Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Need someone who speaks Chinese

I have another question. If Clark were to rescue someone but that person didn’t know about Superman, they might think he was an angel. If that person were Chinese, would they think he was an angel or would he possibly think Clark was something else?

Either way, what might they call Clark? I guess I’m looking for how to say ‘an angel’ or whatever else might come from their traditions in Chinese (not using Chinese characters, of course - since I couldn’t put Chinese characters in my story )

Thanks

ML

well, i don't speak any chinese dialects, but i thought it might be helpful to ask... where in china? is this person speaking mandarin? cantonese? something else? i don't remember how many dialects there are, offhand, but i do remember that the number i heard was 3 digits. i think it was in the 400's, actually, but i'm not certain. iirc, most people will speak mandarin or cantonese along with their local dialect, but, when startled, i can only assume they'd talk in their native dialect.

as for lore, hopefully someone will know better than i. i know there are various spirits in japanese mythology (like kitsune, helpful but mischevious fox spirits), but i'm not sure about china. only thing i can suggest offhand is a dragon in human form. the details of chinese dragon lore vary from place to place, i think, but i've heard of elemental (earth, air, fire, water) dragons taking human form. perhaps a dragon of the air/wind? helpful, powerful, able to fly...

Paul

I'm not fussy, Paul. I'll determine what dialect the individual speaks based on what information I can get. Heck, I'll even change the location to Japan if that is the information I can get

ML

Which Chinese dialect?

Angel is pronounced
tyan shr which kinda means "heaven messenger"
Tyan shen which means "heaven spirit"
Tyan shr is used primarily by Protestants
Tyan shen by Roman Catholics.

I'm not positive that is how it is spelled.
I'm not positive with that.

I know though:
Tenshi is "angel" in Japanese.
English - the angels
Majiku no Tenshi - Angel of Magic.
Mizu no Tenshi - Angel of Water.
Tsuki no Tenshi - Angel of the Moon.
Sutaa no Tenshi - Angel of the Stars.

I guess it would depend on how he/she was saved.

I hope I'm somewhat right.
Please anyone correct me?

About the dragon/human thing. Neato!

Lung/Chinese Dragon is a symbol of HEROISM, power, valiancy....positive stuff..overcomes the negitive. Positive thoughts, energy, unlike the, for example, European view. In their stories...so many!...dragons can be vain. If their wisdom/advice is not heeded you're in trouble.

I know it has nothing to do with the subject, but according to the Chinese horoscope, Clark's sign is (Fire) Horse.

The funny thing being that Horse's counterpart sign is Gemini, a dual personna sign...just like Clark/ Superman.

Okay, back to the subject...sort of, there are more than 3000 dialects in China and most of them are really far from the Mandarin, which usually is the chinese dialect taught in chinese language courses...and the most spread one in China (with 387 million speakers).

Mandarin is part of Northern China's dialects, then comes: Jiangsu-Zhejiang (46 millions speakers), Hunan (26 millions), Jiangsi (13millions), Hakka (20 millions), Northern Min (7millions), Southern Min (15 millions) and Cantonese (27millions)...these are approximative figures.

In Oriental art. Dragons represent celestial and terrestrial power, wisdom and strength.

If you want your fic to take place during Chinese New Years festivities: the dragon in traditional Chinese New Year's Day parades is believed to repel evil spirits that could spoil the new year...The five-clawed dragon stands as the Chinese Imperial emblem, the four-clawed being the common dragon and three claws dragons are the one you found in japanese Mythology (at least that's what I've been told during my first trip to Asia). I know a lot of emperors (yellow) dresses show embroideries of a dragon, also seen as the most powerful protection sign...it symbolize the emperor whose wisdom and divine power assured the well-being of his subjects.

In Chinese mythology there are Nine Major types of dragon. Lung er...'Horned Dragon', is the most powerful and generalized type of Chinese dragon, which can produce rain and is totally deaf... So long for the Superhearing

And Roo, you're right about the shape shifting power: chinese dragons of myth could make themselves as large as the universe or as small as a silkworm...

Carole (sorry for the long reply)

Popping in to cheer!!

Yay!!! ML's writing again!!!

