Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Time to reorganise the Archive?

I entirely agree that it is and should remain an author's choice to put their story on the Archive. However, the amount or lack of feedback received from archived stories is completely irrelevant to my own reasoning as to why I submit stories.

I send my stories to the Archive - and Annesplace - because:

• a lot of people prefer to read stories in one piece, and for them the Archive is better.
• there are, after all, many readers who never come to the message boards - and we'll never know how many there are of those, since most of them are lurkers. However, every so often I'll get an email from someone I've never heard of before who's just read one of my stories on the Archive, and that's a lovely experience.
• I like to think of the Archive as the place to find my - or other authors' - 'collected works', so to speak. It's like going to a really, really good library and finding everything your favourite author has ever written, all there in one place. You can find their latest work on the message boards, but what if you want to see what they wrote earlier?
• and sometimes - as you said yourself, Carol - the Archive version may well be the truly 'final' version, in that changes may have been made between the version originally posted on the boards and the version uploaded. So archiving can offer an opportunity to make revisions, and readers can be directed there to see the changes.

Anyway, for all those reasons, I hope people will continue to choose to send their stories to the Archive. It's so handy to have it as a genuine one-stop-shop for Lois and Clark fanfic, unlike in some other fandoms where readers have to search around in several different archives and websites to find what's out there. We have a unique and wonderful resource, and we should treasure it.


Wendy

Stories out being GE'd don't really figure in the mix because they have been submitted to the Archive. It's the stories which haven't been that I'm focusing on. As EIC of the Archive, I'm aware of which stories have been submitted but not yet uploaded because they are still in the system and so these have already been factored into the count of submitted stories and can be ignored.

Nor do I think the quiet year the Archive has had this year has anything to do with authors editing and tweaking their stories before submitting them. Authors have always done this. They did it in 2004. They did it in 2003. And it had no impact on the number of submissions we received across the year in 2003 and 2004. It's only been this year that we've been so quiet. So the fact that authors tweaking isn't a new phenomenum would tend to make me think this isn't part of the problem.

Just so that it's clear, I'm not at all advocating telling authors they have to submit their story to the Archive. It seems such an obvious truth to me that this is entirely the decision of an author.

LabRat

Every story that I write is in hopes of getting it ready for the Archive. The process is a long time, but in the end that's one of my goals.

I also have to agree with ccmalo though. When I don't receive a lot of feedback on something I'm currently working on and posting, I tend to take longer to get it completed and ready for upload to the Archive.

just wanted to make it very clear that I'm an avid supporter of the Archive as a final place for "Lois and Clark" stories.

In fact, I'm much more likely to read longer fics on the archive than on the mbs because they have usually been tweaked that final time by the author, as Wendy says, and well, also because I like to have the whole story to read either all at once or at my own pace.

I do think that there are a variety of reasons to explain why not all mbs fic make it to the archive. Right now, one of those reasons may simply be that it's summer Re-editing a fic is an indoor sport, (chore? <g>) for dark rainy evenings.

c

I am not in favor of the automatic upload, at all.

However, I have to admit, I have been sitting on a story that I 'completed' back in 2000. Once I 'finished' it, I wasn't satisfied with it. I've been futzing with it since, but I put sooo much effort into it originally, that I just sort of got burned out on it and so the rewriting of it has been like snow in May, sparse and pathetic.

I'm hoping that with this new K-Factor activity from my Muse that s/he/it will be more amendable to helping me out with the rewrite of '7 days of Superman'.

James

Hi,

I'd have to say that I'm not in favour of an automatic update to the archive.

However, I do feel that perhaps a post on the final fdk section of a story on the MBs, reminding a writer that the archive does exist and that many people prefer to read once a story is completed, is a good idea.

I also think that our fanfic archive is special because of the GE system and would be against seeing that disappear.

To tell the truth, I don't think that the lack of stories being submitted to the archive has much to do with writers being unaware that the archive exits, but more that there are fewer stories being written. This might be for a number of reasons. I know that I have less computer time than I did when I first started writing L&C fics.

Perhaps the time has come for the archive to only be updated every second week. Though if those missing stories are submitted, then the problem could disappear.

Just my two pence worth.
Yours Jenni

Okay, let's recap

I think we're all agreed that automatic uploading is out. Which I'm neither surprised at nor disappointed by. I never liked it as an option when I've seen it operating in other fandoms and beyond that I just don't think it works for FoLCdom, with its added editing considerations.

Email nags don't seem to be popular, but gentle reminders in a story's fdk thread seems to work for most of you - appropriately worded, of course, so that no one gets the mistaken idea they're being ordered to submit their story to the Archive if they don't want to.

