Lois & Clark Forums
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 09:52 AM
I started to rewatch the series, and I thought I’d share some of my thoughts on the episodes as I go along. Last night I watched the Pilot.

I’ve always thought “Lois and Clark” had a really good Pilot. Looking back on it, I don’t think the series gets the proper credit it should have for being a pretty fresh take on the Superman story while still remaining very true to the Superman story at the same time. Considering that both “Superman Returns” and “Smallville” were heavily influenced by the Christopher Reeve films, I think “Lois and Clark” deserves a lot of credit for doing its own thing.

Now, I can appreciate Christopher Reeve’s take on Clark Kent/Superman, but I always preferred the take on Clark being played as a three dimensional character and not just Superman’s bumbling disguise. I think that Dean Cain did a great job of providing us with a Clark Kent who was very much fleshed out as a character, and that’s what I like most about him.

Teri Hatcher gave us a great portrayal of Lois, as well. What I think interested me the most about her Lois Lane was that she was such a complicated character. Throughout the Pilot, I found her to be smart, tough, a little mean at times, cocky, funny, and vulnerable. To be able to play all of those different traits, especially the bad traits, and still come out as a likeable character is quite an accomplishment, and I feel like Teri Hatcher deserves a lot of credit for that.

John Shea’s Lex Luthor is one of my favorite villains of the show. The main reason for that is probably that he’s such a complex and interesting character. Publically, he’s charming and lovable, but privately, he’s ruthless. That’s a really interesting combination to me.

I think the show had a really wonderful supporting cast. My personal favorite is probably Cat Grant. I always liked her rivalry with Lois, and I missed her when she left the show.

One of the scenes that really stuck out to me in the Pilot was the scene where Clark flies over Metropolis. Clark Kent flying is not something you usually see in any Superman story, so I guess the fact that the scene was so unique is what I like about it.

The other scene I really enjoyed was the montage of different costumes Clark wore when Martha was designing his costume. It was a nice touch of humor.

Does anybody have any thoughts they want to add?
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 10:30 AM
I agree. I like that they Deborah Joy LeVine took the Superman canon (comics) and did her own thing. I love that Clark Kent was the real Superman and the tights were his disguise. He seemed more real than the Reeves character who gave up everything he was before once he learned about his true heritage.

I also like that they made Perry White different and gave him his own catch phrases apart from what was known.

Michael Landes' Jimmy was a more rounded character than the ones I had previously, especially in the Chris Reeves film, where he was just happy-go-lucky. I think Justin Whalen' portrayal was more the stereotypical Jimmy.

I loved the Cat Grant character and was disappointed when she disappeared without a good-bye at the end of S1. She was totally underutilized in the series, which is why she's playing a larger role in my current story. [Linked Image]

Martha and Jonathan were perfect. Wise, unique, and very real and not the stereotypical country / farm folk.

I don't know if Lex ever tried to romance Lois in the comic canon, but that was a new take on the Triangle built for two. He really threw a wrench into Clark trying to romance Lois, especially in the pilot, when Clark flies off the handle just because Lois is going to interview Lex.

I really liked the Lucy character too. She really helped humanize Lois and make her more well-rounded and grounded in reality. I was disappointed that she faded into the woodwork before episode 4.

I do have to disagree with you on this point:
Quote
Considering that both “Superman Returns” and “Smallville” were heavily influenced by the Christopher Reeve films, I think “Lois and Clark” deserves a lot of credit for doing its own thing.
Smallville's pilot was unique in the fact that it had the meteor shower which brought Kal-El to Smallville basically destroyed the town, killing and injuring a lot of people. Sure, there was that whole picking up the truck homage, which I could have lived without. I liked how Kal-El's arrival influenced everyone's life around him, including Lana's and Lex's, even before they met. I also liked the friendship that grew up between Lex and Clark. It made Lex's transformation to evil, even more sinister.
Posted By: Lynn S. M. Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 10:33 AM
I like your idea of a running commentary on the episodes.

The montage is one of my favourite scenes of the entire series. The other is one you hadn't mentioned.

I became hooked on the show when Clark said, "You like to be on top. Got it." And the irony is that I don't usually enjoy double entendres. But this one was so well done that I couldn't help but like it. The setup for it was brilliant.

I, too, enjoyed seeing *Clark* flying. Of course the powers don't arise from the suit, and there is no reason that Clark couldn't fly in civvies, but it is still a bit jolting (in a positive way) to see him do so. I'm not sure why; maybe we've become so accustomed to seeing comic book heroes in tights and capes flying that we've become inured to how shocking seeing a man fly would really be. Somehow, the simple change to everyday clothes makes the surreality of it apparent anew.

Joy,
Lynn

edit: I have a very different opinion of Cat. I strongly disliked her character and was glad to see her go. She didn't fit into the show. To me she felt like a character thrown into the show solely to appeal to hormonal teenage boys. (And yes, I do know that her character is based on one that is in the comic books. That doesn't change my feelings toward her.)

I do agree with you strongly, however, in that I like Clark being the real persona and Superman the disguise. It makes a lot more sense to me that a being like Clark would invent a Superman persona than that a being like Superman would invent a Clark persona. The old radio show indicated that Superman established the Clark persona so that he could be in a newsroom to be able to hear of crises as they happened. But Superman could have attained the same end simply by hovering near a news establishment and using his super-senses to get the news. He then wouldn't have had to deal with the hassles of coming up with convenient excuses to leave the newsroom to go to a rescue. That rationale just doesn't fly with me, if you'll excuse the expression.
Posted By: Sue S. Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 10:39 AM
Oooh, fun!

