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I have another question - probably for our American friends. If you were in an alternate universe, whose picture might appear on the one dollar bill in the place of George Washington? Or on the twenty in the place of Jackson?

I'm a little rusty on my American history. But if I recall correctly, there is a famous traitor during the American war of independence. I'm thinking of using him as one of the men. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember his name - or if he was a traitor to the Americans or the British.

Anyway, any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,

ML

You are thinking of Benedict Arnold. He was considered a traitor to the American cause during the American Revolution.

If you really wanted some freaky alt-world stuff, you could suppose that America did not win the Revolution and that our money might still have pictures of the British monarchy on it. At the time I guess that would have been King George III. I get my kings mixed up <g>. Or perhaps Napoleon pulled off some tricky stuff and became Emperor of the New World, so maybe he'd be on the money.

Hope this helps.
Lynn

Benedict Arnold is definitely the traitor you are thinking of. He was an American officer who served almost directly under Washington and was quite celebrated at one time. Then he became more sympathetic to the British, causing his fellow officers to persecute him a bit. He in turn decided to turn traitor. He sold the British a key victory in return for land and power when they took back full control of the colonies. Instead, his plan was foiled and and he wound up serving in the British army and receiving a very small sum of money. After the war her returned to England.

As for who else to put on the money, the idea of british monarchy is good, though probably if the British had won, we just would still be using their money. The other possibility is to use different fouding fathers. Perhaps things were just slightly different at the time of the revelution and different people made it on the money - Philip Livingston, Roger Sherman, John Adams, John Jay, James Madison etc.

Another obvious turning point in American History is the civil war. Replacing Abraham Lincoln on the five dollar bill with anyone else would be pretty astonishing.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

Annie

Benedict Arnold is correct; George III is correct. Since pop culture has been elevated to divine status, their gods and goddesses ready to lead us politically as well as culturally, why not honor those who've helped make our values what they are today: Gordon Gekko. Isn't greed fun as well as good? Or the material girl herself, Madonna. Or if you want to stick with history and corruption, we have Warren G. Harding and Boss Tweed. Aaron Burr and Billy the Kid.

If the war was won, choose any of the founding fathers. If it wasn't won, we'd still be using British money. Of course, if you wanted to shock everyone, you could say we did win independence, but that Benedict Arnold, instead of George Washington, was our commander in chief and first president.

Nqoire ( who muses that Benedict Arnold is an odd ancestor )

Benedict Arnold! Yes. I knew that Thanks, Lynn

Actually, Nqoire, that was exactly what I was planning to do. I guess great minds think alike. The sentence in the story reads as follows:

I also appreciate all the other ideas. After all, I still need a Jackson. I like the idea of Madonna, Jude. And the list of other founding father's is very helpful, too. And if anyone else out there has ideas, please toss them in. After all, I'm not entirely sure how many bills I'm going to need to change by the time this is over

ML

Well, no, probably not... Canada and Australia both have their own currency these days, among others.

That major a change (losing the war) that far back, though, would probably create so many changes as to make the other reality pretty unrecognizable. But if you only want to do minor changes, then other founding fathers are probably good.

If you really want to twist people's brains, put Jefferson Davis, Stonewall Jackson or Robert E. Lee on the $5

PJ

Pam, that's an interesting idea. Use a hero from the confederacy.

Okay, I think I've got this worked out now: At least in dealing with the one and the twenty. In my story, the American's won the war of independence and the north won the civil war. It's just that some of the people played slightly different roles

So here's my new paragraph:

I was going to use Madonna. But when I thought about it, I decided it was more likely that they would choose someone who is dead. So I changed Lee's roll in the war. After all, if I recall correctly he was against slavery and leaving the union. The reason, as I understand it, that he decided to lead the southern army was that he was from Virgina and decided to fight for his home. So I figure he could easily have gone the other way.

And since Lee was arguably the greatest general on either side of that conflict, I think it is entirely possible he could have been President in the future, had he commanded the Northern army instead of the Southern army.

Thanks everyone.

ML

Not only that, US law requires that all people pictured on currency or stamps be dead.

Except for Elvis, of course.

As a non-American I know I shouldn't be answering your question, ML, but I couldn't resist temptation. Maybe Mae West as the Madonna substitute? And Eleanor Roosevelt? Harriet Tubman? Amelia Earhart? After all, in an alternate universe anything can happen

Carol

hey, the amelia earhart silver dollar! i like it! <g>

as for pop culture, i can't really see madonna on actual money. trends come and go too fast, for one thing. besides, i don't think anyone on the money comes from after 1900 (though i could easily be wrong on that score).

i like the twists you currently have, ML. although, looking at it, it seems strange to see whoever it is talking about general lee and then saying "who is this jackson person, anyway?" with lee as the context, my first thought was stonewall jackson, not andrew jackson (even if he is on the $20).

oh, does anyone know if john adams is on any money?

paul revere isn't (and, really, why do we always hear about him instead of dawson? or is it dawes? i can't even remember his name, and he's the one who actually complete his ride without getting caught...).

just a couple of thoughts. hope at least one is helpful.

Paul

You make a good point, Paul, about the confusion of having Robert E. Lee replacing Andrew Jackson on the twenty. After all, everyone is going to immediately think of Stonewall Jackson. So I think I'll change the twenty to a five. That way I can change the last line to read: 'Who was this Lincoln character anyway?' I think that works better.

