A stray comment on Rat's latest story prompted me to think of the various cameos we've had in stories. The following is a list of some of the cameos we've had over the years:

Tara, of course, made Tank the bad guy of sorts in a fic, and Tank retaliated by putting Tara and Cindy Haste in a fic and making them shave their heads. Nan was in that one too, but she was a doctor at STAR Labs and retained her dignity. Elisabeth gave a cameo to nearly every mb regular in her "Story of a Lifetime" (why isn't that on the archive, Elisabeth?), while Debby Stark disguised various FoLCs very loosely and featured them in different bits of Dawning.

There are more subtle cameos as well. Someone had Lois and Clark mention "Jernigan's Pub" during an investigation (sorry, I don't remember who or what fic that was!), but it wasn't the main part of the story. I'm guilty of this kind of cameo, too; in "A Certain Point of View," Lana tells her parents not to hire the Wilson band, because they have a lousy bass player. :p I'm sure there are other examples out there as well.

So, to get to the point: How do you feel about cameos? Do they amuse you? Annoy you? Can you skim over it and just keep reading, or does it distract you and pull you of the story? Would it matter if the cameo was a minor, subtle one, rather than something obvious? Do you think that cameos suggest a clique of sorts to the reader that recognizes the various names?

I look forward to seeing the results of this, and any discussion below. And if I've missed any cameos in fics, please share them!

Hazel

Interesting poll, Hazel! A while back, I would have said that I hated all cameos and that they jerk me right out of the story. Now, I find that I quite enjoy the very subtle cameos, such as Kathy putting two FoLC friends of hers into When Friends Become Lovers (very subtle; just the first names used). I put someone into Carbon Copy; Nurse Luddy nurse was named after a certain FoLC who'd expressed a desire to nurse CK back to health.

well, i, for one, find them amusing. as long as they're good cameos. that is, if they're not too obvious and if i agree with the character assessment. i guess it's a matter of taste. usually, they're in silly stories anyway, which means it shouldn't be a problem. sometimes, though, they're in more serious stories, and then they often add a nice little touch of humor.

so, basically, i like most cameos. i guess that's not surprising, since i've written a couple myself.

i'm curious as to why you decided to start this one, hazel, and to see what others think.

Paul

Okay, I started off on this one not being able to vote, because I've always been really schizoid when it comes to cameos. Some I love, some make me laugh and some jerk me out of the story and I hate them.

And I've never been able to figure out why I have this varying response...

....until I read Wendy's post above. And that's it! Exactly! My opinion on cameos? Go read what Wendy said.

Thanks for solving the long-held puzzlement, Wendy. <G>

LabRat (who has the odd exception even so. I did kind of enjoy a story I read years ago where Lois and Clark walked past a TV store and Lois thought to herself how much Clark looked like the actor on screen...)

I have to confess that I don't like cameos (unless I'm so oblivious, and I miss them, in which case they obviously don't bother me! )

For me, this isn't just a problem with LnC fic. It's a more general problem. For example, I went to see the Daredevil movie a few months ago, and there are lots of references to people who just happen to share names with comic writers and artists. Obviously, anyone who doesn't read the comic would completely miss them. Unfortunately I do read the comic -- and I can't believe that I've just confessed to that! -- and I found the references really distracting. I'm sure that they were supposed to be cute in-jokes for the fans, but they just didn't work for me. Humour really didn't fit with the storyline (such as it was).

Actually, going back to the original question... If the story is supposed to be humourous / tongue in cheek, I probably can live with the odd cameo. If it is a serious story, then I have a real problem with them.

Chris

I was guilty of using cameos frequently in the early days of my writing because I thought it would help me become more a 'part of the group', but now I'd only use them in a minor way, and in a story that isn't too serious in nature.

They work best in stories with touches of humor already, or in stories 'pointed' at certain individuals.

I don't think a cameo (or supporting role) would work in a larger context anymore because they do have a tendency to pull you out of the flow of the story.

Like everything else, cameos are best if taken in small bites.

Tank (who cops to Jernigan's Pub also, but thinks it was in the same fic as Nan, Tara, and Cindy)

Just coming back in to add that I agree with Chris and Tank - in a serious story they do tend to grate for me more than in a story that's got a strong comedy content. There have been stories I've found them irritating in and mostly there were serious themed, now that I think about it.

LabRat

I've always loved seeing them Brings a big smile to my lips.

-Breanna

I think comment of Tank's sums up my opinion, as well. When stories are meant to be funny, unexpected things like this only add to the good natured fun. But in a serious story, if L&C were to watch a program with some gorgeous actor named Dean Cain or if Jimmy were to mention he chats online with someone named Tank and they'd become best friends , I'd likely be pulled out of the story and wonder why the author chose to add it at that moment.