It's been ages since I've seen the Pilot in its entirety, but I can share my first impressions because they've never left me. From the first I was hooked by the fact that Clark Kent was the real person and Superman was the disguise. It makes sense to me. Even in the comics, he was raised as Clark. To suddenly abandon that at adulthood seems strange. It was a revelation to me to have Clark not only still be Clark, but to also not have him be a complete bumbling pushover. I knew I loved the show the moment he said "You like to be on top. Got it." I loved that he was going to call Lois on her crap. And I loved, loved, loved the character of Lois.

Like you said, she was a great mix of vulnerable and tough and sometimes downright mean, and yet you found yourself rooting for her.

I loved that their first meeting wasn't some "meet cute" or big production. I loved that she practically ignored him while he was clearly smitten.

The writing that first season and into the second season was fabulous. There was banter and an understated sexual chemistry that the show lost when Deborah Joy Levine left. I loved the costuming with its nods to the 30's and 40's. Some of the plots were terrible, but the characters saved it for me.

Ah, good times. I read/write fanfic now to recapture the fun of those first couple of seasons. thumbsup
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 11:02 AM
Quote
I have a very different opinion of Cat. I strongly disliked her character and was glad to see her go. She didn't fit into the show. To me she felt like a character thrown into the show solely to appeal to hormonal teenage boys.
Oh, I so totally disagree with you, Lynn. Sure, there was that 'teenage boy appeal' aspect to Cat's character, but she was there to show that Clark Kent wasn't some guy that would jump in the sack when some pretty woman hit on him. Cat helped show what a sweetie Clark was and how truly in love with Lois he was. Plus, she was a great foil for Lois. It also didn't hurt that Cat made Lois jealous, even though she didn't like that 'hick from Smallville'. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 11:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by VirginiaR:
She was totally underutilized in the series, which is why she's playing a larger role in my current story. [Linked Image]
Interesting. Which story is that? I'd like to read it.

Quote
I don't know if Lex ever tried to romance Lois in the comic canon, but that was a new take on the Triangle built for two. He really threw a wrench into Clark trying to romance Lois, especially in the pilot, when Clark flies off the handle just because Lois is going to interview Lex.
I agree. Lex's romance with Lois made him even more dangerous, and it was an interesting element of the series.

Quote
I do have to disagree with you on this point:
Quote
Considering that both “Superman Returns” and “Smallville” were heavily influenced by the Christopher Reeve films, I think “Lois and Clark” deserves a lot of credit for doing its own thing.
Smallville's pilot was unique in the fact that it had the meteor shower which brought Kal-El to Smallville basically destroyed the town, killing and injuring a lot of people. Sure, there was that whole picking up the truck homage, which I could have lived without. I liked how Kal-El's arrival influenced everyone's life around him, including Lana's and Lex's, even before they met. I also liked the friendship that grew up between Lex and Clark. It made Lex's transformation to evil, even more sinister.
This is true. Overall, I think "Smallville" did a lot of original things and wasn't just a copy of the movies. I do think that it took more from the movies than "Lois and Clark" did, though.

Quote
Originally posted by Lynn S. M.:
[qb] I became hooked on the show when Clark said, "You like to be on top. Got it." And the irony is that I don't usually enjoy double entendres. But this one was so well done that I couldn't help but like it. The setup for it was brilliant.
That was another good scene. I forgot about that one.

Quote
Originally posted by Sue S.:
[QB] The writing that first season and into the second season was fabulous. There was banter and an understated sexual chemistry that the show lost when Deborah Joy Levine left. I loved the costuming with its nods to the 30's and 40's. Some of the plots were terrible, but the characters saved it for me.
I agree. The first season is probably my favorite season of the show.
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 11:33 AM
Quote
Interesting. Which story is that? I'd like to read it.
That would be Wrong Place, Wrong Time, Wrong Clark (AKA "Wrong Clark"), basically, I'm restarting the show popping Alt-Clark into canon Clark's role. evil
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/28/12 08:59 PM
Quote
Overall, I think "Smallville" did a lot of original things and wasn't just a copy of the movies. I do think that it took more from the movies than "Lois and Clark did, though.
I agree. "Smallville" is a totally different take on the characters than "LnC". SV starts out in darkness, with people dying in the meteor shower, and it remains rather "dark" throughout. To me, it's a much more serious show than LnC, which is a romantic comedy par excellence. The entire "tone" or "air" of the two shows are different.

I like them both, each in their own way. I have to agree with Sue S. that the first two seasons of LnC are the best and the banter is the best!
"Smallville" tried to recapture this in its later seasons with Erica Durance as Lois, but in my opinion, she could not measure up to the standard that Teri Hatcher set.
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/29/12 09:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by IolantheAlias:
"Smallville" tried to recapture this in its later seasons with Erica Durance as Lois, but in my opinion, she could not measure up to the standard that Teri Hatcher set.
I don't think she was quite as good as Teri Hatcher, either, but I will say that I like Erica Durance quite a bit and she came pretty close to Teri Hatcher for me.

I'm thinking about changing the title of this thread to "Lois and Clark Episode Discussion" and just posting my thoughts on each of the episodes in this thread as I go along so that I don't flood the forum with a bunch of different episode discussion threads. Does anybody think that would be a good idea?
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/29/12 10:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
I'm thinking about changing the title of this thread to "Lois and Clark Episode Discussion" and just posting my thoughts on each of the episodes in this thread as I go along so that I don't flood the forum with a bunch of different episode discussion threads. Does anybody think that would be a good idea?
Are you worried about flooding your inbox? razz ), it wouldn't get lost within the discussion on what a waste of space 'Smart Kids' was? laugh Although, I do see (and have made already blush ) a lot of crossovers references between Episodes threads. You could always post this as a question on the Polls. We haven't had a new poll for a while.

