Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Verbs to use in dialogue tags

This has been brought up a couple of times before in threads regarding writing style and such, but I'm hoping to see a discussion centered around it anyway. It's not that much a question as an 'asking for your views' topic. So here it goes.

The structure I would like to discuss is this:

1) "Nice to meet you," he smiled.

I've seen several different views on which verbs should be used in dialogue tags when there is a comma before, and there's a vast number of people who strongly disagree on using verbs like 'smile', 'grin', 'pout' etc., arguing that they don't indicate speech. Instead, they suggest:
a) "Nice to meet you." He smiled.
or
b) "Nice to meet you," he said with a smile.
or something around those lines.

I see their point. But personally, I'd put 'smiled' on structure 1 anytime. It seems to me that it indicates something that goes with the words the speaker said. It's like he had a smile on his lips while he was saying that. Structure a) looks to me like the speaker first said that, then smiled. Structure b) has the same meaning with the one I give to structure 1, but it has an additional 'said'. And since it's unavoidable to use 'said' a good number of times (especially when your fics are dialogue based, like mine usually are), I tend to avoid it when writing.
I should add that it doesn't annoy me at all when I read stories that don't follow this line. I'm not sure I notice, even. But that's what I apply when I write.

So, FoLCs... what are your thoughts on the subject?

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Well, I try to avoid that first example. If the verb indicates speech (said, replied, asked, demanded, etc) then it's a continuation of a sentence and it gets a comma and lower case letter.

"Nice to meet you," he said, smiling.

If it's an action (smiled, laughed, glared, groaned, etc) then it's a new sentence so it gets a period and an uppercase letter.

"Nice to meet you." He smiled.

If I wanted to emphasize the smile, I'd probably just reverse the order:

He smiled. "Nice to meet you."

You can talk while smiling, so I guess it's sort of ambiguous -- but you can't really talk while sighing, groaning, laughing. Or at least, most people don't. So they don't indicate speech, and that's why it's separated from the dialog.

Or so I've been told, by many many beta readers and GE's over the years

Personally, I like using action tags to indicate the speaker. It cuts down on "said" although that's such a common word I don't think most people really notice it, unless it's in every paragraph. It's an economical way to get description in with your dialog. It makes you work a little harder to make your dialog stand on its own -- show agitation, don't just write "agitated."

"I see that," he said, sarcastically.

vs.

"Yeah, right, I can tell." He rolled his eyes.

But variety is the spice of life and you need a mix of speech tags, action tags, and just plain lines of dialog. Any kind of tag gets annoying if it's used exclusively. Give the reader credit for being able to figure things out.

Or that's what I can come up with at 8:15am when I'm working on six hours of sleep.

PJ

Yep, I've been pursuaded by BRs over the years that what Pam says is the best way to go.

My problem is in trying to come up with a wide enough variety of phrases to indicate expression, mannerism, etc when speaking. "He rolled his eyes" is great to indicate sarcasm, but when you've used that three times in the last three pages, what else is there? Perhaps we could start a handy library .

Yvonne

For several years, as a GE and BR, I've been running a campaign against non-speech speech tags. In other words, any time I see anyone using 'he smiled', 'she shrugged', 'he grinned', 'she sighed' or similar actions as speech tags, I point out that these are not 'speech verbs' and so can't substitute for one.

Yes, you can smile while speaking, but smiling on its own doesn't involve use of the vocal chords. You have to engage speech at the same time, and that's why 'smiled' isn't a speech verb and shouldn't be used as a speech tag.

If you really do want to avoid the repetitive use of 'said', then Pam's suggestion is best. Use the action as what writing guides call a 'beat' - such as:

• He grinned. "So how about it, partner?"
• "I'm so tired." She sighed.
• "We did it!" He laughed and threw his arms around her.
• Her smile brightened her entire face. "I love you too, Clark."

'Beats' are useful for breaking up dialogue. They help to avoid the repetitive use of 'said' or the overuse of adjectives, as Pam shows - for example, which is more vivid? He said angrily, or He glared at her, eyes cold behind his glasses. "And why should I believe you this time, Lois?"


Wendy

What everyone else said.

I do tend to correct this one to the first example or something similar if I'm editing or GEing and spot it.

I'm a big fan of action tags, too. But my main theory is the one Pam mentioned:

A little bit of everything, usually does the trick.

I do have a problem with naked dialogue though. I always have this urge to add a narrative tag. It's compulsive. When I actually manage to write a run of naked dialogue I'm so pleased with myself. And I do consciously go through what I've written afterwards and remove every narrative tag I think I can get away with.

LabRat

Ever since I started to take writing seriously and have explored the craft, I've been troubled by the "rule" that the best speech tag is simply said. Supposedly, the word said just disappears in the reader's mind and doesn't distract from what's being communicated. I understand this in theory, but I can't help but want to use things like screeched, whined, whispered and the like when my characters are talking. An entire page with "saids" just looks horribly and seems boring. Like watching a back and forth tennis match.

Even so, I do see the reasons that using action words as speech tags (smiled, sneered, laughed) doesn't work. You can't smile something.

And I do agree with Pam and the others that the best way to do it is to show what the speaker is feeling in the words they've chosen and in description of phycical actions rather than using adjectives. Although, this is a challenge!

