Lois & Clark Forums
Posted By: Supermom Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 09:54 AM
In my neverending search for articles about the craft of writing, I found this one and thought you might enjoy it. I look back on my early writings and the cringe factor is high. eek Hope you enjoy and add something to your writing skills.

Quote
Adjectives and Adverbs are NOT Good Description by Laura Elvin

Adjectives and Adverbs are Yuck! (aka Be Specific!)

I didn't learn until quite late in my writing career the damaging effect of too many adverbs and adjectives. Now that I KNOW about them, however, I don't see writing the same. Now, it really stands out when I read writing that is littered with adverbs and adjectives, the poor man's substitute for good description.

Example #1:

"Doris walked silently through the pitch black of the deserted, empty house, fingers pushing lightly on each closed door.

After a little cleaning, and some A/A (adverb/adjective) removal:

"Doris crept through the blackness of the deserted house, fingertips pressing on each closed door.


"walked silently" becomes "crept" (specific verb to replace blasé verb with adverb)

"pitch black" becomes "blackness" (goodness, black is black! no need to say it was LIGHT black or Dark black or anything else... if it's not black, describe it as something else... if it's black, just let it be black)

"fingers pushing lightly" becomes "fingertips pressing" (specific noun and verb to replace a common verb and a common adverb)

Example #2

Matt, one of the biggest men you could imagine, walked heavily through the antique store, while Jessie's eyes looked quickly at each item left quivering in his wake.

After a little cleaning, and some A/A (adverb/adjective) removal:

Matt's behemoth form lumbered through the antique store, while Jessie's eyes darted to each item left quivering in his wake.


"one of the biggest men you could imagine" becomes "behemoth" (simple, yet descriptive)

"walked heavily" becomes "lumbered" (specific verb to replace blasé verb with adverb)

"eye looked quickly" becomes "eyes darted" (specific verb to replace blasé verb with adverb)

These examples were off the top of my head, but I think you get the idea.

The thing to remember is this: Use specific NOUNS and VERBS to do most of your work. Don't be lazy and coat everything with adverbs and adjectives. Use those sparingly. I'm not saying they don't have a place. They do. But when overused, it is a sure sign of amateurish writing. Worse, however, your works won't leave the same impression on the reader as ones where the author is using specific nouns and verbs to tell his story... to SHOW his story.

I read a line recently in a published novel that had a prepositional phrase, a subject, and an object, all so heavily described that I had to read the sentence over THREE times before I saw what the author was trying to say. What was the important part. Yes, we want to "paint a picture" for the reader, but be judicious in what you're showing him.

Consider some of the following:

"he said in a hoarse voice" ~ versus ~ "he rasped"

"she sunk the knife in fast and hard" ~ versus ~ "she plunged the knife in"

"the big fuzzy dog" ~ versus ~ "the malamute"

"the girl who sits in the front office and answers the phone" ~ versus ~ "the receptionist"

"she quickly took the salt shaker from him" ~ versus ~ "she snatched the salt shaker from him"

Hopefully, you get my point. Be specific; it sets a more descriptive picture in the reader's mind and keeps you from sounding like a hack.
Posted By: BanAnna Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 11:01 AM
A very interesting article, but I don't entirely agree with it. Case in point:

Quote
"one of the biggest men you could imagine" becomes "behemoth" (simple, yet descriptive)
Behemoth is not a simple word. It's not a word that's used in everyday conversation, or even in many (if any) books I've read. It sounds more like something you'd see when studying for the SATs or the GREs. I agree that the first phrase used there probably isn't the best one, but behemoth definitely isn't the first word I would think of to replace it.

