I thought I'd start this thread seeing as how no one else has.

I don't read a lot of fanfic, but ever since I read Revisionist History I always take a peek at your stories, Sue. The first part of this one dragged me in and I read all of it in one sitting. What with the debate going on in the other thread, about nfic and the pgifying of it, I wanted to take the time to thank you for making the effort of providing this version of the story. I'm not into nfic much, so I'm glad I got the chance to read it without the "naughty bits"--although I get the feeling I might be missing out.

At the beginning, I was very uncertain that I would like the premise: I just could not, for the life of me, see Lois suggesting a friends with benefits arrangement to Clark (although I've always thought it would be an interesting angle to explore). I thought that would be so out of character for her that I would find it too jarring.

As I read the story, it occurred to me that I didn't really know whether or not it was out of character, because we rarely got any insight into these characters' sex lives and how they might view the idea of buddy sex. I might be able to infer what they might do, but I couldn't know for sure. So the premise did end up working for me, not in small part due to your brilliant writing!

The A plot was excellent: suspenseful, well crafted, plus you used an interesting villain. Brava!

The B plot: like I said above, I was skeptical in the beginning, but it really clicked. I thought it was pure genius, using ASU as a starting point, because at what other point in S1 would Lois be vulnerable enough to say "to hell with the consequences" and go for it? How else could they have sex and not wind up fighting afterwards, with ill feelings all around? Great idea! Even better that both of them enjoyed it so much that they wanted to do it again. This resulted in a few great scenes with your characteristic snappy, funny dialogue.

I found it interesting that the possibility of abortion never even occurred to Lois. Is this a choice you made based on her character (ie do you think it would just not occur to her) or was it a can of worms you didn't want to open? It's a topic that's usually avoided on American TV (often by letting the character have a miscarriage instead) because it's so controversial. I'm interested in your reasoning behind why you chose not to go that route (not criticizing, just genuinely interested in how authors arrive at such decisions).

I have to admit I was glad that you didn't pile on the angst after the miscarriage: realistically speaking, Lois wouldn't be thrilled about an unplanned pregnancy. Clark's a different matter, but I think if you'd delved into that aspect of the story, it would have taken it in a very different direction. Glad you didn't.

Okay. Wow. This wound up being much longer than expected. Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed the story and how much I love your style. I think you write excellent dialogue and it's one of the main reasons I check out your stories, because I prefer dialogue to introspection. I'll try to be better about feedback in the future.

If I just say ditto to all of that (well, except maybe the abortion question, since I actually don't believe Lois would get one), that probably wouldn't qualify as the overdue fdk I promised, would it? *hopeful*

. . . uh. Tomorrow is pretty booked. How does Thursday work for you, Sue?

*slinks off*

I wasn't implying that she would have an abortion, I was just thinking it might occur to her. A twenty-seven year old, single woman, whose career is her number one priority in life, finds herself pregnant after a no-strings-attached sexual fling. The idea that she would at least think about it isn't that far-fetched, IMO.

Which is why I was curious about Sue's reasoning behind not including it .

Ah, I didn't read carefully enough.

You're right, considering one would be in character; deciding to have one would not. (IMO)

Hey look! Feedback!

It was deliberate, my skirting around the issue of abortion. There are so many opinions on that subject and I didn't want to open that can of worms. I did have Clark mention it - "whatever you decide you want to do, I'll support you" (which just opened an entirely new angle on the discussion of this in the nfic version's thread).

But since the story is over now and I can speak freely, as it were, I'll say this much. My personal opinion is that while Lois would consider the option, however briefly, she *wouldn't* have an abortion. I don't want to get into religion or politics so let's just say that - no matter what she said going into the affair with Clark - it meant more to her than just sex. Clark wasn't a fling.