So, that's the option I'll probably adopt in future. Time can only tell whether it will help the problem.

I do feel that such reminders would sound less like a nag if they were included as part of a general post of fdk on a story, rather than an official EIC post. So, since I wouldn't have the free time right now to provide fdk with such a post on every story, anyone reading a story who wants to remind the author the Archive will be delighted to have it, with their fdk, feel free!

If no one else does it on a particular story, I'll post one myself with the final segment.

Regarding the problem itself, I remain unconvinced that there's been a significant drop in stories being written to account for the drop in submissions. I have no evidence for this <G>, other than an eyeball perspective of the mbs. But - other than a short period a couple of months back when the fanfic folder was very quiet (probably due to it having been the summer vacation season, a dip we get every year, not just this one) - I haven't noticed the fanfic folder being any less busy than last year.

Yes, we've lost quite a few of our older writers, many of whom, for varying reasons, have been producing less than they used to a few years back. But we've had plenty of new authors replacing them, far as I can tell - with my deeply unscientific eyeball.

And the problem with switching to uploading the Archive every second week rather than every week, or every three weeks or whatever is that...it doesn't solve the problem. Because the submissions aren't coming in in a regular enough pattern to maintain any kind of regular upload, no matter what weekly pattern you use. That's precisely the dilemma we're facing and why it's a problem I'd like to solve.

Instead, what's happening is I'll go for, quite literally, weeks or months, without a single submission coming in. Then we'll hit a very short period where we get a few in. Then total zip for another long period. This week was a 'busy' period. I've had 7 submissions in this week - probably partly as a result of this thread reminding some authors they have stories pending. But before that? There's been a drought for quite a while. Perhaps the odd story coming in, but mostly nothing at all. Which is why we're down to just two or one stories being uploaded per week as I eke out our meagre supply to make it last.

It's those long periods of drought that we somehow have to fill in. We need a steady supply of submissions coming in at regular intervals, rather than in irregular bursts. And that should be possible with the numbers of stories being posted to the mbs, just as it's been the way of things in previous years.

Of course, it's possible that even if we don't solve this problem and things continue as they have done all year, then we'll continue to roll on, just making an upload by the skin of our teeth and we won't miss a week. As I said earlier in this thread, it has been the case that every single time I've thought we were heading for no upload one week, that's when I get in a story or two that just tides us over for a couple of weeks.

But it would be nicer if we could figure out why this year has been different from the submission pattern of previous years and figure out a way to circumvent it. For curiosity's sake, if nothing else. <G>

Thanks, everyone, for your input and suggestions. All appreciated.

LabRat

As an author whose been basically out of the loop for over two years now...

I too would be able to completely rebuild my personal fic folder off the archive after a hard drive crash just over two years ago [partially what precipitated my absence]. I do have two fics out there that I need to send to my absolutely favorite Rat of all times *stops to wonder if Nan's Matilda is related to Labby at all*. I haven't made it to the archive in eons or the boards much either for that matter, but I love knowing that one day, when my life slows down, and I don't have three kids under age four crawling all over me day and night, that the archive will be there for me to play 'catch up' on.

I'm also grateful that these boards, unlike some others I'm part of, don't delete threads after a few days [those aren't fic boards though] as the two fics I need to send to Labby were lost in said crash and will have to be rebuilt from here.

Hmmm - sounds like something I need to get to in the next week or so and get it all to Labby...

That's the new plan - off to pay bills [urg!] and reward myself by BRing a fic that's been in my inbox for WEEKS and then either write or assemble those fics...

Schoolwork? What schoolwork? *closes eyes* I don't see any schoolwork...
Carol

FDK thread reminder posts sound like a good plan, and I think, in a way, it'd be even better if they came from people not officially associated with the archive. Great idea!

As for number of stories, though... I just went through the eligibility lists from the last five Kerth Awards. (Thank you, Wayback Machine ! Also thanks to Notespad's line counting feature. )

In 2004, there were 215 eligible stories and 13 new authors. (That's this year's awards, since the 2005 ceremony covers the 2004 eligibles.)

In 2003, there were 293 stories and 23 new authors.

In 2002, there were 302 stories and 46 new authors.

In 2001, there were 256 stories and 44 new authors.

In 2000, there were 246 stories and 45 new authors.

The 2000 Kerths page doesn't have a list of stories or new authors eligible from 1999, but it does mention that the story total was over 300.

