Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: Darkest Dreams 40/?

Yeah!! A new Chapter!!

By the way, I love WAFFy Fluff and you did a great job of it and made it fit well in the middle of all of the darkness. What a nice surprise to see Batman mentioned. <little giggle>

Ahh--another Clark hint. Come on Lois. . . just figure it out so he can stop Sweating about it.

OK, way to many quotes for the next comment so. . .the sun lamp, the cheesecake, the movie, and so much more . . . AAWWWWWWW that's so sweet of Lois (Wait--did I just say that. . . she's going to kill me if it gets out.)

Anyway loved it!!!

BTW--you messed up my morining agian-- I just had a few more min. to write back.

I have to take issue with you, Rachel. This isn't fluff. It's important stuff, vitally important stuff. (By the way, it worked perfectly.) You need to show us how Kal and Lois are progressing in their relationship. You need to show us how easy it is for them to be together. You need to let us know how much each of them loves the other.

And then you can show us how much the truth will hurt Lois.

I'm not one of those who insists that Clark is a lying louse for not telling Lois about Superman so very early in their relationship. I believe that his desire for Lois to love Clark and not be blinded by the flashy suit is perfectly, completely valid, and it points up just how 'human' he really is. He wants to be loved for himself, not for the public image he projects.

But this Clark/Superman has gone past that. Granted, their closeness wasn't his doing; it was a result of the trauma they both endured, and Lois's unselfish heroism in rescuing Superman. But he's allowing the hero to take over his life. He's letting Clark become the construct where Superman hides instead of the hero being Clark's way to help using his powers without sacrificing his personal life. Superman is now in competition with Clark for Lois's affections, and if both men are real beings with real personalities and real depth, she's probably going to choose the hero over the nice guy.

And, perhaps without intending to do so (unless that was your evil plan all along), you've almost guaranteed that Lois won't trust either of them with her heart when she does learn the truth. If Kal-El, whom she all but threatens when he suggests that they not remain close, has lied to her all this time (and yes, this time it really is a lie), then why should she believe anything he says about how he feels, either as Superman or Clark?

This may be the scariest chapter of all.

Hmm, I don't know Terry. I think this Lois will be hurt but I can't see her being mad for long. She has to see how fragile Clark is right now. Think about it:

* You get captured by a gov agency and tortured and then almost die. You're certain someone might try something like this again and are jumping at shadows terrified of the prospect.
* You finally make it home and find your dad is sick and then dies.

He has lost a lot and is very fragile in who he can trust. I can totally see why he is terrified to tell Lois his secret. The one person who understands him and can love him and encourage him to be the man he should be also holds the power to destroy him. I know that term has been used in fics in the past but in this one I think she really does hold that power. All she has to do is abandon him and stop loving him and he will give up hope. She is largely one of the reasons he has gone on.

Once she thinks back on the actions of Clark and Kal-El in given situations, I think she will see that as well. I think this Lois will forgive easier but expect more from Clark.

Then again... I'm not the writer and she tends to do things I don't expect. Guess will have to see what Smirky has in store for us. ^_~

(Loved the chapter smirky )

I agree with Terry. Great chapter - not just fluff. Very important stuff here. I can't see it going well when Lois finds out the truth. However, I think there might be two different reactions depending on circumstances.

If Clark is the one to tell her "Lois, I'm Superman," Lois won't trust him at all. All she will see will be the lies - not the reasons for lies. Her internal opinion of Clark will be the basis for her actions. To her, Clark and Superman are two different people, and her opinion of Clark is rather low.

Now, if Superman was the one to say "Lois, I'm Clark," well, I think her reaction would be different. She would still be mad, and hurt. She might question whether she can believe what he tells her, but her ability to give him another chance will be much higher. She's already forgiven him for taking off on her the first time. She loves Superman. You are always more willing to work with and forgive those whom you love.

Lois won't be able to help super-imposing her feelings and beliefs for the two seperate people of her mind onto whom ever does the revelation. She feels completely different for Clark than she does Superman. I feel the amount of Lois' anger will be regulated by who does the confession.

Obviously, all my $0.02.

Can't wait for the fireworks! We will get there, right? Sometime? Soon? Please?

I'm a latecomer to this story, but I have to admit that I've found myself waiting breathlessly for each new part. (Well, one new part, since I didn't start until part 39 was already out.)

I've enjoyed the depictions of how the trauma both Lois and Clark have affected both their psyches.

I'd expect them to both have nightmares, trouble connecting emotionally to other people. They'd both be jumpy. Trauma committed by other people is harder to deal with than trauma caused by nature.

Given Clark's abilities, it's difficult to do these sorts of stories, but you've pulled it off quite well. Keep up the good work...and soon.

Well, I've got a date in a hour, but I'll drop some quick review to reviews anyway, just because everything that's been said so far is so . . . mmmmmm . . . wonderful!

mervoparkite wrote:
I'm glad you think so! I guess there was a bit of fluff earlier on in the story, but I always get afraid that I'm getting a little *too* fluffy in these sort of chapters. I'm glad it still fit!

<sighs> Yeah. That's poor Clark for us--still going strong despite everything. He has the same strength that he marveled about in Lois--to keep going, no matter what happens.

Heheee. I couldn't help it. There were a lot of things in this chapter that I just couldn't resist slipping in! <little giggle of her own>

I love how protective she gets of him. But . . . you're right--Sh! Lois'll be after us all if she realizes we're talking about how "sweet" she is!

Well, thanks for taking that time! Your review is greatly appreciated and quite brilliant. Thanks you thank you thank you.

Terry Leatherwood wrote:
To tell you the truth, it was my brother who told me that this chapter was complete fluff and had absolutely no plot. I was the one who replied that it was stuff that *had* to happen, and he just rolled his eyes and called it fluff. So I decided a disclaimer was necessary, though I think you're right when you say I exaggerated on the "pure"ness of my fluff. I'm glad you caught the importance.

Terry and jojo_da_crow, you both have some very good points about Lois's possible reactions. I hope you don't mind if I kind of . . . don't give direct responses the main part of your reviews. But do know that they make me think, and that I like the thought and discussion that's going on here. Thanks! It gives me more things to think about.

I hope, however it turns out, that it will be to both of your likings. <crosses fingers>

jojo_da_crow wrote:
I'm unpredictable? Hehee. For some reason it tickles me to hear that. Thanks for reviewing, Jojo!

