Missing Lois has made the grade.

8886 KB in Rich Text format
2298 KB in docx format (Word 2007)

485,386 Words

1756 pages, double spaced.

Michael asked whether I was going to Archive it as a series or as an Epic. I do have it broken up into 10 chapters -- approx 230KB -- but each Chapter usually ends with a cliffhanger, so I had planned on submitting it as an Epic.

It might be easier to read as a series though (especially since each Chapter is a file). I would love recommendations or suggestions from the expert Archivists. Thanks.

Especially Labrat since she now knows exactly how big it is.

As I still haven't received a responce to this... I'm bumping it back up!

From a record-POV, epic might be more fun. From a reader's POV, getting 10 parts of a normal-long story is much less daunting and easier to get into since you feel like you can tackle it in chunks. Not that it will actually happen that way once you get started, but that's a different story.

I like being able to download one epub file to read on my iPod Touch.

Sorry, Virginia - I didn't actually spot the thread until just now.

Actually, there isn't any choice on this one.

Whether a story is tagged as an epic on the Archive depends entirely on the word count. It's as mundane as that.

And the Archive - unlike a lot of other fanfic websites out there - doesn't accept stories in chapter form. Your story must be complete on submission.


LabRat

I know you've said that on previous occasions, but I get confused when I see other stories like Female Hawk's Time to Love Series. (not to get any other writers in trouble, this just happens to be the first one that popped out to me). Or is that considered 1 story and 3 sequels?

On the technical side, LabRat, is it possible to send more than one file on the submission form or do you want me to combine ML into one gigantic file? I'm thinking the former might be easier to GE (although, I think SQD said something about submitting Ch 1-4 to you already GE'd when she read-through for Beta).

PS: I was referring to ML as an "Epic" more as a nickname than a classification.

Oh, I am absolutely certain that if you trawl through the Archive you'll find examples that have slipped through the net. With an Archive the size of ours and the length of time it's been on the go, it's inevitable that mistakes will have been made over time.

And, in fact, TTL, is a recent example of just such an error. It wasn't picked up by the GE that it ended in a cliffhanger and it didn't come to my attention that it was a story in chapter form and not yet complete until two or three parts were already on the Archive.

Once I became aware of it, I did inform FH that since I hadn't been innundated with complaining emails, I didn't see much point in removing the parts already on the Archive and we'll continue to upload the rest in parts. Once the final part has been submitted, I do intend to remove the parts and replace them with one, complete file.

That seemed the easiest way to solve that mistake. But if I start to get complaints, of course, then it can be removed entirely until FH is ready to submit the complete, final version.

I don't know about the submissions form, but if you want to submit a complete story to me in more than one file, you certainly can. Although I don't think it's really necessary. We're quite used to dealing with epic stories and large files. But it won't make much difference either way, so long as the story itself is complete.

LabRat

Thanks for the info, LabRat.

When ML is ready to Archive I'll try to send it, broken up into the part files, on the Submission Form. If it doesn't work I'll e-mail you the rest. Just my personal preference not to have one huge hunking file out there to crash things.

Okay, LabRat, now that I've had time to think about it; I'm extra confused.

What differenciates a complete story vs. a story and sequel?

I realized as I prepped Green-Eyed Monster for the Archives, it might not be considered "complete" since I wrote (and am now posting) the sequel Nightfall Honeymoon. Would Nightfall Honeymoon be considered continuation of Green-Eyed Monster or a sequel? Should I hold off submitting GEM until I can submit NH with it? I consider them two different stories that have the same characters. Where do you draw the line?

For the purposes of the Archive, a complete story will have a distinct beginning, middle and end. It will not end in a cliffhanger or 'To Be Continued...'

A series of stories works in much the same way as a series of novels. Some series of novels contain books which are complete stories in their own right, yet still part of an over-arcing whole. The Narnia series, for example. Each adventure comes to a distinct end at the end of each book, but they form a series overall.

Other series of novels have each book ending with a cliffhanger and to be continued.

