Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Lois & Clark Analysis of Superman as a Christ figure

I never saw that movie, or even advertisements for it. When did it come out?

I never saw Passion, either; I really don't like watching violent entertainment, even when the violence is historical, non-gratuitous, and serves a greater good in the plot.

cheers,
Lynn

This thread is turning into a lively discussion, with much to respond about.

I am new to the fandom, so my impression may be erroneous; but in other fandoms I have been in, if something were in the canon, it was accepted as part of that universe. In FoLCdom, how is it determined what is or is not important in the mythology, other than its impact on the rest of the mythos?


true, it was Clark and not Superman that supposedly dies. I'll agree that that bulleted item was one of the ones that was more of a stretch than the others in my original post.

Wow. That must have been devastating to the Superman fans who read it.

I guess so, if one is willing to look outside of the LnC interpretation of him.

cheers,
Lynn

I'm certainly not claiming that Superman *is* the Messiah; only that there are a lot of parallels between him and Jesus. I'm coming at this from the perspective of a literary character analysis.

Clark's repeatedly lying has been brought up already int his thread. Do you have other acts of his in mind as well when you call him a very naughty boy?

cheers,
Lynn

Oh yes, there is one other similarity that I thought of but forgot to mention in my first post:

It was foretold that through Jesus/Superman a new, peaceful society will be ushered into existence, the likes of which the world has never known. (utopia, the thousand years of peace)

cheers,
Lynn

Nope - turning Clark Kent/Superman into a quasi god-Jesus figure totally kills his sexual appeal. It neuters him. Puts him in cold fish territory. Sucks the romance right out of the story. Totally weirds it up.

Nope. Never, ever, ever.



c. (apologising for having such a strong opinion but really.... CK/S is not at all sacred , although when he's good he's just a tad profane )

cc - I'm heartily seconding everything you said. I know there are parallels but... To me it feels squicky and sacrilegious on so many levels to equate the two. Or maybe I just feel that way because I write nfic.

Originally posted by Lynn S. M.:

Superman Returns was released in 2006, with Brandon Routh as the lead character. Brandon's Superman was defintely Christ-like in many ways, in my opinion, or at least the movie tried to make him that way. You can read about the movie here .

Originally posted by Lynn S. M.:

I wasn't trying to imply that TOGOM isn't important to the LnC mythos, because I think that this episode is one of the most important ones of the LnC:TNAoS TV series.

I was trying to say, instead, that LnC is a small part of a much, much larger Superman mythos. In the LnC universe TOGOM is very important, but in the context of the all-encompassing Superman mythos the impact of TOGOM is all but non-existent.

The larger Superman universe, minus the comics

Originally posted by Carol Malo:

I don't think that LnC's Superman is much like Jesus at all. Dean Cain's incarnation of the hero is much too robust, muscular, happy and smiling to be particularly Jesus-like at all.



Really. There are differences. Many, many differences. Large ones.

Soulful slender Brandon Routh, with his gaze directed heavenwards, was a much more Jesus-like Superman.



Brandon Routh's Superman. Not like Dean Cain's.

The most Jesus-like thing that I can think about when it comes to LnC's Superman is that he is supposed to found Utopia, which can be seen as a form of Heaven on Earth.

Ann

Well, the death of Superman was still groundbreaking when it happened. To my knowledge, no major comic book hero had been killed and resurrected at the time when Superman was killed and resurrected in the 1990s. The huge success of that story arc may be the reason why so many comic book heroes are killed and resurrected nowadays.

(The first major fictional hero who was killed and then resurrected may have been Sherlock Holmes. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle grew tired of his creation and offed him in a huge waterfall in Switzerland, I think. Fans protested vociferously, Conan Doyle was not so successful with his non-Sherlock-genre writing, and well, there you have it.)

Ann

I can certainly appreciate that position; in fact, that is precisely why I had put the "filler text" lines into my original post. I had figured that it might not sit well with everyone.

FWIW, by considering Superman as a "christ figure," I absolutely do NOT intend to imply that he is in any way divine or worthy of being worshiped. Nor do I mean to reduce Jesus' supreme sacrifice to the level of "snatch a falling Lois from the air and set her down gently". My intent was simply to do a compare/contrast of the Biblical Jesus and the LnC version of Superman. (Ann pointed out in another post, which I hope to have time to address soon, that LnC only one part of the Superman mythos. That is definitely true. But I was confining my original analysis to the LnC aspect of it, partly because I am not well-versed in the other venues for Superman, and partly because I know that LnC actually contradicts the greater Superman realm in some major ways. (For example, whether or not Superman was an orphan.))

In any event, I once again apologize for any offense which this thread may cause.

- Lynn

Reichenbach Falls, to be precise. That was in the "The Final Problem". He was resurrected in "The Adventure of the Empty House". His explanation for his survival and subsequent hiatus is often seen to be pretty lame; but readers were so excited by having new SH stories available that they tended to be pretty forgiving of that.

cheers,
Lynn

Thanks for the heads-up. Perhaps I'll add it to my Netflix queue.

Ah, now I understand. I had been sticking to the LnC universe partly because its the one I know fairly well and partly because, since it contradicts the greater mythos in some major ways, it made sense to me to stay within its confines rather than trying to reconcile the differences.

In the LnC universe TOGOM is very important, but in the context of the all-encompassing Superman mythos the impact of TOGOM is all but non-existent.

That's an interesting take. I rather suspect, though, that if Jesus had been the somber, stilted, almost cardboard character that he is often depicted as, he would never have had a following in his lifetime. Certainly, children would never have wanted to run up to see him. Nor would the folks who are considered by many to be the dregs of society (prostitutes, tax collectors) -- people who are not know for their hyper-religiosity.

