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#273391 - 01/16/17 05:48 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3461
Loc: Delaware
Terry,

I am so sorry. I can't even begin to fathom the pain you and your whole family must have endured. As challenging as living with my son can be at times, living without him in the way you have to live without your eldest would be infinitely worst.

Thank you for your kind words. I am no hero, though... just a survivor. Had I chosen to adopt my son with full knowledge of his special needs, I would have been a hero; but my son is biologically my own child. I didn't volunteer for the lifestyle I live. (I had realized, of course, that with motherhood would come changes, but I never dreamt of what they would prove to be.) I'm just trying to make the best of the situation I am in, or, to bring this back to L&C, I'm just trying to be the "best blind man I can be." My son needs that from me; he's down one parent, so he needs his remaining one to step up her game.

In any event, I hadn't meant my post to be a downer. I had only detailed my situation as a way to illustrate that not everyone is in an emotional space where they can appreciate angsty stories.

Thank you for your prayers on our behalf; they are much appreciated. It is only by God's grace that I have developed the strength and patience necessary to grow into the mother that my son needs me to be.

Joy,
Lynn

p.s., Your wife is blessed that you chose to stay.

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#273395 - 01/16/17 11:10 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Deadly Chakram Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 4623
Loc: Connecticut
Lynn and Terry -

There are no adequate words for how sorry I am for all the terrible things you've had to endure. My prayers are with you both.
_________________________
Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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#273411 - 01/19/17 07:28 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3461
Loc: Delaware
Thanks, DC. As I mentioned to Terry above, all prayers on my son's and my behalf are *much* appreciated.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea, though -- My son was a very sweet boy and, when he isn't being an emotional teenager, he is usually a very sweet young man. It's just that his "moments" tend to be a lot more physical than those of a typically-developing teen. Most parents would be upset if their teenage kids yelled, "I hate you" at them; however, I suspect that those parents haven't considered what the alternative might be if their kids couldn't yell such hurtful things.

Here's hoping that my son -- like most teens -- will eventually outgrow this phase...

Joy,
Lynn

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#273412 - 01/19/17 09:48 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
CLeuch Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 01/24/16
Posts: 78
Loc: Iowa
Here's the issue with angst, as I see it: whereas the type of conflict that drives a plot in a typical story arises organically, angst tends to arise by the characters acting like idiots. How many plots could be resolved by having one of the characters talk to the other one and sort things out, instead of assuming things? The behaviors that the characters engage in to create the angst also generally puts them out of character, or at least out of show cannon (which I will point out again, is different than what has become fanfic cannon). Yes, there were some angsty moments on the show...and at the time it aired, I hated it in the show, too. I remember at the end of season two, I swore that I would stop watching the show if Clark didn't tell Lois in the first episode of season three. We know what happened, and to this day WHALTTA is my favorite episode of the show because it finally meant an end to all that.

As others mentioned, what made the show great was the subtle humor and the romantic tension. It didn't take itself too seriously, which is why I'm not big on the epic, angst-ridden stories. The show was fun, even when it got heavy, and the fic should be fun, too. But...different strokes for different folks. I've actually started reading Superman comics lately because those have been fun (and I justify it by saying that my 5-year-old likes to read them with me, which is true. We bond over Superman smile ).

-CIndy
_________________________
"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

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#273414 - 01/20/17 07:15 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Terry Leatherwood Offline
Kerth

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 2436
Loc: Southwest USA
Thanks to all those who have offered heartfelt sympathy and kind words, especially Lynn. Every parent I've been around goes through pain and suffering because of his or her child or children. Our other two sons didn't get along at all when they were younger. My wife went home one day to find them in the front yard, ready to go after each other, one with a baseball bat and one with a golf club. Just knowing how seriously they fought took a lot out of both of us. And I know that many others have faced equally difficult situations, even if they weren't quite so immediately dangerous.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled comments:

Mike M. wrote that he was certain that Lois would not have revealed Superman's real identity had she learned it at any time in the show's run, nor would she even have considered it. I don't buy that at all. As I mentioned before, drama and angst (however one defines that word) are the agents by which the characters grow and learn. Sometimes I think that people who don't like to read heavy drama are ones who have suffered great pain in their own lives and don't want to relive it. That's totally cool - I get that, I really do. And some just don't want reality to intrude on their escape strategy. That's also cool.

