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#273259 - 01/09/17 07:40 AM Comments
Morgana Offline
Kerth

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 2471
Loc: Somewhere on the East Coast
Hello FoLC's! hyper

I have noticed that there has been a complete 'silence' on the boards of late. Is everyone simply recovering from the holiday season and the demands of RL? In any case there are a few stories that no one has said anything about, such as NostalgiaKick's succinct Unmasked.

We need to support our writers so they can continue to provide the quality stories we have grown accustomed to.

That applies to me as a commenter as well. Been failing in that corridor!

As Deadly Chakram would say: Battle On!


Edited by Morgana (01/31/17 08:17 PM)
_________________________
Morgana

A writer's job is to think of new plots and create characters who stay with you long after the final page has been read. If that mission is accomplished than we have done what we set out to do, which is to entertain and hopefully educate.

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#273261 - 01/09/17 08:10 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Christina Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 1299
Loc: Cape Girardeau
I've been pretty Lurky of late as well, too focused on re-reading things on the fanfic archive (currently trying to tear through the hard to read but reallly enthralling epic "On the Other Hand" by CarolM). I do still check this forum every day or every couple times a day. but it's more of a scan. I'll have to go back and do some real responding. Oh Brother... is still really neat and While "Strangers" by L is interesting (I was so curious about the Alt-Lois's background in the "Evil" world that I was trying-and failing- to plot out a good Crisis-level crossover between the three known Earths) I just never responded in part because I didn't want to taint it (I considered the original story a good stand-alone).
_________________________
CLARK: No. I'm just worried I'm a jinx.
JONATHAN: A jinx?
CLARK: Yeah. Let's face it, ever since she's known me, Lois's been kidnapped, frozen, pushed off buildings, almost stabbed, poisoned, buried alive and who knows what else, and it's all because of me.
-"Contact" (You're not her jinx, you're her blessing.)

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#273262 - 01/09/17 10:33 AM Re: Comments aka Where Have All the Folcs Gone? [Re: Morgana]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: Morgana
Hello FoLC's! hyper

I have noticed that there has be a complete 'silence' on the boards of late. Is everyone simply recovering from the holiday season and the demands of RL? In any case there are a few stories that no one has said anything about, such as NostalgiaKick's succinct Unmasked.

We need to support our writers so they can continue to provide the quality stories we have grown accustomed to.

That applies to me as a commenter as well. Been failing in that corridor!

As Deadly Chakram would say: Battle On!


I've noticed that too. Where is everyone at? It's like after October everyone just kinda slowly disappeared.

Possible scenarios?

Election depression?

Ice Storm knocked the internet / Power out

Food Coma from the holidays

Lex Luthor has abducted our Folcs?

Tempus stole everyone's login info?

2016 ..... the year that stole our childhood. Its a lot to recover from.
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
Like the Videos? Subscribe on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/folc4evernaday

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#273263 - 01/09/17 11:39 AM Re: Comments aka Where Have All the Folcs Gone? [Re: folc4evernaday]
cuidadora Online   happy
Beat Reporter

Registered: 07/26/14
Posts: 349
Loc: East Coast USA
Funny list folc4evernaday! laugh

RL has been my issue.

My county was hit hard by Hurricane Matthew in October. The area was like a war zone, big trees damaging power lines and buildings. Immediately after the storm, people were walking around in shock. The ground was saturated from previous rains, and the winds and rain from the hurricane brought a lot of trees down.

Everything was closed: stores including groceries & Wal-Mart for several days, schools for 2 weeks, no electricity, phone or cell phones for 5 days, no Internet for 8, and even I-95 was closed. No fast food either, as the power loss meant they and the grocery stores had to get new supplies in for both fresh and frozen foods. I spent most of the week eating canned foods that I heated on my camp stove.

Part of my roof's shingles blew off, and I'm still finding shingles in my trees. It was a month until the main road to the nearest town was repaired. There were over 50,000 workers in the area restoring services. Even my insurance adjuster traveled from Texas to South Carolina.

With all that, I haven't felt much like reading stories that are filled with angst, so I haven't commented as much as usual.

Another issue is, where are the writers? There are quite a few stories that are incomplete, and have been for weeks or months. My incentive to comment goes down when a story seems abandoned. I must admit that two of my stories I thought were complete when I posted, needed additional chapters so I've been there.
_________________________
Cuidadora

"Honey, we don't care if you were a Russian or a Martian... You were ours. That's all we knew and we weren't giving you to anybody." ~ Martha in Strange Visitor

"Boy, I must be in trouble. The cavalry's here." Clark in Chip Off the Old Clark


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#273264 - 01/09/17 12:24 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Morgana Offline
Kerth

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 2471
Loc: Somewhere on the East Coast
Quote:
Another issue is, where are the writers? There are quite a few stories that are incomplete, and have been for weeks or months. My incentive to comment goes down when a story seems abandoned. I must admit that two of my stories I thought were complete when I posted, needed additional chapters so I've been there.


Many writers have abandoned their stories because of little or no feedback. People do not continue writing if the audience is silent. Many writers put in hours of research and editing to present a story that FoLCs would love to read.

On the other hand, some writers fall in love with a story and then the muse takes off, hence the fic is abandoned which is a real shame.

Those are just two of my theories. But to all of you who are reading my words, it would be amazing if occasionally a line or two about the story was dropped into the FDK folder. As someone once said, 'comments equal love'.
_________________________
Morgana

A writer's job is to think of new plots and create characters who stay with you long after the final page has been read. If that mission is accomplished than we have done what we set out to do, which is to entertain and hopefully educate.

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#273265 - 01/09/17 01:09 PM Re: Comments aka Where Have All the Folcs Gone? [Re: Morgana]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: Morgana
Many writers have abandoned their stories because of little or no feedback. People do not continue writing if the audience is silent. Many writers put in hours of research and editing to present a story that FoLCs would love to read.


It's hard to keep the muse going when you're not getting much FDK. I've been STRUGGLING to get through Ghost From the Past. WTA and WCCCD were 3x the size of this one and it wasn't nearly as hard because the boards were more active with FDK.


Originally Posted By: Morgana
Those are just two of my theories. But to all of you who are reading my words, it would be amazing if occasionally a line or two about the story was dropped into the FDK folder. As someone once said, 'comments equal love'.


^WSS


Originally Posted By: cuidadora
Funny list folc4evernaday! laugh

RL has been my issue.

My county was hit hard by Hurricane Matthew in October. The area was like a war zone, big trees damaging power lines and buildings. Immediately after the storm, people were walking around in shock. The ground was saturated from previous rains, and the winds and rain from the hurricane brought a lot of trees down.

Everything was closed: stores including groceries & Wal-Mart for several days, schools for 2 weeks, no electricity, phone or cell phones for 5 days, no Internet for 8, and even I-95 was closed. No fast food either, as the power loss meant they and the grocery stores had to get new supplies in for both fresh and frozen foods. I spent most of the week eating canned foods that I heated on my camp stove.

Part of my roof's shingles blew off, and I'm still finding shingles in my trees. It was a month until the main road to the nearest town was repaired. There were over 50,000 workers in the area restoring services. Even my insurance adjuster traveled from Texas to South Carolina.

With all that, I haven't felt much like reading stories that are filled with angst, so I haven't commented as much as usual.

Another issue is, where are the writers? There are quite a few stories that are incomplete, and have been for weeks or months. My incentive to comment goes down when a story seems abandoned. I must admit that two of my stories I thought were complete when I posted, needed additional chapters so I've been there.


That's awful cuidadora! I'm so sorry! Hope RL turns around soon. We've had crazy weather this past year. Hot one minute and freezing the next. What is up with that?

I've been trying to keep my posts at a weekly basis with both my current stories but sometimes RL just takes over. :P
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
Like the Videos? Subscribe on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/folc4evernaday

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#273266 - 01/09/17 01:25 PM Re: Comments aka Where Have All the Folcs Gone? [Re: Morgana]
KenJ Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 3791
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Cuidadora,

One way around reading stories that go unfinished is to read authors that promise up front that before the first post is made the story is complete.

I encourage all of the writers I beta for to do that. Not all take my advice. But there it is.

Rest assured, all of my stories are complete before I start to post so I cannot abandon the story.
_________________________
Herb replied, “My boy, I never say … impossible.” "Lois and Clarks"

My stories can be found here

kj

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#273267 - 01/09/17 01:34 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Mike M Offline

Features Writer

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 911
Loc: Tulsa, OK
I like Cuidadora don't care much for the high angst stuff that seems to be the norm these days so I don't read much and if I don't read much I don't FDK much. It is pretty much that straight forward.

Another possibility is that the series is reaching 20 years since the last new episode was aired and there were only 4 seasons (87 episodes). As unpopular an opinion as it may be, maybe the age is beginning to get to the source material. I mean most of the non-short (one shot to a couple of chapters) stories these days seem to be AU which makes sense given the number of times the most popular episodes have been re-hashed.

Mike
_________________________
We cannot cure the world of sorrows, but we can choose to live in joy. - Joseph Campbell

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#273268 - 01/09/17 01:40 PM Re: Comments aka Where Have All the Folcs Gone? [Re: Morgana]
Darth Michael Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 7872
*big sigh*

I'm having the boards as my start page in the browser, so I'm here daily but due to an odd intersection of RL and time (anybody seen 2014, 2015 and 2016 lying around somewhere? I seem to have misplaced them huh), I'm very careful on starting on new, long stories. I probably need to work on that but I feel like the only thing worse than starting with a story is not getting to finish it. But yes, it *is* quiet right now. I hope it picks up again.

wave Michael, who's hoping 2017 will provide more spare time.
_________________________
I go by Michael on the Archives.

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#273271 - 01/09/17 03:14 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
LMA Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 1404
Loc: USA
Hey everyone wave...

Well, my 'quiet' has pretty much everything to do with holiday-related stuff...

December literally felt like I was just trying to stay afloat--I have a 5 and 7 year old, and there seemed to be a never-ending array of things going on and prepping for the holidays to do. Then, we hosted family at our house--which meant the few days prior to and then after the holidays were pretty busy. Then, we ended up traveling out of state to visit my husband's family for almost a week--which meant that early January was pretty busy, too. And now, wonderfully, my sister and her husband/one year old are visiting from the other side of the country. They are here for two weeks--we went to my parents house and spend a weekend there all together, and now we are planning on hosting them at our house mid-week through the weekend. So pretty much, throw regular normal busy life into a lot of extra plans and you have the situation that has unfolded here smile.

