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Interesting discussion about whether rape was what was going on here. Patrick, I'm sorry that you felt you had to delete you comment becasue it has raised some interesting points about how we interpret what we're reading and stimulated some interesting discussion.

I have to admit, as ML's beta, it never crossed my mind about this being rape. I shoould add here that I have probably been one of the more 'vocal' posters on these mbs on issues of harrassment, abuse, etc (etc being a euphemism for ... laugh )

And it did not even cross my mind that this was rape. So, Patrick, you made me think and so thank-you. Btw the way, I also think you can argue semi-rape (yeah, I know, define the term) by Lois here but of course you can argue (as I did in my mind at the time) that instinctively Lois knew where her heart was.

So both Lois and Clark behaving a tad badly but with their hearts, instinctively) in the right place (should that be places?)

It's been quite interesting to read people's discussion on this scene and on memory.

c.

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Oh, I’m late to the party (again.) I’m finding this story, and today’s conversation, interesting partly because of my own personal dislike of the ease with which Lois seemed to fall for other men (Luthor, Scardino, Deter, even, I suppose, Superman). Meanwhile, although Clark was flattered by the attention Mayson gave him, he always knew that he knew that he knew that he loved Lois – even amnesia couldn’t make him forget *that*. I really hated that amnesia made Lois forget her feelings for Clark. Even though I am aware that Lois forgetting her love is more realistic than Clark remembering his, in the Lois and Clark world they are “soul mates” and I always wished the episodes of Lois’s amnesia had been written differently.

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Her mind might not be willing to recognize her feelings for him, but her body most certainly had.
In the show, even though Lois did not remember Clark, did not remember loving Clark, and did not respond to anything Clark said, she DID respond to one thing: Clark’s kiss. When Clark kisses her on the sidewalk, the script says “She’s startled, then succumbs.” She later tells Deter, “I felt something. Something more than just partners.”

I actually like the explanation about the sense of smell (along with, I suppose, other sensory memories related to sight, touch, and even sound). Add to that the memories, partial memories, and even false memories, and I find Lois’s actions quite plausible.

Speaking of memories, partial memories, and false memories, I was jumping up and down at the fact that I DID remember the “my heart belongs to another man” line.

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It had taken all of his powers of persuasion to convince her that […] neither Clark nor Lois had stripped down to their underwear in order to show each other their various battle scars - that what she was remembering was from Lethal Weapon 3, which they had watched one evening while working on that story.
LOL. One of the funniest bits of dialog on the TV show comes from this very episode:

LOIS: […H]ow does the chariot race fit it?
CLARK: The what?
LOIS: The chariot race. Some guy had spikes in his spokes and tore up some other guy's wheels.
CLARK: Uh, that's a Charlton Heston movie, Lois...
DETER: 'The Ten Commandments'.
CLARK: 'Ben-Hur'.
LOIS: Who Her?
CLARK: Ben.
DETER: No, 'Ten --'
LOIS: Ben...?
CLARK: ... Hur.
LOIS: Her what?
DETER: -- 'Commandments'.
LOIS:'Her Commandments?'
DETER(to Clark): You see what you've done? You've confused her.
CLARK (to Lois): The chariot race is 'Ben Hur,' the Red Sea is 'Ten Commandments,' and neither one actually happened to you. LOIS: But Soylent Green is people, right?
-----
LOIS: ... so those were all just movies, even where the apes are chasing him through a cornfield? (both men nod) But Charlton Heston _was_ President.
DETER (to Clark): You see what this is doing to her?
CLARK: Actually, she's right. In an alternate reality.

So, yes, very realistic having Lois mix up fact and fiction.

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He pulled out what was quite obviously a diamond engagement ring. “And do you remember this?” […] Suddenly, the perfect response came to his query about whether she remembered their engagement came to her. “I do,” she said, raising her hand to allow him to slip the ring onto her finger.
*This* is why I cannot fault Clark for sleeping with Lois. This happened (on the show) after Lois had regained her memory, and serves to emphasis that, in Clark’s mind, that is what has happened here. (Although I have to admit I like the modifications you made, which help to put them on an equal footing rather than having a captor/captive relationship.)

Looking forward to MORE!


"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution" - Daniel Webster
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Add-on FDK:

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Almost instantly, Clark turn his back towards her.

“I’m sorry. I didn’t realize you’d be... I mean, I guess I didn’t think that you...”
"...would be naked. I mean nine. Erm... naked. Um..."

I've been thinking about rape/not rape while FDKing yesterday and came up with it could be argued but it's not really arguable. My reasoning was that new Lois used old Lois's body to have sex with Clark. So, will old Lois feel violated when she gets back? huh

On a different note: You mentioned it was several weeks before Lois needed female hygiene products. This leads me to believe that Lois is presently in the fertile part of her cycle. And I don't think Clark packed protection or Lois is on the pill right now, given the whole amnesia muck-up. Unless Deter told her to in preparation for the intensive one-on-one therapy. So, if this were Carol fic, Lois would be 100% pregnant. Am not sure I remember ML fic where this happened but in this situation it just screams mandatory pregnancy to me. But most likely, the fic will end before Lois has a chance to figure it out either way, or even miss her period huh But still, she took an awful risk with her plan.

As for the philosophical question: No idea abut the biology that's going on, but I'd say a lot is derived form the subconscious mind and unless there's heavy duty brain damage involved, the subconscious mind will keep the basic traits and conditioning alive.

In regard to Lois this could of course also mean she finally found a way to fulfill her deepest desires while justifying her reasons to her conscious self. laugh

Michael

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Well, glad I could provoke an interesting discussion. Always love those philosophical questions. Never any answers, only lots of additional questions. laugh

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Philosophy ... great. So skipped out on that and took other subjects instead.
Whereas, I took lots of philosophy classes. Aristotle, Plato, Socreties, the Bible. Even studying ancient Hebrew and classical Greek so that I could read the texts in the original languages. Aaaa... now those were the days. Sitting around, fervently debating everything about nothing. laugh

Always resented the time wasted studying English or Math. How were they going to help me in life? (Sorry, Gerry laugh )

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Think I just confused myself ...
Welcome to most good philosophical discussions. thumbsup

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it’s pretty much the reader’s mind that’s filling in all the dirt
Uhh... you've just described PG-13 laugh

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I still can't quite believe that you did it.
Hey, I did nothing! Lois insisted on heading to the bedroom and, as we all know, where Lois leads, Clark is never far behind. laugh

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I started to think, during Clark's reminisces about the evening, that maybe something had occurred to Lois
Well, good. If you, as the reader, can't see through Lois' motives, it makes it easier to see why Clark couldn't.

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once empathy -- the ability to see things from someone else's point of view -- is really acquired around age six or seven, it is ingrained in the brain in the frontal lobe, separate from memory.
I found that information really interesting, Rac. I didn't know that.

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I buy Lois' actions and even Clark's reactions etc. But YOURS on the other hand...
There you go, blaming me again! How many times do I have to say this. It isn't my fault Lois headed for the bedroom! Surprised me as much as it did you. So don't shoot the messenger.

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I'm wondering where Star's mores lie. What will she determine is best for Lois' wellbeing? Justice under the law? What her vibes tell her? Will she want to see Lois before she decides?
Or maybe she won't be home when Superman drops by. wave


She was in such a good mood she let all the pedestrians in the crosswalk get to safety before taking off again.
- CC Aiken, The Late Great Lois Lane
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