EDIT: You could post a new thread each week to coincide with what's been watched over at the IRC (as they watched Toy Story this week, The Pilot would be back up on rotation in two weeks, right?)
Posted By: LabRat Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/29/12 10:56 AM
I agree with Virginia. Individual threads for each episode would be neater, I think. It would also mean that each thread could be added to in a much more coherent manner in the future, should a new member want to chime in about a particular episode.

I wouldn't see it as flooding the forum - more stimulating it.

I've been enjoying the discussion this far and look forward to more. smile

LabRat smile
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/29/12 12:26 PM
OK, then I'll continue to make individual threads. laugh
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/29/12 02:27 PM
I believe it was a tactical mistake on Clark's part to have Superman confront Luthor originally at the end of the Pilot. By doing so he allowed Luthor to see his cards. First, Luthor denies that he had anything to do with Antoniette Baine's death, but as soon as he sees that Superman isn't going to hurt him or take him to the authorities with these unsubstanciated claims, he shows his true colors by saying one of my favorite of his lines: "Let the games begin." clap

This scene reminds me of a preview of what's to come in the "Never-Ending Battle" and the confrontation scene there.
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 06/05/12 09:41 AM
So, Lois obviously went into space. She doesn't leave the transport when Superman does (to fly it to space). Plus, enough time has passed to have newspapers around the world to print the "Flying Man" story (and Flash across our screen), before Superman flies Lois into the DP Newsroom and dub him "Superman". Cat teases her about the "Mile High Club" with Superman (although I believe that was in "NeverEnding Battle") on the Space Station. So, how long do you think Lois was in space? How did she come back? It must have been enough time for her to shower (and wash that gel out of her hair) and change. I have my theories.

I'm thinking that if she came back on the regularly scheduled transport, she would have been detained and questioned by EPRAD for hours about what happened (regarding the bomb and Superman) during the launch. Somehow, I think she averted this mess. In Another Lois I suggested that canon Lois was returned to Earth in a spacesuit she borrowed from the Prometheus Space Station and in the arms of Superman. huh What do you think?
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 06/06/12 10:26 PM
Virginia, I like your reasoning. It makes a lot of sense.

Here's another fic that explains why Lois changed her clothes between leaving EPRAD and coming to the Daily Planet: CC Aiken's excellent "In A Better Place" . As it says in the description, "A villain with a plan puts a love story on fast-forward and a world on the brink of extinction. Plus, there are donuts."

How can you go wrong with donuts? wink
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 06/22/12 10:04 PM
A fic I just had to recommend:

Like A Red Rock To A Superman by Pam Jernigan, Wendy Richards, and Sara Kraft.

The events happen right after Clark deals with the Prometheus in the Pilot episode... but things take a little bit of a left turn after that! laugh
Posted By: Lynn S. M. Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 06/23/12 05:25 AM
Hi Iolanthe,

Thank you for adding pointers to fics based on the episodes. Several of the ones you recommended I have already read and enjoyed; the others are about to go onto my Kindle. :-)

Joy,
Lynn
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 06/24/12 10:42 PM
Lynn: There are so many great fanfics here and on the L&C Fanfic Archive. They deserve to be read, and re-read.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 09/26/12 03:02 PM
The Pilot establishes the strengths of the series. Since we go 75% or more of the pilot, over an hour in fact, without ever seeing Superman it defeantly establishes Clark as the real identity.

On the other hand, in the very first seen we see Clark we see him do something Super. Part of me wonders if it would not have been better to have the stopping the bus scene after he gets turned down for a job by Perry. I guess CK=SM is so well known, that it would not help.

Also, in the pilot at least they live up to putting Lois first in the show name. Although that is largely just a play on Lewis and Clark, we see Lois first and about as much as Clark overall in the Pilot.
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/17/13 04:28 PM
I want to add that the fact that Martha and Jonathan are such a big part of the show is another reason why I love “Lois and Clark” so much, and since this is the first episode where they were introduced, I think this is the best place to share my thoughts. In past adaptations of the character, I’ve noticed that Clark never seems to visit his parents after he leaves Smallville, which just doesn’t seem realistic. Of course, Jonathan was always killed off before “Lois and Clark,” but Martha was usually still around. To be fair, you can argue that Clark probably visited his mother off-screen in the older adaptations of the characters, but I prefer the way that “Lois and Clark” made them such a bigger part of the show.
Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/17/13 10:46 PM
I've always liked Superman, and I was extremely excited when I heard that they were making a new tv show about it. Watching the pilot first-run was awesome.

I like that they completely glossed over the whole how-Clark-got-to-Earth-and-why-he-has-powers explanation, since everyone and their dog already know that. They addressed it later in the series, of course, when Clark found out, and that worked well, but it would have been a waste of time to go over it in the pilot.

I know that most of the previous comments are most of a year old, but I thought I'd comment on parts of them anyway smile :


Quote
I like that they Deborah Joy LeVine took the Superman canon (comics) and did her own thing. I love that Clark Kent was the real Superman and the tights were his disguise. He seemed more real than the Reeves character who gave up everything he was before once he learned about his true heritage.
This has a lot to do with Pre-Crisis vs. Post-Crisis portrayals of Superman. Before 1986, Clark Kent was very much a disguise for Superman. (Though I think this may have mellowed later into the 70's. I'm more familiar with Superman comics from the 60's and before.) He thought of himself as Superman dressed up as Clark. This shows in Christopher Reeve's portrayal. He's very Kryptonian and mourns his lost home, which he remembers. He was a toddler when he arrived on Earth. In 1986 DC Comics restarted things, even going so far as to have Kryptonians gestate in a "birthing matrix" so that he's technically born on Earth when the Kents open his spaceship. Earth is the only home he's ever known. In that continuity, he's very much Clark disguised as Superman. This works much better if he's going to get together with Lois. smile

Quote
I loved the Cat Grant character and was disappointed when she disappeared without a good-bye at the end of S1.
I wish that they at least had some mention of her leaving. It would have been nice if she had stayed, though. There weren't many regulars in the office besides Lois, Clark, Perry, and Jimmy. I think they could have made greater use of her, especially if they toned down her hitting on Clark once he hooked up with Lois. Or maybe they should have made her hit on him more and induce jealousy. devil Overall, though, I wish that they had dressed Cat in office-appropriate attire. She could still be tarted up, just be more formal about it, but most of her outfits wouldn't fly in an office where the men are expected to wear a tie and suit coat.