I have been constantly craving 'Lois & Clark'--the characters, all the awesome stories I've been reading here, some other stories I have started on the Archive, AND very much hanging out here with everyone. I've really missed you all and leaving FDK. (I have been--daily--checking in here. Seeing what's posted, what's going on. But I always FDK when I read, and since I havne't had time to read, I didn't have much to post).

Anyway, my absense is literally totally due to some seasonal busy times. I'm planning on being here as normal ASAP when plans slow down.

Very much want to support all the awesome talent here. You all are amazing writers, and I honestly think the world of you for keeping 'Lois & Clark' going. PLEASE continue grovel notworthy clap...

Laura

PS--Cuidadora: So sorry to hear all that you've had to go through. Thinking about you!



Edited by LMA (01/09/17 03:15 PM)
_________________________
"Where's Clark?" "Right here."

...two simple sentences--with so much meaning.

~Lois and Clark in 'House of Luthor'~

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#273273 - 01/09/17 05:48 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
NostalgiaKick Offline
Beat Reporter

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 477
Loc: Toowoomba, Australia
Well, I'll admit I have always been a terrible commenter. Part of that is I never know what to say- my basic social awkwardness raising its head. As a reader, I'll try and get better at that!

Originally Posted By: Morgana
Many writers have abandoned their stories because of little or no feedback. People do not continue writing if the audience is silent. Many writers put in hours of research and editing to present a story that FoLCs would love to read.

This. So much this. I for one cannot write in a vacuum. I get excited to post a new chapter or a new story, and if it's a WIP, feedback (good or bad) helps spur me on to finish the story. And when you've been working on a story for a long time, finally feel ready to start posting, and you get... nothing, it's incredibly dispiriting.

Cuidadora- that's awful! I hope things are getting better for you and your county.

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#273275 - 01/09/17 06:06 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Good question, Morgana. I've been on the MB for several years, and I noticed that participation has been gradually dropping off, but that this past year there had been a sharp decline. And its not just stories, but other sections of the MB, as well.

My silence is due to my being so overwhelmed at work that I consider myself lucky if I have ten minutes free on any given day -- weekends included. I simply haven't had time to read, let alone write, any stories lately, and that isn't likely to change until the summer at the earliest. frown

- Lynn

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#273276 - 01/09/17 06:18 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
cuidadora Online   happy
Beat Reporter

Registered: 07/26/14
Posts: 349
Loc: East Coast USA
Thanks everyone for your concern. Things are definitely better. I'm fine, and the county is recovering. I only mentioned it to explain why I haven't been real active in comments lately. At this point, I am using fan fiction to relax, and heavy duty angst just doesn't do it.

I also understand the frustration writers have with no or few comments. It does seem as though there are really only a few people who comment regularly. And that occurs on other fan fiction boards I've seen. I must admit that I lurked for awhile before getting up the courage to register, let alone comment! It seems silly now, but I was hesitant to comment until I learned more about the boards. And both writers and readers have RL issues. Even if a story is completed, I can see there may be delays in posting when RL interferes.

Thanks, Ken. I need to check out more of your stories. And I will try to do better at commenting. It never occurred to me until a few months ago that it was okay to comment on a story that had been posted in the archives. To quote one of L&C's favorite villains, "DUH!"
_________________________
Cuidadora

"Honey, we don't care if you were a Russian or a Martian... You were ours. That's all we knew and we weren't giving you to anybody." ~ Martha in Strange Visitor

"Boy, I must be in trouble. The cavalry's here." Clark in Chip Off the Old Clark


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#273282 - 01/09/17 09:06 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
sarah Offline
Hack from Nowheresville

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Michigan
Being a lurker and not a writer, I have to say a reason for me personally is the unfinished stories. I can see both sides. The writer putting in hours crafting and honing a story (or parts of a story) to their liking, and then no feedback has to be disheartening. As the reader, investing time in the story and characters, to have it sit unfinished for weeks, months or years is a bit frustrating. That has been my main reason for the lack of comments on my side of things. Plus, the holiday craziness. Family outings, more hours of work, dealing with cranky customers (retail), all adds to less time to read and comment. That said I have been a regular follower for years. I visit here, the archive, or Anneplace on a daily basis. From a loyal follower and fan, Sarah
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www.zazzle.com/designsbyhebert

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#273283 - 01/10/17 06:40 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
CLeuch Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 01/24/16
Posts: 56
Loc: Iowa
I see a lot of things going on:
Way back when I entered the fandom, we had (Zoomway's) boards for fic and comments, but we also had a thriving IRC channel, and the people whose fic you read and who did the commenting were there to chat with and hang out with every night. You were friends...mostly. I used to comment on WIP's back then. But as time went by, a couple things happened:
- Those who made the fic boards made it clear that any type of constructive comments were not welcome, because it might hurt someone's feelings. It kinda made the comments thread a safe space before that was a thing. I have no issue with encouraging authors, but I also want to read good fic, and don't see any problem with offering some constructive feedback if it's in good faith. I lost that argument, so...I don't comment on stories anymore.
- IRC became outdated. I haven't tried to logon to the channel in probably 9 years, mostly because I would need to find a program that would get me there. I feel disconnected from the community now.
- Life happens. The people who were into the fandom are mostly gone now, no though some of us old-times come back upon occasion, I image that those of us who were college kids back then have families and lack the time to devote to all this.

I agree to some extent that the show has been gone long enough that it's getting forgotten, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there still is a fandom that cares. That's a testament to the show.

Personally, I still read fic, but only completed stories. Currently, I'm waiting for the Kerth list to come out to give me some reading material to dig into. To the writers out there: keep writing. And take it on faith that we're still reading, even if it's not immediate. If you believe in your story, you should have all the motivation you need.

-Cindy
_________________________
"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

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#273285 - 01/10/17 07:33 AM Re: Comments [Re: CLeuch]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: CLeuch
Those who made the fic boards made it clear that any type of constructive comments were not welcome, because it might hurt someone's feelings. It kinda made the comments thread a safe space before that was a thing. I have no issue with encouraging authors, but I also want to read good fic and don't see any problem with offering some constructive feedback if it's in good faith. I lost that argument, so...I don't comment on stories anymore.


When did this happen? I don't remember that being a thing....(Although I was MIA from 2011-2015 due to some family issues) I always thought constructive criticism was always welcome. huh shock


Originally Posted By: CLeuch
IRC became outdated. I haven't tried to logon to the channel in probably 9 years, mostly because I would need to find a program that would get me there. I feel disconnected from the community now.


What is IRC? Is it a chat room?
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
Like the Videos? Subscribe on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/folc4evernaday

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#273286 - 01/10/17 12:05 PM Re: Comments [Re: folc4evernaday]
CLeuch Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 01/24/16
Posts: 56
Loc: Iowa
Quote:
When did this happen? I don't remember that being a thing

It was one of the things that lead to the creation of these boards... Zoom's boards were where all fic went before. There was a bit of an acrimonious split, and here we are. Zoom's boards still have a fic section, but they are completely devoid of commenters at this point.

IRC = internet relay chat. Like I said, it is old school.
IRC information
We even got together from time to time - LAFF (L.A. FoLC Fest) was held every year starting when the show was still on the air. I went in 2002, I believe. We were a fairly close-knit group. That's part of what makes this fandom special, was how friendly everyone was. But again, time marches on, and it's hard to bring in new blood for a show that is no longer on the air. There's been some nostalgia lately, thanks to Dean Cain (and Superman) being on Supergirl...I wish the show would wind up on Netflix.

So...it's not all about the story comments, though I guess fic is what these boards are all about. A lot of my FoLC friends were into gossip, and that's fine, too. It's about the interaction and the friendships. And, of course, loving a show that was fun to watch and tickled our imaginations.
_________________________
"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

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#273288 - 01/10/17 12:43 PM Re: Comments [Re: CLeuch]
Darth Michael Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 7872
Originally Posted By: CLeuch
Quote:
When did this happen? I don't remember that being a thing

It was one of the things that lead to the creation of these boards... Zoom's boards were where all fic went before. There was a bit of an acrimonious split, and here we are. Zoom's boards still have a fic section, but they are completely devoid of commenters at this point.


Hi Cindy, not to start a discussion on comments or anything like that and I wasn't there back in the day, so I only know things via the FAQs but the entry on FDK actually is quite encouraging towards constructive criticism etc: http://www.lcficmbs.com/faqs.html#qfdk_what
Did this come about later (but before 2007, since I remember reading the FAQ back then) or is it just some misunderstanding?

wave Michael
_________________________
I go by Michael on the Archives.

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#273293 - 01/10/17 02:44 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
cuidadora Online   happy
Beat Reporter

Registered: 07/26/14
Posts: 349
Loc: East Coast USA
Originally Posted By: CLeuch
There's been some nostalgia lately, thanks to Dean Cain (and Superman) being on Supergirl...I wish the show would wind up on Netflix.


Hi Cindy,

Not to hijack this thread, but a quick response is that the last 5 episodes of Supergirl are available for free on tablets and some other devices on the CW Network (no cable TV needed). You can get the apps at The CW App. As far as I know Dean Cain has not been on this season yet, although I haven't seen an episode lately.
_________________________
Cuidadora

"Honey, we don't care if you were a Russian or a Martian... You were ours. That's all we knew and we weren't giving you to anybody." ~ Martha in Strange Visitor

"Boy, I must be in trouble. The cavalry's here." Clark in Chip Off the Old Clark


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#273294 - 01/10/17 02:50 PM Re: Comments [Re: cuidadora]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: cuidadora

Not to hijack this thread, but a quick response is that the last 5 episodes of Supergirl are available for free on tablets and some other devices on the CW Network (no cable TV needed). You can get the apps at The CW App. As far as I know Dean Cain has not been on this season yet, although I haven't seen an episode lately.


Roku! If you have a Roku you can get all the SuperGirl episodes for free on the CW app. wink He's in Season 2...I think it was the last episode or maybe the one before that before the holiday break.
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
Like the Videos? Subscribe on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/folc4evernaday

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#273299 - 01/10/17 05:00 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
CLeuch Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 01/24/16
Posts: 56
Loc: Iowa
Actually I meant I wish Lois and Clark would wind up on Netflix. And Dean has been on Supergirl this season, in the last episode, I think (or the one before that)...the "Cyborg Superman" (who isn't Cyborg Superman, but Cyborg Hank Henshaw) episode.

