Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Gas in America

I, personally, have an SUV. There were two main reasons I got it. It is large enough to seat our entire family comfortably and is able to carry a couple of guests as well. We often have visitors from out of town since we have no family where we live, so it's nice to not have to take two cars. The second reason is safety. It's pretty well known that SUV's are among the safest vehicles on the road. When I look at my two kids sitting in their car seats buckled in comfortably behind me, I know that they're as safe as I can make them. Gas mileage just doesn't even factor into the equation where they're concerned.

I'm not saying that any parent that doesn't get an SUV is being a bad parent. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that IMO, that's a good way to keep them safer when we're on the road. Others will feel differently and I have no quarrel with that. I do think that safety is a major factor why soccer moms love SUV's as a vehicle of choice. Practically every mom I know drives an SUV, even the greenest one who makes a living selling organic merchandise.

As for Wendy's assertion that a weakened US dollar played a role in the rise in oil prices, she's absolutely right that it was a factor. It got bad enough that several countries were discussing re-pricing oil under multiple currencies or moving to the Euro. Some countries with currencies pegged to the dollar were thinking of switching to another currency or currencies.

But all things go in waves. The rejection of the EU Constitution and the acknowledgement that the US economy was still the strongest of the major industrialized countries with dropping budget deficits and a stabilizing current accounts deficit is leading to a reversal of fortune. Now people are talking about leaving the Euro and the possibility it may not survive as a currency. So the dollar has strengthened appreciably, just in time for my mother-in-law to visit from Sweden, of course.

I'm unsure how much the strength of the dollar plays into the price now. The price is close to a record high in absolute terms (not adjusted for inflation) but the dollar is much stronger than before. But it did play a role in bursting the $40 and $50 price barriers.

Actually, SUVs are more likely to tip, many are top-heavy, several models have had fire issues with their gas tanks . . . Claiming that SUVs in general are safer is simply not true. In fact, in certain types of collisions, an SUV is the last vehicle you want to be in.

Now, certain specific models may be safer, generally speaking. However, even they are far more likely to do fatal damage to whatever vehicle they collide with. And while I will do a lot to protect my kids, putting other innocent people's lives at risk is not on that list.

There are some great reasons to drive an SUV. Needing 4-wheel drive (because of heavy cargo or bad roads), for instance. But if you're just trying to squeeze in people, I submit that you'd be just as well off with a minivan. (Of course, they're gas-guzzlers too, although not as bad as most SUVs.)

Our other car is a minivan which actually seats one fewer.

But are there minivans which seat as many as your SUV?

Sure. Substitute a bench for the captain's chairs and it'd fit the same number.

The SUV is actually safer than our minivan because of many of the advanced safety devices it has, including side airbags, variable laser cruise control, rear warning sensors and camera, etc.

Most if not all of those are available in minivans. And except for the airbags, I'm not convinced they actually make much difference safety-wise. *shrug*

Well, I'm short enough that I have to sit pretty near the steering wheel to drive, and I'm halfway convinced that if the airbag ever did go off, it'd be enough to kill me. But whatcha gonna do? and when it's 90 degrees out and sunny, that's an important consideration! Still, last year we had a burst of prosperity and bought a sedan -- I'd just started driving the kids to and from school each day, and we wanted something a lot more efficient. (This school year, the kids are taking the bus and it's a lot cheaper!) The high price of gas is at least a little bit of disincentive to drive the SUV, but as I said, up until recently we didn't have an alternative.

The price around here is about $2.25 ($2.21 is the cheapest I've seen lately).

As for energy policy -- well, I tend to be conservative, but I haven't paid too much attention to the alternatives, so this thread has been interesting. I do wish someone would do *something* though, 'cause these multi-state electricity black-outs just can't be good for us. The power goes out around here anytime it rains, anyway

PJ

I've been finding this conversation fascinating too.