But if I'm honest with myself, the times when I've learned the most about myself and how I should live are the times when I've been under the most stress. When my family was going through all that pain a quarter-century ago, I thought about doing some dishonest things to relieve the financial pressure on us, despite my younger self's braggadocios proclamation that "I'd never do that for any reason!" I learned, though, that I could be tempted - even if I never did those things.

Season 1 Lois would indeed be tempted to print Superman's secret identity. She'd also be tempted to use his abilities in her investigations even if Clark thought it would be wrong. She might not have actually done those things, but to insist that those thoughts wouldn't even cross her mind denies her basic humanity and her opportunity to grow and mature as a person. Season 3 Lois wouldn't seriously consider it, and probably not even during mid-Season 2, because she'd become a different person by then.

How did this happen? Because of her own drama and angst pressing on her, reshaping her, squeezing out the impurities in her character and allowing the gold and silver to dominate.

I do not, nor will I ever, write a story just to insult someone or to prove that hey, I can torture these characters all I want! Not happening. I will, however, continue to put them in pressure situations which will force them to make choices which will make them grow and learn and improve as people. I think that was one of the messages of the show: Even with super-powers, you still have things to learn and ways to improve yourself.
_________________________
It was said among the Khalid of the western deserts that a woman should be a hyena in the kitchen, a giraffe in the garden, and a pelican in the bathroom, although nobody now knew what this was supposed to mean.

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#273415 - 01/20/17 09:12 AM Re: Comments [Re: Terry Leatherwood]
Mike M Offline

Features Writer

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 937
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Terry,

I don't remember writing that but who knows I don't remember a lot of things I did last week...

I agree with your assessment of Lois' state of mind throughout the series. I also agree that she might have been tempted to write the story early in Season 1 but probably less likely by the end. In the two stories I have looked at that covered that topic the most notable OOC thing I saw was Lois never approaching Clark/Superman for a comment or explanation on the story before publishing it. Same for Perry. Not very professional all in all.

My only point in response to your post was that I don't appreciate specific story lines and if I don't appreciate them I don't read them. I also found your comment at the end a bit insulting as you seemed to hint that if we don't like heavy angst/drama that our literary pallets are not sufficiently broadened. As I said I find that a bit insulting but you are entitled to your opinion. I have read many types of stories and find specific things I like and specific things I don't like. There are of course exceptions to everything. For instance I have re-read your story "She's" three or four times. Your expression of how each party felt (even Lois via video) was extremely spot on and I believe totally in character. The fact that it was short is/was also a positive as I find I can deal with angst in short bursts but get tired of it as it moves into double digit chapters. I also enjoyed "24 Hours" by Wendy as while angsty as all get out it the story was Lois and Clark together working on dealing with the possibility of Lois dying due to being poisoned. Rape stories I just don't read any more, personal choice.

I apologize if I came across like I was trying to tell anyone what they should or should not write as I will never do that. I am merely expressing what I will and will not read and back to the original subject what I will or will not FDK on any longer.

Mike





Edited by Mike M (01/20/17 09:15 AM)
_________________________
Create all the happiness you are able to create.
Remove all the misery you are able to remove.

Jeremy Bentham


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#273421 - 01/21/17 10:59 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
scifiJoan Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 1216
Loc: out in the cornfields
For fan fiction writing, there is something to be said about knowing your audience. As many have stated, most of us enjoy "Lois & Clark" because it is a lighter, positive show (compared to "Arrow" or "Gotham"). Personally, I lean towards reading and writing angst or darker stories. If I post those types of stories on this board, I'm aware that I won't have as many readers.

Terry brings up a good point about out of character behavior. That unique circumstances can bring this out and that in itself can produce a great story. Out of character behavior isn't necessarily set in stone. We all would agree Clark would never be cruel to some one but all bets are off if he's been exposed to some variant of Kryptonite. To me, that's part of the fun, what would bring about such behavior? To others, it's not as appealing.

As a writer, it's frustrating if people respond to your story, "That's out of character" and immediately drop it. If they'd continued to read, they might've found out why this was happening. I think that is part of what Terry is saying.

