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Monday, Chapters 86 and 87, 10-12amET

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Chapter 86
Chapter 87
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Carol

Okay, before I get all worked up about stupid kids.

Lois put the pillow between them in Smallville after the whole mess. And then she put the pillow between them again in Metropolis saying Clark had put the pillow there back in Smallville?!?!?!?!? WHAT is going on here ????

PS: no snarkiness in here. Just deeply rooted worry.

Not coherent now....

Why can't those kids talk to each other?

Just a thought... why was Christopher crying his eyes out? Had he somehow sensed or heard what happened to Sam???

Ann

Just thought of something from a few days ago: Carol posted this before the whole Pop Pop mess
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And in the parts you've been reading there was that Bad Thing [Pop Pop], and then another Very Bad Thing [Revelation] and the reaction of other people to that Very Bad Thing and then a Could Have Been Bad Thing [Sam's heartattack] and the Might Have Not Been a Totally Bad Thing [???]. That doesn't help someone get over lunkheaded stupidness.<b>[

You're going to leave it there? I've spent this morning catching up on all of the chapters posted this week. I felt a sense of triumph and after surviving the ups and downs of the past week. Now, you're going to make us wait till tomorrow night at 10, to see what you've done with Sam?

It's nice to see Christopher talking and walking about. This story has been about him, and now, we finally see that he is becoming a character in his own right. The whole telepathic vibe that he felt makes me lean towards him being Clark's biological son. I wonder when Clark and Lois are going to talk about that probability? It seems strange that Lois does not want to find out who Chris' biological dad is (maybe she's waiting till the five-year mark winds down). I know she has no clue, but surely, she could ask people at the party if they saw anything.

I'm dreading their two-year anniversary. They are so far apart, that I hope another divorce discussion doesn't come up.

It also seems strange that Lois and Clark ask each other about Christmas gifts. You would think that living together might give them each ideas, but the whole planning each other's gifts, seems very awkward and informal.

Here's to hoping that Sam survives the next chapter.

I second the evil Kerth award going to Carol.

grinch

They was almost there. Then wham! Even the pillow shows up again. That dam pillow!!!
I think Chris knows. It's time to test that theory........
Prefect song for this is Mariah Carey I Stay In Love. Wish i can make videos but can't

What? 10pm? I know, 12am is midnight, but right now I hope that's just supposed to mean 10am-noon.

Michael

Wow, what a mess! At least our suspicion of Chris being Clark's son is now pretty much confirmed. Reminds me of this fanfic story where LnC had a son who had a very strong healing ability, but still it's pretty obvious Chris is not a *normal* child. Super, more likely.

@Michael: Ithink the [???] could be the thing with the kryptonite. Maybe. Although it might refer to something else in the near future (next four to six chapters is my guess.)

Quick clarification -

Neither put that pillow back between them that first night - at least not intentionally. At one point or another, they both think the other one did it.

And I did mean 10am to noon...

Back to fam stuff...
Carol

Okay, how did Lois manage that? And did it happen before, too, that Lois maneuvered the pillow between them by tossing and turning?


Michael <- not happy until they're happy. Or back to pre-pillow at least

Yay, it's 10am not 10pm.

grinch

PS: I'm beginning to think that Lois and Clark could ride off into the sunset if they'd just start talking and get rid of the miscommunications or wrong ideas that each one has. I mean, to think they're not cuddling now just caused a pillow moved. Navance is still out to get them, Sam may have just died, the least they could do to make us readers happy is cuddle. That's not asking a lot is it?

I expected Lois to be upset at Clark because now his whole family knows about Navance.
But she obviously isn't. However, HE really believes she blames him. And he doesn't know what to do about it.

That's a lot of the cause of the distance between them.

I suspect some of the rest of the distance is because of what I said in the last FDK thread, though.
Clark kissed Lois because she was there, she was a woman, and he was feeling low.
Of course now he's still feeling low, but it's a different kink of "low." So he's withdrawing from her. And Lois has lost what little security they had in their relationship.