I still dither over whether I should have had her miscarry or not. It was important to the plot and made the stakes higher for them both in the end. If she hadn't miscarried there would have been less to fight over and less ammunition to hurt each other. It would have changed her reaction to the revelation - it would have changed the revelation entirely. It would have been a completely different story. In the end, what I wanted for them, was to have been through hell and back with their relationship strengthened by what they had suffered and what they had learned (first hand) about each other.

It came down to the fact that I would much rather see them *deliberately* start a family than to wonder if they only stayed together because of their child.

FINALLY! -- YES!

Some proof to back up what I've been telling you all along - you DO have readers on the PG side.

DJ gets up and imitates the dance Clark did in Season's Greedings - "Told ya... told ya... told ya told ya told ya"

Wow - that took me back a few years.

-- MR

I ignored this fic when it first came out due mostly to my belief that Lois and Clark would never sleep together unless they were in a committed relationship. I've never seen either of them as the 'recreational sex' type.

Recently I desided to give the story a try. It had been completed so I could do it in a few sittings.

While I still don't buy into the main premise, and I found that some of the 'problems' they kept having seemed less logical extensions of the situations and more designed to just crank up the angst, I have to admit that I enjoyed the read.

This story was very well-written. And despite the character ticks that might not have dovetailed with my personal vision I felt compelled to continue reading.

There was a continual need to see 'what happens next'. It wasn't quite the 'can't turn away from watching the train wreck' sort of situation, but I felt I had to stay onboard to see how this would eventually work out. (We never have to wonder where the story will end up... that's a given).

A very strong narrative which lost none of its power in the conversion to pgfic. Well done.

Tank (who doesn't read nfic because he gets no thrill out of reading, or watching someone else having sex)

So you've tried several times just to be sure?




I promised. And I meant it. So now, it's time for some serious FDK.

Let us begin at the very beginning. The pencil, and Lois' rant thereupon. Sheer brilliance. Got us straight into Lois' head (always an interesting, if sometimes a bit scary, place to be), while also setting the scene. Four paragraphs in, we not only know what she's thinking and feeling, but we already know something interesting happened between her and Clark.

And then Cat's comment, and Clark's reaction. Yup, definitely setting the scene!

So now we know that there is going to be a great B plot. But it wouldn't be a Sue story without a spectacular A plot as well. One flashback later, and we get the teasing beginnings of the A plot -- and what a doozy! Electricity and murder, oh my!

Back to the B plot. The flashbacks have gotten very interesting, and Clark is smart enough to realize: Yup. Of course. The question is simply when, and how.

And then Martha and Jonathan. I really like your Martha! And throwing out Clark so he would finally go TALK with Lois was a nice touch.

And talk they did. Including: Wow. What woman doesn't want to hear that every so often? *melts*

And the "honey" bit was adorable. And brought us full circle, back to the pencil. Nice touch!

All in all, I'm definitely glad you spent the time pg-ifying the fic.

LOL - I must remember that one.

You know what, Tank? I don't see either them as being the 'recreational sex type' either. But that was the challenge that Hasini gave and I found it intriguing enough to give it a shot. I'm glad you gave it a shot, too. Very, very glad actually. Thank you for being honest in your assessment - that means a lot to me.

I got the idea from a news clipping about a young woman who was killed in New York City a couple of years ago when she stepped on an electrified manhole cover. It turns out that happens more often than you might think. <eeee!>

Thank you! It's lovely feedback like this that makes the time spent well worth the effort.

Thanks guys!

The news clips I referenced can be found here:
Dog Walker Electrocuted
Skateboarder Falls On Manhole Cover

No kidding, it was excrutiating! I recall offering to mail Sue some of my birthday cake in August if she would hurry up and post the next part. And that was somewhere around chapter 9 or 10, before she showed us what true angst is all about.

