So, I'm struggling with a story here. There is going to be a scene in it that's going to be terribly difficult for me to write, so maybe I'll skip it altogether. Anyway, if I include it, I'm going to have a little Mexican girl say "Help, Superman!" in Spanish. What would she say?

Ann

I've moved your post into here, Ann, because you're seeking help for a fanfic. So it's on topic for this folder.

Anyway, you're more likely to get it seen in here than in Off Topic, which is generally less visited by board members than this folder.

LabRat

It's been a long time since 9th grade Spanish but IIRC "ayuda" means help.

If you need more translations there are some really good sites. Try BabelFish.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Sue

Thanks, Sue! Actually, I found that word myself, but it's really good to hear that you, too, think that "ayuda" is the word to use. Now, hmm, I wonder. Is there a Spanish way of saying "Superman"?

Also, since the little girl is crying for help, I'm sure I ought to put an upside-down exclamation mark before those words, "Ayuda, Superman!" But I'm using a Swedish keyboard when writing this, a keyboard with keys for the Swedish letters å, ä and ö, but there sure as heck is no key for an upside-down exclamation mark! Those of you who use American (or British) keyboards, do you have a key with such an exclamation mark? If not, how do you put such a very Spanish punctuation mark anywhere in you texts?

Oh, and thanks to LabRat, too, for moving my post to its proper folder.

Ann

Since it's his "name", I think she would just call him Superman. But maybe there's someone here who's seen LnC dubbed in Spanish and can tell us what they call him. I'm pretty sure it's "Superman."

As for the inverted exclamation point, if you're using MS Word, press Alt+Ctrl+!

Thanks, C_A! I'll definitely try that Alt+Ctrl+! trick. It might work!

Oh, eh, I was just thinking... no, she wouldn't call him "Superhombre", would she?

Ann

Ayuda does mean "help", but when calling for help, she'd probably be more likely to use the word "socorro". An upside down accent mark can also be made with Alt 173 (on the numeric keypad). Finally, I've heard Superman called "El Hombre de Acero" (The Man of Steel) in Spanish, although you wouldn't use the "El" when addressing him directly:

"¡Socorro, Hombre de Acero!"

Just a note of caution: sure, that upside-down exclamation mark is correct, and you can get it to display on the boards, but since the Archive works in plain-text only you'll have to remove it from your story before submission (or your GE will remove it), because on the Archive it'll turn into gibberish.


Wendy

Thanks, Vicki! That was really very helpful!

Also, Wendy, I thank you for pointing out the fact that I can't upload a story to the Archive if it contains upside-down exclamation marks. Actually, the version I'm writing right now is nfic, and as to whether I'll ever be able to turn it into gfic, well, we'll see. So I guess I'm saying that my story may never end up on the Archive.

Ann

Actually, I've always heard "ayudame", "ayuda" being the imperative form of the verb, "me" being the reflexive part that indicates who's speaking. I can't say I've ever heard "socorro", though it does also mean help. I'd consider "ayudame" more colloquial, but thats because I live so close to the Mexican border and hear Mexican Spanish a lot.

Also, in the episode Ultra Woman, one of the cries for help was "¡Ayudame <something indistinct, which was probably her name>, ayudame!"

That it was in the episode that way, of course, doesn't mean it's *the* correct way.

Sara (who's wondering where all our native Spanish speakers have got to )

Thanks, Sara! It's amazing how much good advice I'm getting here!

Well, I think of the little girl as a Mexican immigrant living in California, so I would certainly like her to speak a Mexican kind of Spanish. So I'll follow your advice and change her call for help for the third time! (and all this procrastination also means it will take longer before I'll have to deal with the rest of the scene, which I sorely fear will require things that my knowledge of the English language will not be able to adequately deal with at all....

Ann

I'm here!!

With... Superman, Ayuda!!!! will be ok Ann

Jose

Thanks, Jose!