Thanks for sharing the article, Marylin! smile

~Anna
Posted By: Supermom Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 01:18 PM
Maybe it depends on your exposure to the word. Once you hear it, you don't forget it. My younger son had a 1975 Buick Riviera that he bought with 5 other boys. It was literally a yacht on wheels. My husband and I called it "The Behemoth." laugh
Posted By: gerry Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 02:15 PM
Great article, Marilyn.
The problem that many novice writers and young people have is that in order to write the way Elvin suggests (with a paucity of adjectives and adverbs) one needs a healthy vocabulary which is usually a result of reading a lot.

Well, that was a long sentence.

gerry
Posted By: Anna B. the Greek Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 02:31 PM
This article is excellent, Marilyn. Thanks for sharing.

Quote
Use specific NOUNS and VERBS to do most of your work. Don't be lazy and coat everything with adverbs and adjectives.
I won't disagree at all. In fact, I think it's better this way.
However, I wanted to point out that adverbs and adjectives are very useful to us non-native English speakers. Learning them is easier than learning nouns and verbs, because when you know i.e. the word 'look', it's difficult memorizing more words that mean practically the same thing, as 'stare', 'gaze', 'glance' etc.. My vocabulary has widened since I started reading fics, but I still find myself repeating the same word several times when writing. And surely I can't search the vocabulary for synonyms/specific verbs or nouns whenever I need one...

Just an opinion,
AnnaBtG.
Posted By: BrightFeather Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 07:01 PM
Strunk and White gives the same advice--write with *nouns* and *verbs*.

Laura (who owns a copy of that writer's bible because it's required for her writing classes)
Posted By: Schoolmarm Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/25/03 08:22 PM
Anna said:
Quote
However, I wanted to point out that adverbs and adjectives are very useful to us non-native English speakers. Learning them is easier than learning nouns and verbs, because when you know i.e. the word 'look', it's difficult memorizing more words that mean practically the same thing, as 'stare', 'gaze', 'glance' etc.. My vocabulary has widened since I started reading fics, but I still find myself repeating the same word several times when writing. And surely I can't search the vocabulary for synonyms/specific verbs or nouns whenever I need one...
As a veteran language teacher, I'm going to disagree with you here, Anna. Words are words. There is nothing inherently easier about learning a verb rather than an adverb or a noun rather than an adjective. In fact, from a structural point of view, verbs are the most important words in a sentence, and nouns are the second most important. Adjectives and adverbs are window dressing. Like spices, they should be used with care.

As for seaching the dictionary when you are writing, well, all I can say is 'why not?' It's what we native speakers do when seeking the perfect word.

Schoolmarm
Posted By: Vicki Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 04:07 AM
This is an interesting thread.

Marilyn, thanks for posting this. I enjoyed reading it. I agree with the basic premise of the article - "writing that is littered with adverbs and adjectives, [is] the poor man's substitute for good description." The examples given illustrate this quite well.

Anna, your post made me laugh. Those were my thoughts exactly when I read the sentence with "behemoth"! Ah, the dangers of an overly enthusiastic use of the thesaurus! (Well, to be fair, and as Marilyn points out, some people actually use that word.)

AnnaBtG, I'm positive this article is aimed at native English speakers. Although even for ESL writers, it is still good advice. It will be harder for you than for a native English speaker, but as Gerry points out, it is hard even for native English speakers unless they are well-read and have acquired a large working vocabulary.

Schoolmarm, I think I disagree regarding the ease or difficulty of learning different types of words. An adverb tells "how", while descriptive verbs tell both "what" and "how". Descriptive verbs also have nuances of meaning that make them more difficult to master. As someone who has studied several foreign languages, I'm tempted to say it is easier to learn basic verbs and use them with adverbs, than to learn descriptive verbs. I agree, however, with your statement about a good dictionary (and thesaurus, I would add). All writers, regardless of their native language, should use one.

Well, that's my 2 cents!

