Kitty, if you want to post your questions here, since the poll no longer works, your readers can give you input in this thread.

LabRat

Your asking me! I don't even remember what my questions were. Your talking to a woman with very bad memory.

Hi,

Great start.

Here are the questions Kitty wanted answered by readers of her story:

Questions:
1. Is the content of the story understandable?
2. Does the Story flow?
3. Do you think it would be appropriate to have a complete detail description of Symptons, Diagnosis, and treatment proceedures? Is it needed or not?
4. Your feeling on Crystal's struggles with her diability?
5. Do you now know what an APD is?
6. Is it too long?


LabRat

Superroo Asked: Who is the other author?

right here! Kitty posted this as a challenge at first but I had no idea where to start or even how to explain it. so, Kitty and I put our heads together and started to write. So, I really have to thank Kitty, b/c she has taught me a lot over the weeks that we have been writting lost child.

well, it seems that it's not really Kitty's fault; as everyone should know by now that I have to be the worst speller on this board

bye-
Lisa

LnC101=Clark
Kitty=Lois ... ...just teasing Lisa.

Your writing style is pretty much like what they said clark's was on the show. The touchy and feely thingy and I'm just the hard core evidence type. Lois and Clark

___________________
6. Is it too long?
___________________


It can never be too long!! LOL

Oh, I totally understand that rush of excitement! When I first started posting fanfic (back in the dark ages ), I was always in too much of a hurry to spell-check. Later, though, I got pretty embarrassed about some of those early stories And, unfortunately, fanfic readers haven't got unlimited time, so unless they really really love a story, they're only gonna read it once -- you know what they say, you've only got one chance to make a good first impression!

I guess what I'm saying is, I think it's worth your time to try to fix stuff up before putting it out there... It's up to you, of course. Good grammar won't redeem an awful story, but awful grammar *can* spoil a good story, and that'd be a shame.

PJ

Kitty and Lisa --

I am sorry, but I had a really hard time following the story. I can generally get past spelling errors, but a lot of the grammar errors were hard to get past. I stuck with it because as someone who works in neural engineering, I thought it might be interesting. However, I gave up reading pretty quickly because it was too much work for me to read it and decipher what was happening.

Even this first sentance was almost enough to turn me off to the story. "It five years ago . . ." is not a good way to start off a story. There isn't even a verb to go with your subject it. It might sound better as "Five years ago, Lois Lane gave birth to a healthy baby girl, Crystal." or something to that affect. It might have been better expanded into an entire paragraph about Crystal's childhood.

The rest of the story was very . . . abrupt. It was fast moving when I felt like I needed you to explain a little more about what the characters were thinking and feeling. Most of the dialogue didn't sound like characters speaking, and the story didn't really have a flow.


I will try to answer your questions.

I think the content is understandable, but the way it was presented makes it too choppy to really get the full effect of what is happening. I don't really feel the emotional involvment or any sympathy for any of the characters.

No, it really doesn't. It is really choppy and hard to follow. I think it could be fixed by adding a lot more detail and by fixing the numerous gramatical mistakes and also by making the dialogue more realistic.

I think that might be too much if you just listed it like that. I do think it is important to work it into the story, though. For example, for Symptoms, in the story, have Crystal exhibiting the symptoms. For the diagnosis, show the visit to the doctor where the final diagnosis is made. The same for the treatment -- and possibly show if she has improved because of the treatment.

Honestly, I didn't read that far because I couldn't get through the writing.

I believe it is an auditory processing disorder where there is some kind of block between the auditory cortex and the higher processing centers of the brain. However, I didn't get that from the story.

No, I think it needs to be way longer and in greter detail to set up the situation much more effectively.

- Laura

You don't know what is abrupt until you meet me.

Why do you want to have sympathy for her. I would be affended if you did.

If you didn't read it why are you saying that. We did do that.