The Archive accepts the first type of series, but not the second.

For your two stories, specifically, it's difficult to decide without reading entire stories. I had a quick look at the end of GEM, but couldn't really tell either way if it was a definite ending or a TBC.

It would be a definite ending, I guess, if the adventure contained in that story had been concluded and the conversation with Lois and Jimmy was just end-of-episode type banter to round things up. But, again, I really couldn't tell definitively either way on just that small section of end text. Sorry!

Perhaps you can match the explanation above with your more comprehensive knowledge of the story as a whole and figure it out either way.

Hope that helps.

LabRat

/has PTSD for Song of Ice and Fire trying to make an Archive upload. Good things it's pro fic and has nothing to do with LnC. Otherwise, a whoever got to GE it in another decade or so would probably go bonkers

On a more serious note:
In which category fall episode-adaption series that also end where the episode ended. Even if it's a cliffhanger in the big picture but got a distinct plot-arc on its own, too. Yes, I do like to find the edge cases

Michael

Sorry, Michael, I can't visualise what you mean by this. Most episodes end definitively. Unless it's a two-parter, of course, then the first part would have TBC. And I've read that second sentence five times now and am no closer to understanding what you mean by it than I was the first time.

Maybe it's just getting late. I'll have another go tomorrow, after some caffeine.

LabRat

Just a guess Labby but say a series ep adapts of the ARGH eps. Each one adapts one ep, but also, necessarily ends on a cliffhanger.

I want to say there's [a very old so not necessarily relevant but...] series that took the argh and rewrote each one where Clark was 'in the know' the whole time, but changed very little else.

Would those be posted as one story or could they be posted as separate fics?

Just my take on what Michael said .
C

As you know, Labby, I'm perfectly happy for you to do that. However, I think it could be argued that the first four TTL stories *do* have a beginning, middle, and end. In some ways, they are like episodes on the show - a story within themselves, even though there are continuing threads - such as the developing relationship between LnC.

My main reason for saying that is to highlight the difficulties in dealing with inevitable grey areas. You do a great job!

Ironically, the fifth TTL story definitely ends on a TBC!! Perhaps I should archive the fifth and sixth stories together.

Corrina.

Which is why I asked if it (TTL) was a first story and sequels...

Some could say the same with GEM and NH. GEM arc dealt with L&C meeting and falling in love -- and some might argue Clark being a lunkhead extraordinaire -- finished at the end. It works with or without a TBC, which is why I stated it was a full story.

The end of GEM was where Nightfall Honeymoon began (sorry for the spoiler). And NH deals with "the honeymoon / asteroid" arc (again, if you haven't figured this out by the title, sorry), which either could be the second bounce of the same ball (to use a bad sports metaphor). Or perhaps the ball was caught and it was a new bounce all on its own.

Ah, okay - thanks for that, Carol. Okay, if I'm understanding you correctly, that doesn't strike me as a terribly difficult one.

It is possible, if a story is written in a particular way, for a cliffhanger ending, although a cliffhanger, to still provide for a definitive ending.

Did that make sense to anyone outside my own head? Probably not.

Just like many horror novels, say, which often end on a cliffhanger or twist ending, but still leave the reader with no sense that a sequel is planned or that it's part of a series, but with a sense of closure, simply because it's written that way. We recognise that the story is standalone and has ended in a satisfactory way, with no need for more, even though we've been left dangling.

So such an ending can serve both functions.

I guess the simplest answer for that is to say that we'd have to judge each story on its merits as submitted and see whether it fits into the above category or not. If it did then it could certainly function as a seperate, complete story and be uploaded to the Archive that way.

But, then - which answers Corrina and Virginia's question - that's pretty much the criteria for all submissions anyway. We really rely on our GEs to make the judgement since they are the ones reading over the entire story and can best see whether it ends abruptly or with closure.

LabRat

Oops, I think I missed a reply there. But then, Carol's picked up the slack just great

Michael