- Vicki wave
Posted By: Schoolmarm Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 04:26 AM
Vicki said:
Quote
An adverb tells "how", while descriptive verbs tell both "what" and "how". Descriptive verbs also have nuances of meaning that make them more difficult to master.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, not only have I studied three different languages other than English, as I said, I'm a veteran language teacher (26 years at the job so far) and have thus witnessed first hand the trials and tribulations of thousands of students. And I stand by what I said. Words are words. It is no more difficult to learn that "bavarder" means "to chat" than it is to learn "causer avec quelqu'un de choses et d'autres." (Thanks to le Petit Robert for the definition. As far as the statement that descriptive verbs have "nuances of meaning" -- of course they do, as do adverbs and adjectives. And if one wants to develop proficiency in a language, whether one's own or a second one, learning the words beyond the basic 1500 word vocabulary is what it's all about. I stand by what I said: words are words. And one can choose to learn them in all their richness and variations, or one can choose to limit one's experience.

P.S. As for the word "behemoth," I must admit I'm astounded that any native English speakers think it's an unusual word. I distinctly recall running across it on numerous occasions reading picture books about dinosaurs and other large animals such as whales to my children fifteen years ago.

Schoolmarm ( who is willing to concede that many students seem to have an inherent fear of verbs for some unknown reason )
Posted By: YConnell Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 06:21 AM
Quote
As for the word "behemoth," I must admit I'm astounded that any native English speakers think it's an unusual word. I distinctly recall running across it on numerous occasions reading picture books about dinosaurs and other large animals such as whales to my children fifteen years ago.
Interesting. I just did a straw poll around the office and 20% knew the word but would consider it unusual, and 30% had never heard it. I'm in the 20% - I didn't even know how to pronounce it because I've only ever seen it written down.

But then I was equally astounded last year to discover a native English speaker (with a reasonable secondary school education and of average to high intelligence) who didn't know the word 'terse'. Surely that's an extremely common word!

Yvonne
Posted By: Supermom Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 08:27 AM
Quote
...who is willing to concede that many students seem to have an inherent fear of verbs for some unknown reason
LOL Schoolmarm. I can tell you the reason. It's the verb "to conjugate"! I remember many hours spent conjugating verbs over and over and over. dizzy

Laura mentioned Strunk and White. The authors I work with overwhelmingly (yes, I know that's an adverb wink )advocate the use of SELF-EDITING FOR FICTION WRITERS by Dave King and Renni Browne. It's clear, concise, explains )among other things) why adverbs and adjectives should not be overused (overuse is indicative of a novice writer and signifies weak dialogue) and that having a reader run to the dictionary every other paragraph to look up a word throws readers out of the story (and indicates the author is more enamored of their vocabulary than drawing a reader into the story). It's said that you have one chance to make a good first impression. I believe that's true of writing as well. Many's the book I have tossed aside because I'm not hooked in the first few paragraphs. I tossed one night before last because the author was doing more telling than showing (which is a whole nother issue) and I felt like I was standing on the outside looking in rather than being pulled into the story.
Posted By: daneel Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 08:37 AM
Quote
who is willing to concede that many students seem to have an inherent fear of verbs for some unknown reason
In English?

Jose (who thinks that after the Spanish verbs, conjugate the English ones are easy wink )
Posted By: ChiefPam Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 09:38 AM
Quote
SELF-EDITING FOR FICTION WRITERS by Dave King and Renni Browne
Yep, I've got that one. (Along with "Words Fail Me" and "Sin and Syntax" goofy )

I do think we need to remember, though, that there's a huge range here in writing experience and ambition. These kind of discussions are great for those of us who are interested in this kinda thing, but for a lot of people, they're beside the point. They (we) write for fun, not to satisfy literary editors somewhere, and I wouldn't want to make anyone feel inferior over something like adverbs smile

PJ
Posted By: Supermom Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 10:24 AM
Quote
...I wouldn't want to make anyone feel inferior over something like adverbs.
Like they've not been made to feel inferior over less? wink
Posted By: Vicki Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 10:24 AM
Well, I, for one, think "behemoth" is a *very* unusual word! The only place I can ever remember seeing it is in the Bible. Along with "leviathan", it's just one of those words I don't have occasion to use very often.

