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#142303 11/27/03 04:32 AM
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Nan Offline OP
Kerth
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Kerth
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This may not seem relevant, but I assure you it *is* fic related. In the song, "The Twelve Days of Christmas", which is the twelfth day? I know what I have always believed, but since what I believe and what others perceive may differ, I thought I should ask for opinions, just to be sure.

Nan


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Did some looking around on Google, Nan.

The first site I went to, which confirms my use of 'Twelve Drummers Drumming', also has an interesting explanation of the origins of the song. The site is here: it explains the Catholic folk mythology involved.

This site takes some issue with the previous one in relation to the origins, but also references twelve drummers.

This site also references twelve drummers.

Now, this site mixes up the order of the last few items, so we have ten drummers drumming and twelve lords a-leaping. But a note at the bottom of the page acknowledges that it's not the original order. Is this the variation you've seen?

Here\'s another one which mixes it up completely - we have twelve lords a-leaping and nine drummers drumming! eek

But the vast majority of the sites I've looked at - and I haven't listed a fraction of them here - go with the standard version in which Day 12 is the drummers.

Oh, and for a bit of humour, try this:
Quote
On the twelfth day of Christmas my human gave to me:
Twelve bags of catnip!
eleven tarter Pounce treats,
ten ornaments hanging,
nine wads of Kleenex,
eight peacock feathers,
seven stolen Q-tips,
six feathered balls,
five MILK JUG RINGS!
four munchy house plants,
three running faucets,
two fuzzy mousies,
and a hamste-e-er in a plastic ball!!
http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/cat12days.html

and this one made me howl:
Quote
The Politically Correct Twelve Days of Christmas

On the 12th day of the Eurocentrically imposed midwinter festival, my Significant Other in a consenting adult relationship gave to me:

TWELVE males reclaiming their inner warrior through ritual drumming,

ELEVEN pipers piping (plus the 18-member pit orchestra made up of members in good standing of the Musicians Equity Union as called for in their union contract even though they will not be asked to play a note),

TEN melanin deprived testosterone-poisoned scions of the patriarchal ruling class system leaping,

NINE persons engaged in rhythmic self-expression,

EIGHT economically disadvantaged female persons stealing milk-products from enslaved Bovine-Americans,

SEVEN endangered swans swimming on federally protected wetlands,

SIX enslaved Fowl-Americans producing stolen non-human animal products,

FIVE golden symbols of culturally sanctioned enforced domestic incarceration,

(NOTE: after members of the Animal Liberation Front threatened to throw red paint at my computer, the calling birds, French hens and partridge have been reintroduced to their native habitat. To avoid further Animal-American enslavement, the remaining gift package has been revised.)

FOUR hours of recorded whale songs

THREE deconstructionist poets

TWO Sierra Club calendars printed on recycled processed tree carcasses and...

ONE Spotted Owl activist chained to an old-growth pear tree.
http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/pc12days.html

rotflol rotflol


Wendy smile


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Oh... my sides are aching!

ROTFLMAO! laugh


Death: Easy, Bill. You'll give yourself a heart attack and ruin my vacation.

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LOL, Wendy, this is the kind of thing you print and save. laugh laugh rotflol

Julie


Mulder: Imagine if you could come back and take out five people who had caused you to suffer. Who would they be?
Scully: I only get five?
Mulder: I remembered your birthday this year, didn't I, Scully?

(The X-Files)
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Nan Offline OP
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Well, I now have two opinions, that it's the 5th of January, or the 6th of January. Can anyone give me another vote? <g> This is beginning to be like the time a friend of mine had to use jumper cables on my car. She didn't know if the connection was positive to negative or positive to positive, so she and her friends voted, and naturally got it wrong ...

I'd really like to know, because I have a somewhat unstandard entry into the Christmas carol challenge, based on the twelve days of Christmas, but I need to get the days right.

Nan


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Well, according to the standard Advent Calendar, the first day of Christmas is December 25th. That would make the 12th day January 5th. January 5th is the last day of the Christmas season before the Epiphany on January 6th and the beginning of Ordinary Time again on the 7th until the season of Lent.

"The day before Epiphany is the twelfth day of Christmas, and is sometimes called Twelfth Night, an occasion for feasting in some cultures. In some cultures, the baking of a special King's Cake is part of the festivities of Epiphany (a King's Cake is part of the observance of Mardi Gras in French Catholic culture of the Southern USA)."