Now I have to ask. only post if you *Have* read the whole thing! :rolleyes:

This is a work in progress. It is NOT complete yet. *LAURA!*

Kitty,

If you read my entire post, you would see that I outright said that I only read the beginning, and I could not continue reading because the story was too abrupt with too many grammar errors as I pointed out in the section I quoted. Thus, I was only offerring suggestions on how you could possibly make this story better given what I had read. I don't have the time to beta read, but I've always appreciated when other writers pointed out things that could be improved in my stories. I'm sorry that obviously you don't feel the same way. I think this story could have a lot of potential to be a good story, however, in its current state, I am sure others like me would also have trouble getting through more of the story than the first few paragraphs. I tried to offer you constructive suggestions, which you seemed to be asking for.

Also, I never said that I thought it was complete. The 1/? in the title kind of indicates that to me. I am sorry if you took my comments the wrong way. From your questions, it seemed like you wanted constructive criticism. I'm sorry I gave it to you if you can't take it.

In terms of "sympathy" for the characters, I didn't mean that I want to "feel sorry for" her. I meant more like empathise with the characters, inderstand what is going through their minds, understand what they are feeling. Feel like I understand the decisions they make.

I'm sorry if you took this the wrong way. It was completely unintended. I meant to help you.

- Laura

and Well you did give me the idea that you did.

I am not even going to try anymore. :rolleyes:

Laura and Kitty,

I am sorry for making a suggestion but i have been reading what you two have been posting and i think that both of you should stand back a little bit. it has become obviosuly something personnal between both of you.

Kitty, your work is always welcome and i know you have gone through a hard time and some negative fdk on your work. Obviously it doesnt make any of us writers happy when we receive such kind of fdk, but as i said before... any fdk is fdk.

Now Laura, i truly believe you are willing to help our friend kitty improve her work so we can all enjoy her writing, but i am afraid that your approach sometimes tend to be a little bit agressive. Maybe it is the tone of your speech. If i may suggest you something, i would recommend a more understanding and supportive reaction towards other people´s work. I´m not saying your fdk is not welcome, all i am saying is that sometimes you can hurt someone´s feelings. if i were kitty, i would be hurt by your comments and maybe that is why she had reacted so agressively.

I hope i am not interferring that much. i truly just wanted to help.

MDL.

Yeah, Mad dog Lane. Tone of voice is everything to me but maybe...just maybe... I would change the first sentence.

Thanks.

After all it is still in the writing stage, It's not in the final stages yet. Otherwise, we would've sent it out for publishing.

Always here to help

Keep writing, i´m anxious to read it with its final adjustments.

MDL

MDL and Kitty,

I said I was going to stay out of this discussion. I don't know why I am posting again. I must be a glutten for punishment or something.

I wonder if the feedback is actually negative (i.e. something meant to hurt, to make a person stop writing forever) or if it is constructive (i.e. something meant to help, to make a story better). Comments that I've seen here have been nothing but constructive in nature -- including my own. Grammar and spelling and structure and well-developed plotting are important elements to a story. Stories are hard to read and hard to get involved with if they are not (at a minimum) written in good grammar and spelling. Kitty, so many of us have offerred you suggestions, but you aren't willing to consider them. From your responses to comments, I almost think you only read a select sentance or two from each comment and form an opinion without even trying to improve your grammar and or spelling.

The criticism is not malicious in any way. However, I can not just say "YAY GREAT STORY MORE MORE MORE" if I don't honestly believe it. As people I have beta read for can say (Julia, Roger ) that I tend to be very picky because that is how I would love my own writing to be picked apart.

I hope this shows the difference between the "negative" comments and the "constructive" comments.

Malicious/Negative comments:

God, Laura, you suck. STOP WRITING AND SAVE DISK SPACE. Stupid girl. Jeez, I hate you. Go away.

OR

Laura, you are stupid, and you smell bad. You are fat and slow and stupid and your hair is ugly. (none of it is actually true )

Constructive comments:

Laura, you kind of lost me there. I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Why don't you try to say it like this . . . (a weekly quote from my PhD advisor at our Mon morning meetings )

or

Laura, this is bad BECAUSE . . . and it can be improved BY . . .