But if one is running out of character names and decides to use another FoLC as a basis for a new one (as I did in WFBL, as Wendy mentioned), then I certainly have no problem with that. Generally speaking, until something like that was pointed out to people, no one except the person would even realize it. (And as it happens, I had to tell at least one of the people in question after the fact that I had based the character's name on theirs. They had read the story and hadn't even caught the similarity to their own name. )

Kathy

Unless it's humor or something's pointed at a specific person, I either don't notice them all-together or if it's brief, I'll just grin and keep on reading. I'm usually so wrapped up in the Lois & Clark part of it, though, that I'm not even paying attention to names and such. But the briefer, the better. I don't think it's clique-ish or anything like that, but if Wendy and Tank suddenly became Jimmy's best friends...I don't know, it would just be...weird.

Good poll.
Jen

True, the ones in humorous stories do work well; how can I forget Lois going undercover as 'Wendy' with a tonsure, and getting to know a simple young girl called 'Kay'?

I prefer the kind of cameo that can bring a smile to someone in the know, but not distract from the story if the reader doesn't know about it. Kathy's example of using a friend's first name is perfect. The friend appreciates it, but it doesn't bother the flow of the story at all.

I do agree that obvious cameos, deliberately planted for the humor of the story, are fine. But count me in among those who would rather not lose the flow of a serious story by an overly obvious cameo.

BTW, Paul, you asked what made me start this poll. You can read the comments on Lab's Epiphany to see what struck me as a cameo. Mary Suedom self-insertion? My goodness!

Hazel, who doesn't mean that seriously

LOL! And actually the irony is that it wasn't even intended as a cameo at all. <g> It was just what popped into my head and went down on the screen when I needed an example for Lois. It was a bit of a surprise for me the first time it was mentioned - by one of my betas I think.

LabRat (who only thinks of herself as a rat some of the time... )

Jose, it's in Tank\'s Haircut Challenge story.

Thanks LabRat, I had noticed that when I read the story I didn't remember when I have read the story. Of course it was a recent story, otherwise I doubt I would remember that. :p (That says a lot of my memory )

Jose

I'm one of the ones that like cameos in their own rights. If it's a serious fic, it may not fit properly. Of course, if I do happen to see a cameo, I either giggle or roll my eyes, depending on the context.. usually giggle. I have to admit, tho, I did not get the Wendy & Kae reference *bops self*.

And with that, I just can't resist to add my chicken scratch...

o< o= o< o= o< o=

Um, yeah, what they said. I've used inspiration from my real life before, usually as names for minor characters. The doctor in Second Chances just *happens* to share a name with my doctor That kind of thing. Not sure that qualifies, tho.

Oh, and I put myself into Second Chances, but I doubt anyone would ever find it if I didn't point it out.

PJ
who was also a villain in Dawning part 8...

Initially, i wasn't going to vote as I didn't really mind them one way or the other. However after thinking about some recent stories I've read and seeing what everyone else has posted I voted for the "Cameos do distract me a little, but if it's something subtle and minor, I don't mind. It's the obvious cameos that bother me."

I quite like seeing cameos - its fun, but when I thought about it, I realised that, despite being great fun they did pull me out of the story and back into RL. In a fun story I don't mind, as I said its part of the fun (the cameos in Tank's and other's haircut challenges have been great! ) In a long story, or even short waffy ones, they do take something away from the story, IMO. Tho, like Wendy, if they are subtle/unnoticable, I don't mind them, might even go so far as to say I like those ones, no matter the story.

Loriel (hoping we don't see an end to all the cameos)

Hey, Wendy, you forgot the copyright sign after "Phil the Mad Professor" -- does that mean you're surrendering ownership of the term?

And my "revenge" is still coming, one of these years...

I haven't put many cameos in my fics. I doubt that anyone (except the cameo-ee -- there's gotta be a better word than that ) noticed the one that got into the S6 finale, and, although tempted, I refrained from putting the rest of the S6 crew in at one point because I though it would break the reader's concentration at what was supposed to be a tense moment.

Which, I guess, more or less agrees with what other people have said: a cameo can be a fun thing to do provided it doesn't detract from the story -- which means that the story has to be one the light side so that any "crossover" with RL is just one more piece of fun.

Phil (the Mad Professor )

Pam said:
And didn't you also put yourself into Tryst? And the President Kent series, from what I remember.

I guess I never paid any attention to the mood of the stories that had cameos in them.

In 7 Days of Superman, a VERY serious story, I cameoed/created characters based loosely on some Folcs.

Knat Wilson, the reporter. A minor role.
Nan Smith, a Secret Service agent. She was really a major player in the story.
Dr. Phil Atkliph, Dr. Klein's assistant. Another major player.

I only asked permission from Nan because her name was unchanged. Since neither Tank nor Phil complained, I took it as tacit approval.