I just wanted to say that I bought the sex-buddy concept without reservations. I can’t really see Lois as Clark as "no sex before marriage kind of people" as they were portrayed in the latter part of the series, to me, it cheapens their passion.
In my world what really stops them from casual sex (and dating in general)are that they are both control freaks. Lois is afraid of getting hurt. Clark is afraid of hurting others.
In the first season we see that Clark is ready to have casual sex if sufficiently motivated (Pheromone), clearly he would want something more but he could settle for less with the right woman. Lois, despite her tough act, is burned in the relationship area and tries to get her amorous feelings under control by separating love and sex. That is how I interpret her teasing and the way she uses her sex appeal to get stories. And it’s apparent to me it’s a sore spot for her to be percieved as the working girl without a love life by Cat and her sister. I could easily see her having a fling just to prove them wrong.

But I couldn’t see Lois having casual sex with someone she didn’t think she could control. But Clark is that guy she has confided in repeatedly and he has kept those confidences, in FB most especially the sex before the end of days thing. She has takes advantage of him in many different ways without him blowing a gasket.
To Lois, if anyone should be safe to experiment with it is Clark. And really, she is offering Clark free no holds barred sex, every guys supposed dream. Plus if you have had sex with someone it gets enormously less embarrassing to ask for more.

This idea is not new in the fandom either, see Meredith’s “honeymoon feeling” or Wendys “happy new tears”. Clark is discrete, a nice guy, uncommitted and wrapped around her finger, if Lois was low on confidence and high on libido I have no trouble seeing her go for it. Here Clark rebuffs her not because of some higher morality, but because he is afraid it would destroy their relationship. It feels like a fairly accurate reading to of Lois if she thought Clark wanted her just for sex and that she had difficulty controlling her feelings for him that she would try to distance herself.

Hmm, if you don't read Nfic, how do you know it didn't lose anything in the conversion ?

Sue, thank you so much for those links to the articles about people being killed or burned by manhole covers. Horror!!!

And Arawn, it's always a pleasure to read your analyses of various problems, facts or situations. I agree with your conclusions 90% per cent of the time. (Eh... make that 95% of the time! )

Ann

Wow. I couldn't possibly disagree more.

Either with them specifically, or in general.

Thinking waiting is important "cheapens passion"?!?

I just cannot wrap my head around that.

Like Rivka, I totally disagree with the thought that L&C's waiting "cheapened their passion". I realize that it is no longer traditional - or even "normal" (whatever that means) - for couples to wait until they're married to sleep together, so I wouldn't have been critical if the show hadn't made them wait. And I realize that probably the main reason the writers made this decision was in deference to the young viewers. But they justified it with plot/character reasons, and I personally found it incredibly sexy that these two characters - where one could literally feel the electricity sparking between the two - would wait to be married first.

And on a side note, I read both gfic and nfic versions of the story, and I personally don't think it lost any of its intensity in the conversion. Yes, if you want to read detailed descriptions of their activities together, the gfic version would not be the place to do it. But all the angst and all the love and passion that fuels these characters is definitely still there in the gfic version. Sue did a great job of the conversion, with tasteful fadeouts, language choices, less provocative description - those only reading the gfic version are not losing anything, in my opinion.

Kathy

Okay, putting my love for Faustian aside... for the moment...

I wholeheartedly agree with Rivka and KathyM. To me personally, their waiting in the series made their love worth more - not cheapen it. It proved that they were willing to wait for each other. That they meant more to each other just just a cheap thrill or a fling (but I come from a traditional upbringing).

I think it made their love story that much more wonderful in the series.

Wonderfully put Kathy. I've read both and if reading nfic doesn't appeal to you, then you don't lose anything at all by reading the gfic version.

Outstanding job Sue.

-- MR

Passion to me is about loss of control. People who can schedule their love life are in control. To me, this love story is strongest when these two people that are so obsessively controlling just surrenders and lets everything go. Those are my favourite fics anyway.

Maybe I’m a romantic, but to me true love needs no props or rituals, if they have jumped each other in the beginning of the third season would their love have been a “cheap thrill”?

Not a reply--just random musings.