Er . . . jwb, I may have to kind of skip any response to you too. (Darn it! But I'm keeping an iron chain on the whole revelation for a little while longer). Your review is quite amazing, and I like your whole idea about Clark/Superman. We'll just have to see what happens, eh?

ShayneT.--welcome! It's always quite wonderful to hear from a new reader!

ShayneT. wrote:
lol. Nevertheless, I'm flattered! It's not such a short story anymore, is it?

I'm glad it feels all right to you, as you've just read it. You know, I haven't done any rereading besides looking for little details I've forgotten, but have just been plowing forward chapter by chapter quite blindly. Of course, that's starting to change a bit, but it's still always good to hear that a reader has come, read the whole thing in a relatively short time, and still thinks it flows relatively well.

That's a good point. Poor Lois and Clark!

<blushes> Thanks!

I usually update once a week, quite late on my Thursday night(GMT). Right now I'm plowing forward with all hopes that next week's will be on time. I hope that's "soon" for you!

Thank you all for all your reviews, and sorry this is so rushed. You guys are the greatest.

SmirkyRaven

Hmmmmm. "Fluff" would translate as "WAFF", I suppose. Seeing that quite a few purely WAFFy stories not only get posted here, but they get read and they have praise heaped on them... well, in view of that, I suppose we can take your fluff, Rachel.

Another little tribute to Rachel's love of rain, I suppose!

I've never thought of this. But of course this is what Einstein meant about "spacetime" - namely, that time itself is inseparably connected with space. Move around in space and you will lose connection with the time that used to be your own. (Which is why Star Trek wouldn't work, by the way - these people move across enormous distances at incredible speeds, and still they can, at least sometimes, stay in the same timeframe as the people at Star Fleet Commands, far, far away somewhere. That's impossible.)

Fortunately, for all of Clark's criss-crossing of the globe, he almost certainly hasn't moved at speeds even close to the speed of light, so at the very least he hasn't left Lois thousands of years behind him. But he gets torn loose, at it were, from his natural time zone on the Earth, which is another way of showing how he somehow lacks roots on the Earth. How he is falling upwards, away from the Earth, when he allows himself to drift. And how he needs Lois to anchor him.

I'm glad. He is going to her as Superman.

More rain images! I don't much like rain myself, but I love reading how you write about it!

Hah! I love Lois's incredible coolness and Clark's adoration of her!

Wow. This is such a mysterious paragraph. I can't help it, I get "Jesus vibrations" from Clark again. And here, interestingly, Lois suddenly feels that perhaps she isn't good enough for Clark - eh, for Superman, of course.

Uncertainty. Uncertainty. Where do we go from here?

Oh, wow. I can see Clark as a freezing, dripping little puppy or kitten, hesitantly jumping into the warm, dry, fluffy(!) towel that Lois holds out to him like a mother hen (eh, sorry about the mixed metaphors).

But Clark didn't need the towel!

I love her babbling! And Clark does, too!

I love how she loves him. But she feels that she has to watch her dignity and not get carried away - but of course, Clark sees it all, her elation at seeing and touching him and her attempts at self control.

So moving. This is how Clark has changed, because he gets so deeply shaken at the horror and death he sees after his ordeal at the hands of Luthor and Bureau 39. But this is also how he hasn't changed, because he keeps flying to the disaster sites to help out any way he can.

So beautiful. When I was a kid, I grew up in a religious family, and my religious grandparents kept giving me all these religious books to read. I kept reading a children's version of the Bible, but as much as it fascinated me it troubled me very deeply too, because I was so frightened by this God of fury and vengeance that this kiddie Bible showed me so many times. (For example, there was a picture there of a small Egyptian child who was being eaten alive by insects. The reason that the child was being tortured to death was that God was punishing Pharaoh for enslaving the children of Israel. The cruelty and unfairness of the suffering that God visited on the Egyptian child shook me to the core of my being. When I came across Superman at age twelve, I think I embraced him so fiercely because he was a "god" of goodness and light, not of fury and vengeance.)

How interesting. So this is the difference between Superman and Clark Kent to Clark himself. (Oh, but Clark, there is more to it.)

Interesting. Very interesting. I remember an LnC story where Lois marvelled at Clark's ability to lie smoothly and convincingly to Perry, without missing a beat. In that story, Lois, who didn't know about Clark's Superman identity at the time, asked Clark what else he was lying about. She told him that it takes a lot of practice to lie as well as she had seen him do, and therefore he had to lie about other things, too.

I love the tenderness, the way they care for each other that you show us here.

So beautiful. So lovely.

Oh, so moving. The way you turn those words upside down, change their meaning very suddenly. Because when Lois found those words from Kal-El, scribbled on a piece of paper, they signalled heartache, abandonment, bereavement and farewell. Those words were all that he left her when he disappeared from her apartment and vanished from her life, temporarily at least, when he couldn't deal with Superman.

How beautiful, beautiful this is. You don't use the word "love" at all, but you show us the love between these two people so wonderfully.

Clark - Superman - took so much from Lois when he left her. But he gave her even more when he came back to her.

So beautiful.

I'm very glad he says this to her. And I'm happy about her answer, too.

But you are Superman, Clark.

How lovely.

This is wonderful. They are so comfortable and, well, so happy together. And there are no words to convey what they feel, but there is laughter.

*happy sigh*

He is lying again. *unhappy sigh*

That thing about Lois being an idiot for dismissing Clark like that - she needs to repeat it to herself until she really, truly, finally believes it.

That's true, Clark. She doesn't know you as well as she thinks she does. So it is up to you to change that.

I love the way you write her desperation.

I love how she affects him.

He is stuttering, and it doesn't make Lois angry. When Superman is doing the stuttering, it's all right to her.

Well and good, but this is not what he really needs to tell her about.

Interesting. So you are thinking of Krypton's sun as a red giant, then? To you it an old sun which has ballooned to gigantic proportions as it prepares to die? Personally, I have always thought of Krypton's sun as a red dwarf, a small, light-weight star that shines more feebly than our Sun, and which will not turn into a red giant for trillions of years, if it ever does. But I admit that the science of Supermanology gives us no clue as to which interpretation is the right one!

I always thought that Superman's interview with Lois Lane was so boring, because it didn't answer any of the really important questions. But I concede the point that Clark is making here.

I'm afraid I agree with Clark. We do horrible things because of our fears, but we do great and compassionate things in spite of our fears.