Actually I'm getting a little confused... but Jose, you live in Spain, don't you? Not in Latin America? Not in Mexico? Not in a part of the United States where there are a lot of Mexican immigrants?

So, while you obviously are the best Spanish speaker of us all, I think I may be taking Sara's advice after all, seeing that she lives so close to the Mexican border.

Ann

I grew up in San Diego, half an hour from the border. I still live in Southern California, and my school district has a large hispanic population. I was also taught Spanish (presumably the Mexican variation) in school. I would go with "Ayudame". My mom agrees, and she has worked with many Mexican immigrants.

My Spanish isn't Mexican Spanish, so if people close to the border say it's "ayúdame", go with that.

Well, in the spanish dubbed version, Luisa (that's Lois - her name is Luisa in the spanih version) yell "Ayuda, Superman!". She doesn't say "Ayudame", but it's correct to write it that way too. "Ayuda" = "Help" and "Ayudame" = "Help me". The two forms are imperative.

Thanks, everybody! Well, ayudame it is, then!

The scene with the girl is actually an earthquake scene. Am I crazy or am I crazy, trying to write something like that? With my shaky knowledge of all the various bits and fragments you'd find on an earthquake scene, let alone my lack of knowledge of the proper English names of all those bits and fragments? :rolleyes:

At first, I was going to have the girl say "Help, Superman" and that would be it. He would get her out from wherever she was trapped and then go on and rescue others. But I've changed my mind. I feel I'm writing these earthquake scenes so poorly, so the fewer rubble-and-disaster scenes I work into my story, the better. Besides, for interesting reasons, people in my story are actually going to be afraid of Superman in this scene, so they'll chase him away!

So I think that after he has freed the girl, he'll fly away with her, trying to find a hospital for her. (He is actually abandoning the earthquake site, because his presence is just increasing the panic there.)

But this means that Superman is going to spend more time with the girl than I originally intended, so he'll need to speak with her. I like the idea that he could speak English with her and she'd understand, but she would answer in Spanish. He's going to answer what her name is (you know, "What's your name?") and she's going to answer ("My name is....").

What do you think? Maybe he, too, should speak Spanish. I'm sure he knows how to.

He's also going to ask her where her parents are, and she'll reply that she doesn't know.

I'm thinking of writing the story so that Clark flies the girl to Lois, and she is the one who brings the girl to hospital. The girl would ask Lois if Superman is her boyfriend. I think that she would ask the question so that it means "Are you two seeing each other? Are you in love?" rather than "Are you two married?"

So, right now, I think I may be needing the following lines in Spanish:

Thank you, Superman. (surely that would be "Gracias"? Or am I spelling it wrong? Maybe that was Italian?)

Are you all right?

What's your name?

My name is....

Where are your parents?

I don't know.

This is Lois. Lois, this is....

Hi.

Lois will take you to hospital.

Does your leg hurt?

Not much.

Good-bye.

Is he your boyfriend?

Please don't ask. And please don't talk about it with others.

I won't. They are afraid of him.

I'll leave you now. I'll be back.

When?

Don't know. Listen. I'll ask two nice people to pick you up. Martha and Jonathan. That okay?

Wow, people. Guess I'd better teach that girl to speak English in a jiffy, won't I, or else you'll have to write the entire story for me!

Anyway. You have been wonderfully helpful so far, and if anyone would like to help me with these new lines too, I'd very, very much appreciate it!

Ann

Gracias, Superman.

Estas bien ? (the familiar form) or Esta usted bien? (the polite form)

Como te llamas ? (the familiar form) or Como se llama usted ? (the polite form)

Me llamo...

Donde estan tus padres? (the familiar form) Donde estan sus padres? (the polite form)

No se.

Hola

Lois te conducira al hospital. (familiar form) Lois conducira usted al hospital (polite form)

Te duele tu pierna? (familiar form)
Se duele usted su pierna (polite form)

No mucho

Adios.

Es tu novio? (familiar form)
Es su novio? (polite form)

Por favor, no pregunta. And por favor, no habla de eso con otros.

