Lois & Clark Wiki - Lois & Clark Fanfic Message Boards

After reading this post the other day, I had an idea: what we if were to build a Lois & Clark wiki? It would be similar to Wikipedia, but devoted just to L&C:TNAOS and Folcdom. Let me know what you think. Answers to the poll and comments are appreciated!

I think it would be interesting. I've looked at some of the resources other fandoms have (pages with full character bios and stats, and stuff like that), and we're slightly lacking.

I don't see why not. Who better to fill in the blanks than FoLCs?

I'm puzzled by the fundraising campaign question though. Granted, what I know about Wiki you could put on a postage stamp, but I'd always assumed you just made an entry if you had something to say. Am I to take it from this that you actually have to pay to make an entry?

ETA: Oh, hang on, I see. I got confused through the simple process of not reading the initial post correctly.

Hmmmmmm. Okay, now I'm not so sure why you'd need to build a whole new system similar to Wiki when you have Wiki. Why not just fill in an entry in Wiki and save yourself a lot of time and cash? (Again the answer to this question is probably obvious to anyone who knows squat more than I do about Wiki.

)

LabRat

We could use the real Wikipedia, but then we would have to wade through all sorts of non-L&C stuff, especially in the articles about the major characters. And, I don't know, I just would feel funny submitting an article to Wikipedia for something like Jimmy Interruptus!

The fundraising would just be for website maintenance, if needed. Paying for hosting, etc.

For my part, as someone who writes a lot of crossovers, a wiki devoted only to L&C wouldn't be useful - I quite often want to check out the career of the actors, how the character appears in the other DC universe stories, and so forth. I think it would only get a tiny readership compared to the main Wikipedia articles on Lois & Clark, and that the effort would be better used there, improving their accuracy and scope, adding more episode descriptions, and so forth.

I don't really know. It seems like everybody here knows what there is to know. And what we don't knwo, we can always ask. There are always helpful FoLCs around to answer every single question.

I think it would be great fun! I'd just have to wait until after moving day to get started on any of it.

Cool idea! There's already a wealth of information on Zoomway's sites....

* Lois & Clark
* Episode Guides
* FAQ
(plus I have a vague recollection of a concordance but can't find it)

... but having it in Wiki form would be good too. Maybe Zoomway would be willing to contribute some content. A Wiki would be a great resource for fanfic writers and could certainly answer those "How do you spell Hobs/Hobbs/Hobb's Bay-type questions."

-- Lauren

I like this idea!

I'd be willing to store at least some of the files on my personal website (which is pretty empty at the moment), I still need a purpose for it anyway

Yarrrr great idea

*hyper hyper Lol*

I agree with Marcus, I personally think that fleshing out the existing Wiki would be perfectly fine.

Then we could get a lot more exposure to the general Wiki crowd. I've already submitted a few things on the main site and haven't had any problems.

James

Be careful and make sure that you have read any rules, recommendations and notes attached to those things. Wikipedia can be quite stingy on what information they accept, you might find your articles deleted faster than you can write them and garner some rude comments while they are at it.

It can be a shark pool, better contact the TV series project and the Superman project first, they can help you on which kind of information they need and how that information should be presented

I think that in general the approach that the main wikipedia site takes is a good one - I've been called on several changes I made where it turned out I couldn't verify the facts, and one where I was plain wrong. I've never had a legitimate entry or change reversed, with the exception of one site link (to the only on-line edition of a long out of print book) which turned out to be selectively quoting from it to make a political point - I'd put in the reference without realising that large and important parts had been cut.

Hmm, interesting idea.. if you guys are still interested and if posting on the main wiki creates problems, here's an interesting development platform (based on the wiki).. Twiki

(It is a structured Wiki, and from what I could gather, the software is free so we'd just need a web space and host... I think

)

Just a thought..

I think it is a nice idea. A lot of sites have wiki's that are soley dedicated to the series. They have much more information on them than normal wikipedia sites. Some examples:

Battlestar Galactica
Firefly Wiki

Many many shows have them. I can't see anything but good coming from a fan compiled one and the wiki software is opensource and free.

It seems to me that there is enough interest to actually do this. So, yea! I am excited.

Six people besides myself responded that they would be interested in being on the setup committee. I think I know who some of you are based on your replies, but I am not completely sure. Please email me if you're interested, and sometime next week we can start talking about how we actually do this.

