Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Kerth Nominating Questions

Have just checked through the category descritpions and also the suggestions about nominating.

1. The suggestion is that we can nominate up to 8 stories per category. Given the smaller number of stories this year, am wondering if the K-Com would suggest we stick with 5 as a max?

2. Are the criteria in the categories on Kerths website what we are to go by? -- have noticed, in catching up, in the K quizzes that a couple of stories that don't fit a particualar catgory descriptors have got included either in that quiz or the recommnedations.

Thanks in advance for answering this (how' s that for optimism:) ) am about to leave town again and so wanted to know before I go.

c

I'm not K-Com but just wanted to comment on Carol's second question: sometimes the question of what stories do or don't fit a category is kind of subjective. For example, the winner in a particular category one year seemed to me not to be at all suited to that category; yet enough people thought it was to get it on the shortlist and vote it into first place. So, you know, my opinion was kind of outvoted there.

I suspect the best bet there is to nominate what you think fits the categories, and then it's up to K-Com to deal with the resulting... whatever.


Wendy

Thanks, Wendy, for replying. Sorry, should have been more specific. I know there's always some subjectivity involved in nominating but this category seems a clear-cut one. The category is "Best Relationship"; here's the website descritpion:

So I would assume any story that doesn't "focus on L & C's relationship" would not be eligible in this cat? Just wanted to clarify.

c.

Yeah, that's about it, Carol But like Wendy says, we try to go with the majority of FOLCs on which stories go where, so there's definitely wiggle-room.

PJ

LOL, Pam - that's not an answer<vbg> Do see the wiggle-room potential is some categories but perhaps not in Best Relationship as described on the website. So still wondering...

oh, btw, what about the number of nominations per cat?

c

Hmm... I see what you mean, Carol. I included Chris Carr's A Match Made in Chicago in the Relationship quiz, and that's actually about Lucy and Dan. That one slipped through, I'm afraid. Shame, because as relationship stories go it's a lovely one.


Wendy (who trusts K-Com to ensure that her nominations, if equally sloppy, translate to sensible arrangements on the ballot )

My assumption has been that the Drama category is intended for stories with strong A plots, and the Relationship category for strong B plots. So I'd be inclined to put A Match Made in Chicago into Relationship for that reason, even though it's not about Lois and Clark themselves. Similarly with stories about relationships with parents or early girl/boyfriends or children, now that the Early Years/Superfutures category is gone.

Just my 2p
Mere

Looks like we really do need a K-Com clarification on "Relationship" then.

c

Just saw this today ... I'm going to send the link to Erin to get her up to speed and we'll discuss it. I have a feeling I know how Erin will answer both of your questions, Carol, but I want to check with her first, especially on the nomination numbers.

Kathy

Speaking as someone who thinks that most of her stories are dramas but who hates and avoids A plots like the plague, I've always disputed this. <g>

Here's the dictionary definition (from Chambers), leaving out the definitions pertinent to the stage: a series of absorbing, exciting, tense or tragic, etc events

I reckon a story can be all of those things without having a strong A plot. It's more likely that the story will have a balance of A and B plots. The tensions brought about by facing a difficult 'action' situation whilst also dealing with challenging relationship issues are what, IMO, makes a good drama. Overdone, of course, it slips into melodrama <g>.

Yvonne

Yes, that's the dictionary definition. The Kerth category definition, though, contains the term "A-plot" - granted, there's weasel room in the "not always".

If tense relationship stories counted as Drama, there wouldn't be any need for a Relationship category. IMHO, of course.

Mere

P.S. Plenty of A-plot in Purity and Misery, at least!

OK, subject discussed, and answers agreed upon.

1) The nomination form will contain 8 slots per category, as it did last year. That doesn't mean that you have to fill every slot -- we actually expect most people won't. But we see no reason to limit people to 5 noms/category, even with the lower number of eligible stories. Tha's why we trimmed the category list.

2) As for the descriptions, obviously this is a case where we can't anticipate every plotline. So we say, please use your own judgement. If you want to nominate a story about Lucy and Dan (or Martha and Jonathan, or Perry and Alice, or ...) in the Relationship category, go for it! I wouldn't take the category description as 100% firm in this case, as it's one we couldn't really anticipate.

Hope that helps!

Kathy
Kerth Committee Member

Yvonne, I really hate to be the one to break this to you ( ) . . . but just because an A-plot is tightly intertwined with the B-plot does not mean it isn't there.

Thanks, Kathy for your reply. It was Chris's story I was thinking of - a wonderful (and clever) piece and I did want to include it in my nominations in that category.

Sad though that there's no category just for a Lois and Clark relationship fic.

c.

Yeah, Rivka. :rolleyes: I guess it's that word 'strong' that scares me - don't think I've ever written a strong A plot in my entire life .

I've just checked the Kerth definition, and actually, it doesn't say anything about strong A plots, so I'm happy :

Yvonne

Uh . . . That sure sounds like "strong A-plot" to me.