I used to beta for a girl who wrote CSI fanfiction. She focused on a minor character and also created an original character (a blatant Mary Sue) as the love interest. Both of those were automatic turn offs for me. But she was a friend so I helped her. Her stories were very well written, great use of language and descriptions. Good pacing and excellent plot. I didn't care for the Country western song lyrics showcased but it suited the stories. However, she presented the CSI crew totally out of character - they all hung out together, went bowling and square dancing, got ice cream, etc... They were all best buddies. This would be the equivalent of Lois, Clark, Perry and Jimmy routinely going to strip clubs and getting wasted every weekend. Not like the show. Not even remotely resembling the show. Like I said, her stories were good but she didn't get much of a response because that wasn't what most CSI fans liked.

Ultimately, people read what they want to read. And that's okay.

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#273426 - 01/21/17 03:00 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Female Hawk Offline
Kerth

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 2122
Loc: Nalangil, Australia
I read this thread a couple of days ago, and I have been mulling over it ever since.

The writer-reader relationship is delicately balanced in fanfic. One aspect I love about fanfic is that no money is involved. The writer freely gives his/her stories for anyone to read. The reader 'pays' by becoming involved in the story the writer is creating and giving comments.

I understand the disappointment when a reader commits to a story only to have to accept that the story will not be finished. However, the writer has already committed far more time and emotional involvement to the story than the reader has and is probably just as disappointed that the story wasn't finished. The difference, of course, is that the reader has very little control over getting the story finished. The writer might not have a lot of control, either, but has more than the reader.

Commenting on stories, even with the risk of them not being finished, is not a waste of time if you value fanfiction in general and this fandom in particular.

IMO if a significant portion of readers decide to comment only once a story is finished, the fanfiction part of this (or any) fandom will die quickly.

If, as a reader, you don't like something about the stories being written and posted (too much angst, not enough angst, characters not acting in character, too short, too long, too light, not light enough etc), why not write a story you would enjoy reading? Reading but not commenting contributes nothing to this community. Having strict and inflexible 'demands' that mean ditching most stories after a few paragraphs doesn't contribute much either.

The fact that we have more comments in this thread than many (all?) stories being posted is concerning, and possibly says something about the current health of LnC fanfic. Ultimately, the community will only survive if enough people care enough to make a contribution as a writer or a commenting reader or both.

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#273427 - 01/21/17 05:24 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
AnnieL Offline
Blogger

Registered: 12/29/15
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: Mike M
I don't remember writing that but who knows I don't remember a lot of things I did last week...

Actually, I think it might have been my comment Terry was referring to, and I appreciate your insight even if I have a different take.

Originally Posted By: scifiJoan
As a writer, it's frustrating if people respond to your story, "That's out of character" and immediately drop it. If they'd continued to read, they might've found out why this was happening. I think that is part of what Terry is saying.


And perhaps I should have been more clear on that. I definitely agree that it depends on the situation, and I'm all about unique circumstances. I always try to read or at least skim through most of the story, but a lot of times I can tell within the first few-several chapters whether it's something I'll like or not. It just depends.

Take a storyline similar to, say, the third season finale or TPVLL/DLW where Lois and Clark are torn apart enough to feel that anguish but ultimately solve the issue as a team and become stronger both individually and as a couple. Their relationship grew stronger and they weren't apart for very long. It was ultimately hopeful and humorous and uplifting. You can find that same strength in darker stories where fascinating circumstances are explored; I just prefer to explore it in more lighthearted circumstances most of the time.

To clarify, I really am pretty tolerant of what writers decide to do with characters. It's only when there's repeated, major character changes (that don't fit with unique circumstances) that I decide to leave it. It's just that between that and the overwhelming amount of angsty stories in this fanbase, there's not always a whole lot for me to read. That's why I don't comment much. I always try to be positive but helpful when I do comment, though, because I know you all work incredibly hard on stories. I appreciate it, and I'd write them myself if I had the time/creativity.

I also apologize if I got this thread a little off-topic. I was a little hesitant to post because I was afraid of offending someone by mentioning characterization/tone, but ultimately, OP did ask. I just thought I'd mention it because I know I'm not the only one with these opinions out there.