And, Carol, I like Amelia Earhart - although if I recall correctly, she disappeared sometime in the 1930s or 40s. I guess this universe might decide to include someone after the 1900s - especially since Amelia Earhart was the first woman President of the United States . I think I'll use her for the thousand dollar bills (and yes, there are thousand dollar bills in my story )

ML

need to be going now, but, before i forget, wanted to post a couple of quick links:

US treasury homepage

FAQ about the designs and portraits of the bills

treasury dept\'s homepage for kids (it may have more relevant trivia and such)

Paul

Actually, if you want it real screwed up, you should have Lee lead the Confederacy to victory and then have it eventually rejoin the union. The experiment in States' rights would have failed eventually--the articles of the confederation proved that--and it would pull a major change on American history. Lee was from Virgina, after all, and everybody knows that the South had the best generals because all of the top military academies were in the South.

Save your Confederate money, boys! The South will rise again!

Laura

William (Billy) Dawes completed his ride without getting caught.

Yay! Benedict Arnold is a good guy for once! I like that :-D

Nqoire (who's great-great-great-great....uncle was Benedict Arnold )

Instead of Lincoln, how about John Wilkes Booth? And maybe have that oswald guy on the 1970's half-dollar coin instead of Kennedy?

It's 3:00 am and I'm insane. Ignore me, I'm going to lurk some more and then maybe go to sleep.

This is a very intriguing topic. With so many key points in history, just small changes two centuries ago could cause so many things to change in the future.

For instance, George Washington was named commander-in-chief, but his chief opponent for the job was John Hancock, president of the Second Continental Congress. What would happen if Hancock was CIC? Would Hancock have been able to hold the Colonial Army together at Valley Forge in 1777, not giving them the chance to defeat the British in 1781? Hancock's signature is famous. Would US currency look pretty interesting if the font size was really big?

In another interesting bit of history, George Washington first came to prominence by winning a seat in the Virginia House of Burgesses by offering large quantities of liquor near the polling stations, winning election by the tankard. If he had not done so, it's possible no one today would have ever heard of George Washington.

It was West Point, ironically, that Benedict Arnold was trying to sell out to the British. What would have happened if Major Andre had not been captured? Would West Point have fallen? Would the British have won the day? Would West Point, located in New York, have become the principal military academy in the United States?

After the victory, here's one of those interesting tidbits. German almost became the national language of the new United States, failing in the Continental Congress by one vote. Who would be on the currency if German was the national language?

Would the United States have been more sympathetic to the Central Powers in World War I, having more affinity with Germany than Great Britain perhaps? With a Central Powers victory in WWI, there would never have been the hyperinflation of Germany in the 1920's due to the horrendous Treaty of Versailles, which led to the rise of Adolf Hitler, a little-known Austrian painter.

Or perhaps, the US sided with Germany in WWII?

Someone mentioned that Robert E. Lee chose to remain loyal to his home state rather than go with his beliefs; indeed he abhorred slavery and the concept of secession. Had he accepted the command of the Union Armies offered to him by President Lincoln before the first battle of the war, likely the war would have been over by the Battle of Bull Run (would never have been a "Second" Battle of Bull Run).

Lee had a very bad heart condition. The length of the war and the four years of witnessing horrendous tragedies exacerbated his condition, killing him in 1870, a mere five years after the Civil War ended. With little stress due to a short war, it is conceivable Lee could have become president of the United States. If an incompetent like Grant could, certainly Lee could have.

And if Lee had won, nobody would have ever heard of the failed banker, Ulysses S. Grant.

And here's a twist. In revenge, the Union Armies took over Lee's home in Arlington and turned it into Arlington National Cemetery. If Lee was a national hero with a short war, Arlington National Cemetery would never have come into being.

The name, Alan Pinkerton, may be familiar to many. He founded what's known as the Pinkerton Detective Agency. He was also Union General George McClellan's chief spy during the Civil War. McClellan was known for being overly cautious, causing him to lose (or fail to win) a number of battles. It's not well known that it was the incompetent Pinkerton who fed him stories of overwhelming Confederate numbers when often the Sourthern troops were outnumbered 2- or 3-1. Without Pinkerton, would McClellan still have run against Abraham Lincoln in the 1864 elections? If McClellan had won the Civil War, crushing Joe Johnston's and Lee's army in the Battle of the Seven Days in 1862, would he have defeated Lincoln? Would Lincoln have lived?

Harry Turtledove published a series of novels, starting with "Guns of the South", which starts with the supposition that the South won the Civil War. Lee becomes president of the Confederacy and abolishes slavery.

Sorry if this ran long, but I love alternate histories.

Interesting stuff, Roger. Your mention of Washington reminded me of the distiller whose liquor was often given out by politicians during American elections in the 1830's and '40's. His last name was Booze. Maybe he could be on one of those dollars? (a two dollar bill <g>

Carol

Queen, that's a good idea for the swap of Kennedy with Oswald. If I need coins, I'll keep that in mind.

I don't want to change history too much, mainly because I would be spending half my time explaining the changes rather than telling the story. In fact, I don't intend to explain the reasons why the faces on the bills have changed - I'll leave that up to the reader's imagination

It would probably be the same faces, but In God We Trust would be replaced with In Gott Vertrauen Wir.