In the previous FDK thread, Carol said this about who told the media about Lois, Clark and Chris:

Interesting. So if Clark is going to choose Lois over Lana, he is going to have to do it because he loves Lois and can't live without her, not because Lana is so bad that that he can't live with her.

And I hate that pillow! It reminds me of the sword that Tristan and Isolde sometimes placed between themselves at night to stop themselves from having illicit sex, since Isolde was already married to King Marc.



King Marc looking down unhappily on Tristan and Isolde.

Anyway, that pillow.... Can't somebody murder it for me?



Ann

Ann said this about one of Carol's posts:

In my opinion, that makes it a better story.

When I first started reading this story, I admit, I WANTED it to be Lana's fault that she and Clark broke up. I didn't want Clark to be the bad guy, and it's easy to villianize Lana for that reason. It's also been quite popular in fandom to villianize her simply because she isn't Lois but she was supposed to be Clark's first girlfriend.

But looking at it now, I like it that Lana isn't a bad person at that it wasn't her fault about her and Clark. It makes Clark's choice more realistic and more "true" to his heart. His choice, ulitimately, is less forced. (Although like I've said before, I still wonder what Lana thinks of aliens... That would certainly have an effect on her relationship with Clark!)

Oh, and I had wanted to comment on Ann's post in the previous feedback thread, which also dicusses Lana.

I don't mean to pick a fight with you, Ann, but I disagree with this.

I think that is really belittling Clark to assume he is that shallow, first of all.
I also don't see the evidence for it.

In the first place, objectively speaking, I don't think Lana or Lois are more attractive than the other. Lana tells Clark point-blank that she is worried about Lois being his roommate because she IS A BEUATIFUL WOMAN. Clark acknowledges this to Lois. Certainly Lana is blond and Lois has brown hair. But does that make one more beautiful than the other? (I admit some men have preferences, but still...)
Lois has probably fulled out some since having a baby, but Clark doesn't seem to think that makes her unattractive.
To conclude, if he was only interested in Lana's looks, there would be no reason why he wouldn't decide to "hook up with Lois" once he marries her. Because she's beautiful as well. So why not bed the woman he's with?

Furthermore, earlier in the story, there were these passages, So Clark loved Lana because she was good with kids. Sounds like a good reason to me.

And this So she got a scholarship. She's smart. And he's proud of her for that, and for what she wants to do with her life. Sounds like another good reason to love Lana.

After he and Lois got married, when he was still wallowing for her, there was also this
So she had been his best friend for along time. Sounds like another good reason to love her.

Let me clarify, however. I do agree with you that Lana can be spiteful. I write that off as an eighteen-year old girl who believes she was betrayed by the man she wanted to marry. Still, that is a problem with her.

And that's one reason why I don't think Clark and Lana belong together. I want Lois and Clark together just like any other FoLC. One of the main reasons why I love the show and fic, is because I love their relationship.

But assuming that Clark loved Lana just because of her looks is belittling him and a long time relationship he believed would last a lifetime, and had reasons for believing that.

YES

A much better way to discover Chris is half kryptonian than tossing a piano.

Gotta chime in here. I agree with a little bit of both of you, Ann and Sara.

This commitment thing here is a huge reason, IMO. Don't know about the rest of you, but it's pretty darn hard to throw away a relationship after multiple years of commitment (and I'm just talking about regular relationships that run their course, or even friendships, but in Clark's case, the Sometimes Crappy Things Happen To Good People aka life). Or a long-term investment in anything, really. You don't realize how much of yourself you put into something until it ends, and unfortunately Clark hasn't handled it well at times (probably the understatement of the week), and...I totally lost my train of thought because I leaned back to think and got lost in my complete lack of housekeeping underneath my headboard. OH, but it seems reasonable for him to take a long time to get over it; unfortunately, it's at the expense of Lois, and that's what makes him a dolt in my mind.

Man, I was hoping this Christmas wouldn't blow as much as the last one did...like they might actually care what they get each other...hopes and dreams down the tube to be saved for the AA group!

Great parts,
JD

Thanks, Jenn!