Clark felt guilty, because he didn't think he deserved the praise that Lois heaped on him. He had let fear stop him. But only for a while.

So sweet, so intense. I love the way Clark is speaking to Lois by brushing his thumb over her knuckles.

Interesting and poignant.

Hmmmmm. Why does this sound just so ominous, Rachel?

How true this is.

What a beautiful reason this is for the very existence of Superman, defender of humanity and the Earth.

Do you know how the war in former Yugoslavia started in the 1990s? It was because a Serbian leader, Slobodan Milosovic, reminded his people of how the Serbs had bravely fought the Turks on the Field of Thrushes back in 1389, and because of that, the Serbs now needed to honor the dead Serbs from 1389 by re-drawing the map of the Balkans, by expelling people of the wrong ethnicity from their homes, etcetera. All because of what had happened in 1389.

So, is it Clark's duty to recreate Krypton on the Earth to honor all the dead people on Krypton? Did the dead Serbs from 1389 get happier because of the Balkan wars in the 1990s?

But you aren't being honest with her, are you, Clark? Not in the way that matters.

How sweet this is. And how relaxed they are with each other.

Hmmmm. Physically, this Superman is a lot more like Brandon Routh than he is like Dean Cain. I seem to remember that your Superman has blue eyes, too. (Which is something Brandon Routh hasn't got, but at least he wore blue contacts for his role as Superman!)

I love all of this. How terrible that Clark lost so much weight at the hands of Bureau 39. Now he has regained some of that weight, but only some of it. Lois is horrified to find out, of course, and now she is going to make him eat more cheesecake to fatten him up a little!

Again, I love it, the way they are so comfortable with one another.

He's getting too relaxed, so he's forgetting to lie to her. *unhappy sigh*

What a wonderful ending.

However, this is the bottom line. Clark needs to tell Lois about his double identity. And he needs to tell her as Superman. He knows that Lois trusts Superman in a way she doesn't trust Clark. If he respects her, he will tell her about himself very, very soon, and he will tell her as Superman. The longer he keeps lying, the more he keeps abusing her trust.

I remember that Superman flew away from Lois some chapters ago, and then he returned to Lois as Clark and sat ouside her door for hours. It was heartbreaking to see how she dismissed him as Clark. Even so, I so wish that he had stayed with her as Superman instead of flying away, and that he had revealed his Clark identity before her eyes instead of playing this double identity game with her.

One thing that hurts me, the biggest Lois fan in the world, is that not so few LnC fans seem more irritated at Lois for failing to see through Clark's disguise than angry at Clark for carrying on his deception in the first place. But how can it be the deceived party's duty to see through the lie more than it is the liar's duty to stop lying?

I guess many people find Lois so unbelievably dense for failing to see through Clark's disguise. Hey, we can all see so perfectly clearly that Clark and Superman are the same person. Honestly, it's so obvious! So what is wrong with Lois since she can't see it? Huh? Huh?

But I think our accusations of Lois are at least partly unfair. We can see that Superman and Clark Kent are obviously the same person, so we think that she is galactically stupid for failing to see what we can see. But we have to accept that if Superman is to exist at all, if there really is to be a man who is hiding his amazing superhero persona behind something so flimsy as a pair of glasses and a subtly different hair style, then the laws of physics have to work differently in that universe than they do in ours, purely and simply. The difference is that in Superman's universe, Clark Kent's glasses are a sufficient disguise to hide Superman's identity. They really are. They really, truly change Superman's appearance so much that no one can see that Superman is Clark Kent. Think about it. If Superman existed for real, he would most certainly be the most photographed and filmed person in the world. He would be the most recognizable person in the world. Now, this Superman, whose face is recognized by everyone, works as a reporter at one of the most prestigious newspapers in the world, where he is always surrounded by nosy, sharp-eyed and suspicious people whose ambition in life is to ferret out truths and scandals everywhere. If Superman had existed for real, his cover would have been blown the moment Clark Kent returned to the Daily Planet after he had made his debut as Superman.

Okay. But in Superman's universe, no one can see that Clark Kent is the same person as Superman. Don't ask Lois to see it. Don't ask her to see that Clark Kent is Superman.

I admit it - Lois should be able to figure it out. She should be able to notice that Clark is never around when Superman is seen "live". She should be able to notice that Clark is sick whenever Superman is sick. There are a thosuand little details she should be able to notice. She should figure it out. For all of that, it is Superman's duty to tell her, after all she's done for him. And he should tell her as Superman, not as Clark Kent.

It is time for Superman to come clean with her.

Ann

Well, seeing that I just lost my Pulitzer membership and I can only get it back by posting a lot of new stuff, why not add a new post instead of editing my old one?

Because I was thinking of the ending of this chapter. Lois and Clark, eh, Lois and Superman, fall asleep on Lois's new couch together while watching The Scarlet Pimpernel. Which is about a man who leads a double life, who is an amazing hero, but who in "real life" is this silly fop who just irritates his wife. Who doesn't know about her husband's double life... hmmm... wait a minute. Lois has two men in her life... and one of them, the non-heroic one, is so completely irritating. But he is strange, too... you can't figure him out... wait... wait... there is a momentous truth to be found here someplace, isn't there? Like, say in Lois's dream? About the Scarlet Pimpernel? Who wears a scarlet cape - I didn't know that! - but also blue spandex for some reason.

Imagine Lois slowly waking up from such a dream, where she is only half-awake, and suddenly looking straight into the totally "innocent" and "open" face of Kal-El, sleeping next to her. Suppose the movie, right then, shows how the Scarlet Pimpernel's wife suddenly finds out about her husband's identity....

How about it, Rachel? Huh? Huh?

Ann (who just hit 1881 posts - only 119 left to go for a Pulitzer)

JoJo and others have come up with a different interpretation on Lois's probable reaction to the news that Clark and Superman are the same person. I don't disagree that she would probably be less angry if "Superman" made the confession than it "Clark" made it, but it points up something I touched on earlier. In this story, the Clark persona is taking a backseat to the Superman persona, especially in relation to Lois. Superman has become the dominant personality where Lois is concerned, so naturally Lois is going to get closer to him. Another poster mentioned that Clark seems to have channelled all of his geekiness and fear and insecurities into the Clark persona, and that's a large part of the reason that I agree that Lois would probably go ballistic at Clark but would probably be disappointed in Superman when either of them tells her the truth about the dual identity thing.

