Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related The Recent Spate of Deathfics

I just wanted to post a request.

As many of you know, I lost my sister in December. Then, after the story by Catherine, there was this long discussion about deathfics. I guess the consensus was that we don't need to be warned, but it's getting so I'm afraid to open any stories at this point for fear it will be a deathfic. Death may be a part of life, but I've had my fill of it for a long time to come. I'm still dealing with the results of my sister's death, including the fact that my mother, who has Alzheimers, and handicapped brother are moving in next week. I need something to take my mind off of everything for a little while every day, and I'm deathly afraid to open new stories because several of them have turned out to be exactly what I am desperately trying to avoid.

Please, please post some kind of warning. It may give a writer a warm feeling to spring something like this on the unsuspecting reader, but at the moment it's tearing me apart.

Nan

Nan,

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I can understand why you wouldn't want to read deathfic.

Is it possible that authors could put a warning in the story just beforehand (as a header note at the start of the part) so that those who truly don't want to read that kind of fic can close it and move on? It's possible that readers who are just generally opposed to the genre may be hooked and wish to continue reading.

There will be angst at the end of the story I'm currently posting, but no one dies.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss and wish you all the best.

Sue

This solution has the same problem as any other warning in the story, Sue. Some authors simply don't want to telegraph a 'surprise' ending or that the story is deathfic in advance.

It is entirely possible to warn that an upcoming story is deathfic, however, without spoiling the story. All the author has to do is use the WHAM Warning thread, stickied at the top of the fanfic folder. This is the best way we can find to suit all parties.

The WHAM warning thread does provide the means for an author to warn readers that a story is deathfic and enables readers to avoid that if they choose, without spoiling the 'surprise' when the story is actually posted. Those who don't care whether a story is deathfic or not, won't read the WHAM Warning thread and so won't be spoiled. Those who do care and don't want to read deathfic, can read the WHAM Warning thread and will be duly warned to avoid the story when it's posted.

So it may be a nice courtesy and gesture on an author's part to use it. I think most authors forget it's there to be honest.

However, at the end of the day, it has always been the policy of this forum that warnings of any kind are entirely the author's choice. And so any use of the WHAM warning thread definitely would be nothing more than a courtesy and not something mandatory.

LabRat

I admit that I haven't had the time to look at all the new stories lately, and may be wrong, but I thought that all the recent deathfics did have warnings attached to them.

Maybe we should do this the other way around? You know, the not deathfics places a small note about it in the header? I mean, that can't possibly ruin any suprises, right?

Well, okay, I admit...it does sound silly. But it's still an option.

I don't care for deathfic either. I will admit that it doesn't bother me if it is a non-regular character. To kill off one of the regular characters is sacrilge. I read these stories for relaxation and enjoyment and killing off one of my beloved main characters is not enjoyable. Why, if you are into Lois and Clark, would you kill off a regular character. To kill off any of the main characters is incomprehensible to me.

I guess the WHAM thread is the best bet because I do not have the time to start a story that I'm not going to finish because of WHAM. Just as I don't have time to read a story that is never going to be finished. So since I wait for stories to be finished before starting I sure as heck don't want to start one only to get into the story and find out it is a deathfic.

I guess this comes under different strokes for different folks, Kmar. It would be a boring world if we all liked to write/read the same kinds of stories.

As I've said previously, deathfic isn't one of my favourite genres, one that I would especially seek out, but there are deathfic that I've enjoyed reading and which have made their way into my favourites folders over the years. So I guess I'm fairly ambivalent about it. Can take it or leave it.

But what I do like is variety - especially here in FoLCdom, where the stories are less varied than in many other fandoms/fanfic I've read. It's always nice to have something different come along now and then.

LabRat

I would not put deathfics at the top of my favorite reading list, but I don't find them incomprehensible either. The best stories for me are the ones that make me feel...something. Some strong emotion. It might be humor, or it might be sadness, or it might be sexual tension. It might just be empathy or sympathy for what the characters are going through. But if you can make your readers care enough about the characters to feel right along with them, then you've probably done something right as a writer. Fan fic writers have a head start because readers generally go in caring about the characters, but you still have to make those characters seem real enough that the reader cares about what they're going through.

Writers write deathfic because it's an obvious venue for exploring some very strong, very basic emotions - anger, grief, etc. And the episode TOGOM gave this fandom the freedom to do that in a "safe" way, with a happy ending; judging by the success of many of those stories, the readers lapped it up. It may be that writers feel that the potential of that episode has been exhausted at this point and are moving on to deathfics where you don't get the happy ending. Also, in TOGOM, Lois is the one who does the grieving; some of these writers may want to shift the focus to Clark and what his life would be like if Lois died. I'm just guessing and haven't read any of the recent stories in question, so I can't comment on them specifically.