As for physical robustness, I would imagine that a carpenter, who surely would have had to have schlepped large pieces of heavy wooden furniture, would probably be able to match Dean Cain muscle for muscle.

I certainly do not deny that. To add another major difference to my list: Dan Brown aside, Jesus was not known to have had any romantic interest in anyone. (Although it does say in the new testament that he was tempted in EVERY way common to man.)

BTW, I like the pics you used.

I agree with you that that is a strong similarity.

Thanks for adding some interesting points to the conversation. I am thoroughly enjoying reading what everyone has posted in this thread thus far, whatever the points of view. And I'd like to thank everyone again for being so civil with disagreements. :-)

cheers,
Lynn

No need to apologise at all, Lynn. Besides I don't think anyone was offended by your idea. People will agree or disagree with ideas - that's what makes for an interesting thread. The comparison is one that has been tossed around before, as well as comparisons with other concepts of 'superman' or alien outisders. Nietzsche anyone? or Frankenstein? or ... ?

c.

I can't quite let go of this subject. I find it so interesting, because religions are very influential in the world of today.

The most important similarity between Jesus and Superman is that both are "saviours". They are, of course, very different kinds of saviours. Jesus is a "spiritual saviour", because the New Testament says that Jesus sacrificed himself so that the faithful ones could live forever in the Kingdom of Heaven, which is an otherworldly paradise.

Superman, on the other hand, is very much a champion of this world, even if he was not born on it. Superman puts out fires, catches plunging airplanes, digs out people buried underneath collapsed buildings and landslides, and nabs criminals.

Indeed, Superman makes the Earth a better place. Which again reminds me of Siegel and Shuster, the two Jewish boys who created Superman when they were seventeen years old. I have no idea how religious Siegel and Shuster were or how much they knew about Judaism, but I do know that there are prophesies in the Old Testament which describe the awaited Messiah as an earthly champion, someone who makes the world a better place. Remember that the Messiah was supposed to be the Son of David, and David had been a hugely successful warrior king. There are verses in the Old Testament which speak of the Messiah as the Son of David who will liberate Jerusalem and the promised land, and from this land, once the Messiah has gained control of it, will come forth a blessing that will change the whole world.

Superman, unlike the Messiah, has never been depicted as a warrior and never as a king. He has never been any sort of ruler. But surely you have to agree with me that Superman is the very essence of the idea of the benevolent champion who makes the world a better place, by using his great powers to force it to become better, if persuasion doesn't work.



Superman versus Hitler in the 1940s. Hitler's "pal" in this comic, if I remember correctly, was Stalin.

So in conclusion, we might say that Superman is more like the Messiah of Judaism than he is a true Christ figure.

Ann

But Ann there are thousands of people who do these 'saviour' type physical activities. We've recently seen examples of selfless attempts to save others in the horrific eartquakes in Hati and Chile. So many other examples, present and past - especially where people risk their own lives to rescue strangers.

Clark Kent isn't the only one. Also, perhaps, given his near physical invulnerability we should discount his 'saviour-like tendencies' compared to those of his companions.

Also, there are all those wonderful people who show us the way with their generosity, empathy, and wisdom. Perhaps it's this spiritual component that matters even more than the physical saving. (unless of course you're the one whose life has just been saved )

btw, I get a kick out of those comic books scenes you include every once in awhile. Also those astronomy shots but that's OT here Actually, maybe not given we've strayed into the heavenly in this thread.

c.

It's a quote, from Monty Python's Life of Brian

Forgot to add that Superman was dead at least once in the 1960s (I think), and Batman has also been dead before. It's REALLY common if a comic book character seems to be losing impetus, an easy way to get more attention paid to the story.

If you want a REALLY messianic character the last couple of years of Doctor Who take some beating. Literally ascending carried by a flight of angels in one of the Xmas specials, repeatedly dying to save us, etc. etc.

Whoops. I guess its time to rewatch that movie. It's been a couple decades since I last saw it.

I guess that makes sense. And if that doesn't work, the character could always stay dead and the comic book companies would then move on to more profitable characters.

I guess he's currently a far cry from Tom Baker et al.'s doctor, then. I have only seen part of one episode of the new doctor; I hadn't been impressed either with him or with his companion. (I can't recall her name, but she was a stereotypical slacker and did not seem to present (m)any redeeming qualities, at least IMHO.)

Thanks for the clarification, Marcus.

cheers,
Lynn

Smallville does the God/Jesus thing with Clark too. Clark was "crucified" in the pilot ep.





There have been other episodes, but since I don't really watch the show, I'm not very good with examples. I know there was an episode called Saviour, but I don't know what all was touched on in that one. I do know that in one episode, Oliver was grousing at Clark about being a god, and said to him, "Not everyone believes in the Second Coming."

Someone with more Smallville knowledge could maybe give better examples.

Oooo... I loved that movie. "Blessed be the cheese makers."

ML

Lynn, we're going to have to re-educate you about the tenth Doctor Who. I could never understand what people saw in the show in the Tom Baker days, but I can watch David Tennant over and over. But I know, I'm straying off topic here.

We now return you to Lois and Clark . . .

Ah...We're up to the tenth Doctor now? The last I saw was #9. I don't get any TV programming coming into the house, either via cable or over the airwaves. I don't watch much TV (LnC being a decided exception to this!), and what I do watch is via VoIP. Hmmm...I just did a bit of quick online research and found that we are actually up to #11.

Ah well. To be honest, although the show is fun, I never got really into it myself; I was sort of a Whovian by proxy -- a couple of friends of mine in high school were serious fans (one even knit himself a scarf), and so I watched some episodes just to keep up with them.

So how can I relate this to LnC....Hmmm...Have there been any Superman/Doctor Who crossover fanfics? And I wonder what Leela would make of Superman's flying?

cheers,
Lynn