Ann mentioned that it seems that the laws of physics must work differently in the Superman universe for a pair of glasses to hide his true identity. I disagree. It's also the hair style, the suit, the body language, the powers, the voice, the facial expressions (my impression is that Superman frowned more often than Clark did in the series), and the apparent change of personality between them. If someone wants to pull off an identity switch, it can be done, and identifying these people usually happens either when they make a mistake or some civilian gives the cops a tip. Granted, it would be more difficult for someone in the public eye, like Superman, but I think it's feasible.

To bring this back to the story, Kal-El has suffered greatly alongside Lois, a situation which nearly always brings the sufferers very close together. Conversely, while Clark suffered alongside Lois (and therefore feels the same no matter what clothes he's wearing), Lois doesn't know that! All she sees is the inept, undependable, dorky klutz she works with. When he wears the suit, she sees the man with whom she experienced torture, pain, dehumanizing treatment, and perilous escape. Her attitude towards both men is completely reasonable and completely understandable. And I still think there will be some huge speed bumps when she finds out, whether he tells her or she figures it out herself.

Can't wait to see whether or not I'm right. Or even close.

Almost forgot to ask, Rachel, how did the date go? Well, I hope! I hope you had a nice time with a nice person.

M’darling Smirkster,

Sorry for the very, very belated FDK! I was a bit preoccupied with my own fic. I’m now offically in the First Time Fic-Posters club, right along with you! *shakes hand* Do I get a button?

This was an adorable chapter! I was so afraid that Clark wouldn’t be able to keep their date! Glad that turned out well.

You know, I love your little details:

(Cause he’s got t-e-l-e-s-c-o-p-i-c vision!)

Classic Clark maneuver! Figure it out, Lois!

And your way of color-coding emotions, sounds and scents. The scent of rain is blue, and exhaustion is grey.

And your imagery:

It’s like Superman is some wary, exotic bird with a hurt wing. Adorable!

Early writers and directors insisted that Superman was the real man and Clark was just the façade. Modern takes on the story insists he was a regular guy who had a flare for spandex. Yours is the first instance where I have seen a story that doesn’t try to separate the two personas, preferring instead to focus on how the man was very much an amalgamation of two very real and valid personalities.

In the instances above, between Superman and Lois Lane, Superman seems to usurp Clark’s role in the dynamic we would come to expect of them later on in the series. While this is not special in itself, the deviating factor from the common fanfic fantasy is that Lois is sharing such a relationship with a man she still understands as alien, calls him by his alien name and still accepts him as human. She embraces his alien roots, human core and superhero burdens as wholly and completely as I’ve ever seen in any of their incarnations, thereby validating the existence of one whole man, without sweeping aside either of his alter egos.

I wonder whether this is a reflection of the thinking of our generation. In early decades, people needed to believe in absolutes. A person was either a god or a man. Either inherently good or evil. In contemporary years, the demand for super men has given way to a new appreciation for the ordinary man on the street, who could have girlfriend troubles and overdue taxes and still have the power to make a difference. The idea of a person as a multi-faceted individual of no absolutes, where the divine and the human could merge into a harmonious whole seems to be what will shape the thinking of our own generation.

*Looks around* *sees everyone staring* *scrambles off soapbox hurriedly*

Btw, you say tom-ah-to, I say tom-ay-to. You say “pure fluffy WAFF”; I say “rip-your- heart-out –and- pound –it- with -a -three-inch-stiletto”:



I nearly cried at the way she was terrified to let go of his hand, as though she were a little girl afraid of being abandoned again.

Random comments:

I take it from this passage that you’re going to diss the whole “Lord Kal El of the House of El” and New Krypton deal, in favour of the original back story?

This is a bit of Smallville I could have done without. I hate the sixth season as much I loved the fifth. The recent Lexana wedding episode was about the icing on the cake. *pulls out barf bag*

Basically sums up what I spent three paragraphs trying to say above. The ultimate amalgamation between Terran and Kryptonian. Neither of earth nor a child of the stars, but very much belonging to the best of both worlds.


Another SuperClark moment! I love this soo much.

Much as I’m enjoying all this, Smirkster, I think it’s time for a little something, now. Ten letters. Starts with an R. Ends with an N. Has E-V-E-L-A-T-I-O in between. Guess what it is?

Don’t take too long!

Hasini.

Okay, I need to put in my 2 cents worth in the debate going on here.

I’m sorry, but I couldn’t disagree more. Firstly, just because Clark comes to Lois in his suit, it doesn’t mean he’s presenting himself in his Superman persona. Just because Lois calls him Kal-El, it doesn’t mean she’s embracing Superman only. As I have pointed out in my review, this story has gone far beyond separate personas. Clark is presenting himself as he truly is, a flawed, naive being with a fragile heart who is an alien and superhero as well as being the most wonderfully human man Lois has ever met. Lois acceptance of him is more complete and unreserved in this story than in any I have ever seen.

There are two obstacles between them. Clark is understandably in the throes of an identity crisis and can’t see that Lois’ rejection of him as her hick partner is only based upon her own early misconceptions which she has not yet moved past, and also her preoccupation with her relationship with Kal-El. Largely the latter. I honestly fail to see how this is such a great betrayal on either of their parts.

The Clark’s failure to realize the reality and extent of Lois’s love and Lois’ failure to figure out Clark’s secret’s has everything to do with their own self-absorption and insecurities and nothing to do with any conscious betrayal. Loving each other the way they do, I find it unthinkable that the guise under which Clark chooses to reveal himself would matter to Lois’ reaction to it. She’s hardly that shallow!

Would Clark be more honest to carve a relationship with her as Clark only, any more than if he were to present himself as Superman? She would be investing her feelings in the promise of a relationship with only half the man, in either case. In the scenario of Darkest Dreams, Lois enters the relationship with both eyes open. She’s in love with the real, whole man. Now all she has to do is prove it.

As for Lois failing to see Clark is also Superman, well, it isn’t anyone’s fault. It’s Siegel and Shushter’s who, in their infinite wisdom, decided that there would be no interesting love triangle to keep readers hooked if Lois was allowed to use her razor-sharp intellect and intuition and see the obvious. If a guy can fly around in tights and a cape, he can also pass himself off as a mild-mannered reporter to his dearest friends. It’s one of the foundations of the mythos. Why should a woman blindly in love be expected to see what those of clearer heads and more experience can’t either? Why is nobody bashing Perry, Jimmy, Henderson, Maggie Sawyer, Bobby Bigmouth etc. etc.?