That being said, the best way to get more readers is to continuously try to improve. Improve on technical writing. Improve on complexity. Improve on characterization. Improve on character arcs. Or maybe, if you write darker stories, try to get some humor in there somewhere to reach a broader audience. If you write lighter stories, try to add some drama here and there to spice things up a bit. It never hurts to broaden your horizons, even if you do prefer one style over another.
_________________________
"I really do believe that we're all put here on this earth, or whatever planet we're put on, to do better than we think we can. To be kind, helpful, generous, and forgiving."
"You know something, CK? She's a class act."
"I've always thought so."

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#273475 - 01/25/17 06:29 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Morgana Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 2603
Loc: Somewhere on the East Coast
I have for the most part been on hiatus, but have been reading these comments and I have to say we are all molded by our life experiences and many are painful, but we can learn from them.

Twenty years ago I moved back home to care for my mother who was diagnosed with Lung Cancer. My father had died only three years before. Hearing this news was devastating to me and the echos of those days are still with me.

The doctor gave her six months and said she needed to start chemotherapy immediately. She told him that estimate would be beaten, my sister was getting married in a few months and she was not missing the party. Still, Mom elected not to delay the therapy. Despite the pain and bouts of nausea she planned my sister's wedding (a rather large affair, much bigger than mine) and continued working. Two weeks before the wedding she stopped taking Chemo so she could enjoy being with family and friends. The last photo of us together was taken at that wedding and must of the attendants were surprised that Mom was ill.

During the worst of it all she kept her humor, enjoyed the young children at the Day Care Center where she volunteered and gave encouragement to older patients at the Doctor's office where she worked.

When she cried, it was in the privacy of her home.

Never, would she allow the disease which was destroying her body day by day to destroy her spirit. She went to her 40th Class Reunion which was to be her last. But she danced and laughed with old friends as if she would be there for the 50th. She lived for eighteen months after the conversation with her doctor.

A few years ago one of those youngsters she helped to finish business school told my sister if it had not been for her he would not have finished school and might have ended up on the streets. That is a far better legacy than some can point to.

If I can live my life with the same grace as my mother experienced her last days that would make her smile.

It is in my parents' and younger brother's memory that I make sure my stories are fun and encouraging. If there is a little darkness it is not there for long.

Quote:
That being said, the best way to get more readers is to continuously try to improve. Improve on technical writing. Improve on complexity. Improve on characterization. Improve on character arcs. Or maybe, if you write darker stories, try to get some humor in there somewhere to reach a broader audience. If you write lighter stories, try to add some drama here and there to spice things up a bit. It never hurts to broaden your horizons, even if you do prefer one style over another.


I think what AnnieL says makes perfect sense.



Edited by Morgana (01/25/17 06:50 PM)
_________________________
Morgana

A writer's job is to think of new plots and create characters who stay with you long after the final page has been read. If that mission is accomplished than we have done what we set out to do, which is to entertain and hopefully educate.

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#273476 - 01/25/17 06:39 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3461
Loc: Delaware
Morgana, it sounds like your mother was a classy lady. I'm sorry for your losses.

- Lynn

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#274342 - 03/21/17 09:52 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
mrsMxyzptlk Offline
Columnist

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 539
Loc: US
I've been on hiatus from these boards for a year and a half or so. I got burned out on the L&C stories, I think. I was following a few in-progress stories here that either fizzled out and weren't being updated or seemed to be never-ending. I think a lot of the stories ran together in my head, too. I ended up spending my fan fiction time reading Harry Potter stories.

One of the good (and bad) things about Harry Potter is there are so many authors that there is a never-ending stream of new stories. One of the downsides of reading over on fanfiction.net is that there is a huge variation in the quality of the stories that I just don't see here. Over there, there are some really great stories, but they're hard to find. Too many of the posted stories are awful. I've read some that have really good plots but have so many grammar and diction problems that they're nearly unreadable, but I'm hooked enough on the storyline that I want to see how it ends, so I slog through. Other stories have weird grammar problems or odd word choice that make me think that they're written by non-native speakers. While I have no problem in general with people writing in a non-native language, it's really difficult to read a story where I have to struggle to figure out what they're trying to say. There is also rampant mis-use of commas, complete disregard for proper sentence structure, apparent hatred of spell-check, and near-constant mixup of words, to the point that I always have to stop and figure out whether they really meant what they typed (especially with "weary" / "wary" and "definitely" / "defiantly" ).