As a side note, the Cat actress shows up as a regular character in season 5 of Babylon 5. I can never remember the character's name, so I just call her Cat. I can't really see that actress as anyone else.

Quote
I don't know if Lex ever tried to romance Lois in the comic canon...
Not that I've ever seen. It doesn't mention that pairing in my Superman encyclopedia, either.

Speaking of the show Smallville:
Quote
I also liked the friendship that grew up between Lex and Clark. It made Lex's transformation to evil, even more sinister.
That's based on a comic story from the 60's where Superboy and Lex were friends in Smallville. An explosion in Lex's lab burned off his hair, and he blamed Superboy for it. According to that comic, that's where the animosity started.

Quote
In past adaptations of the character, I’ve noticed that Clark never seems to visit his parents after he leaves Smallville, which just doesn’t seem realistic.
Clark visits his parents plenty in Superman the Animated Series. He never visited his parents in Silver Age comics because they were dead. They were still alive in early 90's comics, but I haven't read much after the early 80's to know how often they showed up since then.
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/18/13 05:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mrsMxyzptlk:
Quote
In past adaptations of the character, I’ve noticed that Clark never seems to visit his parents after he leaves Smallville, which just doesn’t seem realistic.
Clark visits his parents plenty in Superman the Animated Series. He never visited his parents in Silver Age comics because they were dead. They were still alive in early 90's comics, but I haven't read much after the early 80's to know how often they showed up since then.
I actually bought "Superman: The Animated Series" on DVD recently, and I'm planning to watch it sometime this summer. I haven't seen it in years, but I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

The versions of the character that I was actually talking about where he never visited his mother is actually "Adventure of Superman" (with George Reeve) and the Christopher Reeve movies. I can give the Reeve movies some leeway since Martha was said to be dead by the third movie, but "Adventures of Superman" lasted six seasons. I don't think his mother is ever even mentioned after the first episode. It's one of the few things about that show that I didn't particularly care for.
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/18/13 05:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
"Adventures of Superman" lasted six seasons. I don't think his mother is ever even mentioned after the first episode. It's one of the few things about that show that I didn't particularly care for.
Doesn't his mother tell him when he leaves for Metropolis to go live his life and don't look back?
Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/18/13 07:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VirginiaR:
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
[b] "Adventures of Superman" lasted six seasons. I don't think his mother is ever even mentioned after the first episode. It's one of the few things about that show that I didn't particularly care for.
Doesn't his mother tell him when he leaves for Metropolis to go live his life and don't look back? [/b]
Or maybe his visits home weren't "adventuresome" enough to mention on the show. wink
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/19/13 05:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VirginiaR:
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
[b] "Adventures of Superman" lasted six seasons. I don't think his mother is ever even mentioned after the first episode. It's one of the few things about that show that I didn't particularly care for.
Doesn't his mother tell him when he leaves for Metropolis to go live his life and don't look back? [/b]
She might have told him that. It's been awhile since I've seen the show. If that’s the case, I still blame the writers just a little bit because Clark can still easily visit his mother even if he lives in Metropolis.

Quote
Originally posted by mrsMxyzptlk:
Quote
Originally posted by VirginiaR:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
[b] "Adventures of Superman" lasted six seasons. I don't think his mother is ever even mentioned after the first episode. It's one of the few things about that show that I didn't particularly care for.
Doesn't his mother tell him when he leaves for Metropolis to go live his life and don't look back?

[/b]
Or maybe his visits home weren't "adventuresome" enough to mention on the show. wink [/b]
I think the writers could have thought up one adventure that takes place in Smallville that could send Clark back there for just one episode. I’m not saying that they needed to show her frequently or even in more than one episode after the first episode. I’d have just liked at least one episode acknowledging the fact that Clark still kept in touch with his adoptive mother. At least the Christopher Reeve film had that one scene mentioning sending part of his check to Martha after he was hired at the Daily Planet. I don’t remember him mentioning anything about her after the first episode of “Adventures of Superman.”

To be clear, the lack of Martha and Jonathan doesn’t really take away from my enjoyment of the Christopher Reeve films or “Adventures of Superman.” I really like both versions a lot. It’s just that the fact that Martha and Jonathan were given bigger roles on “Lois and Clark” is one reason why I like that show just a little bit more than the others. smile
Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 04/20/13 09:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
It’s just that the fact that Martha and Jonathan were given bigger roles on “Lois and Clark” is one reason why I like that show just a little bit more than the others. smile
Martha and Jonathan really added a lot to the show. They are good foils for Clark and a good source of advice. This version of Clark really needed them because they were his only confidants. He doesn't have Bruce Wayne as a best friend, he doesn't have any League to relate to, and for a long time he doesn't have Lois to confide in. Some other versions of Superman (like the comics in the 30's and 40's) were total loners without confidants, but this Clark seems much more emotionally vulnerable, and, frankly, more human, and he needs that connection more.