Yes, that's what I meant, actually. Yes, I do think that Clark is infatuated with Lana's looks, but his own commitment to her is more important to him than her looks. I think Clark is like that: when he has made a commitment, it is, excuse me for my choice of adjective, deadly serious. It is not something he can throw away or turn his back on. When Clark is pining for Lana, I think it is his own commitment to her that he misses the most. He is actually pining for himself, the way he used to be.

On the other hand(!), when Clark jumped on that plane with Lois, I think he made a choice between her and Lana, and he chose Lois. That is how I see it.

But before Clark can wrap his mind around the idea that he is going to be with Lois, he will have to redefine himself. He will have to say goodbye to Clark-who-promised-the-Heavens-that-he-would-always-be-faithful-to-Lana and accept that he is in fact Clark-who-has-already-been unfaithful-to-Lana-and-fathered-a-child-with-Lois. And he will have to embrace himself as Clark-who-loves-Lois.

Ann

I've read through this as I had time throughout the day .

This was something that's been key to me. When the Navance thing ends, if Lana is evil or dead or married or something, then Clark's 'choice' isn't a 'choice' at all. And I don't think Lois would accept that either - 'winning' by default. I 'talked' it out with my betas in detail - whether you guys will like what we came up with or not may be up for grabs but... I have to stay 'true to the characters' too. For Clark to have married Lois and promptly forgotten about Lana wouldn't have been true to character [as someone mentioned above] and neither would Lois accepting 'winning' by default, even if she is in love with him.

Anyway - back to the grindstone - need to get at least part of the next chapter pounded out before bed...

Should have time to respond more tomorrow.
Carol

I still think your Clark is holding on to his Lana fantasy so hard because he does not want to admit to himself that he fell for Lois at first sight.

I think it's time the cabin works its magic again... When these mules are in this stage, just being locked together away from everything will make them talk. Happily Sam's already providing their confinement... er... romantic getaway.

And the cabin would be the perfect place to talk about Christopher's paternity. After all, everything started there.

Andreia (checking the boards every five minutes ) Addicted, me? Nah...

Oh dearie me! Is Lois going back into depression.. If she does, I just hope Clark realizes that, and not just wallow in his misery..

How much longer til 10...? :rolleyes:

I'm glad that at least Danielle didn't mean to snub Lois!

But I'm kind of surprised that no one in the family mentioned the part about "Clark Kent is *not* the father of Lois Kent's baby." They've of course decided to deny that part, but I'd like to know what their responses are, even if it's a simple "that's patently ridiculous." It would be worthwhile to see them squirm.

Well technically she's been in depression since Chris' birth. In one of the last chapters, Lois mentioned that she should be mindful of certain triggers to her depression. Sam's health or death may severely worsen it.

In this story, I've always thought that although Clark signed the marriage certificate with Lois, he's been mentally married and committed to Lana. It is this commitment that makes him constantly wonder whether Lana will take him back after the 5-year mark. In his head, Clark believes he is being faithful to Lana (even if the circumstances are a bit unusual), so it is this behaviour that keeps him going.

Lois said it best that she only wants Clark to kiss her if he wants to kiss her. In other words, she doesn't want to be Lana's substitute. I agree with this sentiment. For the bond to break between Clark and Lana, two things could happen: (1) Lana could die, Clark would grieve, and they maybe open his eyes to what's been in front of him this whole time; or (2) Lana and Clark need a falling out. This falling out could be related to him being an alien and her not approving, or it could be that Lana told the media about Clark not being Chris' biological father.

It maybe just me, but I can't see Clark and Lois building a solid relationship foundation without dealing with the third wheel of their marriage, Lana.

Okay - I'm going to try to do this justice... We'll see if I succeed .

Michael - As I mentioned earlier, both thinks the other put it there when in reality it was incidental - and it's not the pillow itself as much as it is what it represents - distance between them. Hehe - I loved the Ziva thing too.

Ann - awwww! Though I see you posted more later [complete with illustrations] so you must be coherent in a bit .

Michael [again] - you got the first 2 right, you're assuming Sam's heart attack isn't fatal if it's the 'Could Have Been Bad Thing' - you'll have to see on that one..