I was looking through the Christian Resource Institute and found that last tidbit interesting. http://www.cresourcei.org/cyepiph.html

Ciao!
JD

Edit: Now looking at Wendy's...I would almost say take your pick, Nan, because I've seen so many sites that argue for one or the other. Plus I'm still hung up over the fact that we call January 5th "The Twelfth Night," but if you want to get nit-picky, January 6th is indeed the 12th Day after Christmas. Anyway, my vote is still for January 5th, but to each his own here. wink


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Checking Google again, Nan, and came up with this:
Quote
Lovers of carols and Christmas parties know that this season has 12 days, packed with golden rings, calling birds and various kinds of gentry, musicians and domestic workers. December 25 is Christmas - and 25 minus 12 does equal 13. Do the math and you will see why shopping malls, newspapers, television networks, and other cultural fortresses annually deliver some kind of "Twelve Days of Christmas" blitz, beginning on December 13.

Problem is that for centuries church calendars in the East and the West have agreed that there are twelve days of Christmas and they begin on Christmas Day and end on January 6.

The twelve days of Christmas end with the Feast of Epiphany also called "The Adoration of the Magi" or "The Manifestation of God." Celebrated on January 6, it is known as the day of the Three Kings (or wise men/magi): Caspar, Melchior and Balthasar. According to an old legend based on a Bible story, these three kings saw, on the night when Christ was born, a bright star, followed it to Bethlehem and found there the Christchild and presented it with gold, frankincense and myrrh.

January 6, the last day of Christmas, comes with its own traditions, rituals and symbols. Carolers are going from house to house; in many homes the Christmas tree is taken down and in some areas is burnt in a big bonfire. For the children this is an especially joyous occasion because, associated with taking down the tree goes the "plündern" (raiding) of the tree. The sweets, chocolate ornaments wrapped in foil or cookies, which have replaced the sugar plums, are the raiders' rewards.

The history of Christmas, (the festival of the nativity of Jesus Christ,) is intertwined with that of the Epiphany. The commemoration of the Baptism (also called the Day of Lights, i.e. the Illumination of Jesus) was also known as the birthday of Jesus, because he was believed to have been born then of the Virgin or reborn in baptism. In some records Christmas and Epiphany were referred to as the first and second nativity; the second being Christ's manifestation to the world.

In the fourth century, December 25 was finally adopted by the Western Christian Church as the date of the Feast of Christ's birth. It is believed that this change in date gave rise to the tradition of the "12 Days of Christmas." While the Western Christian Church celebrates December 25th, the Eastern Christian Church to this day recognizes January 6 as the celebration of the nativity. January 6 was also kept as the physical birthday in Bethlehem. In the Teutonic west, Epiphany became the Festival of the Three Kings (i.e. the Magi), or simply Twelfth day.
from this site . It looks reasonably authoritative, if you scroll down and look at the author and further resources.

Several other sites, including online sermons and other religious resources, also refer to Epiphany, 6th January, as the twelfth day. Yet I see your confusion, Nan, because there are also a couple of sites in amongst these which claim that it's the 5th.

Here's an online dictionary which also claims that it's the 6th: Hyperdictionary.com .

Another site claims that 5th January is Twelfth Night and the 6th is Twelfth Day after Christmas.

Edit: Just saw Jen's post. Yes, that Christian Resource Centre cropped up on my search too, but it seemed to be the only semi-authoritative site arguing for the 5th. The site I quoted first, plus a number of sermons sites, go for the 6th. [end of edit]

Okay, so it looks to me as if there's more support for the 6th, but if you went with the 5th you could probably still argue it. wink


Wendy smile


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Nan Offline OP
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Okay, the 6th it is for the purposes of the fic. The reason I needed to know is that this story happens during the twelve days after Christmas and I wanted the title to correctly name the date in the title. It isn't absolutely critical, but it would be nice to get it right.

Thanks, everyone. I'll be posting my own Christmas Challenge story in a few days. Don't expect the standard waffy Christmas tale, though, although there will be A-Plot, B-Plot, humor, drama, and my traditional happy ending. Not to mention somebody getting a well-deserved come-uppance.

Now, I'm off to get ready for a Thanksgiving dinner at a restaurant. Washing dishes was never my idea of a grand finale for Thanksgiving Day, anyhow. laugh

Nan


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