Okay, fine, so I might have accidentally refreshed the board in time to see "the motion carries" in the last FDK thread :p

Anyway, moving on. Are you serious about this, Sue? You're going to alter the future to get them together in the past?

Michael

And then what's stopping you from posting 10, say now? Or later today at the very least?

I'm just... I don't even know what to say except - GET BACK HERE!
Carol

Oy vey. I think my head hurts. I love time travel, but it's too early in the morning to process this.

I'm pretty sure part 10 will be the only cure for my headache/confusion.

Ah, I get it! Very interesting concept. I'm liking this.

Oh, and I agree with Carol. There's nothing to stop you from posting part 10 right about... now.

Okay - I've been pondering it a bit and I won't pretend to claim that I might not have misunderstood something that Wells said...

But as I get it... When Lois goes back, Flois and Flark will just disappear? Get caught in the 'poof' as it were.

So is Clark going to say leave them where they are? Or does the universe implode if they do that? /me isn't quite sure

But that seems like the best plan maybe from Clark's POV [assuming there's no universe exploding] even if it means that he and Plois won't ever have kids - I think this Plois would be more okay with that than Flois because Flois had to grow into it and Plois hasn't yet and wouldn't the same way knowing that it wasn't possible - doesn't mean adoption wouldn't be an option but...

Anyway - that's if there's no universe implosions of course...

And yes, Flark, you most likely would have been sleeping with Plois in your arms if you hadn't taken off...

So, part 10, today right?
Carol

No wonder you started that part by hiding behind a wall!

Apparently all it takes is a motion to get Sue to post (it worked last time anyway), so I move for part 10 now.

I'm not sure I entirely understand the intricacies of the time travel, but I'm waiting for the last part before I try to unravel it all in my head. So don't leave me in this cognitive uncertainty!

You are working on something else after this, right?!

Amber

Seconded!

Truly evil, Sue. I love it. What a great idea. And hey, you could build on the universe you create, as it would be all new!

Love this story, as I love all of your stories. POST PART 10 SOON!!

Adele

Very smart! Definitely thinking outside the box!

Where's part 10?

I go away from the fandom for a year and miss a Sue story. Gah!


*puts this on her list*

Totally reading this thing tonight when I get back home.

Ehhrrrmmm. Sue, do you know that I always hated Star Wars? And do you know why? It was because Darth Vader blew up Princess Leia's planet - her PLANET!!!!!!!! - and everybody, not least Leia herself, acted as if it was not that big a deal. After I had seen that movie, I walked out of the movie theater and looked around. What if someone had blown up my planet just so that they could have a bit of an adventure? I mean, imagine what would be gone. The Statue of Liberty - check. Yellowstone - check. The Grand Canyon - check. Hawaii - check. Ankor Wat - check. Slottsparken here in Malmö, which looks so absolutely lovely in spring - check. My favorite ice cream bar here in Malmö, and everybody else's favorite ice cream bar in whatever country they live in - check. All the puppies and kittens in the world - check. Little kiddies playing with kites like Charlie Brown and the boys in "The Kite Runner" - check. The blue sky and the blue seas and all the sailing boats sailing the seven seas and all the little fishies swimming in them, and the Great Barrier Reef - my goodness, when you start thinking of all that would be lost if your planet was lost, your head starts spinning, doesn't it?

And you, Sue, you are about to erase an entire timeline? Ummm. That means, if I get you correctly, that you are going to erase, wipe out, implode not only the Earth of that timeline, not just everything and everyone that exists on that Earth, but in fact the universe belonging to that timeline, too. Sue, I believe you are about to commit timeline-specific spacetime-cide, and I take exception to that, being an astronomy fan.



Don't kill the universe!

Ah well. I guess that all those people who loved Star Wars thought that the loss of Princess Leia's planet was worth it. And, I guess, what is the loss of one timeline-specific universe if the sacrificing of it leads to the creation in another universe of Utopia? Better to have one utopic universe than two mediocre ones, right? Particularly if the two are really one, so that the killing of one is naught but the killing of the potential of a mediocre universe to remain mediocre. In other words, the wiping-out a universe basically doesn't happen. Though I have to wonder... where do you get the energy to create the universe which you are wipe out down to the last molecule, electron, quark and string?



Ann

Wait! I just thought of something!

Wells was basically asking Flark's permission to destroy Flark, Fetropolis and Fearth. Either that, or else both timelines would be destroyed, so that there would be no Lois and Clark anywhere - make that anywhen.