True, I killed both Nan and Phil, but since this was a time traveling/dimension hopping story, they didn't stay that way.

And yes, I made Knat responcible for the world wide knocking out of some 3 billion people. It seemed fitting for the character.

I also stuck several components from other fanfics, with the permission of the original authors.

Mickey, the Pomeranian, from A Time to Adjust By Lara Blasingame

President Kent and Keith Jackson, from the President Kent series by Pam Jernigan

Pagimon by Tara Smith

I did the cameos for two reasons, I thought it would be neat and I thought it would 'help me become more a 'part of the group', as Tank had mentioned earlier. I also included story ideas from those stories that I really liked. I wanted to pay homage to them.

(Elisabeth also reminded me that because of the intensity of the story, I had included various cameos to help lighten the story.)

No one said at the time that these elements were distracting.

James

Wendy, in Second Chances I put my real self in <g> Not an "inspired-by-real-life" character, which they all are, anyway. But like I said, you'd have to search *and* know about me before you'd find it. As I recall, it's just a few words

And I've remembered -- I did a story years ago featuring me, Chris Mulder, and Tara Weaver as future physicists who accidentally pull L&C forward in time -- with their memories swiss-cheesed.

I had fun with it, but it was definitely *not* a serious story <g> In fact, I never sent it to the archive; just kept it on my own site. If you're curious, it's here: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/timeflies.html

PJ

Hazel mentioned the type of cameo that only the cameoee (there's that word again) or those close to them would recognise.

While it's true that those don't affect the story because the character is 'just' a character, but it does bring a smile to the face of the one placed there.

Specific case in point is the few cameos I've enjoyed in actual published comic books. (It plays to know artists). I appeared as a bartender in Power of Shazam number 10, and had a brief appearance in one of the X-file comics. I was also in a crowd scene on the cover of one of the Star Trek: The Next Generation comics. Those were all great fun for me, but to the world at large, it was just a guy with a beard.

Tank (who admits that he did autograph a few copies of the Power of Shazam book for some of his friends, but doesn't think they were being serious )

Yup, what Chris, Tank and Kathy said. Although I would add that I don't even like single name cameos in serious fic - if I'm the cameo! I think it's only happened once, and it was done as a thank you for a bit of help I gave the writer - but I've found that whenever I read the story, I cringe when I see my own surname. Just want to run and hide under the nearest blanket in embarrassment.

I should add that I certainly *did* appreciate the honour of being written into the fic - don't want to appear ungrateful!

Yvonne

PS - I couldn't vote in the poll, 'cos none of the options fit.

Okay, Pam. Where are you in Second Chances? I just reread that story and the only person I can think of is the secretary who hums an obscure singer's songs.

Irene
scratching her head....

Okay, maybe it wasn't that hard to find Yeah, that's me. At the time, I was a secretary, who often worked late (or sometimes just *stayed* late in order to write fanfic <g> ), and, well, hummed But I'm not sure that qualifies as a cameo...

PJ

I don't think of it as cameo *per se*, but, well, I certainly nipped certain elements of FoLCdom at the time, when I wrote What REALLY Happened?, which is in the TOCs for this board. It was a parable, you see, of what I saw happening during one of the many fights it seemed like FoLCdom was getting into at the time (and since) - I'll not go into that here, because what's done is done. But anyway, that inspired me to draw some parallels with something that Perry mentioned in the show, and tell the story more in detail.

Um, so would you call that a cameo or not?

Melisma (ducking shyly back under her Rock)

Well, I didn't vote because I'm torn. I think I'm going to echo what a lot of people have already said, but here goes.

I adore cameos when the fic is a short, funny story, not meant to be taken seriously. I love spoofs and such. However, when I see a cameo (be it a folc, or an allusion to the show or the actors) in a serious fic, it jerks me right out of the story. For me, it all depends on the mood of the story.

Annie

Hm... the cameo challenge is, erm, challenging my opinion about cameos I think I voted in the cautious-about-cameos range (can't remember which one now), but after reading some of the hilarious stories the challenge has produced, I think I really like them now - provided they are in light-hearted stories. I should think that in a long, seriously A- and/or B-plotted story, that is not intended to be a comedy, a very obvious cameo would be distracting. Minor mention (ie, not by name, and prolly in passing) of a FoLC might work in those, if done very carefully...

Melisma (scratching her head here under her Rock)

One thing to think about when deciding whether to do a cameo or not... will the story still make sense to people who don't know the people who are cameo'd?

There are a few stories from very early in FOLCdom that were heavy in cameos of people I'd never met or even heard of, so the jokes went right past me, and the story wasn't very fun or interesting to read. The cameo-challenge fics being written in the fic challenge section are hilarious, but only if you have some idea who these people are. So they do have a limited audience.

PJ