And the acrimony regarding constructive criticism happened well before 2007. I want to say 2005? I don't want to dig up the old threads...suffice to say, it's not a misunderstanding. And it doesn't matter now anyway - everyone involved is gone now. Just, you know, wanted to let people know that I value their writing but I won't leave comments and it's not personal.
_________________________
"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

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#273303 - 01/10/17 10:00 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
chickberry Offline
Hack from Nowheresville

Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 102
Loc: Las Vegas
I've been really flaky in the boards the past year or so and still have an almost finished story sitting on my HD but RL has just gotten in the way.

My 6yo has adhd and since we moved last year out of LV, his new school hasn't had the right environment to keep him busy enough to where it's not a problem. He was reading better half way through kindergarten at his private school in LV, because the public schools are atrocious, than his private school here in 1st grade. I now work from home, my jobs still in LV, but as soon as he gets home I have to take or work with him on things that help him focus and work out his energy. Doesn't leave much time for writing.

We're now looking at moving again to find schools to better fit his needs so we're working on finish a huge remodel on our house. We gutted the basement to the studs and so that takes up the rest of my time.

I hope to finish up my story, which only needs 1.5 chapters, some time this year and I have 2 more long stories, both alt world, I'd like to commit to, but we'll have to see how RL goes. Right now I enjoy reading everyone's stories. Keeps me motivated to someday finish mine.

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#273308 - 01/11/17 11:02 AM Re: Comments [Re: CLeuch]
KenJ Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 3791
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Hi Cindy,

Originally Posted By: CLeuch
I see a lot of things going on:
Way back when I entered the fandom, we had (Zoomway's) boards for fic and comments, but we also had a thriving IRC channel, and the people whose fic you read and who did the commenting were there to chat with and hang out with every night. You were friends...mostly. I used to comment on WIP's back then. But as time went by, a couple things happened:
- Those who made the fic boards made it clear that any type of constructive comments were not welcome, because it might hurt someone's feelings. It kinda made the comments thread a safe space before that was a thing. I have no issue with encouraging authors, but I also want to read good fic, and don't see any problem with offering some constructive feedback if it's in good faith. I lost that argument, so...I don't comment on stories anymore.
- IRC became outdated. I haven't tried to logon to the channel in probably 9 years, mostly because I would need to find a program that would get me there. I feel disconnected from the community now.
- Life happens. The people who were into the fandom are mostly gone now, no though some of us old-times come back upon occasion, I image that those of us who were college kids back then have families and lack the time to devote to all this.

I agree to some extent that the show has been gone long enough that it's getting forgotten, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there still is a fandom that cares. That's a testament to the show.

Personally, I still read fic, but only completed stories. Currently, I'm waiting for the Kerth list to come out to give me some reading material to dig into. To the writers out there: keep writing. And take it on faith that we're still reading, even if it's not immediate. If you believe in your story, you should have all the motivation you need.

-Cindy


I don't know about anyone else, but I do NOT look for pats on the back. I want negative as well as positive comments. Take the gloves off. If I'm doing something you don't like or don't understand - LET ME KNOW!

How can I improve as an author if all I get are positive comments. I have some sharp corners that need to be removed.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, all of my stories are complete before post number one goes up so there will be no abandoned stories coming from me. That doesn't mean that corrections cannot be made to the story before it hits the archive.

If you have a legitimate beef with what I write, let me know. If I can't explain it to your satisfaction, I may have to change it before sending it to the archive. That is what the board is for.

All of the readers are being conscripted by us authors into doing beta for us.


Edited by KenJ (01/11/17 11:11 AM)
_________________________
Herb replied, “My boy, I never say … impossible.” "Lois and Clarks"

My stories can be found here

kj

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#273310 - 01/11/17 11:14 AM Re: Comments [Re: KenJ]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: KenJ
Hi Cindy,

Originally Posted By: CLeuch
I see a lot of things going on:
Way back when I entered the fandom, we had (Zoomway's) boards for fic and comments, but we also had a thriving IRC channel, and the people whose fic you read and who did the commenting were there to chat with and hang out with every night. You were friends...mostly. I used to comment on WIP's back then. But as time went by, a couple things happened:
- Those who made the fic boards made it clear that any type of constructive comments were not welcome, because it might hurt someone's feelings. It kinda made the comments thread a safe space before that was a thing. I have no issue with encouraging authors, but I also want to read good fic, and don't see any problem with offering some constructive feedback if it's in good faith. I lost that argument, so...I don't comment on stories anymore.
- IRC became outdated. I haven't tried to logon to the channel in probably 9 years, mostly because I would need to find a program that would get me there. I feel disconnected from the community now.
- Life happens. The people who were into the fandom are mostly gone now, no though some of us old-times come back upon occasion, I image that those of us who were college kids back then have families and lack the time to devote to all this.

I agree to some extent that the show has been gone long enough that it's getting forgotten, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there still is a fandom that cares. That's a testament to the show.

Personally, I still read fic, but only completed stories. Currently, I'm waiting for the Kerth list to come out to give me some reading material to dig into. To the writers out there: keep writing. And take it on faith that we're still reading, even if it's not immediate. If you believe in your story, you should have all the motivation you need.

-Cindy


I don't know about anyone else, but I do NOT look for pats on the back. I want negative as well as positive comments. Take the gloves off. If I'm doing something you don't like or don't understand - LET ME KNOW!

How can I improve as an author if all I get are positive comments. I have some sharp corners that need to be removed.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, all of my stories are complete before post number one goes up so there will be no abandoned stories coming from me. That doesn't mean that corrections cannot be made to the story before it hits the archive.

If you have a legitimate beef with what I write, let me know. If I can't explain it to your satisfaction, I may have to change it before sending it to the archive. That is what the board is for.

All of the readers are being conscripted by us authors into doing beta for us.


^WHS

notworthy hail

I'm with Ken. I love FDK no matter what. If something doesn't make sense...tell me why.

I personally think the banter between the reader and the author is what can help make the story even better. I write a good bit of the story ahead of time before posting. I'll take a break then come back to it and edit again before posting. Sometimes where I originally planned on taking a story is not where it ends up because of the FDK I get. I think its all a growing / learning process for all of us. Writers need readers and readers need writers.

As for the comments about the show just being too old....I refuse to believe that. My daughter is 11 years old...in Fifth grade and every one of her friends has heard of and seen the show and LOVES it. We have a new generation of LnC fans ready to take over the fandom. :P
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
Like the Videos? Subscribe on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/folc4evernaday

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#273315 - 01/11/17 01:49 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Queen of the Capes Offline
Kerth

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wouldn't YOU like to know?
I also dropped off in both reading and writing this past December, mostly due to getting completely steamrolled by work-related stuff. (Also, having to rely on my phone for internet when it no longer connects to my computer doesn't help.)

I'm also a bit guilty of posting incomplete fics and then having everyone suffer when my muse suddenly hits a wall. I'm sorry. FDK can certainly grease the wheels, but sometimes the only real solution is better outlining beforehand. frown. (Note: Lois Lane's Travels isn't dead, just...camatose.)

I also welcome criticism, as long as it's more useful than "LOL U Suk". wink It can hurt a bit, but silence is worse, because silence means apathy and no readers: I failed to hold the audience, and without FDK, I can't figure out why.

ETA: If I may ramble a bit, years before I became a folc, I belonged to a Batman fan-site called GothamCityUSA. One of my fondest memories is of some critiquing I got for my first entry into a CYOA fanfic contest: It was awful, everything happened randomly, there was no plot and no point. I took this information to heart, making "plot" and "point" my watchwords for my next submission. The result? That second submission won "Hands Down" and now there's a used-in-production animation cell hanging on my wall. cool


Edited by Queen of the Capes (01/11/17 02:04 PM)
_________________________
Dating Sims for girls. Because Bishies! laugh

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#273316 - 01/11/17 03:17 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
NostalgiaKick Offline
Beat Reporter

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 477
Loc: Toowoomba, Australia
Originally Posted By: Queen of the Capes
I also welcome criticism, as long as it's more useful than "LOL U Suk". It can hurt a bit, but silence is worse, because silence means apathy and no readers: I failed to hold the audience, and without FDK, I can't figure out why.


You hit the nail on the head there, Queen of the Capes. I think that's particularly important if you're a new writer or even one that's trying something different. If you don't know what the problem is, how are you supposed to correct it? I don't mind being told that what I've written is somehow lacking, as long as it's constructive.

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#273319 - 01/11/17 04:56 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
LMA Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 1404
Loc: USA
I really truely hope that the show is not being forgotten...

IMO, the fact that the storyline is rooted in 'Superman' is/will continue to be a key to its relevance. The Christopher Reeves movies, the comics, the Superman shows prior to and after 'Lois & Clark'--our show is part of the history of the superhero--and it always, into the future, will continue to be. And the fact that 'Lois & Clark' was in so many ways different from other Superman incarnations can only add to the benefits.

Ironically, for me, 'Superman' really had no barring on me watching the show. I saw ads for the Pilot, and in those ads I saw chemistry, banter, wit. When I watched the show I saw even more love notworthy. I very much watch a show, a movie, read a book, for the relationship between the characters. I want to be romanced grin. And frankly, still to this day, nothing has ever come remotely close to the chemistry that is 'Lois & Clark'. The reason that 20-some-odd-years-later I'm still so enamored with this show is the relationship and the growth of the characters because of their relationship. It's amazing--and that attachment I've developed (like others have), I really believe, is part of what has kept fans coming back for more.

Like I've said many times, these boards--and the Archive--have truely meant the world to me. If I ever have time for myself, I'm here, hands down. I love that the show, these characters, are kept alive here. And I really, really thank you all for each of your parts in that (writing/beta'ing/FDK'ing/reading clap notworthy ).

I'm here for the long haul--may it be years (and many more years) to come hyper
Laura


Edited by LMA (01/11/17 08:03 PM)
_________________________
"Where's Clark?" "Right here."

...two simple sentences--with so much meaning.

~Lois and Clark in 'House of Luthor'~

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#273321 - 01/11/17 05:24 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
VirginiaR Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 9396
Loc: USA
/hangs head/ I admit I haven't been on the boards much lately (since starting my new job in August). I try to catch up when I can finally have peace and quiet in my house (10pm +), but I'm usually exhausted by that point that I'm falling behind both on my FDK and my writing. I'm sorry for falling behind on Unmasked. blush It *is* on my to-read list, when I can scrape time together. My apologies.