No hablaro. Tienen miedo de el.

Ahora me voy. Volveré.

Cuando?

No se. Escuchame. Pediré dos amables personas que vienen a buscarte. Martha y Jonathan. De acuerdo? (familiar form)
No se. Escuchame. Pediré dos amables personas que vienen a buscar usted. Martha y Jonathan. de acuerdo?


Okay. I didn't talk spanish for more than 8 years, but at the time, I was completely bilingual, so I guess I didn't make too many errors. But two things:
- there is accents in many words, but I don't know how to type them with my keyboard so I hadn't.
- all the phrases that finish with ? or ! began by ? or ! upside down. I hadn't typed them because I don't know how to either.

Thanks a bunch, Poussin!!!

Ann

You're welcome. But as I said, I hadn't said a word in spanish in more than 8 years, so you should ask some other spanish speaker for any tippoes or grammar error... I'm not very sure of myself for some of my phrases. It was so long time ago last time I did it!

Let me edit a couple of things (I won't be fixing the accents, though):

Te duele la pierna?
Le duele usted la pierna?

Por favor, no preguntes. Y por favor, no hables de eso con otros. (familiar form)
Por favor, no pregunte. Y por favor, no hable de eso con otros. (polite form)

No hablare. Tienen miedo de el.

No se. Escuchame. Pediré a dos amables personas que vengan a buscarte. [...] (familiar form)
No se. Escucheme. Pediré a dos amables personas que vengan a buscarle. [...] (polite form)

Also, note that the familiar form is the one more likely to be used between a conversation between Superman and a little girl.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Thanks Anna. You're right in your suggestions. Except I have trouble with this:

To translate "don't ask" and "don't talk", we have to use the imperative form "no pregunta" et "no habla", and not the subjonctive present tense "no preguntes" and "no hables". That would be wrong to say it that way.

But you noticed a couple of faults that I am ashamed (I wouldn't never have made them 8 years ago):

wrong: "No hablaro. Tienen miedo de el."
right: "No hablare. Tienen miedo de el."
my god, I'm really ashamed of that one. I knew it, that was "hablaré". Eck, I used the future correctly in others sentences but here, I typed a silly thing. I'm running to hide.

Thanks, Anna! (Are you a language wizard or what, by the way? Clearly, your native language is Greek. Yet you speak - and write - extremely good English, and you have obviously done that for a couple of years now, and you are only - what? eighteen years old? And now you show us your excellent command of Spanish, too.

Wow, Anna. What a language whiz you are!!!

Ann

Okay, that's weird. Where is my Spanish coursebook?

Anyways...

I can't find my coursebook, so as to double-check, but I'm pretty certain I was taught that, when used in negation, the imperative form changes and coincides with subjunctive present. This site agrees with me.

Ann - thank you for the compliments Truth is, I enjoy learning foreign languages, and my teachers have said I'm talented at it. It's practice that makes perfect, though - and hanging around the boards, reading and writing fic, is the best practice one can hope for

Also, I don't know how much it counts coming from a non-native English speaker, but I think your English is excellent If you hadn't said it yourself, I still wouldn't have realized you're not a native English speaker, either.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

My mistake. You're right.

I just asked one of my friend (who is spanish but lives in France) to double-check myself. She just say the same thing to me with the negative and the subjunctive present, but she added that was a written from, and that the spanish rarely use it when they spoke. She said that at oral, they most easily use the imperative, even with a negative. But the correct form is what you said.

OK, to clarify the imperative confusion . . .

For the familiar form, positive is 3rd person indicative, as in the "Ayúdame, Supermán". Negative would be "No me ayudes", using 2nd person subjunctive. Or "No hables", in the other example.

For the polite form, positive is 3rd person subjunctive, as in "Ayúdeme". Negative is 3rd person subjunctive also, as in "No me ayude" or "No hable".