I hope you see that there is a clear difference between negative and constructive comments.

I hate to disagree, MDL, but some authors actually thrive on such comments. I have to practically BEG readers to give me these kinds of comments. I want to know what is wrong with my stories so I can improve them. I have written over 40 stories (some no longer on the archive) under the pen name Alicia U. My first stories were so bad that I took them off the archive to revise them. I am not at all a writer by nature -- I am a biomedical engineer who once had a professor tell her that her writing was worse than his 5 year old children's (and they didnt even speak english natively! I do.), so I am always eager to learn from more seasoned writers on how to improve my writing. On my early stories, two writers who I really admired, Yvonne and Christy Kubit (who I believe is gone from FoLCdom), offerred me some wonderful constructive criticism that I remember to this day. They taught me about writing dialogue and the associated grammar rules about paragraphing and commas. Carol Malo is also very good about giving constructive comments. She is helping me right now with my latest story. She taught me about limiting repitition to make a story more powerful. To some, the criticism might seem like negative feedback, but really all the critic is trying to do is help a writer become better. It is actually positive feedback. And these are the comments that stick with me. As much as I love to hear that my story is good, I love to hear even more that my story could be even better.

Maybe I am in the minority. Please, consider this an open invitation to EVERYONE that if you read my stories, PLEASE comment on anything that you don't like, that bothers you, that comes off wrong, that can be improved. Anything.

If you look at my old stories (heheheh no one can see the REALLY REALLY REALLY bad stories because I took them off the archive and they only now exist in a purple binder on my bookshelf in my closet in my parents' house I can't say I'm sorry for that.

I will not respond to the "tone" issue because it is very hard to tell tone when you don't actually hear a tone of voice and it is just black letters typed on a plain one-colored background. You can't claim to "hear" the tone. Often sarcasm and true mean tones are confused in typeface as are joke vs. anger.

- Laura

I wont even go that far Laura. I am here for fun and not to be part of a useless and pointless fight. As i said, I thought I could say something for the help of the cause.

I thought posting here was for you to keep contact with people, saying whatever you want to say, good or bad, grammatically well written or not. This is a chance for people to expose their ideas and if their style do not please one, then one should be careful with his/her words because not everyone understands criticism the same way.

and

are completely different ways of approaching a person.

I do not need examples to know when people are treating me like a five year old child. I am not a native speaker but I believe I do not need a PhD to differ negative and positive.

I do not like to be a "voyer" whatsoever. I do not claim to speak perfect english neither am I looking for perfection because it is honestly not my first language. I doubt I could handle this conversation in your language any longer than this because this is way far from my league. In mine, I would have a better chance to explain my point. My efforts here are to support people´s writing and make my own stories with or without my favorite characters. Just for the fun of it. But of course, we all are here for different purposes.

My first story was just posted less than 20 days ago. I do not have to count on background here to figure i am welcome around. I have made good friends here for which i am very thankful.

Laura, I have checked your work and all your postings and i do not believe your professor has actually said such a cruel thing to you. You truly did not deserve it because you can explain yourself and your points in such a clarifying way that i doubt someone would even dare to say anything otherwise.

As a Linguistics researcher, I can guarantee you that we have "tones" of speech either verbal or written. I do not see how a person could tell you have abrupt manners if not by the words you choose to write when you are making your speech.

I do not wish to start anything from here and that is why i will not even look for further comments on this. This is not something to go personnal on me. My criticism was not accepted here once i said manners and the right choice of words are helpful tools. As far as I can remember, the only part who received my criticism in a better way was the part that was supposed not to understand criticism whereas the part that claimed to accept it, felt in a sense obbliged to respond even though we were told that there would not be any posts after that.

Again I do not wish to interfere on your issues with one another so, i will not be posting anything here from now on. It was a mistake to even think I could bring some sense to a tense conversation like this one turned out to be. And do not worry because I generally keep my word.

