG boards. But I don't think that means people aren't reading it. I think people are still reading, they may just be too busy (as Rivka made us aware) to post fdk. I've also noticed that a few people feel intimidated about starting a fdk thread if there isn't already one available - and in this case a lot of the "fdk thread starters" will have already left fdk on the other side.

Oh, and as a side little nit - Sue, you've finished PGifying Faustian... now you only have one little part left to do for Evasive Action - come on... I know you can do it. If you can do the momumental task of Faustian - I know you can finish one little part for poor little Evasive Action.

Come on... you can do it. It really wants to make it's way to the archive...

Okay. I'm done now.

-- DJ

This is a good point. And, remember, authors, it's not considered out of the norm to set up your own fdk thread when you post a story segment. That can encourage fdk more than letting your readers do it. Although, of course, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

It certainly does! You need to bump up that page of yours a little, Sue. It's looking sparse. <g>

LabRat

Yes, Rivka, but I don't expect people to rewrite their deathfics and remove the death from it. I don't expect deathfics to exist in another version which can be uploaded to the Archive, while the fic containing the death can not. And yes, I realize that non-death deathfic is not exactly the same thing as PGified nfic. But still. Perhaps I would be as happy to read those Lois deathfics where Lois doesn't die as you are to read the nfics where the nfic scenes are removed? Except unlike you, I never get the chance to read those "sanitized" stories.

Sorry. I realize that the comparison isn't fair, as I said. It's not fair because a "sanitized" deathfic would have to have a drastically changed plot, which is not the case at all for PGified nfic. But I don't think your comparison was fair either, Rivka. Precisely because I never get to read any "un-death-ified" deathfic.

EDIT: Of course, sometimes a PGified nfic does require a drastically changed or gutted plot. Which is why Sue has not yet been able to PGify the final part of Evasive Action, I'll wager.

Ann

There is that.

When I first heard of NFic (way back in my BtVS days), I thought it was awful--"people should have privacy for the sacred acts of making love/having sex! It's not something to write about and share with the world!" was my mantra.

But then, I read some really good NFic (and a lot of really terrible NFic too), and I was hooked. I do try to avoid it when I first get into a fandom though--read the GFic first, then if I'm enticed by the PG version of a great NFic, then I'll pop over and read the NFic.

I just refuse to write any myself, since I still believe that whole thing I just said--I don't want to perpetuate the "problem." :p

I think recent posts just prove the point at the start of this thread. The system we currently operate means that those who want to read/enjoy reading nfic have the means and opportunity to do so and those who prefer to avoid it don't have to.

Different horses for different courses. Reading tastes are personal and a matter of individual choice. I like that as a fandom we offer as wide a choice as possible, while respecting the boundaries of individual opinion.

LabRat

I like that too.

No, you just protest every deathfic to the point that authors are unwilling to write/post them.

This isn't directed specifically at DJ, but her quote started me thinking about what I mentioned before--this assumption that nfic is all about nasty bits and smut (the assumption the writer of Arawn's posted article), which from this thread still seems to be alive and kicking.

Even reading things like "brilliant nfic" gives me pause because I'm not sure if people mean adult fic (fics of an adult nature) or nfics with sex scenes anymore. I supose the distinction doesn't matter, depending on taste.

There is that. But that seem to be how people who have trouble with open access smut, handle it as well.

-Yes, I saw it was in the erotic stories section and I don’t like that filth, but for some reason I couldn’t stop reading and the emotional distress it caused me is those writers fault.

To me that’s just baffling. Why can’t people just not read those stories that doesn’t appeal to them?

And from my experience the Gfic version of a fic is often less intense, some I’ve even misunderstood because things had been cut to harshly. There are some that have been better also, mainly those that the Nfic scenes served little purpose but titillation.

I’ve great difficulty believing that the Gfic version of Faustian is more rewarding then the original and would much rather see Sue writing something new. So I really hope that those authors that Giefiy their Nfic doesn’t do it simply to get the recognition their stories deserve.

I think it because those with Nfic access are the hardcore readers, otherwise they wouldn’t have taking the trouble to get in, and they aren’t as hesitant in making noise either as those that are just browsing.

