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I got an email from fanfiction.net that someone had submitted a review for my story "Basketball: a Lois and Clark Valentine" so I went to check it out. It was from someone named Nikole said "Hey, you took that whole 'im not mad at you' speech that lois said from the show. It's an exact copy of it, or just REALLY REALLY close. Couldn't find your own words i see. And you didn;t site that you took it form the show. That's illegal."

I didn't think I took *anything* from the show. In fact, I thought Lois's reaction was completely different from what happened in the show.

However, I was wondering if anyone else had the same opinion of that story. I don't think I took the lines from an episode and used them illegally , but if I did, I'd be happy to take the story off the archive and fix it. What I thought I did was take Lois's reaction from the show and change it completely.

EDIT: sorry, I thought I had included this. Stupid me!

- Laura

Laura, I doubt very much that that's what you did - or that you would ever have intended to do anything like that.

If you'd like reassurance, you could make it easier for us by pasting the excerpt in question in the thread, perhaps? I'd like to help, but really don't have time right now to find and re-read your story to see the right bit.


Wendy

It's been so long since I read this, that I really can't tell you if I thought the dialogue was close to that from the show. However, even if it is, I don't see what the problem is. There are tons of stories that purposely take chunks of dialogue or even entire scenes from the show. It's not like you took a scene from another movie or television show and rewrote it to make it LnC without giving credit. This is fanfic. The whole point of fanfic is writing our own stories using the universe and/or characters that the television show created. As for the illegality, fanfic itself is already illegal. It's not something that is enforced, but that's why we have disclaimers. I hardly think that a story that contains one scene with dialogue similar to a conversation that appeared on the show is *more* illegal than any other story. All of these stories contain trademarked characters, etc. I just don't think this person has any idea what he/she is talking about. If I were you, I'd just ignore them.

Annie

Because you're basically writing for a LNC fandom, Laura, it's so obvious when lines of dialogue or situations are used from the show that we really don't have to point them out in author's forewards. That's why you don't see authors do it very often. If an author was trying to claim text from the script as their own they'd be unlikely to get away with it with readers who know the scripts inside out. So it's always been something of a tradition - in all fandoms - that such strict copyright declarations are unnecessary and just taken as read.

Although there's nothing to stop you citing script sources if you use them in a story, it's certainly not a problem or anything out of the ordinary if you don't. Most authors assume readers who are fans of the show will work out which is which without prompting.

I can't comment specifically on the story in question because I can't recall the details.

But to be honest I wouldn't let it worry you. FF.net is notorious for silly feedback comments like this. Remember that the average age of readers on the website is eight!.

EDIT: Just noticed your edit and extract, Laura. Yup, I wouldn't let it trouble you any further. It seems to me you're just dealing with someone who doesn't understand the concept of fanfic.

LabRat (who once had someone on ff.net ask her what Zara, Nor and Ching had to do with LNC. <G>)

The only bit that looked even similar to a script, to me, was this bit:

That reminded me of Lois's "I'm not mad, I'm hurt" speech at the beginning of WHALTTA... but I'd hardly call it "lifted word for word."

But this is fanfic, and people have made those same points in one form or another hundreds and hundreds of time... so I wouldn't sweat it.

PJ
who, incidentally, has never understood the whole "if she knows, she'll be a target" theory; hello, duh! she was already a target!

Tell me about it, Pam! I was doubly smacking Clark up aside the head with a two by four on that one because just prior to discovering LNC, I'd spent three years with The Young Riders, where the Kid decided (temporarily) not to marry Lou because it might put her in danger...which made absolutely no sense for precisely the same reasons!

Maybe it's a guy thing.

LabRat

Thanks, Laura. I should add, by the way, that I agree entirely with Annie and LabRat: yes, we use snippets of dialogue in fanfic all the time, and we tend to assume that people know where they come from. So that's not at all a problem, and I should have said so initially. I didn't, though, because it seemed to me that you didn't even think you were close to the script - and now that you've posted your extract, as Pam and Rat have said, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Yes, ff.net is notorious for stupid and even downright rude comments from readers - either ignore her or post back asking her to show you exactly which lines are straight from the episode (and which episode), because you know that they're your own words.


Wendy

I've never understood that one, Labby, from when I was a teenager watching animated Hulk cartoons

In fact, I've worked it into a fic, way back when -- this is from Second Chances:

PJ

Laura, I'd ask her to clarify what she thinks was lifted from the show. I read your excerpt and I don't consider it to be lifted without citation. Yes, there are similarities (like Clark saying "I thought I was talking to Lois Lane here?") but one could argue that in this revelation story, only Lois's reactions are going to be different since that who you are telling the story about -- Clark's comment could be put down to "characterization", since he's made a similar comment twice on the show (he made a joke in DTOSC about Lois disappearing when she put on his glasses). So I don't consider that to be anything other than normal fanfic.