Altogether, I have read so much Harry Potter lately that I've burned out and need to branch out to other genres again, and I've read so much drivel (with the occasional diamond in the rough) that I wanted to come back here where people don't abuse the English language so horribly. One of the things I like about the boards here is that people are willing to correct other people's grammar and ask for clarifications on confusing passages, and the writers, in turn, seem willing to take constructive criticism seriously.

(Sorry about the rant. I try to hold in my negativity, but sometimes it just needs an outlet. :-/ )

So, basically, I'm back here after spending lots of time over at fanfiction.net.

I don't comment on every story that I read. The reasons vary. Sometimes it's because I'm reading on my phone, and it's hard to type very much on a phone keyboard. Sometimes I'll go back to a story later on the computer and comment, though. Sometimes I like a story, but I can't think of anything to say other than, "Nice story!" I guess even that is worthwhile, but I feel compelled to say something about what I liked about a story, and if I can't think of something specific, or if any way I word things just sounds stupid to me, I tend to erase my comment and not post it.

Other times I just don't like a story, but I can't think of a nice way to say so. Lately, I've been reading completed stories that I've missed while I was gone, and I'm not sure whether there's much point in giving constructive criticism on a story that's been finished for months and is probably already archived. I think I'm more likely to give criticism or grammar/punctuation-type comments on an in-progress story because I know that the writer is currently working on it. Also, I'm not sure how much an author wants to hear, "I just don't like your writing style in this story," which has been the case for two or three that I've read this week.

Angst vs. Fluff
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a really angsty story. I do better if they're fairly short-to-medium length, though. I've found that my mood goes wonky and it's easier to be depressed if I'm in the middle of a long story where nothing goes right for the characters. I don't tend to like stories where the characters get no reprieve. In some stories, as soon as the characters have dealt with one problem, or even while they're still dealing with it, more problems rain down on them and they can't keep their head above water. It just gets to be too much and stresses me out. I also get frustrated, as others have mentioned in this thread, when the entire plot would be solved if Lois and Clark would just sit down and talk for 5 minutes but they go for chapter after chapter getting deeper into trouble/relationship problems.

I generally like fluffy stories, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and then they just seem cheesy. I think they just feel cheesy when I'm feeling particularly cynical.
_________________________
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then...he shoots fire from the skies, and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him." -Batman (in Superman/Batman #3 by Jeph Loeb)

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#274343 - 03/21/17 10:07 PM Re: Comments [Re: mrsMxyzptlk]
folc4evernaday Offline
Kerth

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 2005
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk
I've been on hiatus from these boards for a year and a half or so. I got burned out on the L&C stories, I think. I was following a few in-progress stories here that either fizzled out and weren't being updated or seemed to be never-ending. I think a lot of the stories ran together in my head, too. I ended up spending my fan fiction time reading Harry Potter stories.

One of the good (and bad) things about Harry Potter is there are so many authors that there is a never-ending stream of new stories. One of the downsides of reading over on fanfiction.net is that there is a huge variation in the quality of the stories that I just don't see here. Over there, there are some really great stories, but they're hard to find. Too many of the posted stories are awful. I've read some that have really good plots but have so many grammar and diction problems that they're nearly unreadable, but I'm hooked enough on the storyline that I want to see how it ends, so I slog through. Other stories have weird grammar problems or odd word choice that make me think that they're written by non-native speakers. While I have no problem in general with people writing in a non-native language, it's really difficult to read a story where I have to struggle to figure out what they're trying to say. There is also rampant mis-use of commas, complete disregard for proper sentence structure, apparent hatred of spell-check, and near-constant mixup of words, to the point that I always have to stop and figure out whether they really meant what they typed (especially with "weary" / "wary" and "definitely" / "defiantly" ).

Altogether, I have read so much Harry Potter lately that I've burned out and need to branch out to other genres again, and I've read so much drivel (with the occasional diamond in the rough) that I wanted to come back here where people don't abuse the English language so horribly. One of the things I like about the boards here is that people are willing to correct other people's grammar and ask for clarifications on confusing passages, and the writers, in turn, seem willing to take constructive criticism seriously.