Does that make things a bit clearer? That's what I was taught, and I've studied Mexican Spanish--am in Honduras right now, and they do the same thing.

Okay, people, I'm trying to write that scene now, and wouldn't you know it turns out I need other lines than I thought. Clark has left because of that thing that made people afraid of him. The little Mexican girl is saying to Lois:

"He is gone." (She is making the observation that Superman is gone.)

She is also saying to Lois: "You were sad" (on the night when he left.) Oh, and perhaps she also need to point out that Lois is still sad, so she would say "You are sad" or "You are still sad". Perhaps she would also say: "You love him." Or, perhaps, "You loved him."

Also, when Lois has asked her not to talk to people about the fact that Superman may be Lois's boyfriend, the girl answers: "I promise."

What would this little girl say to Lois?

Ann

Okay, here's the next thing I need the girl to say: "When will you be back?"

Ann

"He's gone" . . . Do you mean something like "He already left?" In my experience, they use "Ya se fue" here, which basically means "he left already, he's gone". That's probably what you want.

"When will you be back?" - "Cuando va a volver?" (Since I assume you want the polite form, this being a girl talking to an adult she doesn't know that well.)

"You were sad." - "Estaba triste."
"You're still sad." - "Todavía está triste."

"You love him." - "Usted lo ama."

"I promise." - "Lo prometo."

If I'm wrong, someone correct me here. Anna's caught a few mistakes of mine before . . .

I think it's correct, Doranwen, but we'll have to wait for Anna to be sure. She's definitely better than I

But I know than in America Latina, they use the verb "amar", but in Spain, they use more easily the verb "querer" to say "love" (yes, in Spain they use the same verb to say "love" and "want" - so when someone say "te quiero", be careful - LOL). So, in Spain, that would be "Usted lo quiere".

Doran's suggestions look fine to me I think I'd leave the 'usted' out, but that's a matter of choice.

Note, Ann, that she's used the polite form. So, if you're going to go with it, you'll have to make sure the girl always uses the polite form when speaking. Otherwise, I (or someone else) could transfer these lines to the familiar form.

(Personally, I think that, if the girl is too little, she might use the familiar form even though Superman is an adult she doesn't know well... but I might be projecting from Greek. Anyways, polite should be okay.)

Also:
"When will you be back?" -- Cuando regresaras?

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Wow, thanks, everybody. Imagine, getting a crash course in Spanish on these boards!

Ann

Chiming in here a little late. I'd say she'd definitely use the polite form. Superman is basically a god to people who don't know him, and she would be in awe. She'd have been using the usted form from infancy anyway, because a lot of Mexican children, especially rural ones, address their parents with "usted", not to mention grandparents and other people.

As an aside, a lot of writers don't try to translate dialogue into another language. It's actually easier for the reader if you give one sentence in the target language, then say something like "Superman continued in Spanish..." and write it in English. Since not all your readers will speak Spanish, and putting translations in a story is somewhat awkward, it's okay to just do it in English. We will all know that the two are speaking Spanish with just a few indicators in the text. Just something to consider.

Hi Ann!

I can't wait to see your fic! I have a suggestion though: you might want to include translations beside the Spanish parts of your story so that people who don't speak a word of Spanish will be able to understand too.

Happy writing!

ChriscyK
(who should have been more diligent in going to Spanish class this year and is in a bit of a tizzy for her exam on the 24th :p )

hope you havnt finnished yet...\\

just wanna say that i think it depends on how old the girl is whether or not she uses familar or formal/polite speech to superman...

8 would be the oldest i could see using the familar form... any older and then they realise they have to be polite... between 5-8 children tend to slip in and out of familiar and formal, not realising to whom they are speaking to... and any younger than that would definately be familiar as even though he is a "godlike figure" they do not know enough of their language to distinguish bettween the formal and informal


but btw...
on a more L+C based note.... does Lois know spannish... i didnt think so....
from untrawoman all the languages are learnt, and are not a superpower.... so i dont think you couuld work that into the story


lol
good luck