Martha really pulls off that mix between traditional farmer's wife and modern, educated woman. I like the montage of her designing Clark's suit, but it raises a lot of questions and points out abilities that never really get mentioned again. Martha can't just sew. She can design clothes. I've sewed a little bit, and I can follow a basic pattern, but that's a far cry from being able to come up with a pattern from scratch. There's a lot more you have to know to be able to whip up a dozen different skin-tight, well-fitting outfits the way she did. Then there's the question of where she got the fabric. Presumably, all that stuff could be stocked at the local fabric store in Smallville, but the staff at the store are probably her long-time friends and would ask her what sort of project she was working on. Gossip ensues. Maybe she could have some reasonable excuse the first time, but people are going to get suspicious if she's routinely buying copious amounts of red and blue fabric and thread. I figure Clark flew her to some large city somewhere where she could be reasonably anonymous. Then, once they've decided on the suit they should buy a huge amount of the fabric in bulk under a false name, if need be. They don't want to run the risk of that particular shade of blue spandex becoming unavailable. She's probably also got a fancy, expensive embroidery machine to make new S-shields. Those get singed reasonably often.

Wow, I didn't expect to rant so much about Martha's sewing. It's a good thing they settled on the red and blue, though, because I can't see Superman going over as well dressed in leopard print. wink
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/07/13 09:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VirginiaR:
So, Lois obviously went into space. She doesn't leave the transport when Superman does (to fly it to space). Plus, enough time has passed to have newspapers around the world to print the "Flying Man" story (and Flash across our screen), before Superman flies Lois into the DP Newsroom and dub him "Superman". Cat teases her about the "Mile High Club" with Superman (although I believe that was in "NeverEnding Battle") on the Space Station. So, how long do you think Lois was in space? How did she come back? It must have been enough time for her to shower (and wash that gel out of her hair) and change. I have my theories.

I'm thinking that if she came back on the regularly scheduled transport, she would have been detained and questioned by EPRAD for hours about what happened (regarding the bomb and Superman) during the launch. Somehow, I think she averted this mess. In Another Lois I suggested that canon Lois was returned to Earth in a spacesuit she borrowed from the Prometheus Space Station and in the arms of Superman. huh What do you think?
That seems reasonable to me. On the "Mile High Club" line, that is from Neverending Battle, but it still makes it seem that Lois was up on the space station.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/07/13 10:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lois_Lane_Fan:
Quote
Originally posted by mrsMxyzptlk:
[b]
Quote
In past adaptations of the character, I’ve noticed that Clark never seems to visit his parents after he leaves Smallville, which just doesn’t seem realistic.
Clark visits his parents plenty in Superman the Animated Series. He never visited his parents in Silver Age comics because they were dead. They were still alive in early 90's comics, but I haven't read much after the early 80's to know how often they showed up since then.
I actually bought "Superman: The Animated Series" on DVD recently, and I'm planning to watch it sometime this summer. I haven't seen it in years, but I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

The versions of the character that I was actually talking about where he never visited his mother is actually "Adventure of Superman" (with George Reeve) and the Christopher Reeve movies. I can give the Reeve movies some leeway since Martha was said to be dead by the third movie, but "Adventures of Superman" lasted six seasons. I don't think his mother is ever even mentioned after the first episode. It's one of the few things about that show that I didn't particularly care for. [/b]
My main gripe about that show was at least in Season 1 they did at least 2 Lois-free episodes, and others where she had no role. I think with Ma Kent they just had that actress for the first episode, and did not have the budget to bring her back ever.

On the Superman the Animated Series issue, it was made after Lois and Clark, so we still have Lois and Clark being the first time we have identified Clark connecting with his parents on a regular basis.

I thought his calling them and visiting them made sense. However starting in season 2 they started coming to Metropolis way too often, and almost never by Superman express. I understand why they did that for story telling purposes, but it did not make sense that farmers from Kansas could afford that many flights to Metropolis.

Oddly enough Martha and Jonathan seem to appear more in the show after Lois knows that CK=SM. However it makes sense, Lois looks to Martha for motherly advice she would never take from her own mother.

One thing that was never addressed in Lois and Clark is, does Lois sew? My gut reaction is "no". It seems too domesticated for her, but maybe. In "Don't Tug on Superman's Cape", Clark goes to Martha to get new super suits after the helicopter destroys his. Still, Lois is just his girlfriend at that point.

I just had a thought.
Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/08/13 11:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by John Lambert:
I thought his calling them and visiting them made sense. However starting in season 2 they started coming to Metropolis way too often, and almost never by Superman express. I understand why they did that for story telling purposes, but it did not make sense that farmers from Kansas could afford that many flights to Metropolis.
I found that odd, as well. How can they afford the airfare all the time? I would expect Clark to be out in Kansas much more than the Kents would be going to Metropolis. Also, whose parents go visit them at work and become friends with their boss? If my parents came to town, the last place I would expect them to show up would be my office.

Quote
One thing that was never addressed in Lois and Clark is, does Lois sew? My gut reaction is "no". It seems too domesticated for her, but maybe. In "Don't Tug on Superman's Cape", Clark goes to Martha to get new super suits after the helicopter destroys his. Still, Lois is just his girlfriend at that point.
I wouldn't expect Lois to sew, either, but didn't she make Alt-Clark's suit? I seem to remember Lois sitting at a sewing machine in Clark's apartment. Where did they get the sewing machine for that? It's been a while since I've seen it, so my memory of the scene is fairly fuzzy.
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/08/13 02:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mrsMxyzptlk:
I wouldn't expect Lois to sew, either, but didn't she make Alt-Clark's suit? I seem to remember Lois sitting at a sewing machine in Clark's apartment. Where did they get the sewing machine for that? It's been a while since I've seen it, so my memory of the scene is fairly fuzzy.
Lois and alt-Clark brought the machine in when they brought in the material and ski suit. Lois isn't a domesticated woman. She doesn't cook, she doesn't (really) sew, I can't imagine her ironing or canning or growing veggies in community garden. She's too busy for all those things, and she lives in Metropolis where people will do those things for her. Should she get a hobby, I can't imagine it would anything in that range. Personally, I don't mind that, in this way, Lois isn't like Martha. It shows that women can be strong when they know those things (Martha) and even when they don't (Lois). I'd hate for Lois to try and be more like Martha, she's great the way she is.