And if people disagree with that, fine. Write a fic where Lois sees Superman for the first time and goes “Clark, where on earth did you get that ridiculous get-up?”. Well, it’s hardly unfeasible! Would’ve been my reaction! But of course, no one will, because what would be the point of that?

In fact, Richard Donner’s Lois figured it out quite sensibly on her own before Richard Lester stepped in and decided that was not a profitable plot development and wrote in the memory-wiping kiss.

Fact is, Lois is blind because we want her to be. We like yelling at her and groaning in frustration when she doesn’t figure it out. We LOVE the near-misses that carry on the sexual tension and their eternal love triangle!

So it’s one thing to enjoy this kind of unrealistic farcical comedy. It’s a whole other thing to diss Lois’ character because of it. How can you blame a puppet for being puppeteered? It’s irrational!

Well, it's such a pleasure to read other people's comments on this story. This is definitely a time when you can get smarter by taking part of other people's thoughts! (Ehhh... and if you ask me... that's what separates us humans from the rest of the animal kingdom anyway. )

Terry wrote:

I'm sure it's possible for many people to live a double life, but can you really do it when you are famous? When you are so famous? When you are the most famous person in the world? If, say, five hundred million people know exactly what Superman's face looks like, and a few thousand interested and well-informed people recognize Clark Kent? And all those who recognize Clark Kent also know exactly what Superman looks like? And all of these people are also interested in what Superman does in his spare time? Then it's not going to be enough that Clark's disguise is good enough to fool, say, ninety-nine people out of a hundred. Then again, maybe Clark is even better at disguising himself that I give him credit for.

But Terry, I love this observation:

So true.

This observation of Hasini's fascinates me:

Like Hasini, I think that your take on the Clark/Lois/Superman love triangle is unique. I've long thought that it resembles the classic "Clark-loves-Lois-who-loves-Superman-who-isn't-interested-in-Lois-who-despises-Clark" frustrating love triangle for two. But this chapter showed us something that I can't remember seeing ever before. Not in any of those innumerable comics I have read. Not in any of the movies. Not in the LnC TV show, even though I've really seen so little of it. Rachel, I'm talking about the sweet, intimate, all-defenses-down togetherness between Lois and Superman. I'm talking about Lois and Superman breaking down in a fit of giggles as they are sharing some lovely cheesecake. I'm talking about Lois and Superman snuggling on couch and falling asleep together as they are watching a romantic movie. Really, that has never happened before.

What we have seen before has been an ever-so-slightly supercilious attitude of Superman towards Lois. Superman has been romancing Lois before, but always from a position of superiority. He has been bestowing his love on Lois like a king bestows favors on a grateful subject. Even when his relationship with Lois has been relatively equal - as it was for a while in the seventies - Superman was always firmly in control of himself and of what was happening between him and Lois. You would never have seen that Superman break down in a fit of uncontrollable giggles or fall asleep with Lois on the couch.

So your story shows us Superman dropping all pretence in front of Lois and showing her all of his vulnerability, softness, happiness, longing and love. Indeed, he's letting her see all of himself - with one tiny exception. He hasn't let her see that he spends most of his time wearing a conservative suit and glasses rather than spandex and a cape.

Your take on Superman is unique, Rachel, and still it is so recognizable.

Ann

Whohoo! I'm barred from my computer for a day and I come back to pure amazing-ness!



TOC wrote:
I appreciate that! lol.

Guilty as charged! You know, I live in a place that qualifies as a desert, but I went to Seattle once and it just rained and rained and rained . . . it was *lovely*! <sighs> Everyone else wished it would clear out, but it made everything so green and fresh and clean...

Okay, I'm stopping now.

It's a very good thing his speed doesn't cut him away from the world like that! As for me, just traveling cross country or whatever at times just throws off my internal clock. To Clark, who can speed to any time of the day or even fly out and float right in front of the sun, I can imagine that he might get confused at times, especially when he's been working through the night for China, to come back to night in Metropolis. At least during the day you can see the sun move. At night, time kind of stops meaning much.

I like the idea of Lois tying him back to Earth and Metropolis. Really, his "time" is her time, because he knows he'll always be able to come back to her. It's a sweet idea. Thanks for pointing that out.

Hehe. I'm guilty of being a complete sop when it comes to their interaction . . . I love it.

I've always thought your religious comparisons are quite interesting. As for Lois's uncertainty, I think it's one of the touching thing about both of them--that they both don't think they're good enough for the other. It's sweet.

As for the mysteriousness . . .

That's what I love about Clark. He's so invulnerable, strong, and powerful in one way, but while Lois accepts and love that, she also can see the "dripping puppy" out there, and she loves him all the more for it. <feels waffy>

And there is Clark trying to do the exact same thing--keep up his dignity and the remnants of his "invulnerable" image, just as Lois is still trying to defend that scrap of her independence between them. But both of their attempts are weak at best, and it doesn't last very far into this chapter, does it?

Exactly! Clark recognizes his fears and from whence they've sprouted. He's not happy about them, and he realizes that he can't just ignore them, but he's doing his best. That's what makes him the super man we all love.

I think this special sympathetic side of Clark stems directly from his childhood and how his parents raised him. He wasn't raised to think himself better than anyone, and as his powers developed they made him *more* humble and careful and unjudging, if anything. He didn't see it as some gift that gave him the right to 'rule' others, or to attack the darkness and destroy it. He just realizes that it's his duty, along with everyone else, to try and do his best to avoid a little more darkness by bringing just a little more light.

I think it goes to show how much Lois has really learned to *know* and understand Clark (or "Superman," if you will) that she can read him so easily.

This time of separation has definitely not been an easy time for either Lois or Clark. I think that it was fiting to end it with the very words that began that lonely time--even if both were heartfelt as they could be. Like you said, the first time Clark is saying, "Thank you and goodbye." This time, I get the feeling that he's saying something more like, "Thank you, now let me try to show you how thankful I am." It has a very different tone to it.

Isn't that a lot of what true love is? Absolute, constant gratitude for everything--even the things that sometimes seem irritating or even hurtful? Gratitude that, sure, maybe things aren't exactly as you want them, but everything is better than being without that person you love? I think it shows the depth of Clark's dependency on her that he cherishes even the cutting words that Lois tosses sometimes quite carelessly at him, along with all of the good. He's accepting the whole of her being just like she accepts all of "Superman's" being--with weaknesses and strengths alike.