Lynn

It was when I read "he rasped" in a romance novel that I decided to limit my own use of speaker tags to a tiny handful like "said," "whispered," "muttered," and "shouted." I included those because the only other way to indicate volume is with an adverb (loudly, softly) or with a longer descriptive sentence, so these particular tags are more economical and active. I occasionally use "replied" if there are several paragraphs between a question and its answer, and I think the only time I use "asked" is if I need to establish POV at the beginning of a new section and the viewpoint character is asking a question.

In general, though, I rarely use speaker tags. If I need to identify the speaker, I use beats: "He smiled." "She sighed."

See, I just don't understand this. If you're going to use a tag that the reader isn't going to notice - why not just not use anything at all? It would have the same result.

LabRat

I fall in the middle -- I wouldn't use "smiled," because there's no sound involved. However, things like "sigh" or, yes, "rasp" do have associated sounds.

The masked villian held a knife to her throat, rasping, "Don't yell for Superman -- we have kryptonite!"
"Just great," she sighed.

Too, other words about attitude imply speech:

"Lois, we've been nominated for the Pulitzer! They've recognized your superior abilities," he exulted.
"Jointly? I wanted my own," groused Lois.

Used sparingly, just about any verb with an implied vocal sound would work. I can most definitely sigh a brief statement and it sounds different from whispering or saying. But as said, variety is spice -- and you make a cake using mostly normal ingredients and a little spice, not the other way around.

Well, I think the idea is that you want the reader to focus on the dialog, not on the tags. Too many "colorful" verbs are distracting. Or so the theory goes.

PJ

I generally try to write with the idea in mind that if I can avoid it, to not use a dialogue tag at all. And, if I do use a tag, I try at the very least not to tack on an adverb to it, which is my ultimate pet peeve. I prefer "said", or verbs that directly imply speaking: blurted, repeated, added, interjected, snapped etc.

I think this one needs to be among the ones stuck to the top of this forum...

I have found it to be very educational.

James

While beta reading my story, Gerry pointed me to the following helpful websites on this topic:

http://www.fmwriters.com/Visionback/Issue%205/tags.htm
http://www.anecdote.org/writing/Dialogue_Tags__A_Study_in_Common_Errors.html

I thought they were excellent resources to help writers understand this subject.
Susan

Oh, yeah, I understand that. But if you want the reader to focus on the dialogue, not the tag - don't use a tag. Just have naked dialogue. That seems more logical to me.

If the experts claim that using said is the same as using nothing at all - wouldn't nothing at all be easier? Putting in something that's designed not to be noticed seems entirely redundant to me, is what I mean. Logically, you might as well just put nothing at all, save yourself some typing, and come up with the same result.

Having said that, I think I'm at odds with the experts on this theory entirely. I can't say I've ever not noticed 'said' when I read it. In fact, I tend to notice it more than anything else, I think.


LabRat

Wow, am I in the minority or what?
Although you haven't changed my mind yet

Gotta say, though, interesting links the one Gerry gave you, Susan.

Labby, not that I'm an expert of that theory, but I think that the point of 'not noticing' the tag means that you get to see who's talking without getting distracted by a fancy verb. Just a thought.

Thanks for the replies, everyone! Keep them coming!
AnnaBtG.

I understand that you phrased it as a debate, Anna, and it's been an interesting thread. However, while questions like the use or overuse of 'said' and other speech tags are obviously matters for debate and the different views on this have been nice to see, unfortunately this:

is actually grammatically incorrect. So you'll probably find that any GE you work with will want to correct it. Sorry!


Wendy

I'll throw my weight as an English teacher behind Wendy's statement. Anna, 'he smiled' is not a speaker tag, so it cannot be attached to a quotation with a comma. In English, we only allow speaking verbs (and there are certainly over 100 of them--I used to collect them when I was a teenager) to be used as speaker tags. To use your example: He smiled. "Nice to meet you." means that the speaker says the words with a smile on his lips. There is no need to try attach 'he smiled' to the end of the quotation as a mock speaker tag to get the same effect. LabRat, the main reason for using "said" is to give the writer a reason to insert the character's name next to his/her dialog, to remind the reader who is speaking. Naked dialog wouldn't give the same effect because the reader might still be counting responses since the last beat or speaker tag to determine who is speaking. Victoria Holt was terrible about that. She would have two pages of dialog without a single speaker tag or beat, and invariably, I'd get lost at some point and have to resort to counting speeches to figure out who said what. Since the word "said" isn't supposed to show up much, the only thing the reader notices is the character's name or pronoun. At least, that's the reasoning.

Anna and Sheila - that's a point. Hadn't thought of that.

As I say, I tend to find it doesn't much work for me. I think because I find a run of 'he said/she said' very boring, I tend to always notice when said is used, rather than something else. Especially when I'm reading novels, for some reason.

LabRat

*reads Wendy's comment*

*opens fic folders and looks at fics*

*particularly stares at very long (non L&C) fic which should be posted any day now*

*dies*

AnnaBtG.

TWO PAGES!!! HAH!! I have beta read for some really good plotters (note I didn't say writers ) that have given me several pages of this and I always got lost. In small doses it's fine, but a whole scene? Forget about it!!!

James