While I don't agree with Ann's pov on deathfic and the posting of deathfic here on these mbs, I have to say that I haven't noticed any great dearth of them recently.

Quite the opposite in fact - I've been really pleased to see so many authors posting deathfic over recent months and that the reader response has been - generally - favourable.

Another sign of the opening up of the fandom, it becoming less restrictive, that I've generally noticed over the past couple of years and heartily approve of.

So I'm not sure where you get the impression from, Rivka, that authors are being put off from posting deathfic here. There seems to be plenty of it around.

LabRat

PS - Weird moment. While spellchecking this post, the spellchecker kept urging me to replace 'deathfic' with 'pathfinder'. In what bizarro world are they connected?

My apologies for knocking this thread completely off-trajectory, especially to show my own ignorance, but...there's a spellchecker? Where would one find it?

And yes, the deathfic/pathfinder thing is all kinds of weird!

I actually do have some thoughts on the subject at hand but no time to state them properly right now.

Thanks,

Caroline, who clearly never should have graduated from two tin cans and a string

Not necessarily, Arawn. I consider myself a "hardcore reader," since I've now read most of the fics at the archives at least twice now--and I did that within the space of 10 months. But I did not start reading the Nfic at Annesplace until I was about half-way to 3/4 of the way through the archive the SECOND time.

Why? Because I wasn't in the mood for Nfic until then. But once I saw the Nfic, then while I was reading through the Gfic, if I found a fic with an N version, then I popped on over to Annesplace to read that version as well. If the stories were well-written, I found that I liked both versions.

As for here at the boards, I didn't start reading the Nfic here until I saw the Gfic version of Faustian chapter 1. That ONE chapter was so well-written, despite its lack of N-ness, and I knew about the Nfic version before-hand and that it was almost finished. So, I decided to read the Nfic version. I was definitely not "just browsing."

It all depends on one's definition of "rewarding." I find Gfic versions of Nfic quite rewarding, as long as there's still a great plot leftover after the adult themes are cut.

And so what if Nfic authors who Gify their fics ARE looking for recognition in Gfic? Feedback is what keeps authors going, after all. Although, I would hope that there are other reasons as well--like wanting to share the story with as many readers as possible, thereby entertaining everybody who chooses to open the files.

I agree that some of the more adult-theme-heavy fics shouldn't be Gified--there wouldn't be anything left except maybe some dialogue and stuff!

But . . .

Wait, what was my point again?

Oi. I've rambled.

Anyway, Gfic versions of Nfic, to me, are good, no matter which was written first (and yes, I have seen Gfics turned into Nfics--it's rare, but it happens), PROVIDED that the original story was well-written in the first place, i.e. Sue's Faustian Bargain.

Okay, Arawn, here again you are forgetting that some of our readers are under age and can't access nfic. At least in my particular writing - I pgify a story for *those* readers because they *can't* access my story, and I would like for them to be able to. Plus, don't knock someone just because they don't want to read smut. They may really want to read a story by a particular author but just find smut offensive. Therefore, by posting a PG version, those interested readers still get to enjoy a very good story (just a smutless one).

I agree that some PGified stories, if not done well, can be not quite as good as the original. It depends on how much time and effort the author is willing to put into the Pgifying of it. And there are some scenes that just aren't capable of being PGified... period.

The PG version of Faustian to you may not be nearly as rewarding as the *n* version. But, for those underaged people out there, it's great for them that they can at least read the PG version. And for people who do have an aversion to actual smut - it's great for them as well. Because let's face it - Sue's story ROCKED!!! The A-plot and the relationship aspect as well as her spectacular characterizations are something that I would hate for anyone to miss. If I wanted to re-read Faustian and somehow didn't have access or want to read the nfic version, I would very happily read the PG version, because I loved the "story" -- more than just the smut. I have no idea if anyone understands what I mean by that... but well... there you have it.

-- DJ


***edited***

Oh, yes, and well, there is THAT

They do have 5 consecutive letters in common. What spellcheck are you using? Mine isn't often smart enough to suggest alternatives that begin with a different letter.

I'm glad to hear that my perception is not universally shared.

I know exactly what you're saying, DJ, and I agree wholeheartedly.