Okay, but what about Lois? I mean, what about Plois? If she goes back and Flois stays, then there will be two Loises in one timeline, and catastrophe will ensue. (Surely two Loises is more than one universe can cope with.) But what if Plois goes back and Flois is sent back, too, or rather Flois is sent forward - only she is sent forward to nothing? Because her timeline imploded when Plois returned? So that Flois will implode herself when she goes forward?

Can Flark allow that?

Can any Clark say to H. G. Wells, Yes, by all means, fix the timeline so that Utopia can exist, and fix it by killing Lois if you must? Fix it by killing my wife?

No, Lois won't really be killed. Or at least, she will go on existing. Plois will go on existing. But Flois, the woman Flark has been married to for three years, will be killed. The woman Flark has held in his arms almost every night since their wedding, the woman whose heartbeat he has listened to, the woman whose hair he has buried his face in, the woman he has caressed...Can he just say to H.G. Wells, Yes, kill Lois by all means?

Can he?

Maybe he has to, if that is the only way for him to save any Lois. Still... doing so would be so not Clark.

Ann

Wow. Brilliant. Time travel creates never ending circles. Love it!.
BUT Flark and Flois will not be killed - well, they will eventually be if they leave things as they are.. It is only the current version of the future that will obviously change when the Lois's are changed back In fact the new altered future might be really good - I mean, Plark and Plois would have married a lot sooner, without a lot of the angst, and will have had children already - so the new future will have none of the horrid memories, including the one that they cannot have children.
Oh, BRING ON NUMBER 10 - I'm getting quite excited here.

ps. It is *really* weird writing Plark, Plois, Flark, Flois. LOL

I agree. I'm always confused as to what letter to capitalize after putting the p/f before each of their names. Perhaps we need a book of grammar standards for this story?

Back to the chapter. I read the chapter this morning, after I got up, and I was confused, so I thought, perhaps I was sleepy, and I would try again later this afternoon. However, after re-reading it again, several times, I think I'm still confused.

My understanding is exactly the same as Carol's. Lois can't go back to her time cause the universe will explode. Secondly, if Flark and Plois get together, things will be ok, but they won't be able to have children. I didn't get how Utopia will be maintained, however, without Superman descendants.

One more question, if things remain as is, will Flark and Flois still remember their futures as they've occurred to date? Or would the switch nullify the future as it had happened?

Sorry, for all the questions, I'm just wondering out loud I guess. Looking forward to the next part. If I'm still lost, though, could you post a dumbed-down version for me? I would have apparently failed grade 2 if I lived in China, based on my inability to pass the leap frog test (see the Off Topics folder). Go easy on me, won't you Sue?

grinch

Ann, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Leia's whole planet - nearly everyone she knew and loved, all the places around which she'd grown up - were gone forever, and she didn't even cry! That experience should have either pushed her into a catatonic state or enraged her beyond recovery. But everyone treated it like someone bulldozed a local park. "Oh, well, we have lots of other planets in the Republic. We'll just go on vacation somewhere else this year." I liked the movie overall, but I've always thought that was a problem Leia never dealt with.

They have to get past-Lois (I just can't type Pl - P - Plo - sorry!) in on this decision. I think Wells is wrong, that leaving things as they are (with Loises swapped out) would create a second timeline, not destroy everything. The worst it would do would be to overlay the current reality with the altered one. Of course, that presupposes that bringing Lois back to the past from a future which no longer exists won't do something hinky to the timeline.

Eww. I hate temporal mechanics.

And what is Wells doing? What is the arrogant little idiot thinking? If Utopia is dependent on Clark and Lois having kids and the only way to fix that is to kill Luthor way earlier, and he knows that there really is a Utopia, then isn't he fixing an altered timeline? Why couldn't he just whack Luthor himself? It's not that much different from deliberately setting the events in motion which would kill him.

And what will the time cops do to him when they find out what he's up to? What actions might they take to "fix" the timeline yet again? Are we going to see a quantum leap (sorry!) in the number of possible universes, all branching out from 1993?

I'm not sure that past-Clark would want to be married to past-Lois now. He's just proposed to future-Lois and she's accepted. Doesn't that cheapen their love for each other if he's playing with their hearts like it's a game of jacks?

Fascinating concept. Very well executed. Engaging story. Post the last chapter already!

Then I'm going to find Wells and punch him right in the mouth. Hard!

so i'm a bit confused. if things stay as they are right now, would kids just pop into Clark's life in 1998 or will there be 2 life-lines or whatever? i'm getting a headache....

oh that was quite the brain twister! Lovet this fic sooo much!

OMG! OMG! OMG!