It's at moments like these, I pause to remember what life used to be like without the net, when we never got to hear how others live like this. Or, at least, not so easily. I never cease to be amazed (and grateful) at what a world of information and shared experiences it opens up and how much it enables me to learn about and understand other cultures.

And in such a fun way too.

LabRat

I think this discussion is fascinating, too, though my eyes tend to glaze over during the long parts, making me reread it a few times.

Price here is between $2.13 and $2.19 a gallon, depending on which corner you go to. The 2.13 is right on the NC/SC state line, but I haven't driven to the other side of the road my work is on to find out how much it is there.

SUVs scare me. Like Pam, I'm short enough that I have to be really close to steering wheel. I'm also afraid to drive anything where the seat is higher than my hips when I'm standing on the ground, because I don't trust my depth perception. The height difference completely throws me off. My next car, however, *will* be a hybrid sedan. By the time I need a new car, they'll be a bit more reasonably priced. Right now, they're only slightly higher than a normal gas engine.

We have a minivan, and I won't claim that it doesn't guzzle more gas than I'd like. I really have no data to compare minivan gas efficiency with SUV's, so I won't argue that point at all.

And the reason we drive a minivan (our other car is a sedan) is because we have to haul around several children on a fairly regular basis. I figure as long as I have kids and must drive carpools, I'll need that passenger capacity. And I confess that I like being higher up on the road - I prefer that extra bit of visibility. Plus there's that cargo-hauling capacity, which we've used on many many occasions.

As for safety of SUVs, here's my problem with the argument. It seems like a very true statement to say that in a collision of a car and an SUV, the SUV passengers are more likely to walk away unharmed or the least harmed. I wouldn't say that is the same case in a collision involving two SUVs because I would guess that the matched size would outstrip any extra cushioning offered by either. So if everyone drove SUVs, everyone would be equally safe. Thus it begs to argue that if everyone drove sedans, we'd all be back on the same playing field, at least as far as car on car collisions are concerned. It's the actual proliferation of large SUVs and minivans that facilitate the feeling of needing an SUV to be safer.

Granted, this doesn't account for general accidents in which another car isn't involved. Again, I have no hard data to rely on, but like Rivka, I'm not thoroughly convinced that SUVs are always safer.

I do believe there are good reasons to drive an SUV, and I even understand that passenger reason. If you have to tote kids around, an SUV is a good option for capacity.

My problem comes from people like my next door neighbor, who owns a minivan, which his wife drives the kids around in, plus he owns an SUV that gets something like 13 miles to the gallon which he drives into the city, all by himself. Now, I'm sure he'd make the excuse of needing to drive clients here and there, but not so long ago, salesmen were able to drive clients here and there in their more gas-friendly sedans. Why the need for this SUV? Or at least, why the need for both? Anyone living and commuting into and out of big cities can probably attest to the number of SUVs being used as commuter cars. What is that all about? It doesn't make sense to me. I don't think many commuters are taking their kids to the office with them and thus worried about safety.

Sorry if I'm sounding political. I guess this topic is kind of a sensitive one for me because I can't divorce the entire US-reliant-on-foreign-oil situation with things happening in the Middle East, and it seems that as long as we Americans aren't willing to change our attitudes in a big way - an attitude that seems to say that we Americans are entitled to drive large gas-guzzling vehicles and still expect our gas prices to remain as low as they used to be twenty years ago - things are never going to get any better.

Lynn

PS - In case you think I'm picking on people here, my father just purchased an SUV, and I'm not very happy with him. He certainly has no children to haul around, nor does he live in the country or in a place with extreme winter weather. In fact, he doesn't generally haul very much, either, so I have no idea why he feels the need for an SUV. In response to his choice, my mother plans to trade her car in for a hybrid, hoping to offset things.

I can remember when my dad complained when gas was 17 cents a gallon. Right now here in Ohio it's $2.14 cents a gallon. It jumps up on the week ends to $2.32 or so and then slowly goes back down.