- Vicki wave
Posted By: YellowDartVader Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 10:25 AM
I am not at all interested in becoming a professional fiction writer -- professional technical writer, sure, but not a professional fiction writer. In fact, I haven't taken an English class or read a non-children's book since high school. Thus, I am not well read and do not have a good vocabulary (my SAT scores reflected that, but somehow on the GRE, I got a lot of medical vocabulary words, so I did well). Honestly, having my head full of so many equations and medical terms, I don't exactly want to inncrease my other vocabulary. I often think that people that use big words in coversation are trying to show everyone else that they know big words. Some of the most intelligent people I know use small, common words in both conversation and professional presentation, but use them effectively -- I will admit that I have not perfected the craft of speaking and writing effectively yet.

Therefore, although I know the word behemeth, I would stop and question it as a word that isn't commonly used if I saw it in a story. I admit, that I have a college degree and think I know the mening of "terse", but I am not entirely sure. So I try to stick to small words when I write -- and speak. And, yes, I use a lot of adjectives.

Does that make me a bad writer? Probably. Do I care? Not at all. This is something I do for fun -- as a stress relief from my hectic RL. Therefore, I write stories I would like to read -- not caring at all about sentance structure or wordiness as I get my ideas down on paper.

Okay, I care a little that if someone points something out as being a really weird way to say something, I want that input, but I don't care enough to sit with a writing book and analyze each of my sentances. My dad almost has a PhD in English, so he has a ton of writing books sitting around the house somewhere, but I have never once looked at any of them. Well, because that would be boring. I have plenty of boring books of my own that I actually *have* to read wink . Hmm, "Textbook of Medical Physiology", "Ion Channels of Excitable Membranes", "Textbook of Biomedical Instrumentation", "From Neuron to Brain", and "Principles of Neural Science" are just the five books on my bed right now waiting for me to open them. Thus, I don't really have the time, energy, or passion to read anything about the craft of writing. If I were at my office and did a poll, I would bet 100% of the other students there would know the titles and authors of all of the books I mentioned . . . I'm sure the percentage of the people who would have ever heard of "Skunk and White" or the word "behemouth" would be under 50%.

I have to admit, my attention span for reading things I am not interested in is so short, I stopped reading the article here after a few sentances and just skipped to the responses.

I think the point I was trying to make here is that while some writers are using fanfic as a stepping stone to write professionally, for others, that is the last thing on our minds.

- Laura smile
Posted By: Nqoire Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 10:38 AM
I find this discussion rather funny, but that's just me and my strange little mind. However, for those complaining about using a dictionary to look up words, Merriam Webster came out with a toolbar, very similar to the Google Toolbar. Just type in your word and it either gives you a defintion or synonyms. Very helpful when writing on a computer. You can get at m-w.com
Posted By: LabRat Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 10:42 AM
That's interesting, Nqoire - thanks for the tip. Could be useful indeed!

LabRat smile
Posted By: gerry Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 11:12 AM
Interesting discussion so far.

Laura wrote:
Quote
Some of the most intelligent people I know use small, common words in both conversation and professional presentation, but use them effectively
And I agree with her to a certain extent. Yes, good writers use words that are common in daily speech, but they also choose the right words for their stories, words that are more descriptive and carry more meaning. When the story is written well, the line between the common words and the meatier words is seamless. (That's what makes it good writing as opposed to pretentious writing.) And so, Laura, these people use their words effectively. (Hemingway comes to mind.)

As fanfic writers, we still have an audience who, we hope, appreciate our writing, the way in which we tell (show wink )our story as well as what we tell. And even if writing is only a hobby, something that we do because it gives us pleasure, it can still be viewed as a craft.

