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#273299 - 01/10/17 05:00 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
CLeuch Offline
Freelance Reporter

Registered: 01/24/16
Posts: 56
Loc: Iowa
Actually I meant I wish Lois and Clark would wind up on Netflix. And Dean has been on Supergirl this season, in the last episode, I think (or the one before that)...the "Cyborg Superman" (who isn't Cyborg Superman, but Cyborg Hank Henshaw) episode.

And the acrimony regarding constructive criticism happened well before 2007. I want to say 2005? I don't want to dig up the old threads...suffice to say, it's not a misunderstanding. And it doesn't matter now anyway - everyone involved is gone now. Just, you know, wanted to let people know that I value their writing but I won't leave comments and it's not personal.
_________________________
"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

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#273303 - 01/10/17 10:00 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
chickberry Offline
Hack from Nowheresville

Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 102
Loc: Las Vegas
I've been really flaky in the boards the past year or so and still have an almost finished story sitting on my HD but RL has just gotten in the way.

My 6yo has adhd and since we moved last year out of LV, his new school hasn't had the right environment to keep him busy enough to where it's not a problem. He was reading better half way through kindergarten at his private school in LV, because the public schools are atrocious, than his private school here in 1st grade. I now work from home, my jobs still in LV, but as soon as he gets home I have to take or work with him on things that help him focus and work out his energy. Doesn't leave much time for writing.

We're now looking at moving again to find schools to better fit his needs so we're working on finish a huge remodel on our house. We gutted the basement to the studs and so that takes up the rest of my time.

I hope to finish up my story, which only needs 1.5 chapters, some time this year and I have 2 more long stories, both alt world, I'd like to commit to, but we'll have to see how RL goes. Right now I enjoy reading everyone's stories. Keeps me motivated to someday finish mine.

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#273308 - 01/11/17 11:02 AM Re: Comments [Re: CLeuch]
KenJ Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 3791
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Hi Cindy,

Originally Posted By: CLeuch
I see a lot of things going on:
Way back when I entered the fandom, we had (Zoomway's) boards for fic and comments, but we also had a thriving IRC channel, and the people whose fic you read and who did the commenting were there to chat with and hang out with every night. You were friends...mostly. I used to comment on WIP's back then. But as time went by, a couple things happened:
- Those who made the fic boards made it clear that any type of constructive comments were not welcome, because it might hurt someone's feelings. It kinda made the comments thread a safe space before that was a thing. I have no issue with encouraging authors, but I also want to read good fic, and don't see any problem with offering some constructive feedback if it's in good faith. I lost that argument, so...I don't comment on stories anymore.
- IRC became outdated. I haven't tried to logon to the channel in probably 9 years, mostly because I would need to find a program that would get me there. I feel disconnected from the community now.
- Life happens. The people who were into the fandom are mostly gone now, no though some of us old-times come back upon occasion, I image that those of us who were college kids back then have families and lack the time to devote to all this.

I agree to some extent that the show has been gone long enough that it's getting forgotten, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there still is a fandom that cares. That's a testament to the show.

Personally, I still read fic, but only completed stories. Currently, I'm waiting for the Kerth list to come out to give me some reading material to dig into. To the writers out there: keep writing. And take it on faith that we're still reading, even if it's not immediate. If you believe in your story, you should have all the motivation you need.

-Cindy


I don't know about anyone else, but I do NOT look for pats on the back. I want negative as well as positive comments. Take the gloves off. If I'm doing something you don't like or don't understand - LET ME KNOW!

How can I improve as an author if all I get are positive comments. I have some sharp corners that need to be removed.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, all of my stories are complete before post number one goes up so there will be no abandoned stories coming from me. That doesn't mean that corrections cannot be made to the story before it hits the archive.

If you have a legitimate beef with what I write, let me know. If I can't explain it to your satisfaction, I may have to change it before sending it to the archive. That is what the board is for.

All of the readers are being conscripted by us authors into doing beta for us.