My daughter has been assigned a bunch of research reports and papers this year that half the time I can't get on my computer because she's on it. (Hence that 10pm+ time.) 6th grade is a lot tougher than when I took it. I didn't have 4 hours of homework every night. That's for sure!

I'm still working on Wrong Clark (currently working on 235, I believe). Yeah. I know this story got away from and me and around the world and back again. I've also been distracted from it by a couple (or 3) short stories, lately. I've vowed not to post any more long (or short) stories without completing them first (not including WC), which is why I've only posted the one. My muse also went on an unscheduled vacation for a while this fall and didn't leave a forwarding address. I've only just gotten her back, but she's still acting a bit lackadaisical.

Supergirl (S1) is on Netflix's Instant list. Although, I haven't had a chance to see more than the pilot. I've been catching up on Arrow, Flash, Gotham, GoT, and other shows. Not enough time, too many shows to watch.

Cuidadora, I'm sorry about your recent misfortunes. Good luck and I hope 2017 is a much better year for you!
_________________________
VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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#273322 - 01/11/17 06:59 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
scifiJoan Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 1172
Loc: out in the cornfields
I've really enjoyed this group but for the past few years, my heart hasn't been into it. There have been too many life changes - kids in high school, all the activities (with traveling teams and constant driving), and now the transition to college, along with my own job changes. I want to be excited about fandom. I miss writing fan fiction. But it's just not happening right now, not for any fandom I'm involved with. I'm hoping once my youngest graduates high school that I'll find my way back.

Sounds like a lot of us are dealing with life issues...

Joan

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#273323 - 01/11/17 11:09 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Deadly Chakram Online   happy
Pulitzer

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 4487
Loc: Connecticut
I've fallen off the boards a bit too, sadly.

1. Warcraft came out with an expansion in August. I got sucked back into the game pretty severely, as it was the best one out of the last couple of expansions. That took me (nightly) until about Thanksgiving.

2. Everyone was sick for pretty much all of November. First it was the girls, then me, then my husband, then me again. I was usually heading to bed early or at least too out of it to read or write much.

3. The holidays happened.

4. My kids stopped napping Father's Day weekend. It's been great - I can do more without having to worry about getting home in time for naps. But I miss those couple hours of reading and writing time.

5. My muse has hit a wall. I have too many projects in various stages of completion. It's just hard to concentrate on fics right now. Even reading them. I know a huge part of that hiatus my muse is on is from the quietness on the boards. It's hard to be motivated when the feedback isn't there.

6. I'm a bit burnt out. After rewatching the show for the first time in years back in 2010 or 2011, I've been steadily reading and writing. It's not that I don't have an interest anymore, I'm just...I don't know. Tired. Not of reading and writing. Just...having a hard time getting a handle on the things I want to write. Also, my husband is back to doing (voluntary, thank God!) overtime. So twice a week it's just me with the kids (now 3, almost 3.5 years) from before they get up until they are going to bed. And every Saturday morning until noon. I'm just physically exhausted most nights. (In a good way, but still tired!)


As for the feedback stuff:

I love feedback of any kind, so long as it's constructive. It's depressing to get no feedback at all. But it's also not helpful (and this is not a problem here, but on fanfiction.net, which I also post my stories on) to get "Good story" or "I didn't like it." Particularly when it's the only feedback on a, say, 20 part story.

I don't take offense to negative feedback. I think questions and concerns can better my writing, and, in fact, I have, on a number of occasions, taken those negative criticisms and altered my story prior to sending it to the archive. It's always a great thing to know that something needs clarification or doesn't sound in character enough, so that I can fix it and learn from my mistakes.

I'll admit, straight up, I don't read unfinished stories, with the very rare exception. A Part 1/? is my signal to stay away until I see it change to Part X/37, for example. I've gotten burnt too many times (again, on fanfiction.net) where the author just never finishes the story or takes months to post each update. Likewise, I am never comfortable posting a story until I am completely done writing, or within the last chapter or two, and even that's rare. I prefer to be 100% done with a story before posting anything.

All of this being said, I'm hoping to find my inspiration again soon and become much more active. That and maybe rewatch the series again to aid my muse in new fic ideas.
_________________________
Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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#273349 - 01/13/17 02:01 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Morgana Offline
Kerth

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 2471
Loc: Somewhere on the East Coast
WOW. shock

Completely bowled over by to sheer amount of feedback my comment has garnered. I think if writers received half this much FDK this msbs would be hopping! party

We all are facing many challenges as to why we are not writing either stories or comments all of them make a lot of sense:

Cuidadora

Quote:
My county was hit hard by Hurricane Matthew in October.


MikeM, and others (myself included)

Quote:
I like Cuidadora don't care much for the high angst stuff that seems to be the norm these days


Darth Michael

Quote:
I'm having the boards as my start page in the browser, so I'm here daily but due to an odd intersection of RL and time.


Right there with you Michael! Since I joined the msbs in April, 2010 time has always been an issue, between work, family, knitting and just plain running around the only time I can write is between the hours of 3:30 and 5:30 in the morning. After that, it time to hit the gym, walk the dog and get ready for work. It is one of the reasons why there are so few stories from me and why from conception to posting it takes at least a year.

Think I'm kidding? Ask UltraWoman, KenJ or MikeM they can tell you how long it takes to receive a chapter!

Commenting, on the other hand is much easier. Its pleasurable to tell an author how well he or she's story is! I can remember the first time seeing Anti-Kryptonite's story A Father's Kryptonite or Deadly Chakram's amazing Contractually Bound. Both stories are on my hard drive and many is the time when in an airport I have turned to read them. They just keep getting better each time! KenJ's Matchmaker series still makes me smile.

Writing feedback for these stories and countless others has been a joy. I hope to read more in the future.

I prefer getting both negative and positive feedback, as long as it is not harsh criticism for its own sake. I have experienced that in the past and it is not a picnic. It is sad that some writers on other websites have been so overwhelmed by something like that that they give up entirely. This is unfortunate, because they are ignoring a precious talent and we as readers lose out on a wonderful reading experience.

All in all it has been a joy working with FoLC's and after a brief hiatus I'm looking forward to seeing more imaginative and fun stories about our favorite reporting duo!
_________________________
Morgana

A writer's job is to think of new plots and create characters who stay with you long after the final page has been read. If that mission is accomplished than we have done what we set out to do, which is to entertain and hopefully educate.

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#273357 - 01/14/17 08:23 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Terry Leatherwood Offline
Kerth

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 2393
Loc: Southwest USA
Some FoLCs don't like angst? Makes me wonder how some of us got through some of the really emotional episodes in the series. TOGOM comes to mind, as do any of the ones where Lois' deep desire for children - natural or adopted - is thwarted by biology or her reputation. When Clark "died" from that Kryptonian virus, Lois' pain was very true-to-life. And who can forget Clark's heart agony when he threw the engagement ring into space, then flew out to fetch it just because hope yet lived in him?

If you read a book on writing fiction, the author will tell you very quickly that you must have some drama in your tale. Without that pressure, your characters cannot grow and mature, just as a diamond will remain a lump of carbon without tons of pressure over time pressing on it. The best comedies of both the silver and small screens contain elements of drama, if only to make the laughter more natural.

A person's true character is not formed by pressure or tension, but the person's character is revealed by that pressure and tension. Clark is Superman - but not because he has powers. He is Superman because he is Clark, who is a good man with a strong moral center. How many times have we read (or written) that if one such as Lex Luthor had Superman's powers it would be a complete disaster for the entire world?

No one can live his or her life without some drama. It's rarely fun, but prevailing against the pressure and tension is something we all must do else we crumble and fall away. And one of the ways people learn to deal with angst is to watch others do so successfully. If Clark and Lois can succeed under diamond-inducing pressure, maybe we can learn something from them and apply that something to our own lives.

I do not mean to belittle light, comedic, or purely romantic tales. I do not insist that a trip to these boards means an automatic buzzkill. If you check my list of stories on the archive (here), you'll find a few which meet the low-angst threshold of nearly everyone who reads them. There is room for all kinds of stories. I only suggest that we all give the truly dramatic tales a fair chance to stand on their own and please your reading palate.
_________________________
After weeks at sea, Captain Fetherstonhaugh and his hardy crew had at last crossed the halfway point, and he mused that the closest dry land now lay in the Americas, assuming of course that it was not raining there.

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#273359 - 01/14/17 09:24 AM Re: Comments [Re: Terry Leatherwood]
Mike M Offline

Features Writer

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 911
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Terry,

I actually have typed responses to this thread a couple of times and deleted them without posting. I feel like I have to reply to this. First I never said I did not care for angst, I said I did not care for stories heavy with angst. Where the angst is the reason for the story and permeates the story throughout. Ones where there is 19 chapters of angst followed by an epilogue that either magically fixes the angst or in so many of your stories just ends.

You mentioned the heavy angst episodes of the series and most of those I have watched once and never have felt the need to go back rewatch. As Laura said I got hooked on the series due to its banter, chemistry, and wit. Remove those elements and I go meh. So many of the recent stories have little (some have none) of those elements and so I don't find them compelling to read.

I look at the Best Overall Story Kerth winners for the past 10 years and I read DebbieG's Fictitious Persons, Female Hawk's Trusting Me, Trusting You, and Sue S.'s Honeymoon in Vegas. Of those Fictitious Persons was my favorite by far and it was not without its angsty moments but the angst was not the underlying purpose of the story. Now I understand that not everyone will agree with me but as I am so fond of saying: I cannot tell you what to write, but I can tell me what to read.

As for reading palates, at 69 heading towards 70 my palate is pretty well set and I read for entertainment and if something does not entertain me I quit reading it. If torturing the characters is entertaining to you well that is your decision.

I often wonder how many readers have felt the way Cindy and I do but just left rather than voicing those views. I guess we will never know as they probably will not be back.

Mike
_________________________
We cannot cure the world of sorrows, but we can choose to live in joy. - Joseph Campbell

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#273361 - 01/14/17 10:25 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
AnnieL Offline
Blogger

Registered: 12/29/15
Posts: 31
I almost never read fanfic, not because I don't like it, but because the majority of stories (that I've read) are either out of character or completely out of tone with the show.
Terry, you have a good point. Stories need some drama. The show definitely had serious, emotional moments, but it did not dwell on them. There was always hope, even when there wasn't, and the show only focused enough to get a feel of the reality in the episode. When Clark almost died, they let us see the family's grief; but as soon as it was possible, they let us see their hope. We did not see Lois sobbing at her own place or Martha and Jonathan soberly waiting to hear news. We saw the next morning, and then came the call that Clark was awake.