I don't think waiting "cheapens" passion so much as it brings it to the holy and sacred level, which personally is not so fun for me. Your explanation makes more interesting and complex characters I think. Don't get me wrong I see the reasoning in waiting, I just think that it's not the most fascinating insight into them. You just end up with Clark is good and loves Lois, Lois is good and loves Clark. *shrugs*

This is just me, I've mentioned before--real life, in my opinion, makes less than exciting fiction. So does strict adherence to anything (which makes cookie cutter, flat characters). We raise up characterization as an inviolable banner and yet, we all have moments where we looked at the way Lois and Clark were written on the show and scratch our heads. I don't know. This example always gives me pause over any invocation of some sacred characterization that might prevent me from reading something new and interesting.

"Clark wouldn't...
Lois wouldn't..."

--are just not really productive statements to me. It's more about looking at them like real people and seeing that all it takes is one dense situation to push them out of stereotypical molds. Maybe the situation just didn't work, maybe I wasn't led in as detailed a manner into what caused X or Y behaviour--these, I think, are observations that have more meat to them.

But what do I know anyway? I'm just a newbie.

alcyone

And, why, pray, would your opinion be any less insightful or relevant just because you're new to the forum, alcyone? I'm aware that there are forums out there that have a downer on newbies (and frankly that attitude irks the heck out of me), but we don't go in for that nonsense here.

We'd have a lot of boring discussions if only those with a certain amount of tenure were allowed to participate!

So, you go, girl!

LabRat

Does not giving into a desire mean that the desire simply isn't strong enough? Frankly, yes. But I disagree with the word “cheapen”. Lois and Clark’s passion was electric, but their commitment to their promise was stronger.

Strong people like Lois and Clark don’t lose control. Loss of control indicates that nothing else exists but the desire of moment. It means fuzzy thinking, not knowing what you are doing, and I just don’t buy that for either of them. On the other hand, surrendering to a desire simply means deciding that the reasons why you weren’t doing something are no longer important enough to continue not doing it.

If Lois and Clark had made love before marriage, it wouldn’t have been due to a loss of control, it would have been surrendering to a desire – a conscious decision that waiting was not as important as being together. And the fact that they did wait doesn’t mean that the desire wasn’t outrageously strong – it just means their promise was stronger. And that is as sexy as hell, not to mention a great basis for a strong marriage.

Recently, when I have tried to voice opinions on these boards, a lot of people have felt attacked and insulted. So let me start by saying now that I'm trying to voice my own opinion and nothing else. If you feel that I'm trying to put words in your mouths and thoughts in your heads, I'm not. I don't know what any of you are thinking. I will try to formulate certain general theories, but I may certainly be wrong about them.

Precisely because I can't read anybody else's mind, it is of course impossible for me to know why any other member of this board is a Lois and Clark fan at all, or what it is about our favorite couple that attracts any of you to them in the first place. But I can think of certain possible reasons that could make people approve of Lois and Clark.

The first reason is that some people may think that Lois and Clark could serve as role models for young people. While I have no idea how any member of these boards views premarital sex, I do know that there is an influential "family values movement" in the U.S.A., a movement which tends to condemn premarital sex. Anyone who shares this view of premarital sex can use Lois and Clark as role models. According to the LnC TV show, our favorite couple remained absolutely chaste until their wedding night, even though they had to suffer through all kinds of angst and resist very many temptations before they could finally exchange their wedding vows. But, also according to the LnC TV show, Lois and Clark became very, very happy after they were married. Therefore, it is possible (but not necessary) to conclude that Lois and Clark became so happy because they didn't have sex until their wedding night.