Edited by KenJ (01/11/17 11:11 AM)
_________________________
Herb replied, “My boy, I never say … impossible.” "Lois and Clarks"

My stories can be found here

kj

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#273310 - 01/11/17 11:14 AM Re: Comments [Re: KenJ]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: KenJ
Hi Cindy,

Originally Posted By: CLeuch
I see a lot of things going on:
Way back when I entered the fandom, we had (Zoomway's) boards for fic and comments, but we also had a thriving IRC channel, and the people whose fic you read and who did the commenting were there to chat with and hang out with every night. You were friends...mostly. I used to comment on WIP's back then. But as time went by, a couple things happened:
- Those who made the fic boards made it clear that any type of constructive comments were not welcome, because it might hurt someone's feelings. It kinda made the comments thread a safe space before that was a thing. I have no issue with encouraging authors, but I also want to read good fic, and don't see any problem with offering some constructive feedback if it's in good faith. I lost that argument, so...I don't comment on stories anymore.
- IRC became outdated. I haven't tried to logon to the channel in probably 9 years, mostly because I would need to find a program that would get me there. I feel disconnected from the community now.
- Life happens. The people who were into the fandom are mostly gone now, no though some of us old-times come back upon occasion, I image that those of us who were college kids back then have families and lack the time to devote to all this.

I agree to some extent that the show has been gone long enough that it's getting forgotten, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there still is a fandom that cares. That's a testament to the show.

Personally, I still read fic, but only completed stories. Currently, I'm waiting for the Kerth list to come out to give me some reading material to dig into. To the writers out there: keep writing. And take it on faith that we're still reading, even if it's not immediate. If you believe in your story, you should have all the motivation you need.

-Cindy


I don't know about anyone else, but I do NOT look for pats on the back. I want negative as well as positive comments. Take the gloves off. If I'm doing something you don't like or don't understand - LET ME KNOW!

How can I improve as an author if all I get are positive comments. I have some sharp corners that need to be removed.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, all of my stories are complete before post number one goes up so there will be no abandoned stories coming from me. That doesn't mean that corrections cannot be made to the story before it hits the archive.

If you have a legitimate beef with what I write, let me know. If I can't explain it to your satisfaction, I may have to change it before sending it to the archive. That is what the board is for.

All of the readers are being conscripted by us authors into doing beta for us.


^WHS

notworthy hail

I'm with Ken. I love FDK no matter what. If something doesn't make sense...tell me why.

I personally think the banter between the reader and the author is what can help make the story even better. I write a good bit of the story ahead of time before posting. I'll take a break then come back to it and edit again before posting. Sometimes where I originally planned on taking a story is not where it ends up because of the FDK I get. I think its all a growing / learning process for all of us. Writers need readers and readers need writers.

As for the comments about the show just being too old....I refuse to believe that. My daughter is 11 years old...in Fifth grade and every one of her friends has heard of and seen the show and LOVES it. We have a new generation of LnC fans ready to take over the fandom. :P
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
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#273315 - 01/11/17 01:49 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Queen of the Capes Offline
Kerth

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wouldn't YOU like to know?
I also dropped off in both reading and writing this past December, mostly due to getting completely steamrolled by work-related stuff. (Also, having to rely on my phone for internet when it no longer connects to my computer doesn't help.)

I'm also a bit guilty of posting incomplete fics and then having everyone suffer when my muse suddenly hits a wall. I'm sorry. FDK can certainly grease the wheels, but sometimes the only real solution is better outlining beforehand. frown. (Note: Lois Lane's Travels isn't dead, just...camatose.)

I also welcome criticism, as long as it's more useful than "LOL U Suk". wink It can hurt a bit, but silence is worse, because silence means apathy and no readers: I failed to hold the audience, and without FDK, I can't figure out why.

ETA: If I may ramble a bit, years before I became a folc, I belonged to a Batman fan-site called GothamCityUSA. One of my fondest memories is of some critiquing I got for my first entry into a CYOA fanfic contest: It was awful, everything happened randomly, there was no plot and no point. I took this information to heart, making "plot" and "point" my watchwords for my next submission. The result? That second submission won "Hands Down" and now there's a used-in-production animation cell hanging on my wall. cool


Edited by Queen of the Capes (01/11/17 02:04 PM)
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Dating Sims for girls. Because Bishies! laugh

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#273316 - 01/11/17 03:17 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
NostalgiaKick Offline
Beat Reporter

Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 477
Loc: Toowoomba, Australia
Originally Posted By: Queen of the Capes
I also welcome criticism, as long as it's more useful than "LOL U Suk". It can hurt a bit, but silence is worse, because silence means apathy and no readers: I failed to hold the audience, and without FDK, I can't figure out why.