One of the scariest things about posting this part is that no one else had read it first. So, if this part was confusing, I apologize profusely.

The key to understanding why Wells did what he did (aside from the fact that he's an interfering busybody) is to accept one important thing: the characters are not separate entities, but really are the same people. It's probably time to stop referring to them as Flark/Plark/Flois/Plois (which was only what my early beta, alcyone, called them to stave off confusion). Over the course of the story, while they might be in different times, they were never different/separate people. They are, and always were, simply Clark and Lois.

There's no way that the whole planet blows up! I never suggested that having Lois return to 1995 was going to annihilate anything but every stupid plot twist from the series that I, personally, have long despised with every fiber of my being. The only thing that changes if Lois returns to 1995 is that there is no clone arc, very little NK action and the possibility of children. True, the future that the older Clark currently inhabits changes, but it certainly doesn't utterly disappear. He still has a future, it just might be different.

Thank you so much for sticking with me to this point. I hope Wells' logic makes a little more sense now. He will elaborate a tiny bit more in the next part, but maybe I should change that to be more clear.

Ah, I get it, Sue! You are committing plot-twist-cide instead of timeline-specific universe-cide. That's reassuring, not least because your energy budget can be so much smaller when you are doing away with plot twists rather than creating a whole new universe, juggling two universes for a while and then destroying the universe that has gone plot-twist-bad!

(I guess I read this part the way I did because I've never gotten over a book I read at least twenty years ago where some scientists try to save a dying Earth by sending a message to the past, pleading with the people of the past to make certain changes in their behavior and decisions. The message reaches its intended addressees who wisely change their behaviour and save themselves, but this does not bring salvation to the poor future-fellas who sent the desperate message to the past. Instead the entire universe clones itself and branches into two, so that there are now two timelines where there used to be one, and indeed two universes where there used to be one. By sending that message into the past and having it received the scientists did not save their own timeline, but they did create a entirely new timeline with a fringe benefit extra universe in tow, where everyone belonging to that universe really was saved!!!)



Two universes for the price of one? Where do you get the energy to create a whole new extra universe?

I'm glad you are more energy conservative, Sue, so that you didn't create an extra universe just to be able to destroy the faulty one when you were done. But I, too, certainly look forward to a slightly made-over LnC universe where Lois didn't accept Lex's proposal! Where Clark didn't break up with Lois for her own good! Where Clark didn't choose Zara over Lois, however temporarily, just so that he could have his family jewels scrambled! Where Lois didn't get herself replaced by a clone just as Clark was marrying her!

Okay, looking forward to part 10! It's going to be interesting to see Plois and Plark - all right, 1995 Lois and 1995 Clark - meet again after they have gotten to know the 1998 versions of each other!

Ann

I love this explanation. It works so well.

Quote

"There can be no Utopia without your children, that is, the natural children of you and Ms. Lane."

Clark flushed and looked away. "Then there isn't going to be a Utopia. We can't have children."

"Not in this future, no. But in the past, with Mr. Luthor dead, there is no one to stand in the way of you and Ms. Lane marrying. And, if you are married prior to the New Kryptonians arriving on this planet, well, they will not compel you to join them. In fact, they will abandon this planet and you as lost causes and move on. When your people placed you in that molecular disruptor, Mr. Kent, you were temporarily, uh, disrupted. Yes, the process was reversed, but not everything was entirely restored. Were you never to be disrupted, you and Ms. Lane would have been able to have children."

What a shock for Clark - to know that once, he and Lois could have had children. And now, they can ... in another time line.

Oh so very true, Sue. But I guess that's always the problem with time travel. What's your point of reference? For instance, think what could happen if Wells got them together in college, before Lois got burned by Paul. They could already be together happily ever after.

Only there is one small issue there. What about the rest of the world. How many children will not be born because of the changes. Sure, they probably get replaced by different ones, But just the fact that Mayson stays alive can mean that one family won't find each other and Mayson will have the kids instead. And what about NK? Will it mean civil war and tons of deaths?

Which basically is the problem. You change the past, you change people's lives in the future. And the only consolation you have is your point of reference. LnC will still be there. Utopia can happen. But not everybody will come out ahead

Not that I'm saying 'don't snip the timeline', just saying, maybe the future shown in S3 and s4 was the twisted timeline that had to be rectified

So, part 10? Still waiting

Michael

So it could kind of be like Frequency where everything just changes around him?

more later...

Very cool part, and I was right in thinking that somethings would be totally unexpected, like in the beginning, it was Clark with whom Wells was talking.

And the stopgap theory... cool!