Again, I think it's showing the growing understanding between both of them. Lois really doesn't need him to explain. It doesn't change that it had hurt her and made her lonely and frightened, but she realizes--especially now that he's back and all right--that *everything* can be all right as long as he's all right.

Like someone points out farther down, Clark is having a major identity crisis here. The wall between Superman and Clark is no longer a clean line or a mask of one that can be fitted over another--instead, it's this odd sort of combination. He feels like he can't be anything but nervous and stuttering as Clark--largely due to what Lois expects of him--and as Superman he's starting to be much more like the man Clark was before Bureau 39. But he can't bring himself to think of himself *as* Superman, because he's always associated that name to be the "alien" part of him, and especially after Bureau 39 he's definitely not comfortable with saying, "Okay, so I--the whole of me--is an alien," even after Jor-El's message.

I really hope I'm not the only one who has ever had a random spontaneous laughter attack. lol.

Oh, Clark! <shakes head>

She's starting to, especially after breaking into his apartment and seeing all the pictures and stuff.

Exactly. Poor guy. <knocks him affectionately over the head>

I think the panic at the very thought of him leaving her is enough to show how dependent she really is on him.

Lois is really doing her best to help him out of his shell that she realizes he has hidden behind out of his fear and uncertainty. Clark has just been too uncertain to step forward and do his part.

Wow. To tell you the truth, I've never thought of it as anything but a giant old sun. But your idea is quite interesting to think about. Thanks for giving me a little mini-science lesson!

Me too. I mean, if Superman were real and *I* had an interview with him, I certainly wouldn't stick to the questions they used in STM, especially if I was hard-hitting reporter Lois Lane!

Hm. Good point. I think Lois was just trying to point out that trials and fear tear away any fake images we might be trying to hide away to the core beneath--whether that's good or bad is the real test of character.

Superman was gone for so long not just because of his fears, but because--as we've pointed out before--that in many ways he just ceased to be. I think Clark was thinking more about how fear is *still* affecting him, and in a way that involves Lois directly. He's been too afraid to tell her his secret, even after trying again and again.

The simple touches, the little looks and smiles and glances. I think they say more than a lot of the words that are being spoken.



Wow! Ann, you really know your stuff. If I ever have a question, remind me to come to you! As for the comparison--no, it doesn't make it right. But clearly the argument was powerful enough to bring the past to haunt the present, even if we can see it from afar and realize how ridiculous and tragic it really is.

The one thing I hope we can see throughout DD is how illogical human minds (and Clark's mind too, I suppose I'd better add) can be. They're flawed, subjective, affected by emotions, hopes, dreams, terrors. As readers we've seen things long before they happen and screamed over some of Lois and Clark's actions--but I hope we can understand why they do what they do nonetheless, even if we aren't happy with it.

<scratches head> I don't think I've said anything about blue eyes, but I may have on accident. I'm trying to write this story to bridge both the movies and LnC and all that stuff, but to tell you the truth, when I write I don't see Dean Cain or Brandon Routh or Christopher Reeve--I just see Clark. It's an odd combination, especially visibly, but it's more the feeling I get from him. As for the description of height and weight--I do admit that I pulled that from STM.

Again, I love that mother hen Lois.

If only he'd just get it over with, he could really relax and not have to worry about one more thing! It would be much easier on both of them (Eventually, anyway).

My fingers are itching to give a very nice reply to this, but I'm not going to. I've kind of been avoiding this side of the reviews today. <has to delete about three sentences in fear of saying too much> But do know that I'm reading them and giving them quite a bit of thought!

I think it's the whole perspective thing again. We can't see inside Lois's mind--of course we know Clark is Superman, so it's obvious to us. But like in my story, it's obvious Clark needs to tell Lois, but he hasn't. It's obvious that Lois should recognize Superman now especially, but she hasn't. And considering everything they've been through and where Lois's focus has been, I don't think it's a surprise for any of those things.

Is that an order, a command, a threat, or a plea?

It sounds like the end of a powerful speach, Ann. Have you considered running for presidency?

Okay, I'm working my way down (slowly) . . .

Onto your 2nd response . . .

OH, no! I hadn't noticed that--I'm only a beat reporter? Lame! Did that happen in the Great Site Crash of Doom a couple weeks ago? Well, at least we didn't lose everything. . .

<walks off whistling to herself>

We'll see.

Thanks for your review! You're amazing!!!

SmirkyRaven

Slowly working my way down . . .

Terry Leatherwood! Back into this very lovely debate, aren't you? I tell you, I'm really, really enjoying everyone's discussion of this. You all have very plausible beliefs and explanations--and you're certainly turning on the pressure for when the revelation does (eventually ) come. I hope it works to everyone's satisfaction! <bites fingernails nervously>

You're bringing together a lot of ideas here, Terry, and I like how you've said it. It's part of the awful situation between Lois and Clark--that Clark is uncertain towards Lois because of her obvious care for Superman, because he wants to *be* Clark, and for him to love her as Clark. But we can't blame Lois at all!! In many senses she *does* know Superman much better than she knows Clark, and once you have that special someone you aren't going to be looking for love in any other quarter. It's just like you said later on in your review:

I love this. And crossing over the universes, it reminds me of the famous quote from Batman Begins: "It's not who I am, but what I do that defines me." Lois is seeing Clark and Superman as is defined by what she has seen them do. It's not her fault that her view is limited. Every single action she does or word she says shows the difference how how she thinks of Clark and Superman. Yet I think it's also interesting to see how her thoughts sometimes cross over without her realizing it until she stops herself and thinks "I'm going crazy." Poor Lois.

Hehe. I could go off this forever, but it's quite off topic so I'll be "quick." I've been on a few dates with this friend of mine, but not for a number of months. It was a lot of fun, but as for how serious it was . . . well, you could say that I'm not inclined to try and get into any "serious" relationship at the moment, if only because I've been so busy with school. My dad claims I'm afraid of commitment (which may possibly be true, but I blame it on the society in which I live, where girls are a "menace to society" if they're not married by the time they're twenty-two), but to tell you the truth I think I'm just too independent and too much of a romantic, so I just expect too much of the guys I date, even though they're quite fine as good friends--just no more than that. <shakes head> (And I have a whole theory about men, dating, etc, but my "short" answer is turning into a novel, so I'm going to stop here. ) [/rant]

Short answer: The date was fun, jolly good. I had a great time. <rolls eyes at self> Now everyone will no better than to ask me about boys . . . hehehee.