You hit the nail on the head there, Queen of the Capes. I think that's particularly important if you're a new writer or even one that's trying something different. If you don't know what the problem is, how are you supposed to correct it? I don't mind being told that what I've written is somehow lacking, as long as it's constructive.

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#273319 - 01/11/17 04:56 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
LMA Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 1404
Loc: USA
I really truely hope that the show is not being forgotten...

IMO, the fact that the storyline is rooted in 'Superman' is/will continue to be a key to its relevance. The Christopher Reeves movies, the comics, the Superman shows prior to and after 'Lois & Clark'--our show is part of the history of the superhero--and it always, into the future, will continue to be. And the fact that 'Lois & Clark' was in so many ways different from other Superman incarnations can only add to the benefits.

Ironically, for me, 'Superman' really had no barring on me watching the show. I saw ads for the Pilot, and in those ads I saw chemistry, banter, wit. When I watched the show I saw even more love notworthy. I very much watch a show, a movie, read a book, for the relationship between the characters. I want to be romanced grin. And frankly, still to this day, nothing has ever come remotely close to the chemistry that is 'Lois & Clark'. The reason that 20-some-odd-years-later I'm still so enamored with this show is the relationship and the growth of the characters because of their relationship. It's amazing--and that attachment I've developed (like others have), I really believe, is part of what has kept fans coming back for more.

Like I've said many times, these boards--and the Archive--have truely meant the world to me. If I ever have time for myself, I'm here, hands down. I love that the show, these characters, are kept alive here. And I really, really thank you all for each of your parts in that (writing/beta'ing/FDK'ing/reading clap notworthy ).

I'm here for the long haul--may it be years (and many more years) to come hyper
Laura


Edited by LMA (01/11/17 08:03 PM)
_________________________
"Where's Clark?" "Right here."

...two simple sentences--with so much meaning.

~Lois and Clark in 'House of Luthor'~

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#273321 - 01/11/17 05:24 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
VirginiaR Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 9396
Loc: USA
/hangs head/ I admit I haven't been on the boards much lately (since starting my new job in August). I try to catch up when I can finally have peace and quiet in my house (10pm +), but I'm usually exhausted by that point that I'm falling behind both on my FDK and my writing. I'm sorry for falling behind on Unmasked. blush It *is* on my to-read list, when I can scrape time together. My apologies.

My daughter has been assigned a bunch of research reports and papers this year that half the time I can't get on my computer because she's on it. (Hence that 10pm+ time.) 6th grade is a lot tougher than when I took it. I didn't have 4 hours of homework every night. That's for sure!

I'm still working on Wrong Clark (currently working on 235, I believe). Yeah. I know this story got away from and me and around the world and back again. I've also been distracted from it by a couple (or 3) short stories, lately. I've vowed not to post any more long (or short) stories without completing them first (not including WC), which is why I've only posted the one. My muse also went on an unscheduled vacation for a while this fall and didn't leave a forwarding address. I've only just gotten her back, but she's still acting a bit lackadaisical.

Supergirl (S1) is on Netflix's Instant list. Although, I haven't had a chance to see more than the pilot. I've been catching up on Arrow, Flash, Gotham, GoT, and other shows. Not enough time, too many shows to watch.

Cuidadora, I'm sorry about your recent misfortunes. Good luck and I hope 2017 is a much better year for you!
_________________________
VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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#273322 - 01/11/17 06:59 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
scifiJoan Offline
Top Banana

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 1172
Loc: out in the cornfields
I've really enjoyed this group but for the past few years, my heart hasn't been into it. There have been too many life changes - kids in high school, all the activities (with traveling teams and constant driving), and now the transition to college, along with my own job changes. I want to be excited about fandom. I miss writing fan fiction. But it's just not happening right now, not for any fandom I'm involved with. I'm hoping once my youngest graduates high school that I'll find my way back.