One of the things that bothered me about S4 was the writers' desire to try to tame Lois after her marriage to Clark by making her more domesticated, by making her *want* to cook (who would *want* to cook, if they aren't great at it and are married to someone who is? Not me!), and by making her baby crazy at the end. They should have let Lois and Clark be married and deal with sharing their lives before being ready to try to bring children into their relationship. They were still young (and one of them would be for a while), so there really was no rush.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/12/13 08:03 PM
Quote
I found that odd, as well. How can they afford the airfare all the time? I would expect Clark to be out in Kansas much more than the Kents would be going to Metropolis. Also, whose parents go visit them at work and become friends with their boss? If my parents came to town, the last place I would expect them to show up would be my office.
Well, Clark does spend a lot of time at the office, and his girlfriend is their, and he has a deep relationship with Perry.

Anyway maybe they first met Perry at the Daily Planet fair at the start of "The Source". That at least made sense because Martha wants to get Jonathan away from Kansas so he does not brood on the recent death of a relative, plus it is possible they came Superman express. At least it is not one of the times they explicitly come by normal means.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/12/13 08:13 PM
Quote
One of the things that bothered me about S4 was the writers' desire to try to tame Lois after her marriage to Clark by making her more domesticated, by making her *want* to cook (who would *want* to cook, if they aren't great at it and are married to someone who is? Not me!), and by making her baby crazy at the end. They should have let Lois and Clark be married and deal with sharing their lives before being ready to try to bring children into their relationship. They were still young (and one of them would be for a while), so there really was no rush.
I have to agree with both points. I think on the baby crazy think they just figured it was the next step, but really they should have waited until the next season. Although frown there was not one.

On the cooking thing, I guess maybe there is some idea that some women feel they should be good cooks, but I thought in "Chip Off the Old Clark", we established that Lois would let Clark do the cooking, so really, the whole thing didn't make sense. Unless "Ghosts" is an intentional build-up to "I've Got You Under Your Skin", since the whole Lois cooking in there allows them to postpone her realizing that Clark is not really Clark.

Although, to be entirely fair, Lois does not just start cooking after she gets married. She cooks a whole Christmas dinner in "Seasons Greedings". Hmm, on that line you can't have as frazzled a Lois in "The Night before Mxymas", if she has not learned to cook. Although, actually, since that is after "Ghosts", it would almost be better continuity if Lois was like "yeah, Jimmy, bring Brenda, I am really excited, I love that I am now such a great cook, and want to show it off to more people". OK, cooking for large groups is still difficult, but this is another place where it seems like they forget about a development from a previous show.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/12/13 08:19 PM
I think they went too far in turning Lois and Clark into a home-based sit-com after their marriage. I had actually forgotten there were any scenes at the office in "Ghosts".

It was a bit much when both Lois and Clark were working on stuff related to their apartment instead of actual stories.

On the other hand, Toy Story, especially Lois telling the story of Superman to the children, was one of my favorite scenes of the entire series, so I can't complain too much about the Lois wants to be a mother dialogue. They are in their late 20s, so having kids is perfectly reasonable. Still, I have to agree that being so worked up about it after just a few months of marriage, especially when she spent some of those in jail, was a bit much. Especially after they were willing to wait so long between their failed wedding and the real one. grumble grumble grumble at "Small World After All" not being the marriage episode.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/12/13 08:22 PM
Ok, I really think they should have never done the faked out wedding at all. I would even be semi OK, if Lois and Clark get married, then Luthor stages a major disaster some where else, that Clark really has a compelling reason to respond to, and promises to be back in half an hour. Clark keeps his word, comes back only 10 minutes later, but during that time Lois has been replaced by a clone.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/17/13 12:27 PM
I was just re-watching the and I noticed that in the introductory credits they do not credit K Callan and Eddie Jones but they do credit Elizabeth Barondes. It seems that they originally planned on making Lucy Lane a significant part of the story of the show, but for whatever reason she very quicly vanished from it after the first 3 episodes. I think it was a missed opportunity, but I guess a Jimmy/Lucy relationship would have detracted from Lois and Clark.
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/23/13 09:55 PM
I realize that I haven't posted very many fanfic recommendations for "Pilot"-related episodes. I need to correct this omission. There are lots of excellent fanfics related to this episode.

I love alt-beginnings, and there are many of these. Wendy Richards has several, three with similar titles. There is Strange Visitor From the Congo , where, to quote from the description: "In an alternate-alternate universe, Lois Lane, newly returned from the Congo, meets Clark Kent, top reporter at the Daily Planet. They are soon partners and on the cusp of something more, but two minor problems stand in their way -- Lois can't stand Superman, and someone wants Lois dead."

And in Strange Visitor Revisited , "Lois knows and Clark knows she knows. This awareness brings a different perspective to the events which follow, as both Lois and Clark begin a process of reassessment, not just about their changing relationship but also about themselves."

The third on this theme is Strange Visitor: The Evil Vignette by Wendy Richards and Tank Wilson. Here, when Trask and his bullies barge into the newsroom, Clark betrays himself and Trask finds out that CK=SM. Things go on from there! Wendy wrote an excellent sequel to this in Don\'t Be A Stranger .

Another fic that starts at the events of "Strange Visitor From Another Planet" (yes, I know I'm cheating, but this technically qualifies as a beginnings fic) is Chris Carr's Learning Curves . "Lois stumbles across some information about Superman that he doesn't even know himself. As they embark on a quest to discover more about Superman's alien origins, Lois and Clark find plenty of other lessons to learn as well."