Sorry about the tangent, Terry. Thanks for your very thoughtful review!

SmirkyRaven

Great to hear from you, Hasini! Your review, as always, was marvelous.

Have you started posting your fic from the challenge boards?! I've been too busy to notice too much around the boards recently, but I'd love to hear about it--what's it called!

We should get buttons. <sage nod, shifty eyes>

I think you've figured by now that I love to use color to carry imagery and feeling of a scene. I'm glad you like it.

I love the way you describe him! lol

I'm sooo glad you liked that. I noticed that myself--which is why Superman is my favorite hero. While I love Batman, there's something so pure about Superman and the way he's always focusing on saving the good guys rather than pounding the bad guys.

The movie version isn't exactly the same as the book--in fact, the plot itself follows more of Baroness Orczy's Eldorado rather than The Scarlet Pimpernel, but the idea is there, and I still love the movie. I'd highly recommend it. It's a bit older, but the version that I love is the one that has Anthony Andrews as Percy, Jane Seymour as Marguerite (just ignore the hair ) and Ian McKellen as Chauvelin (before he became Gandalf ).

You can stay up there a little longer! I love how you've put this. <reads through it again> Some marvelous ideas there, m'lady! Thanks for sharing!

Hehee. I've had a few other people say the same sort of thing. I guess the disclaimer was caused by my brother's stoic reaction. I'd poured my heart into it, and after he read it he looked at me and the first thing he said was, "It's not very plot driven, is it?" I'm afraid that I'm very self-conscious about my writing, so I was just like, "Oh, no! What if everyone else has the same sort of reaction? What if everyone is sitting here getting so impatient for the "plot" to get going?" I'd bet there are some of those people out there, so I guess the warning was sent to them.

Hehee. As for your reaction--I'm glad! I'm quite emotionly involved in this story, and I mean to try and carry that through to you readers. If you feel like I feel, I've done my job.

Throughout this whole chapter they just can't seem to stop touching or looking at each other. It seems they both have that same fear.

<grimaces> To tell you the truth, even though I liked the whole angst issue with the New Krypton plot, everything else . . . meh. Let's just say that I like Clark's uniqueness, and the fact that there's a whole little civilization of Kryptonians starting a whole New Krypton out there just doesn't fit very well with me. <shrugs>

<snickers> I admit I watch Smallville, but to tell you the truth I spend most of the time either laughing at the newest soap opera plight of Lana, groaning over the ridiculous that Clark won't just get over her, and being just plain gleeful about how evil Lex and Lionel can really be. (So I have a fetish for evil men. At least they use their brains and run circles around everyone else). :rolleyes:

But besides that random sidenote of mine (which belongs in the OT thread ), I didn't mean to pull the Phantom Zone out of Smallville at all. I don't really like how they've dealt with it at all. Rather, I pulled the reference directly from the old Chris Reeve movies.

Perfect.

. . . I think I have a mob lining up outside on my front lawn. <peers out through the window curtains>

Thanks for your review, Hasini!

SmirkyRaven

Well, since that crash apparently wiped away a bunch of my review counts as well, I'll follow Ann's example and post all of these as separate responses . . .

Continuing with your "two cents," Hasini . . . (I think it's more like a fifty-cent piece )

Ah! So it's *your review that I've been quoting all the way down in my responses to everyone else. I couldn't remember exactly who had gone out on this thought . . .

I'll tell you, even though one of the early chapters is called "what's in a name?" I've wanted to use that title again and again and again as we go on. Like I said to . . . Ann, I think it was--Clark's identities are no longer masks or whatever, but have become a confusing mixture of who he really is--with Lois's reaction to him making the difference as how he acts as Clark and Superman. And it's confusing him, just like you said:

Beautifully put.

I agree with you on plenty of these points. Lois's love has gone to the man underneath both guises--it's such a thing that won't be rattled. I mean, Superman ran off and left her, and she was just glad to have him back. The pre-Bureau 39 Lois would have been furious, hurt, and much less forgiving. She didn't even force him to tell her why he left, yet. That alone I think shows how much she's really come to trust him and love him--and how much she's afraid of losing him, and how much she's willing to let go in consideration of him rather than her own feelings.

But the others have a point as well. Lois has certainly been feeling very strongly towards Superman and not so well towards Clark, though she is warming up towards the latter and certainly more than a little unsure of what exactly to think of her naive partner.

I guess we'll just have to see what happens, eh?



I love this discussion that's going around. It's certainly interesting to think about, and to tell you the truth I'm going to sit back and ponder and marvel about the logic of all of your arguments.

Hm. Here's where I'm going to have to disagree to save my own reputation. I think it was Ben Jonson that wrote that books and such should be natural in such a way that it catches the essence of human beings and how they would react in certain situations, and that every character should be able to have some reason for what they're doing (even if it's irrational--because heaven knows that people are often plenty irrational).

As for myself, in DD at least, I figure that we have a few reasons why Lois doesn't see the truth. We have her own grief and completely narrowed view (which she did in order to not completely lose her mind in the horrible memories and aftermath of Bureau 39) which kept her mind almost exclusively on Superman and the government agency and left no room for anyone--not even herself. Second, remember that since Bureau 39 capture them, at least, Lois has only been around Clark for a few days. Before he went to Smallville she was completely caught up in the case (see point 1), and later . . . well, even if she doesn't know what she's suspecting, she is suspecting *something* of Clark Kent, and she's getting close. Considering that he got back on Friday and right now it's only Saturday evening--in her mind, she's only been around Clark for the equivalent of one full day at work--I think we should be congratulating her, rather than condemning her.

Lastly, it's a human tendency that we don't see what we don't expect to see. Who a person is to us is as defined by how we feel towards them as to their face, if not more. As a prime example, I'm absolutely horrible with connecting names to faces and vice e versa. But if my brother mentions a name, I get the *feeling* I feel towards a person--whether I like them, whether I think they're fun, serious, helpful, or whatever . . . and that's who they are in my mind. In Lois's mind, Clark and Superman *feel* like different people (except for every once in a while, but she dismisses that as how she can't get Superman out of her thoughts), so it doesn't matter all that much what they look like.