Yeah, we were re-watching Die Hard the other day, and there's a shot of the skyscraper from a distance; in the foreground is a sign advertising gas for 79 cents a gallon or so It's moments like that that really pull me out of a movie...

Oh, and one of the things I really did like about driving the SUV is the increased height -- when I switched to my sedan I was suddenly sitting about a foot closer to the road and felt like I couldn't see *anything* <g> Going through drive-thru's was quite a change, too...

PJ

Hm, I actually cannot understand why you're talking so much about SUV's - most of them are harmless. I think back to my holiday in Spain and the rented Corvette Cabrio which cost me probably 17 € per 100 km (~62 miles); that was a special way of driving I've never had the pleasure of enjoying before but the price simply isn't worth it in the long run.

I can only imagine that this type of classic vehicles with a similar consumption are still around in the US.

Anyways, I'm currently driving a fine Lexus RX 300 which demands about 12 liter / 100 km or one gallone per 20 miles and I'm also quite satisfied with its capability as a family vehicle. (IMO are these consumption values on the upper limit, more only seems possible in the US :rolleyes: )

The problem is that cars just aren't adaptable enough. I reckon that for about 90% of the time, I could get by with a much smaller car - there's only me in the car and I don't carry any cargo. But for 10% of the time, I need two or three more seats for passengers and a large boot to take my shopping, DIY stuff, gardening stuff, or luggage. What I need is a car that can shrink and expand as required.

Car designers and manufacturers, I challenge you! <g>

Yvonne

- hmmm I didn't think it was getting political.

- I find the prices always seem to go up in the summer and bottom out in the winter! Also, when the long weekends hit, it goes up.

- I don't drive, my hubbie does. otherwise I walk, bus, board, etc.

- I'm glad we didn't get an SUV or a minivan. My family had a SUV during the 90s and man was it a gas hog. My family now shares a minivan (I'm not there anymore) and it cost five bucks for a 20-25 min. ride in the city! I borrowed it to move some junk and that was the amount I needed to replace, blah.

- We get about 10km per litre, city km's.

Me too. Well... I also have an irrational fear (well not fear, but just a major worry :p ) of getting sued! I know I know...don't tell me

Exactly! There have been prototypes along those lines. Trouble is, they all have an unfortunate tendency to go into "compress" mode in a collision -- regardless of whether there are people occupying the space or not.

What you could get, Yvonne, is a little trailer. Something you could attach on the back of your compact sedan that could be used to haul your stuff. I suppose your passengers might object to being shoved inside a windowless, airless box, but they'll adapt, especially if you remind them how good to the environment they are being.

Lynn

ack - my husband just yelled to me that the prices jumped up today to 1.05/L. ACK. I've never heard it that high here before. Yesterday it was less.

I actually lucked out for once and filled up the gas tank yesterday when it was 97.5! I got it at for 94 cents b/c of a coupon.

Well at least we hardly drive now. *sigh*

Oil speculation in the futures markets has gone out of control. Even information that would normally be bearish for oil is causing oil to rise. It's strange that pricing for such an important commodity is completely out of control of the suppliers of that commodity.

Some are predicting that an oil bubble is forming since we left supply/demand behind a long time ago, but who knows how long it'll take to pop it, if ever? Most economists feel that the last $10/barrel increase was purely due to speculators who will never take delivery of a single barrel of oil. From what I read, oil is probably overpriced by around $20/barrel.

Oil today hit another high near $67/barrel for US light sweet crude based on the fear of hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico and of Iran's restarting of their nuclear reactor. Since there is a several weeks lag between oil futures prices and gasoline at the pump, gas will get a lot more expensive than it is now.

Wow, I stumbled over some us-american gas-comparison website and that one really surprised me. Did you know that there's a gap from 2.12 to 3.29 usd per gallon?

That page can actually be quite useful if you're in search for a cheap source too. You might want to take a look: http://www.gaspricewatch.com/new/