I will be looking forward for your maginifying glass opinion over my work. ANY feedback from you and from others will be always welcome, preferably if it is not made in such an abrupt way... if that is possible to you.

From a true fan of both of you.

MDL (Who still thinks it was not a good idea to post something in the first place.

Laura, I agree with you about the value of criticism -- I have learned a *ton* about writing due to comments received from lots of different FOLCs over the years, and I can't say how much I appreciate that. But then, you and I are the type of people who want to "hone the craft" of writing. There are a lot of us around, and for us, constructive criticism is gold. I'll admit that I personally find it painful at times, but I try to get around that, so I can learn from what I'm hearing.

BUT.... we can't forget that there are also lots of writers here who are just doing it for fun, and who don't want to spend time on fiddly grammar rules, or whatever. They have a story to tell and just want to get it out there. And that's perfectly fine.

The trick is telling which is which Sometimes it's totally obvious, but more often you really can't tell right off the bat. So it's usually wise to tread softly at first -- say something mild, and if they respond well to that, then you can get into more detail.

I think we get spoiled sometimes, since there is a level of quality required on archived stories (compared to some of the dreck on fanfiction.net <shudder>), with volunteers going through and offering suggestions to tidy up the grammar. And even then, an author does have to get a story to a minimally readable state before submitting it. But the level of effort an author puts into their story is entirely their decision.

Kitty, you asked about how much detailed information on disorders to include. I can't really comment on the story, since I haven't read it, but if you're curious about my approach, you could always read my "A Special Child," which covers some of the same ground. Basically, I tried to show symptoms, then get a diagnosis with some level of detail, and then mention more information as the characters found and discussed it, within the context of the story.

MDL, when you said English wasn't your first language, I was surprised You do very well in it.

There may have been more I wanted to comment on, but I'm sleep-deprived and can't remember now what it was :p

PJ

I'd also like to add this to the general melee:

I think it's worth remembering that some of us are better than others at expressing precisely what we mean when using the written word (I'm including myself here, of course!). It's easy to misconstrue what someone is trying to say, or the tone they intend to use, when reading words they may have chosen unwisely or mistakenly.

Bottom line (IMO) - give people the benefit of the doubt and don't jump to conclusions.

BTW, Laura, I'm really proud that the small pieces of advice I offered you have so obviously paid off with your more recent work. You listened, and you learned.

Yvonne

English is not my first language either that is why my vocabuary is limited. I couldn't learn Chinese properly because there was all that diffrent tone of voice that you have to know. One word can mean three diffrent things in Chinese. Like the word Mah; for instance, can mean Mom, mother, horse, or argue. If your tone deaf, you can't learn Chinese. So, I'm neither Chinese or English.

Well, I sort of decided to stick to how Crystal felt about having this disability and don't know rather to make it too techniqual or not. I'm more like leaning towards the non-technical way. I do try to get people to understand this disability because a lot of people with this disability were considered as rude people because they would not respond to a person when called. It looks like as if, I had failed at both tasks. At least that was my goal.

I agree with both Laura, MadDogLane, and Cheif Pam. Both about feelings and the writing.

I don't have a firm opinion. I would not be good in politics.

Though I am at a loss.

I am not even going to try any more beyond this post. I am at the point where I am going to ignore this.

Yeah, if anyone is mad I'm sorry. I'm just writing almost everything that I feel. Delete it if you feel it is not good. I probably should have waited until the morning b/c I have not slept in two days, but I plan on sleeping the next two.

Roo, don't take this the wrong way, but that line just cracked me up.

PJ
who wonders where she can find a purple cat named George...

LOL

side note: I still cannot sleep.

ack go aaaaaawwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaay Roo.

I just have one thing to say now

Sorry, Kitty, I think what we're experiencing here is called "thread drift" -- the topic of conversation has, ahem, progressed, to the point where it really hasn't got anything to do with the original point of the thread. I suspect it's about played out now, though.

If anyone wants to continue to debate the merits of fanfic critique, or whatever, that's what our Fanfic Related section is there for

PJ