(Sorry about the rant. I try to hold in my negativity, but sometimes it just needs an outlet. :-/ )

So, basically, I'm back here after spending lots of time over at fanfiction.net.

I don't comment on every story that I read. The reasons vary. Sometimes it's because I'm reading on my phone, and it's hard to type very much on a phone keyboard. Sometimes I'll go back to a story later on the computer and comment, though. Sometimes I like a story, but I can't think of anything to say other than, "Nice story!" I guess even that is worthwhile, but I feel compelled to say something about what I liked about a story, and if I can't think of something specific, or if any way I word things just sounds stupid to me, I tend to erase my comment and not post it.

Other times I just don't like a story, but I can't think of a nice way to say so. Lately, I've been reading completed stories that I've missed while I was gone, and I'm not sure whether there's much point in giving constructive criticism on a story that's been finished for months and is probably already archived. I think I'm more likely to give criticism or grammar/punctuation-type comments on an in-progress story because I know that the writer is currently working on it. Also, I'm not sure how much an author wants to hear, "I just don't like your writing style in this story," which has been the case for two or three that I've read this week.

Angst vs. Fluff
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a really angsty story. I do better if they're fairly short-to-medium length, though. I've found that my mood goes wonky and it's easier to be depressed if I'm in the middle of a long story where nothing goes right for the characters. I don't tend to like stories where the characters get no reprieve. In some stories, as soon as the characters have dealt with one problem, or even while they're still dealing with it, more problems rain down on them and they can't keep their head above water. It just gets to be too much and stresses me out. I also get frustrated, as others have mentioned in this thread, when the entire plot would be solved if Lois and Clark would just sit down and talk for 5 minutes but they go for chapter after chapter getting deeper into trouble/relationship problems.

I generally like fluffy stories, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and then they just seem cheesy. I think they just feel cheesy when I'm feeling particularly cynical.


1) Welcome back!
2) You got burned out on unfinished stories? Yeah that would drive me nuts too.
3) I've noticed your comments all over the boards. I love the FDK good and bad. Enjoy the banter. I love a good debate
4) Any FDK is good as far as I'm concerned. It's how we grow as an author. If there are mistakes point them out via PM if you don't want to comment them. A lot of the time you can't see your own mistakes because you're too close to it.
5) I'm with you on the whole communication issues. I can't stand those plots. I've actually skimmed through chapter(s) plural to get to the part where they finally talk because I already got sucked in. :P It's wrong I know, but seriously? These two are WRITERS that work in a profession that requires communication day in and day out. How gullible do you think we are?
6) Too much angst can be detrimental to a story if it's not done right. I try to weave my plot bunnies in with plenty of humor and waffy moments. I hope none of my older stories were ones you hated. If so let me know frown
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
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#274346 - 03/22/17 04:22 AM Re: Comments [Re: mrsMxyzptlk]
Millefeuilles Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 08/06/16
Posts: 62
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: mrsMxyzptlk
I've been on hiatus from these boards for a year and a half or so. I got burned out on the L&C stories, I think. I was following a few in-progress stories here that either fizzled out and weren't being updated or seemed to be never-ending. I think a lot of the stories ran together in my head, too. I ended up spending my fan fiction time reading Harry Potter stories.

One of the good (and bad) things about Harry Potter is there are so many authors that there is a never-ending stream of new stories. One of the downsides of reading over on fanfiction.net is that there is a huge variation in the quality of the stories that I just don't see here. Over there, there are some really great stories, but they're hard to find. Too many of the posted stories are awful. I've read some that have really good plots but have so many grammar and diction problems that they're nearly unreadable, but I'm hooked enough on the storyline that I want to see how it ends, so I slog through. Other stories have weird grammar problems or odd word choice that make me think that they're written by non-native speakers. While I have no problem in general with people writing in a non-native language, it's really difficult to read a story where I have to struggle to figure out what they're trying to say. There is also rampant mis-use of commas, complete disregard for proper sentence structure, apparent hatred of spell-check, and near-constant mixup of words, to the point that I always have to stop and figure out whether they really meant what they typed (especially with "weary" / "wary" and "definitely" / "defiantly" ).