For me, I'm just picky about characterization. If the first thing Lois does when finding out Clark's secret is think how great of a pulitzer it would make (even if she would never write it), I'll be turned off almost immediately. I don't care if it's in season one or later, or how many trust issues Lois has. She would never do that. Clark would never have fallen in love with someone as horrible as that. However, I realize some people have different opinions on this, and I respect that.
On the contrary, Clark running off after Lois rejects him in BatP and ceasing to help her is so completely out of character I can't even understand where the writer is coming from. Maybe they just wanted to explore another option-what would happen if Clark did this or that? And that's fine, except that Clark didn't do this or that, since we know how he reacts; but more importantly, a lot of times Clark would never do this or that. And that bugs me, because usually it's something that degrades the character.

No one's going to get a character perfectly, and I'm actually pretty good at ignoring things. But sometimes it does get to be a bit much, though that's just my opinion. smile

I'll read heavy angst if it's well-written. If Lois and Clark only get stronger through it, if there are hopeful moments in the darkness, and if they fix the situation together, I think it can make a great story. But if we had a circumstance like TAGD, where Clark is faced with a truly hopeless situation (if Clark can never come back from NK, or if he can't find another way to save his friends and the city at the same time), it's doesn't fit in well with the tone of the show or of Superman in general. Superman's all about hope, all about there being another way. I would prefer, in that situation, to read something more hopeful.

By all means, though, keep writing! I've seen some great writing out there, even if I'm not always the right audience for it!
_________________________
"I really do believe that we're all put here on this earth, or whatever planet we're put on, to do better than we think we can. To be kind, helpful, generous, and forgiving."
"You know something, CK? She's a class act."
"I've always thought so."

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#273362 - 01/14/17 03:01 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
cuidadora Online   happy
Beat Reporter

Registered: 07/26/14
Posts: 349
Loc: East Coast USA
Since I brought up the angst issue, I feel like I should reply again. My issue has been more that I look to fiction as a way to relax from RL, and I need to be in the right frame of mind for angst. In thinking about this issue, I've realized that my personal preference is to decide whether or not to read those stories after they're finished, and will likely do more of that in the future. Just my own preference, and at my age I don't see myself changing.

I agree with Mike and AnnieL. I got interested in the show L&C because of the banter and lighthearted moments. Basically I saw the pilot as a romantic comedy. No, the lighthearted moments don't have to be the entire story. The angst in the show rarely went beyond a single episode, although there are some notable exceptions. When the angst, which I feel is darker than drama, is the primary focus of a story and the lighthearted moments aren't there for relief, it's challenging for me to come back to each chapter and feel it's spiraling into more darkness. I like to feel that what I read is something I can control. When life is full of drama, it can be essential for emotional and physical health for a few minutes to find a relief. And not everyone finds that in angst. Nor does everyone find it in comedy, which can be challenging to write. Laughter does reduce the stress hormone level, which lowers blood pressure, pulse rate and has other healthy side effects.

And I think every writer should write what they want. That doesn't mean I will read every story, nor do I expect every reader to read and enjoy mine.


Edited by cuidadora (01/14/17 03:03 PM)
Edit Reason: typo correction
_________________________
Cuidadora

"Honey, we don't care if you were a Russian or a Martian... You were ours. That's all we knew and we weren't giving you to anybody." ~ Martha in Strange Visitor

"Boy, I must be in trouble. The cavalry's here." Clark in Chip Off the Old Clark


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#273363 - 01/14/17 05:52 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Terry,

Count me in the "not liking angst" group. I tend to avoid the more angst-laden episodes of L&C, and with rare exception, I avoid all angst-heavy fiction, both in and out of fandom. This avoidance is a deliberate choice. I will be the first to admit that I come to L&C to escape the angst in my real life. To give you a smattering of what I am talking about:

- My son has both physical and developmental disabilities that manifested literally from his first breath of life. By the time he was three days old, I had been told that he had diffuse brain lesions, and that he might never walk or talk. Shortly thereafter, he failed to thrive. Had he been born seven years earlier, he wouldn't have survived through his first year of life. As it was, he spent his first summer in the hospital while the doctors tried to figure out why he was projectile vomiting multiple times a day. He ceased eating and drinking altogether and was only kept alive by feeding tubes -- first one dropped down his nose, and then eventually one that was surgically implanted. Meal times were torture times for the first several years of his life.

- Our son's disabilities got to be too much for my then-husband, who walked out of our lives and, aside from paying a small fraction of the child support that he owes, has chosen to have nothing to do with us. (I don't even know where he is living any more.)

- My son was subsequently diagnosed with autism -- severe enough that now, as a teenager, he still has almost no expressive language, still needs help with basic hygiene (e.g., washing and drying hands), and still needs the level of supervision one typically gives to a two year old.

- As is not uncommon among nonverbal, hormone-riddled teenagers, my son sometimes lashes out in the only way he can -- physically. He has bruised me, his fingernails have dug into my skin until I bled, and he has kicked holes in his bedroom walls. (Fortunately, the medicine he is currently on has helped him regain his emotional equilibrium while not turning him into a zombie.)

- I have almost no support system. I can count on one hand the number of living relatives I have, and I am my son's youngest relative. My other family members live in another state, and have various health issues which preclude them from assisting me. Because of my son's special needs, I can't find a qualified babysitter, and because of his autism-related behavioural issues, I have difficulty even going to a grocery store with him. I can do fun things outside of the house exactly two weekends a year: The two weekends that he goes to an overnight camp for children with autism. The rest of the time, I am either at work or at home. I spend so much time being either "Mom" or "Dr. M." that I have almost forgotten who "Lynn" is.

Early on in my son's life, I was overwhelmed emotionally, and realized that I was seriously at risk of developing depression. I knew that my son needed me to be well enough to take care of him, and that depression would make that extremely difficult. At that point, I decided that, for his sake, I would do everything I could to try to be emotionally healthy. Among other things I did (e.g., deliberately seeking out silver linings), I promised myself that what little entertainment I would have time to indulge in would all be upbeat.

I freely admit that L&C is pure escapism for me. When I come to the MB, I want to read something that will leave me in a better mood than I was in when I came to it.

So to get back to your original post... Is there a place for angsty fiction? Absolutely. But just not for me, or at least not until such time as I have less angst in my real life.

Although I am sure that the specifics of the list I just gave above are unique to me, I imagine that I am not alone here in coming to the boards to find a brief respite from the troubles of RL.

Not much joy today,
Lynn

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#273364 - 01/15/17 06:43 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Shallowford Offline
Columnist

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 578
Loc: Michigan's thumb
Like everyone else, I've been swamped in RL. Work has been pretty consistent but several home projects with deadlines have been taking a lot of time. I have a significant commute and I have also devoted a bit of time to running favorite L&C Archive stories through text to speech so there is something engaging to listen to while driving.

I've never been very good at keeping multiple story lines separate unless they are from completely separate canons so I tend to read more completes stories than WIPs. Complete stories or stories from the Archive tend to get my comments as a result. Hopefully I will be able to get back to that as RL simmers down.

I've also noticed that the non-story related parts of the board have been really quiet. (General Discussion, Fanfic Challenge and Fanfic Related)

I still prefer our stories to those in the television show because of their depth and creativity. When I first came across the site the stories were good but it was the "community" aspect of these areas that drew me in most and made me want to participate. I realize how important feedback is to writers-and I have learned from the feedback as well- but those areas are still the first things I check when I load the site.

Several people have mentioned that this site is as close as they come to social media and I am one. I couldn't pick any of you out of a crowd but I enjoy your company.
_________________________
Shallowford

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#273383 - 01/16/17 01:04 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
VirginiaR Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 9396
Loc: USA
I read an article today on NPR about peer critiquing. It said that you should "Be kind, be specific, and be helpful." As a writer, I'll always accept that of feedback. I'll work even harder as a reader to make sure that my feedback fits all three of those criteria as well. (I'll also try to be funny, because we all need more laughter in our lives.)
_________________________
VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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#273385 - 01/16/17 05:32 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Terry Leatherwood Offline
Kerth

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 2393
Loc: Southwest USA
Lynn, my heart goes out to you. I know a little about what you're going through. In 1991, when our oldest child was twelve, he was diagnosed with a rare and aggressive form of cancer called PNET (Primitive Neural Ecto-dermal Tumor - genetically related to Ewing's sarcoma) and died sixteen months later following two major surgeries, months of chemotherapy, and multiple radiation treatments. It wasn't easy - in fact, sometimes it still isn't easy - but my wife and I have stayed together, trying to raise the four younger siblings. We had tons of pressure on us, and even though I never seriously considered leaving, I understood why other men would.

The problem? That's the coward's way out. If life were easy, anyone could do it. You are a hero, Lynn, along with all the other parents who have placed the health and welfare of their children before their own comfort. I'm sure that there have been those who mean well who have suggested institutional care for your son. And you deserve a huge hug and constant approbation for staying with him and taking care of him. I hope and pray that there is some relief for you in the future, although nothing is guaranteed.

I wish I could do something concrete for the two of you, but since I can't, I'll have to settle for applauding you for your faithfulness. May the Lord grant you peace and rest from your labors, and may your way always be clear - even if it's a steep and rocky grade.

For Lynn: clap clap thumbsup
_________________________
After weeks at sea, Captain Fetherstonhaugh and his hardy crew had at last crossed the halfway point, and he mused that the closest dry land now lay in the Americas, assuming of course that it was not raining there.

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#273386 - 01/16/17 07:51 AM Re: Comments [Re: Terry Leatherwood]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: Terry Leatherwood
In 1991, when our oldest child was twelve, he was diagnosed with a rare and aggressive form of cancer called PNET (Primitive Neural Ecto-dermal Tumor - genetically related to Ewing's sarcoma) and died sixteen months later following two major surgeries, months of chemotherapy, and multiple radiation treatments. It wasn't easy - in fact, sometimes it still isn't easy - but my wife and I have stayed together, trying to raise the four younger siblings.


Terry, I'm so sorry for your loss. whinging
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
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#273391 - 01/16/17 05:48 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Terry,

I am so sorry. I can't even begin to fathom the pain you and your whole family must have endured. As challenging as living with my son can be at times, living without him in the way you have to live without your eldest would be infinitely worst.