Writers also write deathfic for the challenge of it. Writing "extreme emotion" is pretty hard - to me anyway - and it can be exciting to actually pull it off. It's scary, too, because if you miss, you miss by a mile. You can get by with a so-so chapter in a plotty story, but if you try to write a laugh-out-loud fic and nobody does, or a deathfic and nobody cries...well, that's just a disaster.

As for why readers like deathfic, I think it's because when it's well-done, a good cry can be cathartic, and crying over a fictional character - even a beloved one - beats the heck out of crying over a real life friend or loved one. I've only written one story where a major character dies, and it was the only story I ever posted in that particular fandom. Granted, it was a "peaceful death at the end of a long life" scenario, but still, I fully expected to be hounded right out of the fandom! Instead, the response was overwhelmingly positive. I got all these e-mails from people who said they'd cried buckets over my story, and would I please write some more. So go figure. Looking back, my most "popular" stories overall, the ones that have garnered the most feedback from readers, have not necessarily been the ones that I thought were the best-written, best-plotted, etc. Without exception, they've been the ones that made people either laugh or cry. The latter might not be everyone's cup of tea, but some readers really do respond to it.

I won't address the issue of how much warning an author should be expected to give, except to say that I can see both sides of the issue. As a reader, there are certain themes I prefer to avoid, and I do appreciate having a heads up so that I can do that. As a writer, I can relate to the reluctance to give too much of the story away in the author's notes.

I am very sorry for Nan's loss, however, and sorry that reading fanfic lately hasn't been the escape from real life that she wants/needs it to be.

Best,

Caroline

I promised myself I wouldn't say anything else on the topic of deathfic, but... a quickie.

The TOGOM stories, where Lois grieves, aren't deathfic, because Clark survives. The recent spate of deathfic, as Nan put it, usually deal with Clark's grief and Lois's death. So in the world of Lois and Clark, deathfic preferably means death-of-Lois fic.

There is a whole world of Superman products and Superman continuity out there, beyond this fandom. In that world, Superman will never die. Lois, on the other hand, could definitely be killed there. So we have a big world of Superman, where Superman is sure to live on, but Lois might die. And we have a Lois and Clark fandom, where it has become increasingly popular to kill Lois. The only possible reason for this that I can imagine is that not only Superman fans in general, but also LnC fans in general, care less about Lois than they care about Clark.

All I can say is this: If I have to pick one type of story I don't want to read, just one, it would be a death-of-Lois story. Because I worry about the survival of Lois, but I don't worry about the survival of Clark.

Ann

I imagine it's probably more because it's a darn sight easier to kill a human like Lois than it is to kill someone invulnerable like Clark!

On the subject of the tendency to kill off Lois rather than Clark, (such as I believe in it. I tend to think there are actually quite a few stories on the Archive where the opposite is true) there is actually precedence in the show for this. It's practically canon.

In STG...Myrtle Beech deliberately picks Lois as her target to kill, not Clark, because she believes that of the two, Clark will suffer more from Lois dying than vice versa:

I think there is sometimes a general notion that if Clark was to die Lois would grieve deeply, but she'd eventually get on with her life (you see that in plenty of stories where Clark dies or doesn't return from New Krypton), remarry or whatever. But Clark is often seen as having his life come to a complete halt and not being able to move on if Lois dies.

And if you accept that premise, then it's naturally going to achieve more angst, more emotive resonance, if you kill Lois.

Either way, one thing I have learned over the years is that making assumptions about the motivations of authors usually only leads to one thing - being wrong. Like any group of individuals their reasons are usually varied and many and can't seriously be boiled down to generalisations.

LabRat

LabRat, you are totally right that I can't make assumptions about why other people write the stories they do.

Let me say, though, that I'm convinced about this. There won't ever - ever be a lengthy continuity of independent Lois Lane stories where Lois is seen moving on after Clark/Superman has died. Where she is seen living a life all her own, dating other men, getting on with her career. But it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we are eventually going to be treated to years and years of Superman stories where Lois is dead or gone and Clark goes on with his life anyway. Where he goes on with his life without sparing many thoughts for Lois, I might add. Because this is another thing that I'm certain of: If Lois is killed in the "real world" - the DC Comics world, the movie world, whatever - and Clark has to go on without her, then he will. And believe me, if we see him spare a thought for her every other year, we will be lucky. Basically, I'm sure of this: if Lois dies in "the real world", she will soon be forgotten.