Thanks to everyone who replied to the poll!

Quote

A lot of sites have wiki's that are soley dedicated to the series. They have much more information on them than normal wikipedia sites.

There's also 1 or 2 sites dedicated completely to Harry Potter knowledge.

And Lisa, I'm totally in on the setup idea--but I have to move and get settled in the new place first, so I won't be e-mailing you for another week or two, at least.

Quote

And Lisa, I'm totally in on the setup idea--but I have to move and get settled in the new place first, so I won't be e-mailing you for another week or two, at least.

No problem, Darcy. I figured even before I put up the poll that you'd want in, so we can wait!

I'm definitely interested in a Lois & Clark Wiki

But I think it would be better to make a whole new wiki instead of just filling in Wikipedia. On a new wiki, we can have our own rules, and can monitor who has rights to edit pages. That way, we can make sure it's only fans who are making changes.

I have already set up two wikis in the past, but that was with the Wikka Wikki system . The other systems mentioned above seem to be better and more advanced. Also, a class mate of mine isn't that found of Wikka Wikki anymore, he says the security isn't optimal. So I don't think we should use that

I would be willing to contribute to the system by helping to set it up and adding content, but I'm very busy with schoolwork until mid February. After that, you can count me in

Also, before someone builds it, maybe we should brainstorm about what we're gonna put on it, so we can define a good structure. It's better to have a large flexible structure beforehand, instead of just building extra things and making a maze out of it

There is the obvious content like information about the show, episode descriptions, cast information, featured songs,... But also information about the fans, fanfic, music videos, folcfests,...

On most wikis (as far as I know), users can also make their own profile page. So everyone can use that to showcase some of their fanfics, vids, arts,...

So, what else can we put on it?

EDIT: I was thinking about what Marcus posted. If we have the info on our own wiki, a few people could just transfer some of the more general info to the existing wikipedia. And we could link from our wiki to wikipedia (for the non-L&C info) and from wikipedia to our wiki if someone on wikipedia wants more information.

An, you're officially on the setup team.

You've made some great suggestions, thank you!

It's no problem to wait a few weeks, Darcy is busy for a while too.

A structure is a good thing. The question is what it is supposed to contain.
Do you want to have a part about "Superman in other media" - this could focus on the differences between LnC and the other media (comic books, Smallville, Superman movies, etc); Fan pages for Dean and Teri (and others), including their other projects; something like "famous mistakes" like Lois' apartment changing location and so forth.

Quote

Fan pages for Dean and Teri (and others), including their other projects;...

Great idea! A fine movie like Boa (New Alcatraz) deserves its own page on the wiki!

Quote

Great idea! A fine movie like Boa (New Alcatraz) deserves its own page on the wiki!

<snort>

I had thought that the wiki wouldn't focus too much on the actors because its really more about the show and the fandom, not to mention that there are plenty of sites already on the net dedicated to Teri and Dean, etc. To begin we probably would just have short bios for them and a link to other fansites.

Those other ideas are great, Mellie, stuff I hadn't even thought of. That's why I am so excited about this project - we can all be total fan geeks and pull out all the crazy facts we have stored in the back of our brains!

Quote

There is the obvious content like information about the show, episode descriptions, cast information, featured songs,... But also information about the fans, fanfic, music videos, folcfests,...

(snip)

So, what else can we put on it?

Character bios, timelines, a lexicon (where we can define things like Jimmy Interruptus, ORK, the ARGH), history of the fandom.

If we get really ambitious we could include a guide for vid makers listing eps where you can find clips of certain things - Clark winking, Lois singing, stuff like that. Finding all the clips I want is my main vid making hang up.

Keep the ideas coming!

I'm not really a music video maker myself (I have one unfinished video lol), but I think that could be very useful. And not just for videos, also for screencaps/icons/motivational posters.

Oh, and maybe not just a list of songs featured on Lois & Clark, but also other Superman related songs.

And maybe a few tutorials on how to make music videos, icons, wallpapers, write fanfic,... it doesn't have to be very detailed, maybe just basic. It could be a help to fans who haven't made anything yet, but want to give it a try.

Just had another inspiration. What about a finished guide to CK's ties? Like The Ultimate, Definitive, Guide to Clark Kent\'s Ties , but then for the entire show. Although that does seem like a lot of work. But the whole point of a wiki is to share the work. Not something I see myself doing though

Oh, and a guide to Lois & Clark kisses, and hugs, etc...