Jessi Mounts has a snappy little vignette in Between Floors 7 and 8 . There must have been a fanfic challenge once about "Lois and Clark stuck in an elevator" because this is one of those stories, and a very good one.

I just love Master of Disguise by BJ. Here, Lois has married Lex Luthor, Clark is a reporter in San Francisco, and Superman has just made his debut. It's a good thing that Lois has seen through Lex's machinations, and needs an excuse to go off and investigate while she sets up Lex's downfall. What better story to investigate than Superman, and who better to investigate him with than with Clark Kent, the reporter who broke the original Superman story?

I also love Caroline K's work, and she has two alt-beginnings fics. One is the awesome Field of Dreams - poetic, romantic, deeply moving. Don't miss this one - it's something special.

Caroline's other fic is Stardust : "After being turned down for a job at the Daily Planet, a dejected Clark Kent attempts to drown his sorrows at the Stardust Lounge, where he meets a beautiful and mysterious woman calling herself Wanda Detroit."

The prolific Carol M. has several fics about beginnings, or alt-beginnings. I can highly recommend First Night , where Lois and Clark meet years earlier than in the Pilot. (Another fic on this "early meeting" theme is Shayne Terry's The Family Hour .) There is also the gargantuan Learning to Love and the even more gargantuan On The Other Hand . You'd best pack a change of socks and a basket lunch when you set out to read these. smile Carol also wrote some sequels to these, but I'll let you discover them yourself.
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/23/13 10:31 PM
Continuing some fanfic recommendations on "Pilot"-based fics, or at least fics about the beginning or first meeting of Lois and Clark.

Anonpip wrote A Triangle With Three Sides - what if Clark didn't want to become Superman?

Some fics about alt-Clark are those written by Margaret Brignell. She wrote a whole series of his beginnings, the "Only You" series. It starts with Only You: If Only and continues for four more excellent fics.

Chris Carr penned the extraordinary three-hankie weeper, Some Kind of Angel . Lois is dead - she died in the Congo. What is alt-Clark's life like? His Lois is missing. Canon Lois went back to her own dimension. What does he have to live for? What can happen from here? Despite my description, there is a happy ending.

Shayne Terry writes about alt-Clark meeting Lois via newspaper ad in Single White Kryptonian . "Single white Kryptonian male, 27 seeks native counterpart for companionship or more. If you're an intelligent, ambitious professional female, I'll sweep you off your feet and take you for long moonlit flights above the clouds. Agoraphobics need not apply. Non-smoker preferred."


I love Pam Jernigan's Tryst , which is best described by the Archive blurb: "Lois may have died in the Congo at the hands of a clever villain, but that won't stop our heroes from getting the best of him. Destiny has decided that Lois and Clark *will* meet and fall in love -- a little thing like death won't be allowed to interfere." Quick summary: Ghost Lois meets alt-Clark, and they fall in love. smile
Pam has another fine fic about alt-Clark meeting Lois in In Any Universe .

ML Thompson tells us what might have happened if Tempus never intervened in the alt-world in The Other Woman . Alt-Clark is married to Lana, and then Lois Lane returns to the Daily Planet after being in the Congo. Will Lois be content with being the "other woman"? (Hint: No.)

And what if alt-Clark decided to rebuild Herb's time machine (you know, he did see the plans) and go back in time to try to save his Lois from death in the Congo? Things might not go all that smoothly, in ML's The Time Traveler\'s Wife .

ML is probably the queen of well-written, engaging, fun-to-read alt-beginning stories (not just about alt-Clark, but alternate beginnings in general.) She's got several:

in Cause and Effect , Lois and Clark meet up four years prior to their official canon meeting at the Daily Planet. Will true love triumph, or will terrorists get in the way?

What if Lois meets not Clark, but Lord Kal-El of New Krypton? Well, ML tells us what might have happened in Escape From New Krypton . Tons of action, alien invaders, kryptonite, stalwart newspaper editors, and true love.

What if Lois was convicted of murder (e.g., the events of "The People Vs Lois Lane") but Clark wasn't there at the Planet? What if he were hired to replace Lois because she had to go to prison? And what if he tried to prove her innocence? Don't miss Guilty Until Proven Innocent .

What if Lois had the powers, right from the beginning? A Matter of Destiny tells us what might have happened.

And in Without Checking The Water Level , our heroes again meet earlier and in a different place than in canon.

Geez, I think I've recommended half of ML Thompson's oeuvre. There are so many other good authors whose fics deserve recommendation too, and I'm sorry if I miss anyone's favorites.

Deadly Chakram has a thought-provoking and interesting fic in Specimen S . "What if Jonathan and Martha Kent were not the ones to find the infant Kal-El? Just how much of life is chance? And how much is fate?"

Tempus has another evil plan in Yvonne Connell's chiling Misery . Let's just say that Clark must overcome more than the usual amount of adversity.

Raconteur boldly dispenses with part of the usual mythos - in her trilogy of fics, Clark and Lois do NOT work at the Daily Planet. Instead, in the Lifeflight series, they are physicians.

In Shayne Terry's Duet , Clark Kent is a hot-shot musician with a secret to hide, and Lois Lane is an entertainment attorney who wants to sign him to a contract.
Posted By: John Lambert Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/24/13 08:54 PM
It appears that the pilot is the most built off of episode. I guess that makes sense, because if you build off of it, you can go just about anywhere. Plus it is longer than the other episodes, and has such fun characters like Samuel Platt.