Altogether, I have read so much Harry Potter lately that I've burned out and need to branch out to other genres again, and I've read so much drivel (with the occasional diamond in the rough) that I wanted to come back here where people don't abuse the English language so horribly. One of the things I like about the boards here is that people are willing to correct other people's grammar and ask for clarifications on confusing passages, and the writers, in turn, seem willing to take constructive criticism seriously.

(Sorry about the rant. I try to hold in my negativity, but sometimes it just needs an outlet. :-/ )

So, basically, I'm back here after spending lots of time over at fanfiction.net.

I don't comment on every story that I read. The reasons vary. Sometimes it's because I'm reading on my phone, and it's hard to type very much on a phone keyboard. Sometimes I'll go back to a story later on the computer and comment, though. Sometimes I like a story, but I can't think of anything to say other than, "Nice story!" I guess even that is worthwhile, but I feel compelled to say something about what I liked about a story, and if I can't think of something specific, or if any way I word things just sounds stupid to me, I tend to erase my comment and not post it.

Other times I just don't like a story, but I can't think of a nice way to say so. Lately, I've been reading completed stories that I've missed while I was gone, and I'm not sure whether there's much point in giving constructive criticism on a story that's been finished for months and is probably already archived. I think I'm more likely to give criticism or grammar/punctuation-type comments on an in-progress story because I know that the writer is currently working on it. Also, I'm not sure how much an author wants to hear, "I just don't like your writing style in this story," which has been the case for two or three that I've read this week.

Angst vs. Fluff
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a really angsty story. I do better if they're fairly short-to-medium length, though. I've found that my mood goes wonky and it's easier to be depressed if I'm in the middle of a long story where nothing goes right for the characters. I don't tend to like stories where the characters get no reprieve. In some stories, as soon as the characters have dealt with one problem, or even while they're still dealing with it, more problems rain down on them and they can't keep their head above water. It just gets to be too much and stresses me out. I also get frustrated, as others have mentioned in this thread, when the entire plot would be solved if Lois and Clark would just sit down and talk for 5 minutes but they go for chapter after chapter getting deeper into trouble/relationship problems.

I generally like fluffy stories, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and then they just seem cheesy. I think they just feel cheesy when I'm feeling particularly cynical.

Hi, Mrs Mxyzptlk!
Having just read the above message, I feel quite flattered that you stopped and commented on my story!!
Regarding criticism, I'm all for it! As a writer (and a foreigner), I welcome all corrections, comments and such things that may help me improve my writing!

I'm a very green author: I wrote a couple of fics in another fandom (in English, with Beta help) and I'm currently writing an historical novel in my native language. So, any remarks on dialogues, plots, narrative devices and plain stupid mistakes are VERY welcome: one learns the craft doing it!
On an aside, I'm quite overwhelmed by the kind and indulgent welcome you guys gave me on these boards. THANK you again for that: it has bolstered my confidence, so I'll keep on writing! (I first thought I was overconfident trying it, as there are so many FANTASTIC writers on this fandom...) But, please, don't spare me because I'm not a native English speaker!


I read the Archives for years before one nudge from one of the authors I wrote FDK to directed me there....
I try to comment as often as I can, but RL is quite busy on my end, and I have had some health trouble which prevented me to do so as often as I wished to. I'm still reading some loooong completed stories, and I'll write some deserved FDK asap. (Folc4evernday, this also means your awesome fics!)

I fully agree with what you've said about spelling, punctuation etc problems being a deterrent to read some fic on other boards/sites. This is why Beta proofing and GE revisions are SO important to this fandom. Hats off to all the Betas and GEs of the L&C fandom who do stellar work for our enjoyment!

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#274347 - 03/22/17 04:43 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3461
Loc: Delaware
Hi Mrs. Mxy.,

Welcome back. Good to see you here again. smile

I'm reading and posting less in general these days mainly because I am overwhelmed at work and don't have much free time, but I do try at least to lurk semi-frequently.

I agree with a lot of your views concerning depressing and stories and ones that hinge on a lack of communication between protagonists.

FWIW, I love getting feedback on old stories; it's great to know that they are still being read. Even a short bit of feedback such as "Well done" will bring a smile (oft much-needed these days) to my face. I, too, appreciate constructive criticism; it gives me the opportunity to learn to improve my writing.

Joy,
Lynn

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#274358 - 03/22/17 05:57 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
mrsMxyzptlk Offline
Columnist

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 539
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Millefeuilles
But, please, don't spare me because I'm not a native English speaker!