And we can't forget... a guide to shirtless Clark moments

Count me in. I'll be available most of February.

A lot of the information and tid-bits (like Lois Clark kisses hugs, how many spectacles for CK, how many characters knew CK=Superman) etc can be found in the on-and-off quizzes featured on this board and Zoomway's boards. (I remeber from 2004 when I used to participate.. I have no idea if they're still on or no)

Just an idea and umm I can help compile...,

I guess I'm in, although I voted otherwise. Sounds like fun. But don't expect too much from me. I've still got two WIPs and other stuff I want to write. Like for my courses...

Quote

Great idea! A fine movie like Boa (New Alcatraz) deserves its own page on the wiki!

Dead and Deader is also a very good choice!

I also think there are plenty of sites dedicated to Teri and Dean.

Well, I know nothing about setting up websites, so I'd be useless on the committee (and I've got too many betas and too many WIPs to really do that), but maybe I could help with a short article or two... or three...

Oops, that with the articles is what I meant, too. I don't know anything about that computer stuff, either.

Sorry if I was giving the wrong impression.

If you do this, it'd be nice to have a timeline of events, especially ones that happen before the series start. Things like Lois going to Ireland at the age of 17 and leaving her father. Might be useful for the writers, right?

I'd love an LnC Wiki. I've been poking around a fic idea and I'd love a central place to go to look up all the things I can't remember if they're canon or fanon.

I use the Smallville Wiki (http://smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) constantly.

~M

That would be really great!

Sounds like fun! I wouldn't mind helping out where I could. Bwahaha! Not sure if I'd be able to financially, though. Kinda lotsly brokt.

I was looking at this thread:

http://www.lcficmbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001933

And realized that would have been a perfect use of a wiki board.

Did anything ever come of this project?

Quote

Did anything ever come of this project?

A few of us were talking about it via email for a while - different programs, web services, etc - but real life intervened before we got it done. I still think it's a really great idea but I've realized that I unfortunately don't have the time to head it up myself.

After seeing this wiki entry for the episode in ST:TNG Timescape I really think it would be great if we could do something similar for LNC.

I'd be happy to give some articles a go.

James

I was wondering about this a few days ago. I'd like to continue what we've started!

Anyone who wants to help, please do! We could finish the Complete, Ultimate Guide to Clark Kent's Ties!

For anyone interested, I'll go ahead and post the "categories" we came up with, so you kind of have an idea of how things will look (IF we ever finish this):

- Timeline: episodes, stuff that happens before/after the series (like Lois going to Ireland), etc.
- Characters: from superman to villains, from starring roles to teeny weeny guest roles, bios, and so on
- The show itself: like the making of, premieres, cast info, featured songs, bloopers, "famous mistakes"
- FoLCdom: fans, fanfic, MVs, folcfests, history of the fandom, tutorials on how to make/upload vids/fanfic, ...
- Superman in other media: the comics, the movies, the series, differences between them, you name it

- Miscellaneous/Details: lexicons; every "eensy weensy, microcosmic" detail like clark's ties, lois's outfits, superman related songs, all the places in and around metropolis, list of superman rescues, and, of course, shirtless clarks! :p

I'm still interested

The last months, I have been very busy with school work but today was my last day of doing school work EVER. I had to present my end project and everything went fine so I can finally graduate and have more free time

I'll look into it this week. At the moment I am way too tired because I got only like 2,5 hours of sleep last night.

Well The World of Lois & Clark is open for additional suggestions.

AFAIK, many wikkis use Wikia , and the homepage says it's free. Shall we? I'll contribute as much as I can.

Hm, it would be an option, but I think it's better to set up an entire new wiki. That way we have more control over everything.

I've been looking into several wiki engines and have found a few interesing ones that would fit the general needs. I'm also looking for free web spaces with the required options like PHP and MySQL and so on. I'll try to make a compilation of all the information I've gathered and e-mail it this week to those who are interested.

I was on the list already back in what was it? February? Anyway, I'm still interested

Contact me privately on the hosting - I can add a wiki to the World of Lois & Clark site.

I just sent out a mail with more information about the current wiki status. If there is anyone else who wants to be included, just let me know!

Waiting for email?