Personally I have a problem with this kind of view of Lois and Clark, if only because I grew up with very didactic, rather moralistic stories about children who behaved well and were rewarded because of it. These stories were usually religious and had a supernatural twist. A typical story dealt with a little girl who was playing in a ramshackle old shed and suddenly heard her mother call out to her. The girl immediately left the shed to go and find out what her mother wanted. Hardly had she exited the decrepit building than the roof came crashing down, and it would have killed her instantly if she hadn't left the shed the moment she heard her mother's voice. Of course, it turned out that her mother hadn't called for her after all. Instead, it was the girl's guardian angel who had imitated her mother's voice and called out to the child. The angels looked out for her, but it was the girl's own obedience that saved her.

I liked this story, but at the same time it irritated me. I knew a lot of religious people, but not a single one of them had ever heard from, let alone been saved by, their own guardian angel. Therefore I felt that the story about the girl was lying to me. If I were ever to find myself in mortal danger, I was sure that no angel would call out to me to save me. The story was trying to make me and other children become obedient, and it did so by promising us a reward, our own guardian angel that actively intervened in our lives and saved us from bodily harm, as long as we were obedient. But I felt very strongly that this reward did not exist, and the obedience that would give us this reward was an ideal in itself, an ideal for its own sake.

Similarly, I feel that the stories that suggest that Lois and Clark became so happy because they stayed chaste until their wedding night are lying to me. I believe that the reward that Lois and Clark seemed to get - a happy marriage - is not generally created by premarital abstinence. I believe, instead, that the premarital chastity is an ideal in itself, an ideal for its own sake. I believe that it takes very many factors to create marital bliss, and I don't think that premarital chastity is necessarily one of those factors.

I said that the stories which promote Lois and Clark's premarital chastity feel like lies to me, but that doesn't mean that I regard the writers of these stories as liars. Indeed, I think that these writers express their own beliefs and ideals about romance and marriage in their stories. And for what it's worth, I think that many LNC fans are here because this is a place where it is possible to indulge in various lofty ideals and ideas about what is right and good, not least when it comes to relationships. Frankly I don't believe you can easily be a fan of Superman if you don't have the slightest inclination to indulge in wishful thinking. I think many of us live out our dreams by creating "perfect" fantasies embodied by Lois and Clark. Some writers may celebrate Lois and Clark's premarital chastity that way, not because they necessarily believe that unmarried abstinence automatically leads to a happy marriage, but because a LnC story is a good place to celebrate one's own ideals about romance and marriage.

To some people, Lois and Clark's premarital chastity in the face of strong temptation may indeed be the most attractive thing about them. To others, it is probably the LnC passion and attraction in itself that make these fans want to see more of Lois and Clark. And if you are here because you respond to the passion you sense between Lois and Clark, then I think it's natural that you want to see Lois and Clark give in to that passion. In other words, then it becomes natural that you want to read LnC nfics containing dscriptions of Lois and Clark's lovemaking. Moreover, I think that if Lois and Clark's passion is what attracts you to this site, then it is also natural that you may prefer to read about Lois and Clark's unmarried encounters over their married ones. After all, we could see that Lois and Clark were extremely attracted to one another, but that they were also afraid and reluctant to give in to their attraction. It takes a lot of passion to overcome a strong resistance, and because we must assume there will be more resistance to unmarried than to married lovemaking, we may also assume that Lois and Clark are driven by a stronger passion during their premarital encounters than during their married ones. In other words, their unmarried sex seems to pay a greater tribute to their passion than their married encounters, and to passion-lovers, their unmarried sex will therefore be more satisfying.

Naturally, it is possible to counter that Lois and Clark's passion isn't less overwhelming just because their need to respect the purity of their love and the sanctity of marriage is even stronger. But is unmarried sex an ugly thing that cheapens a relationship and diminishes the love that is its foundation?