Also, out of curiousity, I gave the archive's URL to the wayback machine. Their last caching was Oct 31, 2004. Interestingly (I had to double check this because of my dyslexia) there were 2468 stories then, while there are now 2648. I guess it would be more accurate, though, to use the September 24 caching (which is the closest to a year ago, since it lists the September 19 archive upload). At that time, there were 2444. There's obviously some overlap, but at least it's a reasonable estimate. So, in the last 50 weeks, there have been 204 new stories added to the archive.

I think it's safe to say that there has been a decline in stories, and definitely a decline in new authors. How much of the difference it accounts for, though... That's harder to say.

Moving on... I'm not sure I see what you're saying about submissions patterns. The way I understand it is this:

You're currently taking submissions as they come in, having them edited, and then parcelling them out from week to week so that there's always at least something to upload. But you're having trouble even with that because there have been large periods with no submissions. You get sporadic bursts of submissions and you have to spread them out as best you can, even if that means spreading them thinly. So, wouldn't reducing the frequency of updates help you spread the stories out better? Or is the problem that you don't want to have to hold stories in the upload queue too long?

In any case, if 1/3 of the completed stories posted on the MBs aren't making it to the archives, maybe it's time to start sending out another batch of "we noticed you finished this story but haven't submitted it yet..." emails? If so, do you need volunteers to help do so? Or would people find that nagging too intrusive or something?

Not really sure what else to suggest. Hopefully, the FDK thread campaign will help...

Paul

Exactly, Paul. I feel guilty enough holding on to them for as long as I have to right now and would really like to be uploading them faster than we are. Our GEs are fast enough that, techically, most stories would be uploaded within a week or two of being submitted. But that, of course, would mean that we would probably have months at a time with no Archive upload, until a new submission came in and was edited and ready to upload.

I've never actually sent out this kind of nagging email, Paul. It was just one of the suggestions I made in this thread, that perhaps it was time to start. I have always felt that this would be intrusive though, which is why it's not something I've already adopted. The response on this thread was lukewarm to it, too, so it seems it's not a popular option.

I just can't get away from the notion that a nagging email is different from a nagging post. Like cold calling. <g> It seems more invasive somehow to target someone's mailbox.

I have, in the past, posted this kind of nag here on the mbs. But, as I say, it's no longterm solution. It simply nets an instant response of two or three stories from authors who've been reminded into sending them in, and then the situation very quickly settles into the status quo again of no submissions.

I could continue to do that, but I do feel that if I did it on a regular basis, it would very quickly be ignored as something routine and probably not even read after a few months. There's only so many ways you can say, "Give us your fanfic, you stingy gits" <G>. So the same post repeatedly posted would quickly blend into the background and become invisible, I think.

The posting in the fdk folders option might actually work out. Certainly it would get the knowledge that there is an Archive to send stories to out to all authors posting on the mbs, without exception. So that has to be a boon, right there.

Thanks for collating those figures. Very interesting.

LabRat

Okay, not wanting to hold stories back too long... That's understandable. I mean, I wouldn't mind, as an author, but I can see not wanting to do it to people in general.

As for the nagging email... What about that message I got from you back in December, explaining that the index crew had turned up a bunch of old stories which had never been archived, and would I care to submit a copy of mine?

I think we're agreed that the FDK post is a good idea. Hopefully, it'll improve things in the future.

Still, email or otherwise, might it be a good idea to remind people of stories they may have forgotten? 1 story in 3 is a lot more than I expected, even if you count throwaway gags and such.

Or maybe those authors currently reading this thread will be good enough to go back through the index and see for themselves what they may have missed. Can't hurt to look and give those dusty old things a second chance...

Paul

Ah, that was a one off. The Index Crew had sent me a list of stories they had noted on their records. The point of that one was that they were stories which had only been posted on Zoomway's old mbs, many years before. Zoomway had closed down those mbs, so the stories were no longer available anywhere. The Index Crew felt that perhaps authors would like the opportunity to submit them to the Archive - if they still had a copy - so that they wouldn't be lost entirely.

So in that case it wasn't a case of nagging authors to submit stories they hadn't submitted. But to offer authors somewhere to host the stories that had been lost, if they wanted/needed one.


LabRat

Well, the reason I haven't been writing any fanfic lately is because I joined a writers' critique group that meets once a week, so I'm writing original stuff. It's been a great learning experience so far.

Oh, it's inevitable along the way, that many writers will stop writing, for various reasons.

Course, it's the writers who are still writing - and posting - on the mbs that this is really aimed at. You know who you are.

LabRat

Just on a positive note, a bunch of us have been telling new people on the MBs that the Archive exists and to be sure to visit there. Also when there is a new story we remind new authors to submit the finished story to the Archive.
But I don't know if that is helping. Personally, I just need time to write.

Artemis