Missy (ducking back out to work on her file(s)

Mandarin is the Main language in China and Taiwain. The Chinese government had made it mandatory that the Chinese people have one base language. My mom for example speaks five diffrent Chinese dialect. I can ask my parents if you need to know but you have to be specific as to your meaning.

Hmmm... first let me add a disclaimer here. My knowledge of Chinese mythology is quite rudimentary. And while I won't say that my Mandarin is bad, it's not great either. So... I'll do the best I can. The numbers behind the chinese word indicate the tones that a Mandarin speaker would use. If you like, you can leave it out. Non-chinese readers won't care about the tones, and Chinese readers should be able to guess the term that you mean based on the context of the story.

The direct translation of angel in Mandarin is tian1 shi3. However, I've never heard it being used in any context other than refering to the angels mentioned in the Bible. Yes, it literally translates as the "messengers of the heaven".

If this Chinese man (or woman if you like, but I'm using the pronoun 'he' henceforth) lives in a major city, like Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou; then he's likely to be pretty familliar with the idea of vistors from other places. That's be his first guess. Then he'll probably just call Clark his "En1 Ren4" (benefector), a term that is applicable even to normal humans.

However, perhaps you'd like this Chinese to be some sort of an illiterate farmer who lives in some obscure corner in China, without modern conveniences, the location of the rescue is likely to be somewhere central or western China. This Chinese will likely think of Clark as some sort of a demigod or supernatural being. Anyhow, you have a few options as to what the farmer thinks Clark is. Clark could be

1) some sort of a god that descended from the heavens at the hour of his need. You'll have to choose gods that traditionally show themselves as young men. In my opinion, this is not a good option to use as I'm assuming that Clark will fervently deny this. In stories, deities have been known to keep quiet, or remain coy with regards to their identities, but never an out front denial.

2) the human reincarnate of a certain deity which is little different from option 1. In option 1, Clark is a deity, but in option 2, Clark's human. There are myths of deities reincarnating as humans because they did something wrong in the heavens and were thus punished, or they were reincarnated as humans because they had a mission to perform. Unless some form of a revelation occurs (by the other deities), this "human" is normally unaware that he/she was a deity originally. When taken at this light, Clark's denial to be a god would make sense to the farmer. "The poor boy is unaware of his identity until his powers manifested suddenly and he managed to save me."

3) some form of an animal spirit. The best animal to use is the fox. The chinese consider it as one of the smartest animals. The farmer will be more fearful/suspicious of Clark if he thinks that Clark is a fox as there are benevolent and evil fox spirits. However, the farmer will never refer to Clark as the "fox spirit" as it's is a degratory term. Trivia: Women who have dubious morals or attract married men thus breaking up marriages are called fox spirits "hu2li2 jing1". Cat Grant may be considered a "hu2li2 jing1". [thanks to Paul for reminding me about the spirits]

4) one of the 4 long2 wang2. Literally translated as "dragon king". They guard the 4 N, S, E and W seas (you can choose the one that's geographically closest to the rescue) and bring wind and rain. If Clark moves at superspeed, he could be seen as generating winds. The farmer would be in awe and perhaps fear. This is because while dragons are lucky creatures, dragon kings report directly to the King of the Gods, and they aren't hostile, but they aren't exactly friendly either, to humans. [thanks to Carole for talking about the dragon kings]

In all of these 4 scenarios, the farmer will call Clark "Da4 Xian1" (oh great heavenly being). Yes, even for fox spirits, and deities reincarnated into humans.

It's pretty safe to use Mandarin, you'll be able to find people who understand this particular dialect everywhere, it being the official dialect and all. However, for the sake of authenticity, you may want to get the character to speak in his local dialect. I can't help you here, as the only other dialect that I can speak is Cantonese, which is spoken in the Guangdong Province which is at the southern part of China(and Hong Kong of course).

Whew, a very long post. I hope that at least some of the information here is of use to you. Good luck with your story.


metwin1

Wow! What a lot of really great information! When I posted my question, I thought that no one was going to be able to help me. You guys are the best.

Yes but if you have a word like Mah. It would mean Mom, Mother, Horse, or argue. Depending on the tone of voice and the number of times you repeat. You wouldn't want to call your mother a horse would you ?