Personally, I idealize Clark and Lois very, very much. I think of them as two people who were born light-years apart and yet were destined to love no one but each other. The obstacles that they had to overcome were immense, and the purity of their passion is, to me, a thing of amazing beauty. To me, the idea that their physical union might be soiled by the fact that they have not undergone a certain earthly ceremony is absolutely unacceptable. It is their soulmate status, their connection across the light years, that makes them so utterly, perfectly romantic and erotic to me. To me, a wedding ceremony is something rather superficial and unimportant in comparison to the cosmic bond between them. And to me, the idea that they would refrain from consummating their cosmic bond just because they have not yet uttered certain words in a certain building is something that cheapens their passion and their bond. How can a string of words be more important than them? To me, that is unacceptable.

DJ, you said this:

To you, it was Lois and Clark's willingness to wait to have sex that really proved that they didn't regard one another as a cheap thrill or a fling. That is your take on them, or at least that's how I read your quote. We all see these people differently. Nevertheless, I think most LnC fans will agree that Lois and Clark's relationship is something incredibly important and significant, and that it is not a fling. I can't remember a single LnC story that has treated Lois and Clark's relationship as a cheap thrill.

I think we all felt that Faustian was ultimately about Lois and Clark's incredible bond, too. To Clark, their buddy sex was not about a cheap thrill but about trying to win Lois (and about giving in to his incredible passion for her). To Lois, it may have seemed like a fling, but we all knew that it was so much more than that. Think about it. Wouldn't almost all of us have been absolutely extremely disappointed if Lois had just walked away from her buddy sex with Clark and turned her back on him forever? Is it even possible to think of Lois and Clark that way - as two individuals who indulge in a cheap fling and then just walk away from it, slightly jaded by their experience but otherwise unchanged?

To some people, Lois and Clark's premarital chastity in spite of their overwhelming passion is the most beautiful tribute to their love. To others, to me, their premarital lovemaking is an all but necessary confirmation of their passion and truly cosmic love. We view their lovemaking differently. Let's try to get along anyway.

Ann

Interesting discussion.

Personally, having been raised in a liberal, secular household, I don't believe in waiting for marriage to have sex. Whether or not Clark and Lois decide to have sex before they're married doesn't matter to me as long as their decision is explained in a way that makes sense to me.

On the show, I had the feeling they just glossed over it. We had Clark confessing to Lois that he was a "very patient man" and then--bam!--we have them in the newsroom, talking about hardly being able to wait for their wedding night, and fade to black.

How did they get there? Now that the subject was out in the open, and the physical aspect of their relationship had been discussed, why did they decide that they were going to wait?

I thought it was very good post Alcyone. And you are right simply saying that Clark or Lois wouldn’t do this, or that, aren’t really constructive and I’m quite guilty of it. I try to intersperse my feedback with a IMO here and there and I hope I don’t limit the range an authors of expression. Still, I’ve gotten the impression that most authors wants to hear what did clash with your preconceptions and why.

It’s just that sometimes authors come so close to my fantasy of the perfect Lois and Clark fic and then they do something that really jars with how I picture them. But then again that happens all the time in the show too. ( I've given this a lot of thought and I realize that instead of dancing around my feelings for you, I have to deal with them head on and verbalize my emotions... I can’t believe someone got paid to write this. )

Casual sex generally have greater angst potential yes. And as we were saying in the other forum it’s exactly because Lois makes Clark compromises his ideals that Faustian becomes such a strong premise. And much of his aggressive frustration also makes sense. Getting so close but still no cookie. It small wonder he tries to take his pound of flesh out of her or is it into her?


Well I do, all people have limit. Very rarely does my emotions run away with me but when it did it simply felt like a careening train. I could probably have snapped myself out of it but I had no desire to do so. One of the things that make me like LCTNAOS, but not the other Superman incarnations, is that Clark is pictured as someone with a serious depth of feelings. He is not a robot doing good because it’s the good thing to do. He is simply a nice guy that has the power to alleviate the suffering of mankind, something that he, with his enhanced senses never can pretend to not know about. His godlike powers makes him take everything in the world personal and controlling his emotions is not something that is automatic, so I can totally buy him being swept away by love. It’s not about how strong your character is it’s about how deeply you are touched.