Grinch - hehe - at least you didn't have to wait between the others? The possibility that Christopher is Clark's son will come up in conversation at some point [and not when I'd planned either /sigh/ silly characters].

lovesuper - Don't know that song - may have to go find it...

Lara - kryptonite is a good guess , but no. You'll see...

Sara - they're withdrawing from each other - never a good thing when they need to be looking towards each other...

Ann [again] - see my note above about Clark's 'choice'.

Sara - you're right - it's easy to villianize Lana and that was one thing I didn't want. Yes, she's been petty and vindictive, but she's also an insecure 18 year old [probably 20 now] who had the rug that was her life's plan completely jerked out from underneath her. Thank you for finding quotes to help make that argument for me .

Framework - piano tossing... that could be fun .

JD - Very good points about commitment. As for Christmas... there's quite a bit that's going to happen before then - starting 'today'.

Ann - I know what you mean by unfaithful to Lana there, but I guess I still have a hard time thinking of it in those terms. While technically accurate, there was no intent and no conscious decision made and no *real* memory of the event [and I don't mean in the 'it just sort of *happened*' excuse sense]. They were hypothermic, near death, and it just happened. That made sense in my head...

Andreia - it's coming! Promise! The next post anyway - locked in the cabin? Not sure when they go back there actually...

Mish - it's coming!

Amy - yeah that was something I wanted to point out - she didn't mean to snub Lois. My thinking is that they don't believe the 'Clark isn't that Dad' thing given the 'source' of the claim [directly or indirectly, it's Navance because he's the one claiming to be the father whether he was the source of the leak or not].

Grinch - you're right there and that will be discussed again. That's a good point - there will have to be a falling out of some kind between them before Clark can ever think about moving on with Lois - if he does.

BBIAF to post...

I think that this has been the most frustrating "two steps back" slide, but I'm aware that it's probably because it is the most recent. I'm sure that I felt a similar frustration with the earlier slides as well. We were finally going somewhere! They were getting closer, enjoying the cuddle-age... and then bam. *sigh*

They keep *not talking* and I want to hit them both with a megaphone. It shouldn't have to wait until anniversary at the cabin to make some progress. They seem to be stuck in a game of Frogger and never making it across the street! Hop forward, hop back, hop back, hop forward.

I'm glad that we are seeing more of Christopher. It felt that for a while there we were only going to be told about him and miss his formative years. He'll be two soon and we don't have a handle on his personality. One of the things that amaze me about babies is that they are their own little people and you can tell that about them almost right away.

I agree with the comments about Clark's commitment to his commitment. I really think that it's one of the reasons he's holding on so hard to the Lana of his mind. She's done everything in her power to encourage (probably not the way she'd put it) him to move on, but he still holds out for the 'maybe she'll take me back' scenario. At this point, I'm not sure what it will take to make Clark mentally break the connection... Every time he does his AU step back, I lose hope that he ever will--and that he'll even be worthy of Lois and Christopher after he mentally lets Lana go. I realize that he's been a great father (the physical), and he's doing better about accepting his life and being happy (emotional), but the mental is a huge part of it all.

I'm concerned about Lois's depression--she isn't talking to anyone. Maybe she begins to talk to Clark (spec from the previews). She can't tell him everything that's going on in her head, but releasing some of those emotions could work like a pressure valve.

Great emotional parts! Here's to hoping that it's time for a few steps forward

~s

I get it, Carol. Clark's intimacy with Lois was not a 'conscious choice', to speak Wendy-ish. But he was intimate with her, at least if Christopher is indeed his biological son, and I think he has been denying that possibility so adamantly because he just couldn't deal with the possibility that he had been unfaithful to Lana. I agree that Clark was completely blameless under the circumstances, but that's no real consolation if he had promised the Heavens to never, ever, ever have sex with any other woman than his childhood sweetheart, is it?

Ann

I think we're saying the same thing even if we may be coming at it slightly differently.

And yes - Clark may eventually need to deal with it...

Carol