Although I have to admit I think of "Master of Disguise" as more of a Fall of the House of Luthor fic. Although they mention Luthor's personnel assistant in the Pilot, we do not learn her name is Mrs. Cox until "Barbarian at the Planet".
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/24/13 09:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by John Lambert:
Although I have to admit I think of "Master of Disguise" as more of a Fall of the House of Luthor fic. Although they mention Luthor's personnel assistant in the Pilot, we do not learn her name is Mrs. Cox until "Barbarian at the Planet".
I was just about to point out that exact thought, John. It's a great story, but since it has more to do with Lois marrying Lex and the death of the DP, it belongs over at HoL. Terrific read, though!
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/25/13 08:01 PM
Quote
Although I have to admit I think of "Master of Disguise" as more of a Fall of the House of Luthor fic.
Quote
I was just about to point out that exact thought, John. It's a great story, but since it has more to do with Lois marrying Lex and the death of the DP, it belongs over at HoL.
You're right, of course. I just wanted to recommend it one more time. smile

Another story on this theme (Clark comes to Metropolis late, after Lois has already married Lex) is Sheila Harper's In The Beginning . Another good read.
Posted By: IolantheAlias Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 07/25/13 08:04 PM
Getting back to some more recommendations, on the comedic side there is Super... Who? by Wendy Richards and Tank Wilson. Remember the scene where Lois is being flown into the newsroom? I love this bit from the fic, based on that scene:

Quote
This amazing flying man was someone she knew. Someone she worked with. And she was pretty sure that she knew who he was.

Okay. Check newsroom. Who was present and who wasn't?

Perry was sticking his head out of his office - not that Spandex Guy was Perry, anyway. Ralph was staring goggle-eyed in her direction. Eduardo was leaning against a desk, looking cynical. That new researcher was doing his best to look bored and
failing.

And at the front of the crowd, easing his way past the gawping women, was the next name on her mental list. She crossed him off, then gave him an irritated look. She'd thought he was attracted to *her* - not that she wanted him anyway. But here was Clark Kent staring at Mr Incredible Spandex Guy with a look she could only describe as awe!

Not that Kent mattered right now. One final name to check off. As she'd expected, he wasn't there. And now she knew the truth.

The incredible flying guy in lurid Spandex was Jimmy Olsen.
You'll just have to read the story to find out more! smile

Bobbart has a hilarious little vignette in Lois Lane Meets Superman . As Bob says, "Lois Lane has managed to sneak aboard the EPRAD colonization module and is waiting for launch. On the surface everything looks like the story we know so well. But appearances can be deceiving." Don't miss this short-but-good gem!

Continuing the hilarity are Pam Jernigan, Wendy Richards, and Sara Kraft in their collaboration, Like A Red Rock To A Superman . Red K and Clark don't mix well, and that's all I'll say about that. laugh

I forget if I already recommended this one but it's well worth redundant recommendations. Plus, although it's dramatic and romantic and action-filled, it also has a lot of humor. It's CC Aiken's In A Better Place , which tells us what might have happened if, during the interview at EPRAD right after Superman makes his first appearance, Tempus had come and whisked Lois and Clark off somewhere. Where? Well, you'll have to read the fic to find out. Bonus: As the author says, "Plus, there are donuts."

What if Lois has married someone else? Like Claude? If this frightens you, then don't read Tank Wilson and Wendy Richards' Missed Opportunity, or Too Late to Love .

And what about this situation in Wendy and Tank's Soul...Mates? : "Clark Kent arrives at the Daily Planet fresh off a visit to an alternate universe, and therefore armed with the knowledge that Lois Lane is his soul mate. Imagine his surprise when he is finally introduced to his new partner ... Lucas Lane."

There's a twist ending in HappyGirl's and Female Hawk's The Hottest Team in Town . Lois Lane is married!!! To... wait for it.... to JIMMY OLSEN? shock
Posted By: Lois_Lane_Fan Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 09/11/13 05:06 PM
I've told this story before in another thread, but I think it's worth a second mention here. Over the summer, I spent a couple of days in Metropolis, IL and met Tracy Scoggins during the Superman Celebration. While she was signing a photo for me, I told her that I was a big fan of Cat Grant and that I thought it was funny how she was always able to get under Lois' skin. She then asked me if I remembered when Cat hit Lois in the face with her coat, which most of you will probably remember happened in the "Pilot." I told her that I remembered the scene. Tracy then said that Cat hitting Lois with her coat wasn't in the script. She'd adlibbed it, and according to her, Teri was fuming afterwards.

I've included a couple of screencaps of the scene I'm talking about.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Ultra Woman Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 09/12/13 06:49 AM
Quote
I don't know if Lex ever tried to romance Lois in the comic canon
A bunch of comics trivia... In the comics Lex was too old to romance Lois (he and Perry were around the same age and Lex was the natural father of Jerry White). But after Lex had cancer in 1993 he feign his death and went through a rejuvenation process, coming back as Lex Luthor Junior, supposed son of Lex Luthor and Dr. Gretchen Kelley raised in Australia (Leslie Luckabee, anyone?). During this time, he made a pass at Lois and she rejected him.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Andreia
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 09/12/13 09:12 AM
And here I thought Clark's ponytail was bad. eek What was wrong with hair in the comics that year? Lex looks like a lion. hyper yea! Lois! dance
Posted By: VirginiaR Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/18/15 05:33 AM
This idea was brought up on my FDK thread for Wrong Clark, but why exactly is Lois so desperate to show up at Lex's Orchid Ball with a date? If it was so important for her to have a date, why did she then ditch him shortly thereafter to stalk Lex Luthor? Jimmy, Perry, and Cat all seemed to be there without dates (although, I'm sure Cat was planning on leaving with one). If it's a business function (or for a story), why does she need a date? Any theories?
Posted By: dcarson Re: Pilot Discussion Thread - 05/22/15 05:20 AM
Dating is something she is bad at. So showing up without one is an admission of failure.
© Lois & Clark Fanfic Message Boards