Not IME and opinion, giving in too your feelings have little to do with reason. If you still can can do check and balances you haven’t gotten bitten bad enough.

You think so? I’m rather doubtful. IME those who save themselves for marriage are setting themselves up for some serious hit and miss action.

I thought that was very beautifully said, Ann like the rest of your post. I don't really have the cosmic angle. But I also find Clark's dogged desire to marry her romantic.
A man who want to get hitched at the earliest opportunity isn't kidding around. Then again chances are that he is some weirdo.

I owe a huge debt to Rivka who gently nudged me earlier this week to check the PG boards because I'd received some FDK on my story. So I wrote my thank you and figured the topic would then slip back into obscurity and only be visited by me in a fit of self-doubt days/weeks/months from now when I needed a boost.

I know for a fact that I'm not the first author to write about Lois and Clark engaging in pre-marital sex. I doubt that I'm even the first one to write about them engaging in a no-strings-attached arrangement, so I can only sit in open-mouthed amazement that this story has generated this kind of debate. It's humbling, it's exciting and it makes me actually chortle when I check the boards and see what's been said.

I know I'm going to sound wishy-washy, but I have to agree with both sides of the "waiting for marriage" issue. I was raised in the most ultra-conservative of homes. I was taught in no uncertain terms that sex was to be saved only for marriage. It was heavily implied by my religion, my parents and pretty much everyone around me that good little girls DIDN'T and that any girl who gave in to temptation was damaged goods. I believed it (and to some degree, still do). So, even though I had a few encounters with my high school boyfriend in the back seat of his car, I maintained my "virtue" more through peer pressure and the fear of being one of those girls everyone whispered about than any real moral conviction. Cut to me at age 22, still a virgin and curious beyond all belief about what the hell I was probably missing out on. So after a drunken party one night I went home with a guy I really liked but knew I didn't love. I still have mixed feelings about the whole thing - would that I had waited six more freakin' months because that's when I met my husband. Did he wait for me? No. (To be fair, he was 31 at the time).

We had been dating for about four months and he was constantly teasing me about being such a goody-two shoes. He would call me on a daily basis to see what the "righteous scale" was. If it was anything higher than a six he'd tell me to call him back when I got to a two. It was a joke - and it was a very fun part of our relationship. Until the night that I actually DID get to about a 1 (or lower) on the scale and was full-on ready to sleep with him. He backed off (totally pissing me off and confusing me in the process) because our relationship meant more than just sex to him. Much, much later I would love him even more for that. At the time I was really angry. How dare he pursue me for months and then not follow through?

My point (did I have one?) is that, yes, I did regret sleeping with someone else before Mark. When we actually did finally "give in" to the attraction between us it was completely spontaneous and totally unexpected and better than any fanfic ever could be. I've never regretted not waiting until we were married to sleep with Mark (especially that first time). I wouldn't tell our son that, at least, not until he's much older and married himself. Neither would I want my son to think that pre-marital sex is okay - in general I don't think it is.

But it sure is fun to write about. Especially in the case of Lois and Clark where, while it may not happen within the bonds of holy matrimony, it still *means* something beyond just scratching an itch or gratifying a base desire. In Faustian, Clark entered into the agreement because he thought it might be what Lois needed to "ease" into loving him. Lois couldn't acknowledge to herself that it meant more, but she sure got upset when Clark reminded her that it wasn't supposed to be real. Because it was real to her. It meant something beyond just sex. If it didn't, the PG version would have been really short indeed.

In the case of them deciding to wait at the end of Virtually Destroyed, I think it was because they were supposed to get married in a few more weeks. How could they (or we) have known of the horrors the writers were about to throw at us?

You're totally right! There were only four episodes between VD (that is a somewhat unfortunate acronym, given the subject matter of the episode. Heh.) and INPY. However, if we look at the time that passed between the airing of the two eps, there were nearly two months in between. If it was supposed to be a month on the show, I can buy your argument. I guess I could even buy two months.