Thank you for your kind words. I am no hero, though... just a survivor. Had I chosen to adopt my son with full knowledge of his special needs, I would have been a hero; but my son is biologically my own child. I didn't volunteer for the lifestyle I live. (I had realized, of course, that with motherhood would come changes, but I never dreamt of what they would prove to be.) I'm just trying to make the best of the situation I am in, or, to bring this back to L&C, I'm just trying to be the "best blind man I can be." My son needs that from me; he's down one parent, so he needs his remaining one to step up her game.

In any event, I hadn't meant my post to be a downer. I had only detailed my situation as a way to illustrate that not everyone is in an emotional space where they can appreciate angsty stories.

Thank you for your prayers on our behalf; they are much appreciated. It is only by God's grace that I have developed the strength and patience necessary to grow into the mother that my son needs me to be.

Joy,
Lynn

p.s., Your wife is blessed that you chose to stay.

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#273395 - 01/16/17 11:10 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Deadly Chakram Online   happy
Pulitzer

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 4487
Loc: Connecticut
Lynn and Terry -

There are no adequate words for how sorry I am for all the terrible things you've had to endure. My prayers are with you both.
_________________________
Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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#273411 - 01/19/17 07:28 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Thanks, DC. As I mentioned to Terry above, all prayers on my son's and my behalf are *much* appreciated.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea, though -- My son was a very sweet boy and, when he isn't being an emotional teenager, he is usually a very sweet young man. It's just that his "moments" tend to be a lot more physical than those of a typically-developing teen. Most parents would be upset if their teenage kids yelled, "I hate you" at them; however, I suspect that those parents haven't considered what the alternative might be if their kids couldn't yell such hurtful things.

Here's hoping that my son -- like most teens -- will eventually outgrow this phase...

Joy,
Lynn

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#273412 - 01/19/17 09:48 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
CLeuch Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 01/24/16
Posts: 56
Loc: Iowa
Here's the issue with angst, as I see it: whereas the type of conflict that drives a plot in a typical story arises organically, angst tends to arise by the characters acting like idiots. How many plots could be resolved by having one of the characters talk to the other one and sort things out, instead of assuming things? The behaviors that the characters engage in to create the angst also generally puts them out of character, or at least out of show cannon (which I will point out again, is different than what has become fanfic cannon). Yes, there were some angsty moments on the show...and at the time it aired, I hated it in the show, too. I remember at the end of season two, I swore that I would stop watching the show if Clark didn't tell Lois in the first episode of season three. We know what happened, and to this day WHALTTA is my favorite episode of the show because it finally meant an end to all that.

As others mentioned, what made the show great was the subtle humor and the romantic tension. It didn't take itself too seriously, which is why I'm not big on the epic, angst-ridden stories. The show was fun, even when it got heavy, and the fic should be fun, too. But...different strokes for different folks. I've actually started reading Superman comics lately because those have been fun (and I justify it by saying that my 5-year-old likes to read them with me, which is true. We bond over Superman smile ).

-CIndy
_________________________
"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

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#273414 - 01/20/17 07:15 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Terry Leatherwood Offline
Kerth

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 2393
Loc: Southwest USA
Thanks to all those who have offered heartfelt sympathy and kind words, especially Lynn. Every parent I've been around goes through pain and suffering because of his or her child or children. Our other two sons didn't get along at all when they were younger. My wife went home one day to find them in the front yard, ready to go after each other, one with a baseball bat and one with a golf club. Just knowing how seriously they fought took a lot out of both of us. And I know that many others have faced equally difficult situations, even if they weren't quite so immediately dangerous.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled comments:

Mike M. wrote that he was certain that Lois would not have revealed Superman's real identity had she learned it at any time in the show's run, nor would she even have considered it. I don't buy that at all. As I mentioned before, drama and angst (however one defines that word) are the agents by which the characters grow and learn. Sometimes I think that people who don't like to read heavy drama are ones who have suffered great pain in their own lives and don't want to relive it. That's totally cool - I get that, I really do. And some just don't want reality to intrude on their escape strategy. That's also cool.

But if I'm honest with myself, the times when I've learned the most about myself and how I should live are the times when I've been under the most stress. When my family was going through all that pain a quarter-century ago, I thought about doing some dishonest things to relieve the financial pressure on us, despite my younger self's braggadocios proclamation that "I'd never do that for any reason!" I learned, though, that I could be tempted - even if I never did those things.

Season 1 Lois would indeed be tempted to print Superman's secret identity. She'd also be tempted to use his abilities in her investigations even if Clark thought it would be wrong. She might not have actually done those things, but to insist that those thoughts wouldn't even cross her mind denies her basic humanity and her opportunity to grow and mature as a person. Season 3 Lois wouldn't seriously consider it, and probably not even during mid-Season 2, because she'd become a different person by then.

How did this happen? Because of her own drama and angst pressing on her, reshaping her, squeezing out the impurities in her character and allowing the gold and silver to dominate.

I do not, nor will I ever, write a story just to insult someone or to prove that hey, I can torture these characters all I want! Not happening. I will, however, continue to put them in pressure situations which will force them to make choices which will make them grow and learn and improve as people. I think that was one of the messages of the show: Even with super-powers, you still have things to learn and ways to improve yourself.
_________________________
After weeks at sea, Captain Fetherstonhaugh and his hardy crew had at last crossed the halfway point, and he mused that the closest dry land now lay in the Americas, assuming of course that it was not raining there.

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#273415 - 01/20/17 09:12 AM Re: Comments [Re: Terry Leatherwood]
Mike M Offline

Features Writer

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 911
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Terry,

I don't remember writing that but who knows I don't remember a lot of things I did last week...

I agree with your assessment of Lois' state of mind throughout the series. I also agree that she might have been tempted to write the story early in Season 1 but probably less likely by the end. In the two stories I have looked at that covered that topic the most notable OOC thing I saw was Lois never approaching Clark/Superman for a comment or explanation on the story before publishing it. Same for Perry. Not very professional all in all.

My only point in response to your post was that I don't appreciate specific story lines and if I don't appreciate them I don't read them. I also found your comment at the end a bit insulting as you seemed to hint that if we don't like heavy angst/drama that our literary pallets are not sufficiently broadened. As I said I find that a bit insulting but you are entitled to your opinion. I have read many types of stories and find specific things I like and specific things I don't like. There are of course exceptions to everything. For instance I have re-read your story "She's" three or four times. Your expression of how each party felt (even Lois via video) was extremely spot on and I believe totally in character. The fact that it was short is/was also a positive as I find I can deal with angst in short bursts but get tired of it as it moves into double digit chapters. I also enjoyed "24 Hours" by Wendy as while angsty as all get out it the story was Lois and Clark together working on dealing with the possibility of Lois dying due to being poisoned. Rape stories I just don't read any more, personal choice.

I apologize if I came across like I was trying to tell anyone what they should or should not write as I will never do that. I am merely expressing what I will and will not read and back to the original subject what I will or will not FDK on any longer.

Mike





Edited by Mike M (01/20/17 09:15 AM)
_________________________
We cannot cure the world of sorrows, but we can choose to live in joy. - Joseph Campbell

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#273421 - 01/21/17 10:59 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
scifiJoan Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 1172
Loc: out in the cornfields
For fan fiction writing, there is something to be said about knowing your audience. As many have stated, most of us enjoy "Lois & Clark" because it is a lighter, positive show (compared to "Arrow" or "Gotham"). Personally, I lean towards reading and writing angst or darker stories. If I post those types of stories on this board, I'm aware that I won't have as many readers.

Terry brings up a good point about out of character behavior. That unique circumstances can bring this out and that in itself can produce a great story. Out of character behavior isn't necessarily set in stone. We all would agree Clark would never be cruel to some one but all bets are off if he's been exposed to some variant of Kryptonite. To me, that's part of the fun, what would bring about such behavior? To others, it's not as appealing.

As a writer, it's frustrating if people respond to your story, "That's out of character" and immediately drop it. If they'd continued to read, they might've found out why this was happening. I think that is part of what Terry is saying.

I used to beta for a girl who wrote CSI fanfiction. She focused on a minor character and also created an original character (a blatant Mary Sue) as the love interest. Both of those were automatic turn offs for me. But she was a friend so I helped her. Her stories were very well written, great use of language and descriptions. Good pacing and excellent plot. I didn't care for the Country western song lyrics showcased but it suited the stories. However, she presented the CSI crew totally out of character - they all hung out together, went bowling and square dancing, got ice cream, etc... They were all best buddies. This would be the equivalent of Lois, Clark, Perry and Jimmy routinely going to strip clubs and getting wasted every weekend. Not like the show. Not even remotely resembling the show. Like I said, her stories were good but she didn't get much of a response because that wasn't what most CSI fans liked.

Ultimately, people read what they want to read. And that's okay.

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#273426 - 01/21/17 03:00 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Female Hawk Offline
Kerth

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 2121
Loc: Nalangil, Australia
I read this thread a couple of days ago, and I have been mulling over it ever since.

The writer-reader relationship is delicately balanced in fanfic. One aspect I love about fanfic is that no money is involved. The writer freely gives his/her stories for anyone to read. The reader 'pays' by becoming involved in the story the writer is creating and giving comments.

I understand the disappointment when a reader commits to a story only to have to accept that the story will not be finished. However, the writer has already committed far more time and emotional involvement to the story than the reader has and is probably just as disappointed that the story wasn't finished. The difference, of course, is that the reader has very little control over getting the story finished. The writer might not have a lot of control, either, but has more than the reader.

Commenting on stories, even with the risk of them not being finished, is not a waste of time if you value fanfiction in general and this fandom in particular.

IMO if a significant portion of readers decide to comment only once a story is finished, the fanfiction part of this (or any) fandom will die quickly.

If, as a reader, you don't like something about the stories being written and posted (too much angst, not enough angst, characters not acting in character, too short, too long, too light, not light enough etc), why not write a story you would enjoy reading? Reading but not commenting contributes nothing to this community. Having strict and inflexible 'demands' that mean ditching most stories after a few paragraphs doesn't contribute much either.

The fact that we have more comments in this thread than many (all?) stories being posted is concerning, and possibly says something about the current health of LnC fanfic. Ultimately, the community will only survive if enough people care enough to make a contribution as a writer or a commenting reader or both.