I would have had no idea that you weren't a native speaker if you hadn't mentioned it. Kudos. I only speak one and a half languages, and that half is being generous. I studied Spanish in school, but I haven't practiced in years, and I can barely speak it. I certainly couldn't write a coherent story in Spanish. Maybe if it was all about going to the library and eating dinner...

Originally Posted By: folc4evernaday
1) Welcome back!

Originally Posted By: Lynn S. M.
Hi Mrs. Mxy.,
Welcome back. Good to see you here again. smile

Thanks! It's good to be back! smile I love how welcoming and friendly everyone is here.

Originally Posted By: Lynn S. M.
FWIW, I love getting feedback on old stories; it's great to know that they are still being read. Even a short bit of feedback such as "Well done" will bring a smile (oft much-needed these days) to my face. I, too, appreciate constructive criticism; it gives me the opportunity to learn to improve my writing.

But what about constructive criticism on old stories? Is it useful if the writer isn't working on it anymore and has no intention of, for example, correcting a punctuation mistake?

Originally Posted By: folc4evernaday
I hope none of my older stories were ones you hated. If so let me know frown

I fear that I've given the impression that all the stories I haven't commented on are ones I hated. And I feel like "hated" is a strong word. Here, if I don't like a story, it's usually more that the story just isn't my style. If you like, I can go back and see which of your stories I read recently and give a thumbsup or frown .
_________________________
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then...he shoots fire from the skies, and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him." -Batman (in Superman/Batman #3 by Jeph Loeb)

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#274363 - 03/22/17 06:47 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3461
Loc: Delaware
Quote:
But what about constructive criticism on old stories? Is it useful if the writer isn't working on it anymore and has no intention of, for example, correcting a punctuation mistake?


I would say so. The author could still go back to correct it in case anyone else decides to read the story. Perhaps some authors wouldn't do so, but some probably would.

Joy,
Lynn

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#274366 - 03/22/17 07:38 PM Re: Comments [Re: Lynn S. M.]
mrsMxyzptlk Offline
Columnist

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 539
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Lynn S. M.
I would say so. The author could still go back to correct it in case anyone else decides to read the story. Perhaps some authors wouldn't do so, but some probably would.

Joy,
Lynn

I'll keep that in mind.
_________________________
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then...he shoots fire from the skies, and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him." -Batman (in Superman/Batman #3 by Jeph Loeb)

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#275846 - 06/19/17 06:03 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
NostalgiaKick Offline
Columnist

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 584
Loc: Toowoomba, Australia
Ok, I'm bumping this up.

A lot of us said that we'd try and improve in the number of comments we leave, but nothing has improved.

In fact, it's gotten worse.

It is now not uncommon to post a chapter and get one or two comments if you're lucky. It's incredibly dispiriting for the writers, and it makes me sad to see our community becoming so apathetic.I know we all lead busy lives, but our fandom is dying. If we don't do something NOW, we will lose it. And I'm not willing to let that happen.


Edited by NostalgiaKick (06/19/17 06:04 PM)

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#275847 - 06/19/17 06:35 PM Re: Comments - Dean and Teri Video Update Status [Re: Morgana]
folc4evernaday Offline
Kerth

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 2005
Loc: Birmingham, AL
^^^^^^^WSS

Okay, I'm just going to chime in here with this.

NK's story of Unmasked is original and out of the box and had she been posting this back in 2009 it would be pleathered with comments and FDK. Unfortunately, it's not 2009. It's 2017. We live in a world where social media is constant we're commenting and liking and sharing... but that doesn't seem to cross over to the boards anymore which really makes me sad. frown

This past weekend Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher reunited together for fans and made all FOLCS dreams come true. DON'T let the fandom die. The stars of the show still LOVE it anad WANT a REBOOT! Come on!


Give the writers a thumbsup every now and then even if it's just to say hey I liked that....or Why'd you do that? I've recently gone WEEKS and SEVERAL CHAPTERS without FDK. I get more traction on FF.net right now than I do on the boards and that's unheard of.


PS) I'm almost done cleaning the video of the stealth recording...(Thanks, to Nostalgiakick for her stealthiness) Will post soon wave
_________________________
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