I'd also like to thank Marilyn for sharing her interesting finds with us. They are truly food for thought. Yummy! laugh

gerry
Posted By: Schoolmarm Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 01:05 PM
Quote
Jose (who thinks that after the Spanish verbs, conjugate the English ones are easy
I heartily agree, Jose. No, I teach French. ( One semester of teaching English was a great plenty. smile ) And the only consolation that I can give my students is that at least there are fewer tenses in English. Conjugation forms, oth, abound in French, just as they do in Spanish.

For what it's worth, anyone who wants to increase their vocabulary, whether in their native language or in a second language should read, and then they should read some more. Even if you can't define a word, you will learn what it means from context and be able to use it in time.

As far as not caring to improve one's writing, since "it's only fanfic" -- all I can say is I agree with Gerry. It's still craft, and Erin K. certainly has proven that it can lead to bigger things. I certainly hope to improve my writing each time I begin a new story, if for no other reason than that I don't want to lose readers because of poorly written prose, no matter how intriguing my plot might be.


Schoolmarm
Posted By: ErinK Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/26/03 02:06 PM
Schoolmarm wrote:

Quote
As far as not caring to improve one's writing, since "it's only fanfic" -- all I can say is I agree with Gerry. It's still craft, and Erin K. certainly has proven that it can lead to bigger things.
Bigger, yes. But I'm not sure "better" (as the saying goes wink ) necessarily applies. I'm really learning a ton as my novel is going through the editing process right now (Labby, can I just say I love you as an EIC after starting this process? wink ), but I'll tell ya, LNC fanfiction will always be my first love. And I can't WAIT to return to it! grumble )

It was interesting and informative discussions like this one that started me on the path to honing my craft (so thanks for posting this, Marilyn! I enjoyed reading it!), but I certainly have a long way to go before I can consider my craft honed. dizzy To be honest, I still feel humbled (and often intimidated!) by all you talented writers around these parts. Sure, I may have gotten lucky enough to get a toe in the door, but you guys can still write rings around ME. :p

Back to lurking and reading and trying to learn as much as I can from you talented writers... smile
Posted By: Karen Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/27/03 04:28 AM
Wow, I'm surprised so many people think "behemoth" is a mostly unknown word. I know I've read it several times, and heard it plenty. However, for some odd reason, I always thought it was spelled "bohemoth", and had to run to dictionary.com to be sure!

I do have to agree with the article. Clear, concise sentences work better than long drawn out ones. They may be trying to draw the image, but sometimes the author draws a little too much.
Posted By: Supermom Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/29/03 11:15 AM
I was watching a documentary show on the PBS channel about the Medal of Honor Museum in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The host of the show was standing beside a tank and guess what word he used to describe it? Yep, that's right. Behemoth! I'm sure my husband thought I was nuts for laughing.
Posted By: Vicki Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 09/29/03 11:35 AM
rotflol rotflol rotflol

That's too funny, Marilyn. Why does it seem that whenever I learn a new word, all of the sudden I hear that word *everywhere*?!! (Well, in this case it's not "new", but certainly "rare" - for me, that is. Now I'm sure everywhere I go, I'll be hearing this word!)

- Vicki
Posted By: Schoolmarm Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 10/10/03 05:22 PM
I hope nobody minds if I revisit this thread. I just happened to be discussing some writing-related questions with a friend and colleague who has recently published her second novel, Ophelia's Revenge. Among other things, such as the use of ?! for punctuation, we discussed the use of adverbs of manner. And her comment was, "It's out of style now, has been since the thirties. If you tried to get something published with very many, you'd probably never even get an agent."

As for ?! (and I've used it many a time myself) a closer look in the grammar books reveals that the proper punctuation for an exclamatory question is the exclamation point, i.e. Clark gasped. "What!" The interrogative word shows that it's a question; the exclamation point shows the tone of voice and mood of the speaker.

