When Corria opened "Treasure Chest" with the Bob Angst Meter Reading I was both amused and appreciative. I can't help that I'm particularly sensitive to these sorts of things.

It reminded me of something that I had worked up last year but didn't show. In light of Corrina's use of the B.A.M.R, I thought I'd go ahead and share this. What follows is the original post I worked up but never shared.
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The LnC Peace of Mind Threat Advisory Warning System

I don’t know how common it is but I am often nervous about approaching some stories due to angst anxiety. As well as things are organized here, I am almost surprised that there isn’t some kind of a story advisory system. I got this in my head the other day and it’s been rattling around.

Therefore I offer the following for consideration. (With proper consideration to US Homeland Security.)

Red: Deathfic or Major Bummer ending.
Orange: Severe angst. Major characters may die. Happy ending possible but will likely have some negatives involved.
Yellow: High to moderate angst that will be largely resolved. Happy or at least non-negative ending.
Blue: Moderate angst. Happy ending.
Green: Little to no angst. Story is intended to be uplifting with guaranteed upbeat ending.

I’m guess I’m not seriously suggesting such a warning system. But sometimes, I wish such a thing existed.

Bob

I think this is a great idea for authors who wish to use it. I suggest we call it the BAMR and use your colour code system.

So I'm amending my rating for Treasure Chest -

BAMR - Yellow.

As one who sees angst as a spice or herb rather than a major food group, I had to smile at your ranking system, Bob.

This too:
Who was it who defined 'happiness' as the absence of pain?

Which made me think: define "angst". And when does angst tip a story into the melodrama or soap op category?

So then it became difficult to know how to apply your ranking system. (my former GE self there )

But I do understand why you thought of the system. As a reader, I really appreciate the wham, angst and death fic warnings that writers give, and so I got a kick out of reading your system.

c.

Me? Society in general? "Happy Ending" is the cliche phrase, as in "And they lived happily ever after". Although I suppose we could specify "minimal to no lingering pain or sadness, with no looming difficulties implied" versus "satisfying yet bittersweet ending" Though I personally would refer to that as a "hopeful" ending, not a happy one. The kind of thing where they come through the crisis, triumphant, but still have a mess to clean up & aftermath to deal with.

I would say, for example, Wendy's 24 Hours has a hopeful ending (after a very high angst content), while her When Larry Met Charlie has a happy ending, following minimal angst. Without Consent (nfic) has very high angst, but a happy ending. So maybe angst content needs to be evaluated separately from the happiness of the ending.

And then there's Kathy's way of specifying whether it's "together angst" (24 Hours) or "apart angst" (LabRat's Masques).

Endless possibilities, of course. Still, speaking as someone who's got a low angst tolerance, it might not be a bad idea if authors choose to use some system like this. With the caveat that *no* system is going to cover every eventuality, and that all judgments are subjective.

PJ

I think this is the biggest problem with implementing such a system. Setting aside my personal dislike of warnings in general, I have read a few fics in which the author has warned of angst, and when I got to the end I was confused and disappointed, and wondered where the angst actually was because I never came across any. See, I *like* a bit of angst, but what some people class as 'angst' I class as a small, easily resolved argument/misunderstanding etc.

Bascially, anything under a yellow on the BAMR I would not consider angst, and I have to wonder whether I would class some (obv. currently theoretical) yellows as angsty, either.

Still, if anyone ever is worried about the level of angst in my fics, feel free to send me a PM and ask, because the closest you will get to a warning from me is a statement along the lines of 'I don't like warnings, so I'm not giving any'.

- Alisha (who, despite how this reply may sound, does understand why people like Bob who don't like angst, may wish for such a system)

These are all good points and are at the heart of why I didn't suggest this when I first came up with it last year.

I see two problems:
1. I certainly understand that as an author you don't want to telegraph your ending. Any system such as this provides a certain level of foreknowledge that may be undesirable.
2. How do you rate the reaction of a person to a particular story? As Pam said above: Anyway, I was certainly not trying to tell anyone that they have to rate their stories.

Bob

No, that was quite clear. Your idea has merit despite the couple of flaws with its subjectivity, it's an idea worth discussing. Maybe, along with the WHAM Warning Thread, we could have an optional 'Bob's Angst Metre Reading Thread' instead of including the readings in the Author's Notes.

- Alisha (who, for the record, isn't seriously suggesting this either )

This is what I thought when I received Iolanthe's beta of my fic. To me, my fic isn't angsty because there is very little screaming and in-your-face conflict. But Iolanthe saw the emotional suffering as angst. Therefore, as Pam said, it is going to be very subjective.

For me angst between Lois and Clark rates as more distressing than angst involving them and, for example, a baddie intent on killing them.

It's always going to be up to the author to decide how much he/she wants to foreshadow. Sometimes authors are going to want to keep the nature of the ending secret until the final part is posted. Sometimes authors will be willing to say whether the ending is happy, but leave the readers guessing as to exactly how that will play out.

I think some form of the system is a good idea for those who wish to use it.

Corrina.

Oh, we have a system.

That was the very reason why we invented the WHAM warning system - to accommodate as much as possible both readers who wish to be warned and those who don't and authors who don't like to warn at all.

So long as we remain dedicated to the idea that no author should be forced to include a warning and that it's entirely a matter of individual author choice - which we firmly are - I'm not sure what more can be done. Unless someone knows better, of course, and can come up with a better idea.

Bob's system though, can certainly be used within the WWT system to refine down what an author means by a warning. Within, of course, the restrictions that others have already pointed out - that it's an extremely subjective line where angst lies. Or anything else for that matter. One FoLC's funny fic is another's..."huh?" for example.


LabRat

I've been interested in what types of situations people perceive as examples of "angst" and also how they react to that angst.

Now I have my own working definition of the term, being a person of strong opinions as I am. But Corrina's post prompted me to actually, gasp!, check a dictionary def - Merriam-Webster (who is Merriam, btw?)

Corrina wrote:

So 2 quite different perceptions here.

Here's what Mr. Webster and his mysterious sidekick says:
The date and place of origin is interesting I think - certainly a time of some angst for the Danes - sort of ironic where they borrowed the term from.

(and yes I know Webster wasn't around in 1942.)

I wonder if there's such a term as 'angst-inflation' ?

c.

Okay, just checked my gargantuan, gazzillian-paged Oxford (I got up an hour earlier this morning and am now on my 3rd cup of coffee) and it gives much the same def - 'anguish' as a synonym. But origin is centuries earlier, in older ('archaic' - lovely word!) language.

re Labrat's comment that humour is something that we percieve differently:
Oh yes - ever find yourself finding a story funny that wasn't, as it turned out, intended that way? Ever been in a movie theatre and laughed at bits that no one else did? and vice versa. Think clowns - funny or The Joker in Batman 1 (and the only decent Batman movie, I might add)

c.
addit: So are there readers who sometimes find Angst Funny???