Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Age difference

Think you've hit the nail square on the head there, Pam.

LabRat (yes, it's a 'me too' post - so sue me. )

I agree with everyone who says that informality comes with age. But I do notice regional/cultural differences, and differences along the lines of status.

Taking status first, I took my degrees at Ireland's oldest university, Trinity College Dublin, which is considered to be on a par with Oxford and Cambridge (it's the only other university whose degrees Oxbridge considers equivalent to its own. Snooty or what? ). Anyway, all lecturers had to be addressed as Dr, Professor, Mr, Ms (as their appropriate title may be). There was no informality permitted between students and academics. If academics bothered to know the name of a student, they would usually use first names, but I was persistently called 'Miss Richards' (never Ms) by a couple of older academics. It was quite a rite of passage when one lecturer, who'd become a sort of mentor to me in my last two years - and went on to become my PhD supervisor - told me after I'd graduated from my first degree to use his first name. (I'll add that it took me a further two years to call him anything at all, because I felt so uncomfortable about using his first name and he frowned if I called him Dr Surname :p ).

Then I moved to the UK to teach at Keele University, where informality is the custom. All students call academics by their first names. Most students take to it very easily but, as Metwin1 says, students from the Far East did not - they almost all refused to use first names alone and it was all we could do to stop them calling us Dr Richards, Mr Smith or whatever. So I got very used to being Mrs Wendy (they didn't seem to understand that many women prefer Ms, and the idea that I had a PhD didn't quite seem to enter their thinking ). I also had a British mature student just out of the army after 24 years; he found the informality extremely difficult to take, so other than when we were talking alone in my office, for example, I was 'Doc' or Dr Richards.

Now, the regional difference I've noticed since moving to Canada is in dealing with people I haven't met before and arranging business over the phone. Say, making a dental appointment or ordering something to be delivered: the person on the other end of the line, having asked my name, will call me Wendy throughout the conversation, where in the UK I'd be used to being addressed formally. I hasten to add that it doesn't bother me in the slightest and that now I'm getting used to it I like it.

As for the original point of Anna's question - yes, the internet is the great leveller. I've chatted to many people without even having an idea of their ages, and in many cases ended up very surprised. I've met a 16-year-old FoLC and wouldn't for one second have expected her to address me as Dr Richards! But then, I don't expect the children of friends to address me formally either.


Wendy (who probably needs to start thinking about whether she expects her new niece to use 'Aunt' or not... )

Now that you mention university, Wendy...
I was very surprised to hear that over here, university professors who are addressing all the students in the class, use the word 'colleagues'. (I guess I was expecting something along the lines of 'ladies and gentlemen'.)

Off topic, is there a difference between pronouncing Miss and Ms?

See ya,
AnnaBtG. (who thinks she'd feel awkward calling Pam or Wendy with her first names if she met them in person, but would probably do it anyway.)

'Miss' is pronounced the same as in 'Clark will miss his superpowers terribly'. 'Ms' is pronounced 'mizz' to rhyme with 'fizz' - as in 'Dr Klein smiled happily when the contents of his flask began to fizz'.

Yvonne

I hear it more like 'Muz', with a very short Z sound... Not like 'Mizz Lilian' who I believe was Jimmy Carter's mother, but a much shorter sound altogether.


Wendy

Thanks, girls

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

It's largely a status issue to me -- purely on the context in which I know the person. Professors at school are Dr. So-and-so, because they're in a position of authority.

Someone with the same degree as those professors who rings the next position down from me in handbell choir, misses notes from time to time, and is frequently late? First-name basis.

That caused a slight problem at one point when I knew someone as "Randy" guy next to me in handbells, and "Randy" friend of my brother -- but then realized he was also "Dr. Collins" in my department. Thankfully, I didn't have to take a class from him -- calling most professors by their first name as an undergrad wouldn't go over well.

I have a question for the elders here. The impression that I'm getting is that while you'd like (or sometimes expect) kids to be more formal rather than simply using your first name, once the kid grows up and becomes a full-fleged adult it becomes acceptable for him/her to use your first name?

I suppose I find it a little odd. :p The fact is while he/she may have grown up, he/she is still of younger generation, which means he/she should show you respect accorded by your age/status. Am I making sense here?


metwin1

Yeah, I guess that's pretty much it. I do think, though, that I still respect my elders (probably not to the extent that you do); it just isn't expressed in what I call them. Does that make sense?

PJ

I'm with Yvonne on the pronounciation of Ms. At least, that's always the way I've heard it pronounced.

As for how kids address me - it really doesn't matter to me whether they're formal or not. I'm sure if we'd objected to my nieces calling us by our first names their parents would have made them address us more formally. But it never seemed to me to be an issue of importance. I'm more concerned with how they act and if they're well-behaved, really. Which they - generally <g> - are.

LabRat

In reply to
In the Western world the age difference versus an order of respect doesn't hold throughout life. Once you become an adult you are sort of absorbed into the great peloton of life. (So I've been watching the Tour de France!)
All adults are pretty much equal unless there is a familial or organizational difference. I think that is the same with the internet here. We are all assumed to be functioning adults until somebody proves they aren't by their comments.
Addresses are situational. The Admiral may be younger than you, but you address him as "Admiral Lastname" at work. Even if he is your father and you have the same Lastname, you call him Admiral in a work situation.
Assuming he isn't a relative, but also a rather close friend (not an acquaintance), when in informal social situations you can call him just plain Bill. If the Admiral is a woman, the same applies, but you call her "ma'am" instead of "sir".
Collegues of equal or similar rank use first names unless it is a formal situation.
One of the kicks I get with Stargate SG-1 is that they have that whole addressing folks thing right.

Artemis
BTW Anna, you are very adult. I wouldn't have guessed you were just 17.

This is an interesting topic. I am a professor in NY. Many of my students call me professor or Professor Christian but I ask them on the first day to call me Laura. Most of the students have no problem calling me by my first name.

I explain to them that while I have earned the title, to me, professor, is an old man with white hair and glasses. I don't like it much. I also don't like being called Aunt by nieces and Nephews that are in their 20's and 30's. My Aunts are all in their 80's and 90's! I don't like anything that gives me the title of (old fart) I hate Mame and Miss almost as much. It is really my own silly perception and I know it doesn't affect my colleagues or relatives in the same way.

I am Laura, no better or worse then anyone else. My age should not matter. I do have more experience in my subject then my students; however it does not make me a better human being, just a more experienced one.

My students are all adults; they all have their own stories. Some are older then me, most are younger. Some surf, golf, run, work, own businesses etc. I do none of those things<g>.
We are all just people! I am not a big fan of titles as you can see.

Other cultures do have different feelings and views on the matter, so I don't give them a hard time when they insist on calling me miss or professor. To them it is disrespectful to do otherwise. To show no disrespect to them I deal with it.

Laura