Schoolmarm
Posted By: ChiefPam Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 10/11/03 07:26 PM
Thanks, Schoolmarm! Next time I send a manuscript to a publisher, I'll keep that in mind smile

PJ
Posted By: Rac Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 10/18/03 08:02 PM
This is a fascinating topic, indeed. I'm going to side with the notion that adverbs and adjectives are useful when you're a novice to a language because there is a limited number you need to know. Then you can modify all sorts of nouns and verbs. English is unique in that it absorbs words at a much faster rate than seemingly any other language, while rarely discarding any. The English language has 25,000 to 30,000 more words than either French or German. Why? English actually has more nuanced words that mean almost the same thing as another word but that have particularized usages. Let's pick a not so randomly chosen verb from this paragraph and analyze it. Consider if you will, all the different ways in English you can convey the concept of 'to discard:'

-expel
-exorcise
-give up
-get rid of
-chuck
-toss
-dispose of
-throw out
-trash
-extirpate
-expunge
-delete
-junk
-scrap
-throw away
-relinquish
-reject
-cast off
-cast aside
-cast away
-forsake
-desert
-part with
-do away with
-dispense with
-shed
-repudiate
-dispatch
-dispossess
-shake off
-free oneself of
-drop
-wash one's hands of
-abandon
-renounce
-and of course, defenstrate (but only if you discard it out a window).

Each of these words or phrasal verbs has a specific meaning and fits particular situations. You might use 'excise' if you want to say that something was removed in a precise and clinical manner. You might use 'extirpate' if the thing is ripped out in a visceral fashion. You might use 'expel' if you want to convey that the thing has been forced out, never to return again. And that's just using three of the regular verbs that all start with 'ex.' When you start using other parts of the alphabet and all of those phrasal verbs, man, that's a lot to keep straight when all you're trying to do is figure out how to describe the way Clark took out the trash in a language other than your native tongue wink .

Yes, using these fancy verbs makes descriptions come to life. That is the beauty of the English language. Few languages can compete with its complexity. One word can evoke a specific sentiment or situation. Complicated thoughts, impossible to express with sentences, are boiled down to one word, understood by all, although they are hard pressed to define it.

Indeed, the over-reliance upon adverbs and adjectives can bankrupt the language and dispossess it of its depth. Adverbs and adjectives can be crutches for weak vocabularies. Crutches, of course, must be abandoned. These parts of speech, however, are commonplace in spoken English and we shouldn't forget this and dispense with them. Not too many people use 'extirpate' in their daily conversations. Whether in anger or in boredom, we're more likely to threaten to toss one out on their rear or offer to take out the trash than we are to threaten defenstration or promise to dispatch the refuse. Dialogue is informal and we should cast off notions that suggest we 'dress it up' and make our characters sound more erudite (read: longwinded). So should we give up? Should we repudiate the entire project? I reject such notions. If you want to excise the adjectives and adverbs from your descriptions, fine, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and eliminate them outright. You'll run the risk of relinquishing an important tool as a writer and create stiff and formal dialogue that ought to be chucked.

Class dismissed wink

Rac
Posted By: Anna B. the Greek Re: Craft: Adverb and Adjectives - 10/19/03 04:32 PM
Quote
These parts of speech, however, are commonplace in spoken English and we shouldn't forget this and dispense with them.
That's what works for the Greek language too, Rac. Greek has two times as many words as English has, four if you count the different forms verbs, nouns, pronouns, adjectives and articles can take depending on gender, case, mood and so on. But in spoken language less than the half of all these words are in use. If someone heard two teens talk about an everyday topic, they'd think 'oh, what a poor vcabulary they have!'.

And, being the one that pointed out the problem the non-native speakers have, seeing a fic written with all sort of literature words you can find makes me have mixed feelings: admiration for the writer, jealousy because I could never write like this, and annoyance because I have to check the dictionary every once in a while. (Gladly, I never needed to stop reading a fic because the language was so difficult for me.)

AnnaBtG.
© Lois & Clark Fanfic Message Boards