Dandello, I sent you an e-mail as well, but this is what I got:

Quote

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

momkat@dandello.net

Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 16): 552 5.2.0 209.85.198.187 URL in message blacklisted. See http://www.surbl.org

I'll try sending it again.

If you guys need space I can give that and set up the initial Wiki and leave you guys to fleshing it out. Just let me know.

we can even go for an url: lncwiki.com, which is available.

Let me know and I can get the ball rolling.

I also have room and access to a cgi-bin, PHP and MySQL. But my mail doesn't seem to be coming through from AnHauquier. I can be contacted off-line though.

I'm also a professional web programmer (Yeah, I get paid.)

I hope my e-mail finally got through!

As I said in my e-mail, a little more than a week ago, I set up a free hosting space and put a wiki based on the PmWiki engine on it to test it.

I then choose a bare but very flexible layout template, which still needs to be adjusted. This can be done with CSS. I started a first design, but didn't get very far because I was busy with starting my first real job (as a webdesigner, so now I can get paid as well

).

The temporary version of the wiki can be seen at http://folcwiki.isgreat.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php The structure is still temporary, because it still needs a bit of work. Changing this in the wiki is easy, but we first need to think about where to put which pages (and which pages still need to be added).

Don't judge by the layout, because as you can see: it's still non-existent. Maybe I can come up a first design later this week or during the weekend. If someone else wants to design something, that's okay. If you don't know CSS, I can implement the design into CSS for the wiki. If several people want to have a go at it, we can vote for the designs here on the boards.

Oh, and the free hosting is at Byethost, which has 250MB of space (should be more than enough), PHP, MySQL,... Transfering to a paid (and possible better) host would be great, this was just for testing out. Up until now, the only problem I've found with the current hosting is that when you give in a wrong url, it goes to a whole other website, instead to an error page. Which is kind of annoying and not looking very professional!

PS: I don't know if my e-mail arrived at the other e-mail addresses. I didn't get an error, but haven't received any replies either. Maybe every one is just busy, which I totally understand since it took me that long to send it out in the first place

Has anything been done with this project lately? I checked out the link An posted, but it still seems to be pretty blank. I've been reading through the Buffy wiki over the past few days and I started thinking how useful that would be for LnC. Anybody interested in resurrecting this project?

~Anna

Has anyone run into this: Lois and Clark - Fan History Wiki before? Someone who's kept up with the details of our fandom might want to update it to include us.

Tara

Well, there was a discussion about one of these once before. link
But since the one you give lists George and Lynn Fic as prominent, I'm not sure it's the one we talked about doing here on this board because I don't think 'George and Lynn Fic' is all that popular here.

A few months ago, I did get an email asking me to participate in a fan wiki, but it wanted to include things about 'fandom fighting' so I chose not to participate.

But here is the email in its entirety. I'll leave the sender out. I also left the links out.

Quote

Hello, I run Fan History, a fandom wiki xxxxx dedicated to writing and preserving the history of fandom. There is an article about the Lois_and_Clark fandom xxxxx that could use
some help from people inside the fandom.

While it is easy to get things like when communities were started and when canon was released, it is much harder to put that information into context, find out about fandom fighting, who the big name fans are and what people are doing at conventions and on the more remote parts of the Internet. Any help in editing the article would be much appreciated.

If you don't feel comfortable editing the Lois_and_Clark article xxxxxx, please pass the link along to anyone you think might be able to.

The more people who contribute to the article, the more accurate and useful it will be.

Sincerely,
ME

Smileys left as they were in the email...

Just as a heads up.

There has been a massive outcry about Fan History in the larger fandom (as linked through Metafandom, among other places).

One of the leaders of the project recently "outed" a fan by making an entry linking her fandom pseud with her real name and posting it in a popular community numerous times without said fan's permission (as well as refusing to remove the name from the wiki). This is pretty serious.

A more minor fact that has been brought to light is that perhaps the cause for all this hoopla is that the leaders of FH reportedly want to make the site something like FanLib, which profits from the fanworks posted on it. So this type of outcry generates page hits so it's part of the "any publicity is good publicity" credo.

I think it was a good choice not to participate.

alcyone

Fanlib has just folded. Someone made a mistake and put their business plan on line , which revealed that they were selling it to the media industry as a viral marketing / captive audience for advertising site, with the moderators controlling things to maximize revenue for the advertisers. Except that it looks like they didn't succeed in doing so, and have run out of money or something...