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#273427 - 01/21/17 05:24 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
AnnieL Offline
Blogger

Registered: 12/29/15
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: Mike M
I don't remember writing that but who knows I don't remember a lot of things I did last week...

Actually, I think it might have been my comment Terry was referring to, and I appreciate your insight even if I have a different take.

Originally Posted By: scifiJoan
As a writer, it's frustrating if people respond to your story, "That's out of character" and immediately drop it. If they'd continued to read, they might've found out why this was happening. I think that is part of what Terry is saying.


And perhaps I should have been more clear on that. I definitely agree that it depends on the situation, and I'm all about unique circumstances. I always try to read or at least skim through most of the story, but a lot of times I can tell within the first few-several chapters whether it's something I'll like or not. It just depends.

Take a storyline similar to, say, the third season finale or TPVLL/DLW where Lois and Clark are torn apart enough to feel that anguish but ultimately solve the issue as a team and become stronger both individually and as a couple. Their relationship grew stronger and they weren't apart for very long. It was ultimately hopeful and humorous and uplifting. You can find that same strength in darker stories where fascinating circumstances are explored; I just prefer to explore it in more lighthearted circumstances most of the time.

To clarify, I really am pretty tolerant of what writers decide to do with characters. It's only when there's repeated, major character changes (that don't fit with unique circumstances) that I decide to leave it. It's just that between that and the overwhelming amount of angsty stories in this fanbase, there's not always a whole lot for me to read. That's why I don't comment much. I always try to be positive but helpful when I do comment, though, because I know you all work incredibly hard on stories. I appreciate it, and I'd write them myself if I had the time/creativity.

I also apologize if I got this thread a little off-topic. I was a little hesitant to post because I was afraid of offending someone by mentioning characterization/tone, but ultimately, OP did ask. I just thought I'd mention it because I know I'm not the only one with these opinions out there.

That being said, the best way to get more readers is to continuously try to improve. Improve on technical writing. Improve on complexity. Improve on characterization. Improve on character arcs. Or maybe, if you write darker stories, try to get some humor in there somewhere to reach a broader audience. If you write lighter stories, try to add some drama here and there to spice things up a bit. It never hurts to broaden your horizons, even if you do prefer one style over another.
_________________________
"I really do believe that we're all put here on this earth, or whatever planet we're put on, to do better than we think we can. To be kind, helpful, generous, and forgiving."
"You know something, CK? She's a class act."
"I've always thought so."

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#273475 - 01/25/17 06:29 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Morgana Offline
Kerth

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 2471
Loc: Somewhere on the East Coast
I have for the most part been on hiatus, but have been reading these comments and I have to say we are all molded by our life experiences and many are painful, but we can learn from them.

Twenty years ago I moved back home to care for my mother who was diagnosed with Lung Cancer. My father had died only three years before. Hearing this news was devastating to me and the echos of those days are still with me.

The doctor gave her six months and said she needed to start chemotherapy immediately. She told him that estimate would be beaten, my sister was getting married in a few months and she was not missing the party. Still, Mom elected not to delay the therapy. Despite the pain and bouts of nausea she planned my sister's wedding (a rather large affair, much bigger than mine) and continued working. Two weeks before the wedding she stopped taking Chemo so she could enjoy being with family and friends. The last photo of us together was taken at that wedding and must of the attendants were surprised that Mom was ill.

During the worst of it all she kept her humor, enjoyed the young children at the Day Care Center where she volunteered and gave encouragement to older patients at the Doctor's office where she worked.

When she cried, it was in the privacy of her home.

Never, would she allow the disease which was destroying her body day by day to destroy her spirit. She went to her 40th Class Reunion which was to be her last. But she danced and laughed with old friends as if she would be there for the 50th. She lived for eighteen months after the conversation with her doctor.

A few years ago one of those youngsters she helped to finish business school told my sister if it had not been for her he would not have finished school and might have ended up on the streets. That is a far better legacy than some can point to.

If I can live my life with the same grace as my mother experienced her last days that would make her smile.

It is in my parents' and younger brother's memory that I make sure my stories are fun and encouraging. If there is a little darkness it is not there for long.

Quote:
That being said, the best way to get more readers is to continuously try to improve. Improve on technical writing. Improve on complexity. Improve on characterization. Improve on character arcs. Or maybe, if you write darker stories, try to get some humor in there somewhere to reach a broader audience. If you write lighter stories, try to add some drama here and there to spice things up a bit. It never hurts to broaden your horizons, even if you do prefer one style over another.


I think what AnnieL says makes perfect sense.



Edited by Morgana (01/25/17 06:50 PM)
_________________________
Morgana

A writer's job is to think of new plots and create characters who stay with you long after the final page has been read. If that mission is accomplished than we have done what we set out to do, which is to entertain and hopefully educate.

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#273476 - 01/25/17 06:39 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Morgana, it sounds like your mother was a classy lady. I'm sorry for your losses.

- Lynn

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#274342 - 03/21/17 09:52 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
mrsMxyzptlk Offline
Columnist

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 537
Loc: US
I've been on hiatus from these boards for a year and a half or so. I got burned out on the L&C stories, I think. I was following a few in-progress stories here that either fizzled out and weren't being updated or seemed to be never-ending. I think a lot of the stories ran together in my head, too. I ended up spending my fan fiction time reading Harry Potter stories.

One of the good (and bad) things about Harry Potter is there are so many authors that there is a never-ending stream of new stories. One of the downsides of reading over on fanfiction.net is that there is a huge variation in the quality of the stories that I just don't see here. Over there, there are some really great stories, but they're hard to find. Too many of the posted stories are awful. I've read some that have really good plots but have so many grammar and diction problems that they're nearly unreadable, but I'm hooked enough on the storyline that I want to see how it ends, so I slog through. Other stories have weird grammar problems or odd word choice that make me think that they're written by non-native speakers. While I have no problem in general with people writing in a non-native language, it's really difficult to read a story where I have to struggle to figure out what they're trying to say. There is also rampant mis-use of commas, complete disregard for proper sentence structure, apparent hatred of spell-check, and near-constant mixup of words, to the point that I always have to stop and figure out whether they really meant what they typed (especially with "weary" / "wary" and "definitely" / "defiantly" ).

Altogether, I have read so much Harry Potter lately that I've burned out and need to branch out to other genres again, and I've read so much drivel (with the occasional diamond in the rough) that I wanted to come back here where people don't abuse the English language so horribly. One of the things I like about the boards here is that people are willing to correct other people's grammar and ask for clarifications on confusing passages, and the writers, in turn, seem willing to take constructive criticism seriously.

(Sorry about the rant. I try to hold in my negativity, but sometimes it just needs an outlet. :-/ )

So, basically, I'm back here after spending lots of time over at fanfiction.net.

I don't comment on every story that I read. The reasons vary. Sometimes it's because I'm reading on my phone, and it's hard to type very much on a phone keyboard. Sometimes I'll go back to a story later on the computer and comment, though. Sometimes I like a story, but I can't think of anything to say other than, "Nice story!" I guess even that is worthwhile, but I feel compelled to say something about what I liked about a story, and if I can't think of something specific, or if any way I word things just sounds stupid to me, I tend to erase my comment and not post it.

Other times I just don't like a story, but I can't think of a nice way to say so. Lately, I've been reading completed stories that I've missed while I was gone, and I'm not sure whether there's much point in giving constructive criticism on a story that's been finished for months and is probably already archived. I think I'm more likely to give criticism or grammar/punctuation-type comments on an in-progress story because I know that the writer is currently working on it. Also, I'm not sure how much an author wants to hear, "I just don't like your writing style in this story," which has been the case for two or three that I've read this week.

Angst vs. Fluff
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a really angsty story. I do better if they're fairly short-to-medium length, though. I've found that my mood goes wonky and it's easier to be depressed if I'm in the middle of a long story where nothing goes right for the characters. I don't tend to like stories where the characters get no reprieve. In some stories, as soon as the characters have dealt with one problem, or even while they're still dealing with it, more problems rain down on them and they can't keep their head above water. It just gets to be too much and stresses me out. I also get frustrated, as others have mentioned in this thread, when the entire plot would be solved if Lois and Clark would just sit down and talk for 5 minutes but they go for chapter after chapter getting deeper into trouble/relationship problems.

I generally like fluffy stories, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and then they just seem cheesy. I think they just feel cheesy when I'm feeling particularly cynical.
_________________________
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then...he shoots fire from the skies, and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him." -Batman (in Superman/Batman #3 by Jeph Loeb)

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#274343 - 03/21/17 10:07 PM Re: Comments [Re: mrsMxyzptlk]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk
I've been on hiatus from these boards for a year and a half or so. I got burned out on the L&C stories, I think. I was following a few in-progress stories here that either fizzled out and weren't being updated or seemed to be never-ending. I think a lot of the stories ran together in my head, too. I ended up spending my fan fiction time reading Harry Potter stories.

One of the good (and bad) things about Harry Potter is there are so many authors that there is a never-ending stream of new stories. One of the downsides of reading over on fanfiction.net is that there is a huge variation in the quality of the stories that I just don't see here. Over there, there are some really great stories, but they're hard to find. Too many of the posted stories are awful. I've read some that have really good plots but have so many grammar and diction problems that they're nearly unreadable, but I'm hooked enough on the storyline that I want to see how it ends, so I slog through. Other stories have weird grammar problems or odd word choice that make me think that they're written by non-native speakers. While I have no problem in general with people writing in a non-native language, it's really difficult to read a story where I have to struggle to figure out what they're trying to say. There is also rampant mis-use of commas, complete disregard for proper sentence structure, apparent hatred of spell-check, and near-constant mixup of words, to the point that I always have to stop and figure out whether they really meant what they typed (especially with "weary" / "wary" and "definitely" / "defiantly" ).

Altogether, I have read so much Harry Potter lately that I've burned out and need to branch out to other genres again, and I've read so much drivel (with the occasional diamond in the rough) that I wanted to come back here where people don't abuse the English language so horribly. One of the things I like about the boards here is that people are willing to correct other people's grammar and ask for clarifications on confusing passages, and the writers, in turn, seem willing to take constructive criticism seriously.

(Sorry about the rant. I try to hold in my negativity, but sometimes it just needs an outlet. :-/ )

So, basically, I'm back here after spending lots of time over at fanfiction.net.