I absolutely loved all your plot untwists, especially their apparent inability to procreate.. wow! mind boggling!

Wow I didn't see that coming! I love it! What a crazy and wonderful theory! Laura

I'm having a major OMG! moment. I just read the entire story and the audaciousness of it all leaves me speechless. I am still soaking it all in so I don’t have a feel for where it is going yet.

My read is that based on what Wells says, if he leaves things as they are, the universe will collapse. Personally, I see a split timeline.

1. Leave the Lois’s where they are any you have one kid of split.
2. Put them back and you have a different split.

Of course, you may put them back and the universe implodes anyway.

Finally, what if the switch makes everything worse instead of better? You might poof a perfectly good future just to have the alternate time line that overlays it be worse than the one you started with.

Time line meddling can be hazardous to your (and everyone else’s) health!

Bob

When the timelines split, will future Lois and Clark know that they are reliving things though, or will the future they know, vanish as well? (kind of like that memory zapper thing in Men in Black?)

Time travel stories are so fun, but I'm a curious person, and they often make my head hurt, cause I think of loads of questions that need answers...

Wouldn't it be nice if Flark (okay, 1998 Clark) wakes up in the morning, feeling disoriented and sad because he can't give Lois children. And suddenly the world seems to wink out just momentarily all around him, and then it comes back (you know, like a power outage where the power is restored almost immediately) and then Lois comes walking into their bedroom, holding their baby in her arms?

Ann

So 10 is coming... when exactly?!

Or maybe he will have a couple toddlers climb on the bed. I'm looking forward to seeing how this ends.

Yeah when will 10 be here?

Ditto to pretty much everyone else! And this:

Is ridiculously original and gets the Really Freaking Interesting Award for tonight.

Great part,
JD

I confess, seeing this much FDK, while it is unbelievably exhilarating, also has me doing a little bit of this

Hey, if you'd gotten it to me last night you'd have it back already! And if you get it to me today, you'll likely have it back within the hour. Tomorrow, however, I'm gone till 4 and can make no such promises...

And I specifically didn't hint last night though I could have!

Carol [who accepts *NO* blame]

Sue, all I can say is that when you are finished with this story and it has stopped echoing in your head (or at least started echoing more quietly), you have *got* to come read Foreshadowing, etc. I won't put a spoiler here, but I will say that the similarities and the differences are almost creepy. We could have a two-woman comparative literature class with just these stories.

Great Part Sue!
I'm still a bit confused about the time travel and the alteration of 1998 so I hope that the last part will be on soon so I don't have to wonder anymore
I liked it that you saved Mayson because I liked her.

I'm late for this feedback train, but since you haven't posted part 10 yet, I'll go ahead anyway.

I loved this part and wholeheartedly support Jen's "Really Freaking Interesting Award" for originality. Using the NK disruptor as a Utopia killer is quite brilliant.

Like others, it makes me want to slap Herbie upside the head, though. Let's see... go back in time and get some of the super-swimmers before the NK invasion so that future Lois can get pregnant...

OR...

Destroy the universe as we know it by changing the timeline and then ... ONLY THEN ... asking just one of the 7-8 billion people affected if that's okay.

:rolleyes:

Of course, I also have to ask this... If future Lois marries past Clark and gets immediately pregnant, then if Wells switches them back, future Lois and future Clark could also have a natural child together.

Of course, past Lois and past Clark would have to deal with the consequences, but hey, they've got time now that Lex is dead, right? Isn't that what Wells was trying to do?

When are we getting the last chapter?

Ummmm... Sue?



Ann

To quote Ron from Kim Possible

Alas, I cannot blame Carol (who has nudged me consistently) for the delay. I have to plead that RL issues are sucking up my time, as well as my private meltdown that either the story was too complicated and/or too obvious/identical to other stories.

HappyGirl - I think you'd have to include at least three other authors if you're going to do a comparative reading. I stated at the outset in my author's notes that I got the idea for a switcheroo from RodStewFan and Kipp's "Switch" (an nfic) and Kipp's sequel "Not Again" (also nfic). Last summer when I was telling a group of FoLC's about the story I was working on, I was informed that zoomway wrote one as well (sorry, I don't know the title).

Kathryn - I've been reworking 10 to try and make it crystal clear what's going on. Hopefully you won't be confused after that.

Brenda! - You're right -- I've been dawdling all this time in the hopes that you'd come back. :p Seriously, I'm thrilled/relieved/delighted to find out that you're still reading.

Ann - Soon! I'm hoping to have time tonight. <fingers crossed>

dcarson - Very true - but it's the disturbing concepts that make it so fun.