And, Yvonne, so do your stories. I think this may be one of those self-assessment blindness things.

Yeah, I think I'm with Yvonne on this one. I'm not sure what the inclusion or absence of an A-plot has to do with a story being considered a Drama.

IMHO, if a story was written in which Lois contracted a terminal disease and Clark was taking care of her while Bernie Klein struggled (off stage) to find a cure, I'd consider this both a Drama and a Relationship story. As far as I can see, it doesn't have an A-plot, especially if the cure-finding is kept off scene. But it would be what I would consider a highly dramatic premise.

I suppose it comes down to how we define A-plot. It was always my understanding that in this fandom, A-plot was defined as any action external to the central relationship on which the story hangs. Things involving criminals, the Daily Planet, investigations, etc. Some sort of action or activity that is not centered on the interaction between two characters (usually Lois and Clark). The A-plot might drive interaction, but it does not evolve from it, at least not initially. A story doesn't have to include an A-plot or it could be almost 100% A-plot.

Again IMHO, it's not the inclusion of A-plot that makes something a drama. You could have an A-plot (the Prankster breaks out of jail) that can be used to write a very funny story (not a drama) or a very intense, angsty dramatic story. And the reverse is true. You could have a story in which Lois and Clark are sitting in Lois's living room talking, no A-plot whatsoever, and it could be very funny (not a drama) or very intense, angsty and dramatic. Nothing exiting happening per se, but still a drama based on the tone and subject of their conversation.

Same thing applies to the relationship category. It was my understanding that a relationship story simply has to contain a relationship, and it can be a funny story or a dramatic story. Too, it could contain an A-plot or not. As long as it contains a substantial focus on a relationship, it qualifies.

It's not what's in the story, it's the tone of the story that makes it a drama. And it's not the tone of the story that makes it a relationship story but rather the content. At least, that's what I'd interpreted the Drama and Relationship categories to mean. There is significant crossover between the two - they are not mutually exclusive.

I can understand the confusion. I suggest for next year that there be a split in the Drama category - Drama/A-Plot and Drama/Relationship if people feel strongly about there needing to be an A-plot in the story in order for it to be eligible for the Best Dramatic category.

Lynn

Not a bad suggestion, Lynn, just please keep in mind that it will depend mostly on whether there are enough stories with a central a-plot to support splitting the category.

One of the reasons that we tweaked the definition of Drama in the first place (last year) was that there seem to be fewer and fewer stories where the a-plot (the chasing the bad guys thing) is the main driving force of the story. Thus, we chose to open the category up slightly to include the types of stories you describe -- where there is a serious, suspenseful situation, but the threat may not always be from an outside source.

I think most of us lament the fact that fewer people attempt a fully fleshed out a-plot -- I know those of us on the KCom certainly do. And we also would all personally love to reward those writers who take on this difficult task and produce an outstanding story. What it comes down to then, really, is whether the Kerths should be a "leader" or a "follower".

On the KCom, we've always taken the viewpoint that the only "charge" the Kerths have is to represent the stories that have been released in the previous year. That's one reason we sometimes have to make changes to categories kind of late in the game (like we did this year). We have to wait until near the end of each calendar year to figure out what kinds of stories have been released, in what numbers, and determine what themes have been the most prevelent.

Others have suggested over the years, however, that the Kerths should be more proactive -- that the KCom should take on the responsibility of encouraging certain types of stories. For example, goes the thinking, if the Kerths were to include categories where there are fewer eligible stories, more people would attempt to write stories to fit in those categories, in hopes of having a better shot at an award.

Those of us on the committee see advantages to this approach, to be certain, but we ultimately think that it would be presumptuous of us, as a committee, to tell the fandom what kinds of stories are "preferable". Instead, we just try our best to keep an eye on trends that are created by the fandom in general, and let the readers and writers decide which stories (or types of stories) are the most popular.

Kathy

I can see the dilemma, Kathy. I can't speak for any other writers, but I've never written a story with the thought of having it fit in a specific Kerth category. I've always just written what story was in my head and then wondered if it would even fit any category. And I honestly don't know if what you are saying would work - encourage people to write a specific story to "go for" a Kerth in that category. It might just work.

You face a tough job, and you guys are doing great!

Lynn

Is it just me, or have there been and increased number of elseworld stories last year? I love them, but there are so many some will have to fit into other categories, like drama, relationship, etc. The one category I miss this year is "Best Series". You have a bunch of contenders there.

Artemis
Edit: I see Best Series was discussed in another thread. I posted this before I read that. My solution as been to break apart the series (plural) and nominate them as individual stories in separate categories so they don't compete against each other. But again the call for drama, relationship, or best supporting character is a very subjective call.
O.K. I've just read the discussion about lumping stories of a series together and I'm a little bit more informed. I'm going to hang with my original plan and see how it flies.