And this is the reason why any angsty story about Clark grieving over Lois's death ultimately falls flat for me. Because I see in my mind's eye what Clark would be like after a few months' or a few years' worth of stories after Lois died in the "real world": he would be completely indifferent.

The reason why I don't worry too much about Clark deathfic is - I repeat it - that I know that Superman simply won't be allowed to die in the "real world" or whatever we should call it. But Lois's existence is precarious. To read Lois deathfics is, to me, equivalent with having salt rubbed into the wounds of my worries about Lois. I can't help that I hate it. And I can't help that it hurts. It hurts the wrong way, too. I know I'm supposed to cry a cathartic bout of tears for Clark and then feel relieved and uplifted, but all I can feel is increased fears for Lois and a sort of desperate fury that people who are supposed to be fans of Lois seemingly want to kill her. All right - I know that isn't fair. I don't really think that any member of these boards honestly wants Lois to die and disappear for good. Because we all know that there will be a new story tomorrow where Lois is alive again, so even if people kill her in their stories, her death isn't permanent.

But seeing that there are two things I have wanted for Lois and Clark during my 37 years as a Superman and Lois, fan, namely, that Lois and Superman/Clark should get together and that Lois mustn't die, I just hate Lois deathfic and I always will.

Ann

I agree that this is unlikely to happen, in any corner of the "Superman" fandom.
I don't know about in the comics world, or even in what will happen in the movies, although I would think that even if Lois were in fact killed off permanently, I don't know that that Clark would only grieve for a short time before moving on. I can't say that it wouldn't happen, but I don't necessarily believe that that would be the case.

But I definitely don't see it happening in FoLCdom. We love the thought of the two of them together, no matter how much angst we may put them through in order to achieve that end result. No matter how many - or how few - deathfics are written here, I'm convinced that they will always be vastly overwhelmed by the number of stories with them together, as they should be.

To get back to the subject of warnings, even though I personally don't need to be warned before reading a story, I have absolutely no objections to any kind of a warning that an author chooses to give. That being said, I admit that I'm still a little behind on some of the stories being posted lately. I can think of three deathfics that have been posted since the big thread on the subject, and all of them have some kind of warning at the beginning of the story, although they didn't always use the word deathfic.

I understand that some authors don't want to give out a major spoiler at the beginning of their stories. So I'd like to reiterate the suggestion that others have made about giving a WHAM warning at the beginning, and then giving more details at the end. Even just the words "deathfic - XXXXX dies" at the end of a file would probably be enough.

I know that we don't want to make warnings a requirement of this fandom, like it is in others. But since it has become a pretty-much established tradition to post some kind of WHAM warning, is it unreasonable to ask that the words "deathfic of XXXX" appear somewhere where they can be easily found?

Kathy

Let me say, for the record, that I understand that people don't "kill off" Lois in fics or videos because they hate her. I recently watched Rach's video She's, and even I could see that it was beautiful. What Rach wanted to achieve with it was to make us feel how much Clark would grieve for Lois if she died, nothing else.

But, Kathy, a specific deathfic warning is something I would appreciate.


Ann

But that is what the WHAM warning thread is for - as an alternative for authors who don't want to put a warning at the top of their story.

And, while I can see the perspective of those who don't want to read deathfics, has there really been a spate, or even so much as a trickle, of deathfics without warnings? Because I haven't seen any.


Wendy

Oh, I know that, Wendy. But, taking a peek at that WHAM thread, it appears that most authors are placing their warnings at the beginning of their stories instead. Perhaps that's personal preference, perhaps it's forgetting about the existence of the warning thread. For people who need warnings, the fact that they are included at all is appreciated, I'm sure.

But for those who have an intensely negative, visceral response to deathfic, it may not be enough if the wham warning does not mention that there is a death of one of the major characters. But since we all understand that many authors don't want to give too much away at the beginning, a few brief words at the end of the post - or in the warning thread - might help keep everybody happy. I was simply reiterating the suggestion since it seems that it's the best possible compromise.

Well, I haven't seen any posted without ANY warnings. But although the wham warnings for two of the vignettes strongly implied character death to me, they never actually "said" it. This would be an example of where the word "deathfic", posted somewhere where people could find it BEFORE reading, would be helpful for those who require the warning.