If that works. <shrugs>

Anyway, that was my . . . <counts> 12.7 cents into that discussion.

Thanks for your extended review! Very thought-provoking. Loved it!

SmirkyRaven

Another one, Ann!? Well, I'm not complaining!

LOL. You reflect my thoughts exactly, Ann! You think you know everything about Superman, and that you've seen every angle and situation, but all this stuff has really made me think. It's quite marvelous, and I'm really enjoying it.

Hm. Again, a good point. I don't think we've had a *bad* point throughout this whole debate, even if there are different opinions for quite different sides. And I'll agree with you (I'll just agree with everyone, contradictory as it seems) in that I think that people would be a *lot* more curious and invasive towards Superman's "personal" life if he really did exist. Oh, well. I guess this time I'll have to ignore Ben Jonson and just wave it off as creative license.

Oh, Ann, you know how to boost a girl's ego. <blushes with pleasure> I love Lois's character, just like you, Ann, and it always kind of frustrated me (especially in the first season of LnC) of how Lois just kind of tosses all of her "new women," independent, intelligent mind to the wind and chases this flashy stranger that flies around in blue tights. Really, how often does she see him, except when he swoops down to save her life? She can't know him *until* he tells her he's Clark, which is one reason why Clark refuses to tell her until he sees *him* first. Here, Clark has *become* Superman in a way that is, like you said, unique. In many ways, he's stopped lying to her as Superman long before, just by *acting* like himself, though the confidence Lois gives him makes him act quite differently than "Clark." I think Lois was quite right when she claimed she knew his heart and soul. She knows Superman, so she knows Clark. She might not know all the details about Superman, but she knows *Clark Kent* better than she can possibly imagine.

Hehee. LnC is a bit better in this case, though--in just the fact that Clark really does intend to court her as Clark . . . I guess he just gets carried away sometimes and can't resist letting her "worship" him for a little longer.

This stopped in . . . chapter 4, or something, of DD, when Lois speaks to Superman in the white room and Clark realizes that the awe that is usually in Lois's voice has been replaced by something much deeper and more powerful. After that, the whole mask Clark's wrapped around Superman starts to unravel, because she really does see him, and so it's pointless for him to try and not act like himself when she knows he's acting (if that makes sense:D).

<warm, fuzzy feeling> Thanks, Ann! I've got to run off to church choir, but thank you so much for all your comments.

Everyone, the depth of discussion here has been just simply amazing. Thank you for everyone's thoughts and contributions. Thank you thank you thank you.

Rachel (SmirkyRaven)

Very interesting discussions! However...I haven't seen my favorite line quoted yet.


I can't help but laugh out loud. That's Lois in a nutshell! Here's hoping Lois will continue to turn Clark/Superman into someone who's *not* an earthbound nonbeliever. Clark's had a hell of a fanfic life to deal with here (since I can't remember how much time we've spanned). I think he'll tell Lois when he's ready to reach for the stars.

And now completely off topic:

Good freaking grief! I'm 23 years old and while I distance myself from one complete loser after another, almost all of my friends are married or in relationships that can easily turn into marriage. Where was my memo?!

JD

Double post.

I woke up this morning and had a fuzzy yet apprehensive recollection that I posted some things on the MBs at two o’clock in the morning. Usually, nothing I have to say at two o’clock in the morning that bodes well for my future, so I decided to check and see what kind of possibly offensive and embarrassing inane ramblings I had indulged myself in. It wasn’t bad actually, I sound quite rational for the most part, but this one hit my squirm-alarm:


________________________________________
Hm. Here's where I'm going to have to disagree to save my own reputation. I think it was Ben Jonson that wrote that books and such should be natural in such a way that it catches the essence of human beings and how they would react in certain situations, and that every character should be able to have some reason for what they're doing (even if it's irrational--because heaven knows that people are often plenty irrational). [/QUOTE]

You’re absolutely right to disagree, Smirky! Sheesh, I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that! If I ever argued like that in a school debate, I’d be laughed off the stage!

The actions of every character are driven by their allotted traits and qualities, and those actions in turn shape the character. You can’t really separate the two, no matter how irrational they are, any more than you can in real life. It’s ridiculous to write off the discrepancies between the established traits of a character and their path of action as being solely the fault of the writer which should not have any bearing on our perception of the character itself.

So yes, Lois does have an explanation for her actions. It is their rationality that is under scrutiny. However, the point I was trying to make before my sleep-riddled mind carried me off on a ridiculous tangent, was that in a fictional, fantastic world that operates only on a given value of rationality, can we really measure the events and actions of that world by our own uncomprehending yardstick and come to a definite conclusion about anything? Can we judge the validity of such a fantastically fictional character’s motivations by contrasting them with our ideals in the real world? It’s like a cross cultural divide, of sorts. The culture of the fantastic and inexplicable against the culture of the logical and realistic. With no way of fully comprehending how such a world is supposed to work, how can we either condemn Lois’ character for her blindness or cast it as a reflection of her stupidity? We can only judge the realism of such a plot device and find it wanting.

*reads through the above paragraph and realizes it makes even less sense than before. *

I agree with Ann, all right?! *headdesk*

Anyway, none of this is applicable to DD. One of the reasons that this story is so completely lovable and unique is that you’ve taken the whole of the Superman mythos as a whole and instead of changing it to suit our tastes, you’ve created a setting that infuses the character’s actions with a degree of heretofore unprecedented believability and understanding. In this story, it’s perfectly understandable why Clark comes across as a bumbling idiot, how Lois could overlook him and love his alter-ego without it casting a negative reflection upon her character. And for the first time, Clark’s deception doesn’t automatically garner a barrage of rotten tomatoes from the audience. We don’t like it, but we do understand it, as we haven’t really done since that plot point was first introduced. I think you should head over to DC Comics and give them a few pointers.

I had initially started off with a spiel about how your Superman was as unique to you as Seigel and Schuster’s, Lester’s, Singer’s and Deborah Joy Levine’s was unique to them. But then I thought I’d scare you by sounding too effusive and cut that part out. But since Ann seems to agree with me, I thought I might as well let you know I thought that.

Right. Nuff procrastinating! I have a history assignment due tomorrow.

Btw, my fic is Woman In The Mirror and the prologue is up. A simple yea or a nay from my favourite writer would make my day. You are the one who gave me the final push, you know!

Hasini.