Honestly, it makes me wonder if it's been a long time since she's actually seen the episode in question and she's filling in details that aren't there.

I don't know how people usually respond to feedback on ff.net since I don't post there myself, but maybe you could get a copy of the WHALTTA script and quote her the section she seems to think is copied, to show her that, while you cover the same ideas (which as others have said, is par for the course in fanfic), it is by no means word for word.

Kathy

From the script:


CLARK
So how mad are you?

LOIS
Not at all.

He stops.

CLARK
Pardon?

LOIS
I'm not mad at all, Clark.

CLARK
Look, don't hold back --

LOIS
I'm not.

He looks at her a second, then --

CLARK
I'm sorry, I was talking to Lois
Lane? You might know her, she was
standing here just a second ago...

LOIS
I'm hurt.

CLARK
Oh.

(CONTINUED)

---page break---
"WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT" (#1) Pink Rev. 7/10/95 4.


6 CONTINUED: 6

LOIS
Really, _really_ hurt.

CLARK
This is gonna be worse than mad,
isn't it?
(she turns and walks)
Okay, I've been rehearsing for
months, let's see if I can get it
right:
(he stops her) (X)
Lois, I know this is a shock and I (X)
wanted to be the one to tell (X)
you... so you could understand how (X)
hard this has been... how long (X)
I've carried this secret by myself (X)
and how much I wanted to tell you, (X)
but... when I decided to become
Superman, I --

LOIS
-- became a target, so anyone close
to you would be a target, and then
it got more complicated when you
realized you loved me --

CLARK
-- which was about two minutes
after I met you --

LOIS
-- don't try and score points --

CLARK
-- sorry.

LOIS
I get all the reasoning, I really
do, it's logical, it's even
thoughtful but when you get right
down to it, you made me believe you
were two people and you did it by
lying and that makes me wonder if I
even _know_ you and that hurt me
and you know what?
(realizing)
I _am_ mad.


There are 1 or 2 things that are similar, but I personally don't see anything lifted besides the similar 'I thought I was talking to Lois Lane' said by Clark and then, of course, Lois going through the logical part of him not telling her. But really, come on, it's fan fiction. There is supposed to be similar stuff from the show.

JD

Thanks for posting the script, Jen.

I totally agree with all the points made. Using some lines from the show is completely acceptable - that's why they call it L&C fanfic, after all! And anyway, I don't think the dialogue is the same. I believe that Nikole is overreacting about something she shouldn't worry about.

AnnaBtG. (who read both versions of 'Basketball' last summer and enjoyed it very much.)

Laura,

I wouldn't worry about it. This is *fanfic*, which means that whole storylines complete with dialogue can be taken, re-done in a different manner, and posted as a completely different story. <bg> That's what rewrites are! (Forever and All Eternity I: Fate contains several chunks of revamped for situation dialogue) The others are right--this child doesn't understand the concept of 'fanfic'

Laura

Uh oh, I guess *I* plagiarized too! :p
I doubt that there are many among us that didn't consider the possibility of Lois being a "target"--and write a subsequent dialogue about it.
I wouldn't worry about it, Laura! Clearly the dialogues (yours vs. the show) are very different!!
-Wanda " I'm a target!" Detroit

Ditto what everyone else said. If it were me, I'd either ignore her completely, or write to her and give her a definition of fanfic along the lines of "they're supposed to be similar or they wouldn't be the same characters, which is the entire point of fanfic, as opposed to original fiction."

Smile, Laura, you've got nothing to worry about.

~Anna

Thanks for your support, everyone.

My biggest issue with this is that if I do use lines absolutely directly, I do site the episode I used (ex. in my story 'Speed' I used lines durectly from WWW and I sited WWW). However, if I just the the idea or rough dialogue, I expect that everyone will know where it is comming from because we are all familiar with the characters.

The thing that really irritates me is that this girl was pretty anonomous, so I am not exactly sure how to email her and tell her everything that everyone has said here. Obviously, she really doesn't understand the concept of fanfic -- or she really hates me story and wanted to completely flame me. It's a shame because I love that story -- one of my only early-ish stories that I will reread.

This fic wasn't even an episode rewrite. However, I wanted to keep their reactions to the revelation fairly similar to the show, but have Lois not that mad because she understood why Clark had kept the secret from her.

Oh shoot, I took too long writing this and now I am running late for school . I really should go because we might get our tests back today. :rolleyes:

- Laura