Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related FFQ: Legal variety

If a murder is committed in Canada, but all involved are Americans (Metropolians to be exact) including the planning of the murder, where would the murderer(s) be tried?

Could the Metropolis DA or defense attorney request to hold the trial in Metropolis?

gerry

I would expect so.

I think what happens in cases like this is that judicial representatives of the possible jurisdictions debate where the case is to be tried. The defense will argue for whatever they think is most advantageous for them and the DAs and such will argue based on their own needs/wants.

It's more complicated with this international twist, but the governments involved are on friendly terms. There'd probably be something similar, with Canadian authorities talking over the case with the US embassy.

If they did decide to move the case to the US, there would then be a debate on what level the case is to be tried. There's the city of Metropolis. There's the state of New Troy. There's the federal level.

Depending on the particulars of the case, the people involved, who's interested in what, and a number of other factors, the case could end up pretty much anywhere.

Metropolis is a possibility, if the Metropolis DA had some special reason for it and if no one else had any overriding concerns.

Paul

Canada might have some concerns about the possiblity of the death penalty, from what I hear.

I hestitate here, but I think the murderers would be charged in Canada and also tried here. (it was a Canadian law that was broken in your scenario) We do have extradition treaties with the U.S. under which either government can request that sentences be served in the accused's home country - this has been a bit of an issue because, as Paul said, Canada does not have the death penalty while some American states do.

c

A criminal trial (at least in Canada) takes place where the crime is committed - regardless of the nationality of the victims/defendants. Thus, if the murder is committed in Canada (in particular, Ontario), the trial would take place here (ETA: uhhh... by here, I obviously mean in Canada ).

However, in your case, there is a second charge - Conspiracy to Commit Murder. And that crime took place in the States. So that charge could be prosecuted in the States.

There is an added bonus (in your case), and that is that the accused are in the States when they get caught. So Canada would be trying to get the defendants to be shipped to Canada. The States would probably be insistent that they want to try their case first. Then they might agree to send the defendant north of the boarder to face the murder charge after their case is finished.

On issues like this, that's not always the case and...

I would agree with Shayne on this point. That is often a huge issue between the US and Canada. And after The People v. Lois Lane we know that New Troy has the death penalty. But in your case, since the accused is in the custody of MPD, it would be hard for Canada to do much about it (hey, we can't even seem to get the US authorities not to kill Canadian citizens )

ML

Should have let ML go first.

c.

Two law students and two former law students are here talking about this, and this is what we've come up with.

The case would start in Canada and the attorneys would almost definitely request a conditional dismissal, which means that the Canadian court would dismiss the case as long as it was refiled in the US. If it was not refiled (there would probably be a time restraint on that) then the Canadian court would revisit the case.

Whether the court would grant the conditional dismissal is another story. That would depend on the individual judge. Some judges may have concerns about the death penalty possibility, but some may not, so you could write the story however would best fit your objective.

If the case was refiled in the US, the court would use New Troy state law (or whatever state the people involved were from) to decide procedural questions (like what evidence is admissable, what the statutes of limitations are, etc) and would use Canadian law to decide substantive questions (like the definition of what degree of murder it is).

Hopefully that helps. You just spawned an hour long dinner conversation for us. *g*

~Anna

ETA after reading ML's response: Whether or not they would request a conditional dismissal would probably depend on whether the attorneys were Americans or Canadians. The Americans would probably request it; the Canadians probably would not. Also keep in mind that the people involved in coming up with this response were all Americans, and we know next to nothing about Canadian law.

Anna, I would disagree with your two law students and two former law students (at least as concerns Canadian law).

If the accused were in Canada, the crown attorney (which is the Canadian equivalent of a DA in the US) would never agree to send them to the States for trial. If the murder took place in Canada, the crown would want to try it in Canada. The only reason it would be tried in the States first (on the conspiracy charge) would be if the accused was in the custody of the MPD.

ML

ETA: After reading Anna's ETA , I'd have to say that I've never heard of such a thing as a conditional withdrawal in Canada. There is such a thing as a 'stay' of the charges which might be somewhat the same (but since a conditional withdrawal is not something we have in Canada, I can't be certain )

Anna, here's a question to take back to your friends. Is there a law in the States which allows the US government to prosecute people for crimes committed outside the US?

I know that in Canada, there is such a law. But it has been used only once in history. And that was in the case of a Canadian who went overseas and made use of child prostitutes (in a country where it was legal). I'm not familiar with the details of the law that allowed that prosecution (since I've never had to deal with it for obvious reasons), but if I recall correctly it is a special law to deal with the problem of worldwide child prostitution.

But I'm interested to know if the US has a law that allows prosecution of American citizens who commit crimes outside the country.

ML

Think about the question from the reverse point of view, maybe. If a foreign national (other than someone serving with an embassy) were to commit a serious crime on American soil, that individual would be charged and tried in the US.

Personal anecdote warning: years ago, In Greece, I met an American who was staying there while his brother (also an American citizen) served a brief term in jail there for a drug offence.
c.

I'm so confused, I'm not sure how I'm going to handle my problem.

I do know one thing: The state of New Troy has repealed its law allowing the death penalty. This happened soon after The People vs. Lois Lane was aired.

I now need to sit back and consider where I'm going to take my story.

If I have any questions, I'll get back to you.

Anna, thank your law student friends for me. Thanks to the rest of you legal experts. I'm impressed.

gerry

ETA: What does ETA stand for?

I was going to ask that too, Gerry! To me, ETA means 'estimated time of arrival' - I'd say, for example, that our ETA at Belfair would be 4pm. (And, of course, I would have been wrong, since we didn't actually find Belfair. ).


Wendy (who spent a lovely evening with Gerry and a couple of other FoLCs on Monday )

ETA means Edited to add...

Not to mention it's actually Bellefair, not Belfair <g>

/me unhijacks the thread

Julie

Unfortunately my friends aren't around at the moment, and as one of the former students I don't really know what the answer is, although I would assume from the context of the rest of the conversation that we had that there is such a law, at least in some states.

They did say that the US usually leaves crimes committed by thier citizens in other countries to the foreign nation to deal with, but since it seemed that it would suit Gerry's story to be able to move the trial, we mostly talked about how that process would go.

The biggest 'if' we came up with was whether or not the Canadian government/judge/attorney/whoever would allow the case to be moved or dismissed, and from what you've said, ML, that seems pretty unlikely.

I'll do that, Gerry, although I'm afraid we've probably confused you more than helped you. *G*

~Anna