I don't comment on every story that I read. The reasons vary. Sometimes it's because I'm reading on my phone, and it's hard to type very much on a phone keyboard. Sometimes I'll go back to a story later on the computer and comment, though. Sometimes I like a story, but I can't think of anything to say other than, "Nice story!" I guess even that is worthwhile, but I feel compelled to say something about what I liked about a story, and if I can't think of something specific, or if any way I word things just sounds stupid to me, I tend to erase my comment and not post it.

Other times I just don't like a story, but I can't think of a nice way to say so. Lately, I've been reading completed stories that I've missed while I was gone, and I'm not sure whether there's much point in giving constructive criticism on a story that's been finished for months and is probably already archived. I think I'm more likely to give criticism or grammar/punctuation-type comments on an in-progress story because I know that the writer is currently working on it. Also, I'm not sure how much an author wants to hear, "I just don't like your writing style in this story," which has been the case for two or three that I've read this week.

Angst vs. Fluff
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a really angsty story. I do better if they're fairly short-to-medium length, though. I've found that my mood goes wonky and it's easier to be depressed if I'm in the middle of a long story where nothing goes right for the characters. I don't tend to like stories where the characters get no reprieve. In some stories, as soon as the characters have dealt with one problem, or even while they're still dealing with it, more problems rain down on them and they can't keep their head above water. It just gets to be too much and stresses me out. I also get frustrated, as others have mentioned in this thread, when the entire plot would be solved if Lois and Clark would just sit down and talk for 5 minutes but they go for chapter after chapter getting deeper into trouble/relationship problems.

I generally like fluffy stories, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and then they just seem cheesy. I think they just feel cheesy when I'm feeling particularly cynical.


1) Welcome back!
2) You got burned out on unfinished stories? Yeah that would drive me nuts too.
3) I've noticed your comments all over the boards. I love the FDK good and bad. Enjoy the banter. I love a good debate
4) Any FDK is good as far as I'm concerned. It's how we grow as an author. If there are mistakes point them out via PM if you don't want to comment them. A lot of the time you can't see your own mistakes because you're too close to it.
5) I'm with you on the whole communication issues. I can't stand those plots. I've actually skimmed through chapter(s) plural to get to the part where they finally talk because I already got sucked in. :P It's wrong I know, but seriously? These two are WRITERS that work in a profession that requires communication day in and day out. How gullible do you think we are?
6) Too much angst can be detrimental to a story if it's not done right. I try to weave my plot bunnies in with plenty of humor and waffy moments. I hope none of my older stories were ones you hated. If so let me know frown
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
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#274346 - 03/22/17 04:22 AM Re: Comments [Re: mrsMxyzptlk]
Millefeuilles Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 08/06/16
Posts: 61
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk
I've been on hiatus from these boards for a year and a half or so. I got burned out on the L&C stories, I think. I was following a few in-progress stories here that either fizzled out and weren't being updated or seemed to be never-ending. I think a lot of the stories ran together in my head, too. I ended up spending my fan fiction time reading Harry Potter stories.

One of the good (and bad) things about Harry Potter is there are so many authors that there is a never-ending stream of new stories. One of the downsides of reading over on fanfiction.net is that there is a huge variation in the quality of the stories that I just don't see here. Over there, there are some really great stories, but they're hard to find. Too many of the posted stories are awful. I've read some that have really good plots but have so many grammar and diction problems that they're nearly unreadable, but I'm hooked enough on the storyline that I want to see how it ends, so I slog through. Other stories have weird grammar problems or odd word choice that make me think that they're written by non-native speakers. While I have no problem in general with people writing in a non-native language, it's really difficult to read a story where I have to struggle to figure out what they're trying to say. There is also rampant mis-use of commas, complete disregard for proper sentence structure, apparent hatred of spell-check, and near-constant mixup of words, to the point that I always have to stop and figure out whether they really meant what they typed (especially with "weary" / "wary" and "definitely" / "defiantly" ).

Altogether, I have read so much Harry Potter lately that I've burned out and need to branch out to other genres again, and I've read so much drivel (with the occasional diamond in the rough) that I wanted to come back here where people don't abuse the English language so horribly. One of the things I like about the boards here is that people are willing to correct other people's grammar and ask for clarifications on confusing passages, and the writers, in turn, seem willing to take constructive criticism seriously.

(Sorry about the rant. I try to hold in my negativity, but sometimes it just needs an outlet. :-/ )

So, basically, I'm back here after spending lots of time over at fanfiction.net.

I don't comment on every story that I read. The reasons vary. Sometimes it's because I'm reading on my phone, and it's hard to type very much on a phone keyboard. Sometimes I'll go back to a story later on the computer and comment, though. Sometimes I like a story, but I can't think of anything to say other than, "Nice story!" I guess even that is worthwhile, but I feel compelled to say something about what I liked about a story, and if I can't think of something specific, or if any way I word things just sounds stupid to me, I tend to erase my comment and not post it.

Other times I just don't like a story, but I can't think of a nice way to say so. Lately, I've been reading completed stories that I've missed while I was gone, and I'm not sure whether there's much point in giving constructive criticism on a story that's been finished for months and is probably already archived. I think I'm more likely to give criticism or grammar/punctuation-type comments on an in-progress story because I know that the writer is currently working on it. Also, I'm not sure how much an author wants to hear, "I just don't like your writing style in this story," which has been the case for two or three that I've read this week.

Angst vs. Fluff
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a really angsty story. I do better if they're fairly short-to-medium length, though. I've found that my mood goes wonky and it's easier to be depressed if I'm in the middle of a long story where nothing goes right for the characters. I don't tend to like stories where the characters get no reprieve. In some stories, as soon as the characters have dealt with one problem, or even while they're still dealing with it, more problems rain down on them and they can't keep their head above water. It just gets to be too much and stresses me out. I also get frustrated, as others have mentioned in this thread, when the entire plot would be solved if Lois and Clark would just sit down and talk for 5 minutes but they go for chapter after chapter getting deeper into trouble/relationship problems.

I generally like fluffy stories, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and then they just seem cheesy. I think they just feel cheesy when I'm feeling particularly cynical.

Hi, Mrs Mxyzptlk!
Having just read the above message, I feel quite flattered that you stopped and commented on my story!!
Regarding criticism, I'm all for it! As a writer (and a foreigner), I welcome all corrections, comments and such things that may help me improve my writing!

I'm a very green author: I wrote a couple of fics in another fandom (in English, with Beta help) and I'm currently writing an historical novel in my native language. So, any remarks on dialogues, plots, narrative devices and plain stupid mistakes are VERY welcome: one learns the craft doing it!
On an aside, I'm quite overwhelmed by the kind and indulgent welcome you guys gave me on these boards. THANK you again for that: it has bolstered my confidence, so I'll keep on writing! (I first thought I was overconfident trying it, as there are so many FANTASTIC writers on this fandom...) But, please, don't spare me because I'm not a native English speaker!


I read the Archives for years before one nudge from one of the authors I wrote FDK to directed me there....
I try to comment as often as I can, but RL is quite busy on my end, and I have had some health trouble which prevented me to do so as often as I wished to. I'm still reading some loooong completed stories, and I'll write some deserved FDK asap. (Folc4evernday, this also means your awesome fics!)

I fully agree with what you've said about spelling, punctuation etc problems being a deterrent to read some fic on other boards/sites. This is why Beta proofing and GE revisions are SO important to this fandom. Hats off to all the Betas and GEs of the L&C fandom who do stellar work for our enjoyment!

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#274347 - 03/22/17 04:43 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Hi Mrs. Mxy.,

Welcome back. Good to see you here again. smile

I'm reading and posting less in general these days mainly because I am overwhelmed at work and don't have much free time, but I do try at least to lurk semi-frequently.

I agree with a lot of your views concerning depressing and stories and ones that hinge on a lack of communication between protagonists.

FWIW, I love getting feedback on old stories; it's great to know that they are still being read. Even a short bit of feedback such as "Well done" will bring a smile (oft much-needed these days) to my face. I, too, appreciate constructive criticism; it gives me the opportunity to learn to improve my writing.

Joy,
Lynn

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#274358 - 03/22/17 05:57 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
mrsMxyzptlk Offline
Columnist

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 537
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Millefeuilles
But, please, don't spare me because I'm not a native English speaker!

I would have had no idea that you weren't a native speaker if you hadn't mentioned it. Kudos. I only speak one and a half languages, and that half is being generous. I studied Spanish in school, but I haven't practiced in years, and I can barely speak it. I certainly couldn't write a coherent story in Spanish. Maybe if it was all about going to the library and eating dinner...

Originally Posted By: folc4evernaday
1) Welcome back!

Originally Posted By: Lynn S. M.
Hi Mrs. Mxy.,
Welcome back. Good to see you here again. smile

Thanks! It's good to be back! smile I love how welcoming and friendly everyone is here.

Originally Posted By: Lynn S. M.
FWIW, I love getting feedback on old stories; it's great to know that they are still being read. Even a short bit of feedback such as "Well done" will bring a smile (oft much-needed these days) to my face. I, too, appreciate constructive criticism; it gives me the opportunity to learn to improve my writing.

But what about constructive criticism on old stories? Is it useful if the writer isn't working on it anymore and has no intention of, for example, correcting a punctuation mistake?

Originally Posted By: folc4evernaday
I hope none of my older stories were ones you hated. If so let me know frown

I fear that I've given the impression that all the stories I haven't commented on are ones I hated. And I feel like "hated" is a strong word. Here, if I don't like a story, it's usually more that the story just isn't my style. If you like, I can go back and see which of your stories I read recently and give a thumbsup or frown .
_________________________
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then...he shoots fire from the skies, and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him." -Batman (in Superman/Batman #3 by Jeph Loeb)

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#274363 - 03/22/17 06:47 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Quote:
But what about constructive criticism on old stories? Is it useful if the writer isn't working on it anymore and has no intention of, for example, correcting a punctuation mistake?


I would say so. The author could still go back to correct it in case anyone else decides to read the story. Perhaps some authors wouldn't do so, but some probably would.

Joy,
Lynn

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#274366 - 03/22/17 07:38 PM Re: Comments [Re: Lynn S. M.]
mrsMxyzptlk Offline
Columnist

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 537
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Lynn S. M.
I would say so. The author could still go back to correct it in case anyone else decides to read the story. Perhaps some authors wouldn't do so, but some probably would.

Joy,
Lynn

I'll keep that in mind.
_________________________
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then...he shoots fire from the skies, and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him." -Batman (in Superman/Batman #3 by Jeph Loeb)

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