I don't know.... I still would have liked more information about their motivation. Prior to VD, I just never got the impression that they were the type to wait. Clark was all ready to give into Lois in PML and, of course, we know that Lois had that encounter with Claude, so it wasn't something she had decided on principle. On the other hand, she wanted to wait with Lex, but I think that had more to do with the fact that she knew, deep down, that she didn't want to be with him. And, not to mention, it would have royally pissed off the audience if Lois had done the nasty with Luthor.

For what it's worth, this ain't a new argument I remember being a FOLC as third season was in progress, and I remember long involved discussions (pre-VD) of what sort of experience Clark might have previously had. There were good arguments on all sides. After VD made the "very patient man" thing canon, then we started working on what his reasons might have been, since that was left wide open.

There was speculation that they slept together after OW (in previous eps, they'd made a point to end it with Clark flying off; in that one, they didn't). And tons of us thought they'd surely made love before he left for NK (fluttering curtain scene, after exchanging informal wedding vows). Then the writers came along and messed it up again

I'm kind of ambivalent about the issue these days. In real life, I think sex is a sacred thing and should be practiced only within marriage. I don't generally read nfic these days for non-morally related reasons. But L&C aren't real people, they don't exist in the real world, and they're eternally destined to get married sooner or later, so... I'm not especially worried about which order they do things in. My favorite genre of fanfic is the kind where they start a romantic relationship, and with a lot of authors that means lovemaking, either stated or implied. Some of my favorites, in fact, involve pre-marital love-making. I think it's cause it's got that little bit of extra spice of the forbidden.

PJ

I always got the impression, though it may be heavily influenced by fanon, that Lois and Clark waited because they were both a bit skittish. I never thought they waited for moral reasons, or even to intensify or preserve the passion. Clark, as we learn in VD, is a bit unsure of the whole intimacy thing because he's different. And Lois is equally as skittish because she's only known "federal disasters," so she likely thinks she's jinxed or no good or something. For me, the two of them agreeing to wait was more about making sure it was something special that they could look forward to. Kind of like Christmas (or whichever holiday suits you)--sure, it's a rush to open all your presents early, but isn't there something a touch more magical waiting for Christmas morning?

Who knows, maybe they realized that their nervousness would be inversely proportional to the level of passion between them--as in, the more the build up to passion, the less they'd think about being nervous.

And, bringing the point back to Faustian...

I, too, was a little worried when I first saw the idea in its original thread. I knew buddy sex for Lois and Clark would be a hard premise to buy into, but I was thrilled to see that Sue would be handling it, as I'd really enjoyed her writing and command of the characters in her previous stories. I knew it would be done well (and somehow that was still underestimating you, Sue!). What made it believable for me was exactly what Sue explained: Lois and Clark both "said" it was just buddy sex, but they both knew (whether consciously or subconsciously) that it was far more than that.

While I'm here, I might as well say again how much I loved this story, Sue!

Sara (who is getting far too good at this procrastinating thing...)

Hi Sue, I read your story and for me it's really well written!The story has to me made curious because it was strange for me a buddy sex like this between Lois and Clark! I was skeptical on this! And maybe, now I read all the chapters, I'm still! I think Lois and Clark are so strong and deep and optimally described in their motivations in your ff, but for me they are a little out of charachter! Lois would not have never made a pact of this sort with Clark and with anyone else and Clark would not have never made sex with she without to say before that he was Superman. Ok....but this is the canon....without the canon, without the lines that all of us know, these Lois and Clark are very interesting and complex and real! By the way, there are many aspects maintained in their charachters like the strong feeling and the fear to tell much to each other!
For me in the serie Lois and Clark waited for sex for 2 reasons: first the production of the tv-show and the young audiance (only after the marriage there are sex's scenes or references), two: their love is big and incredible, nearly sacred, they think it will be more special after the marriage!!!