Kathy

This is a good idea, Kathy, and would certainly help those authors who don't want to 'spoil' a story in advance. The only drawback to it, would be that it spoils the story before it gets to the Archive and that might be a problem for an author.

Although I would think that anyone reading the warning at the end of a post here on the mbs is unlikely to then read the story on the Archive and probably anyone reading on the Archive isn't likely to have first read it on the mbs. If that makes sense. <g>

Sounds to me like a good compromise.

LabRat

I don't see why we couldn't do the same for the stories in the Archive, Labby. For instance, I remember CC Aiken putting her spoiler-full author's notes for The Late Great Lois Lane in the end of the story.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Hiya - I like the idea of it at the end of a story. It sounds like a great comprimise if the 'wham' folder isn't an option to some.

Hope everyone has a fab weekend and may the weather be what you wish.

Well... I understand and sympathise with those readers. Really. I'm a squeamish reader myself, always have been. And my step-dad and grandmother both died within the last year.

But.

At some point, those readers have to take responsibility for their own choices. Deathfic *is* a possibility around here. (I don't think it's wildly popular, but then I don't usually read it so I'm probably not up on the trends.) The reader has to recognize that risk, going in.

Authors aren't required to reveal all their plot twists up front, so we have to rely on clues. Maybe the author posts a note assuring us that the toys go back in the box in good shape. Or maybe it's an author who's known to abhor deathfics. Peek into the comments folders. Bail out if the plot seems to be going in a direction you can't stand. Or there's the option to write to the author privately -- when I first started posting Tryst, someone contacted me for reassurance. I told her it would all come out okay, but she still chose to not read it in installments, and maybe not at all. Perfectly fine by me. I've skipped out on reading some Yvonne fics 'cause I knew they'd get too intense for me. Sometimes I've read something I'd rather not have read, but... that's the risk I take.

We can't all demand that the rest of the world coddle our sensitive feelings. What if I decided that I am intensely offended by any hint of extra-marital, um, relations? Even when referenced in vague terms and euphemisms (or even those smutty asterisks), I can tell it's there, and I am outraged! Authors who are going to go that filthy route should post a warning. It's only fair.

I know that sounds harsh, and I apologise. But there's something to be said for the "if you don't want to watch, change the channel" school of thought. You can't expect to impose your requirements on everyone else.

PJ

Is the death of Lois possible in the comic world? Sadly, I suspect it is. Superman has been created and recreated many times through the decades, and a Superman without Lois might be a direction they eventually choose to go.

But why does most deathfic focus on Lois's death? I think for precisely the reason Caroline pointed out above. If you want to explore the reaction of Lois to the death of Clark, you quickly recap TOGOM, come up with a reason for Clark to pretend death for an extended period of time, and voilà -- Clark is "dead" and Lois is grieving his loss.

But there's still Superman, you say? A chapter or two laced with Kryptonite will fix that.

Say you want to explore how Lois interacts with his parents after his "death" -- you come up with a Clark scenario where he doesn't/can't contact his parents. He was confined on an island Luthor built with a tiny level of Kryptonite in the soil, just enough to keep him "human." At the end of the story, he will finish gnawing down trees with his teeth and build a raft.

Essentially, TOGOM provides an "accepted" contrivance to explore the impact of Clark's death on anyone and anything you care to examine. No such contrivance exists for Lois. She isn't Kryptonian -- it's a little harder to kill her convincingly without actually killing her. And so, authors who wish to explore this situation do kill her.

(Nan, though obviously as backstory, did so in the incredible Home series -- Lois has died, Clark has been shattered for a few decades, and now has found something that causes him to wake up. Lois reincarnated. That last is hard to manage pre-death. This is not meant to be insulting, but simply to suggest that the death of Lois or anyone else can be necessary to the situation an author wishes to explore.)

Now, to be fair, there are stories that end in the death of Lois. Those don't generally fall in this category, though they probably could -- the author wants to explore Lois's thoughts just before _____ finally kills her. Though as demonstrated in 24 Hours, that can be explored with Lois saved at the last second.

All this to say, simply, that there are situations an author could realistically want to explore in this fandom which might call for the death of a character. How can concerned readers avoid them? Authors don't seem to mind that the synopsis sentence is present on the Archive -- would it be that bad to request that authors post a similar synopsis in the opening of their story, or have a thread for them? "Clark deals with his grief after Mxyzptlk turns Lois into a giant pink bunny in a rabbit's-foot factory in Oklahoma. Meanwhile, the irksome imp has caused Clark's capes to dye any other fabric they touch purple. Can Clark spell Kltpzyxm before it's too late?"