I apologize both for the delay and for attempting to write without a beta. I see now that what made perfect sense in my mind really should have been reviewed by a sentient being first. Mea culpa!

No No Sue! Forget your doubts, the other similar stories and trust yourself. Just let it roll, babe!
Readers are intelligent enough to like similar stories and appreciate their differences. You're rethinking it too hard. Heck, we'll *all* beta for you!

Artemis
p.s. I thought the explanation with the NK molecule disruptor was original and very cool (if sad for LnC)

Just post the thing and put us out of your misery!

James

Yes, Sue, please don't worry about the other stories. I think it's fun to see how different minds take the same problems in different directions. Now I'll have to go find those other stories you mentioned. I'll have to wait till the kids are in bed tonight to check the nfic archives though

Feel free to confuse me everytime you want with another good story.
It is the time travel that is so complicated. I'm looking froward to part 10

Sue,

I haven't had time to read and follow much on the boards lately, but I'm coming out of my recent lurkdom to show my support for your story. I have been anxiously awaiting the final chapter. I check back every day or so hoping you've posted it. Regardless of what other stories out there may resemble yours, I'm currently hooked. So please take some hints from us and get 10 posted!

I have to say, I don't remember being so confused when I read part 9. Reading the comments, I wonder if maybe my mind glossed over the intricacies of time travel in order to more fully enjoy the basics of the story. Once its finished, I might have to reread it all to see if I actually understand what's happening.

And I fully agree with the "Really Freaking Interesting Award." Did not see that coming and I'm surprised after so many years it has not been even close to being brought up. Sue, you have such an imaginative mind! I love it!

Can't wait for the last part! And hello to everyone, its been quite awhile!

~Kristen

Sue, you know there aren't any truly original storylines any more, don't you? Humanity has been around too long for that, and we are obsessed with telling stories. All the really good ideas have been used already. That doesn't mean that all the stories with much the same plotline are the same stories. Think of it like this. There are millions of chairs out there which serve basically the same function. That doesn't mean they are all the same chair.










(Well, yes, this last thing is supposedly a chair, although I think we've crossed the line into weirdness now...)

Anyway, Sue. Who cares if the plotline of your story seems mildly familiar? Your story is uniquely your own. We need your story! Pleast post it soon!

The idea may not be new, but the snowflake is unique! Please put us out of our misery, Sue!



Ann

Haven't convinced you yet? Well, remember they say that even Shakespeare stole the plot of Hamlet!

I was googling for something resembling 'Knock, knock, Sue, where are you?'. Can't say this image fits the bill, but it's cute, so...



Yes, haz you heard bout ceiling cat, or haz you seen Sue?

Ann

Hi Sue!

I love HG.Wells/Tempus/time traveling fics so when (today in the morning) I read Ricochet was this kind of fic on the Outtakes' post I ran to read it.

It's still today at night :rolleyes: and I'm looking for the 10th part - because as you know the last part was posted on April 28th - and I can't find it!!!!

You promised us the last few parts would be posted in a timely manner. I'm really eager to see how you wrap this story up.

If real life has thrown you a curveball, you're forgiven for the delays. Otherwise, here's some incentive.

<jumps on the bandwaggon>

We're not forgetting you Sue !!!

Sueeeeee where are youuuuuuu?

Artemis

Sue, where is part 10?

Nan

Sue is likely lost in the timeloop started when they tried to reset the timeline.


As a side point I always enjoyed the POV wherein Tempus turned out to be right, the so-called Utopia was destroyed when the Khunds invaded and destroyed Earth, and only the timelines where Tempus won survived.

Also I figure utopeans were clearly POD people. if Lois had lived then she'd have been a Rebel trying to bring down the whole thing.

So maybe Sue can just let H.G. Wells get lost in Time/Space and not reset anything and move on to telling about the Non-Utopia Earth repulsing the Khund invasion.

(((((Sue)))))

Ann

<de-lurking>

Suuuueeeee! You're killing us here! Post part 10 pleeeaaasseeee?!



Hutch

I'm not above begging!

I second that!! Sue, where are you???

Carolyn

I've got cookies...

Bumping this up, again... Sue you're killing us here!!!

Frisbee

And again...

It's torture!

I am anxiously awaiting as well, and hoping that everything is all right.

What's wrong here?! Does anyone know something? Where's Sue???!!!

I believe that Sue has gotten bogged down with work and RL. The last I heard - which was several months ago now - she'd mentioned back in May to the author she was GEing a story for that she had been handed a special project at work that was taking up her time. So, she probably will turn up again at some point.

LabRat