Ack! Holy crap, and I remembered reading a while back that it was doing so well despite people grumbling...I wish I could read their letter, but it's drowned out by a freakin' ad.

Figures.

alcyone

Re. Alcyone's post, I was just coming here to make exactly the same point, having found a link to that whole business on my LiveJournal friends list. If anyone wants to know more, you'll see more than you could ever care to know about here . Seems the creator of this FanHistory wiki believes that it's perfectly okay to reveal online fans' RL identities without asking permission. If your RL identity is revealed, you actually have to ask her to take it down - and, since she believes that this kind of private information should be in the public domain, she may not even agree to it - and she's disabled the edit function on her wiki.

Stay well away.

Wendy

The comment from 'debchan' on that link from Wendy says it all, I think.

Someone should send her this:

Quote

Payout for false Facebook profile

A businessman whose personal details were "laid bare" in fake entries on the Facebook social networking website has won a libel case at the High Court.

Mathew Firsht was awarded £22,000 in damages against an old school friend, Grant Raphael, who created the profile.

The judge ruled that Mr Raphael's defence - that the entry was created by mischievous party gate-crashers at his flat - was "built on lies".

The profiles were on Facebook for 16 days until they were taken down.

The court heard that Mr Raphael created a false personal profile for Mr Firsht, and a company profile called "Has Mathew Firsht lied to you?".

The judge heard that the private information concerned Mr Firsht's whereabouts, activities, birthday and relationship status. It falsely indicated his sexual orientation and political views.

Mr Firsht said it included allegations that he owed substantial sums of money which he had repeatedly avoided paying by lying, and that he and his company were not to be trusted.

He was awarded £15,000 for libel and £2,000 for breach of privacy. His company was awarded £5,000.

Speaking to the BBC after the case, Mr Firsht said the false profile had made him "extremely angry".

It had taken a "lot of energy, a lot of effort and a lot of time, and a lot of expense" to trace who was behind it, he said - and to win the case was "amazing".

"It's important that if anybody does have information which is written about them which is totally untrue... that people realise there is now a chance of finding out who those people are."

The two former friends went to school together in Brighton but fell out about six years ago over a business dispute.

Deputy Judge Richard Parkes QC said that by the time the dispute arose, Mr Firsht was highly successful, but Mr Raphael - whose company had gone into voluntary liquidation - "was not".

The judge said Mr Firsht would have accepted an apology if Mr Raphael had offered one at an early stage, thus avoiding the distress and expense of litigation.

Mr Raphael said that "strangers" who attended an impromptu party at his house in Hampstead in north London sneaked off to a spare bedroom and created the profiles on his PC.

But the judge described his claim as "utterly far-fetched".

Facebook said in a statement: "Facebook does not permit fake profiles on its site. Fake profiles are an abuse of our terms of use and they will be removed.

"When fake profiles are reported we thoroughly investigate and remove profiles found to be in violations of our terms of use - just as we did in the case of Mathew Firscht."

Media lawyer Jo Sanders, of Harbottle & Lewis, said the ruling showed that what people posted online "has consequences".

"The golden rule should be to only put up information or images you are happy for everyone to see and are happy to put your name to."

But computer security consultant and former hacker Robert Schifreen said it was "very easy" to set up false pages about people on such networking sites - and it could be difficult to trace who was responsible.

"The problem with these free websites that don't require payment means there's no easy way of verifying someone's identity... You haven't got their address, you haven't got their credit card details, so anybody can set something up."

It was also easy to say what you write online from places such as internet cafes or restaurants offering free wifi access, which are "relatively untraceable", he said.

Nor is it easy to bring libel actions, he said - and this is a "very rare case".

"It's not easy to get legal aid for libel cases, it's not easy to do it especially when the website is based in a different country to where you're suing somebody, and you really do have to persevere... but it can be done."

He added: "it's very easy to be somebody else on a website if you want to be. The internet does make it easy. But you do need to be aware that if you start libelling somebody - rather than just having a bit of fun - then it can be a major legal problem."

LabRat

Quote

I think it was a good choice not to participate.

Yep, me, too. I wonder how many other people got this email? And how the heck did they know to contact me? Did they go through every person on the boards, I wonder, and get their email addresses?

Quote

I remembered reading a while back that it was doing so well despite people grumbling..

Really? I looked at the site and seemed to be hopelessly floundering.... But I didn't look at it until StarKat's post.