MA MA = Mother (this tone is of voice is said like as if you dropped something on your toe )
MA = Mom
Ma? = Horse
May (with heavy tone) = argues

My dad says that Angel in Chinese is pronounced "Tan S-eu-z" or "Tan Sz". If you don't want to get too complicated.

Okay, it's a little hard for me to get it down in writing as to how the 4 tones (numbers behind those words) will sound like. But since Henderson does not speak Mandarin, he won't be saying "Da Xian" with the correct tones anyway. so it probably won't matter.

Da is pronounced "da". It rhymes with Pa, as in papa.

For xian, say "sea-an" quickly, joining both words together.
'sea', as in the blue 'sea', and 'an' as in 'an' apple

Long2 translates directly as 'dragon' and wang2 as 'king'. so what I meant in "4 long2 wang2" is that there are 4 dragon kings. there aren't singular and plural inflexion changes in chinese, so it's long2 wang2, whether in singular or plural.

For 'long', it is pronounced 'long'. But say the "o" sound as you would when you see the "o" in the context of the alphabet l-m-n-O-p, rather then the "oar" sound.
for "wang", the "a" is pronounced as in "mAdonna" rather than "hAre"
I hope this helps.

It makes no difference if you Caps the first letter of the chinese word or not. Hence Long2 and long2 is pronounced the same way. So, just choose your preference, whether to caps or not.

Are you transliterating the Mandarin for "angel" or are you spelling it out? Cos if it's Mandarin, I'm positive it's Tian1 Shi3 in hanyu pinyin. Or perhaps you are simply transliterating it?


metwin1

Thanks, Kitty and Metwin1. That's great. I think I might even have a use for angel so having the pronounciation of that is also helpful.

ML

Just wanted to refine the transliteration for metwin1.

Actually, when you talk about all 4 dragon kings at the same time, you say "si hai long wang" (the Dragon Kings of the Four Seas".

For "si" (four), I don't know of any English word that is really close to what is sounds like. The closest transliteration I can think of sounds something like "sze".

For "hai"(sea), that's relatively easy. Think Shanghai.

For "long" (dragon), you pronounce the letter O as you would for the word "own".

for "wang" (king), say the letter "a" like you would for "Ave Maria".

If you wish to refer to a specific dragon king though, you substitute the word "si" (four), for any of the 4 directions you want.

East: Dong (as like "long" pronounce the "o" like "own")
South: Nan (like "wang", "a" is pronounced like "ave maria")
West: Xi (say "see", as in "see with your eyes")
North: Bei (say "Bay", as in "Thunder Bay")

For example, the Dragon King of the Eastern Sea would be "Dong Hai Long Wang".

Somehow I think that's too much information for what is probably a rather small section in your story.

--meclone2--

I shall assume that you already know what hanyu pinyin is. So "angel" in hanyu pinyin is "tian shi", literally Heaven's messenger.

tian(heaven or sky): say the 2 words "tee" and "an" very quickly. "tee" as in "tee off" and "an" as in "an apple".

shi(messenger): Tricky. There are no English words that come close to how it is said. But if you think of the words "Chateau" and "Charmaine", pronounce the first 2 letters without entering into the vowel "a", and you should get a pretty accurate idea of how it sounds like.

There we go.

--meclone2--

Oh, and ML? The transliterations done by my sister and I are in Mandarin. A practical reason for this is that we are more familiar with Mandarin and that it has the status of a language. Cantonese has the status of a dialect. So I hope that's okay.

metwin1 suggested that:
Depending on the context, my suggestion is to stick to Mandarin. If you are writing about an actual rescue, and yes, it's a good idea to use a local dialect. But if you are writing about a description of the event by a third party (e.g, Henderson telling the story to Clark), then Mandarin is a better idea, because I assume that Henderson's story source would have come from Chinese newspapers, news, etc. The official media in China uses Mandarin, so all descriptions of "oh great heavenly being", or "dragon king" or "great benefactor", etc, would of course, be in Mandarin.

--meclone2--

Thanks everyone. I think I've got what I need now.

ML

Woe! metwin1 and meclone2, lets not get too technical here and start talking about the rules for translanting chinese words to english. You two are starting to sound like Dr. Klein when he starts explaining about the molecular structure of an atom.

It's written according to the way it sounds.

Simplicity is the key here.