Sounds like a lot of us are dealing with life issues...

Joan

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#273323 - 01/11/17 11:09 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Deadly Chakram Online   happy
Pulitzer

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 4487
Loc: Connecticut
I've fallen off the boards a bit too, sadly.

1. Warcraft came out with an expansion in August. I got sucked back into the game pretty severely, as it was the best one out of the last couple of expansions. That took me (nightly) until about Thanksgiving.

2. Everyone was sick for pretty much all of November. First it was the girls, then me, then my husband, then me again. I was usually heading to bed early or at least too out of it to read or write much.

3. The holidays happened.

4. My kids stopped napping Father's Day weekend. It's been great - I can do more without having to worry about getting home in time for naps. But I miss those couple hours of reading and writing time.

5. My muse has hit a wall. I have too many projects in various stages of completion. It's just hard to concentrate on fics right now. Even reading them. I know a huge part of that hiatus my muse is on is from the quietness on the boards. It's hard to be motivated when the feedback isn't there.

6. I'm a bit burnt out. After rewatching the show for the first time in years back in 2010 or 2011, I've been steadily reading and writing. It's not that I don't have an interest anymore, I'm just...I don't know. Tired. Not of reading and writing. Just...having a hard time getting a handle on the things I want to write. Also, my husband is back to doing (voluntary, thank God!) overtime. So twice a week it's just me with the kids (now 3, almost 3.5 years) from before they get up until they are going to bed. And every Saturday morning until noon. I'm just physically exhausted most nights. (In a good way, but still tired!)


As for the feedback stuff:

I love feedback of any kind, so long as it's constructive. It's depressing to get no feedback at all. But it's also not helpful (and this is not a problem here, but on fanfiction.net, which I also post my stories on) to get "Good story" or "I didn't like it." Particularly when it's the only feedback on a, say, 20 part story.

I don't take offense to negative feedback. I think questions and concerns can better my writing, and, in fact, I have, on a number of occasions, taken those negative criticisms and altered my story prior to sending it to the archive. It's always a great thing to know that something needs clarification or doesn't sound in character enough, so that I can fix it and learn from my mistakes.

I'll admit, straight up, I don't read unfinished stories, with the very rare exception. A Part 1/? is my signal to stay away until I see it change to Part X/37, for example. I've gotten burnt too many times (again, on fanfiction.net) where the author just never finishes the story or takes months to post each update. Likewise, I am never comfortable posting a story until I am completely done writing, or within the last chapter or two, and even that's rare. I prefer to be 100% done with a story before posting anything.

All of this being said, I'm hoping to find my inspiration again soon and become much more active. That and maybe rewatch the series again to aid my muse in new fic ideas.
_________________________
Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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#273349 - 01/13/17 02:01 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Morgana Offline
Kerth

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 2471
Loc: Somewhere on the East Coast
WOW. shock

Completely bowled over by to sheer amount of feedback my comment has garnered. I think if writers received half this much FDK this msbs would be hopping! party

We all are facing many challenges as to why we are not writing either stories or comments all of them make a lot of sense:

Cuidadora

Quote:
My county was hit hard by Hurricane Matthew in October.


MikeM, and others (myself included)

Quote:
I like Cuidadora don't care much for the high angst stuff that seems to be the norm these days


Darth Michael

Quote:
I'm having the boards as my start page in the browser, so I'm here daily but due to an odd intersection of RL and time.


Right there with you Michael! Since I joined the msbs in April, 2010 time has always been an issue, between work, family, knitting and just plain running around the only time I can write is between the hours of 3:30 and 5:30 in the morning. After that, it time to hit the gym, walk the dog and get ready for work. It is one of the reasons why there are so few stories from me and why from conception to posting it takes at least a year.

Think I'm kidding? Ask UltraWoman, KenJ or MikeM they can tell you how long it takes to receive a chapter!

Commenting, on the other hand is much easier. Its pleasurable to tell an author how well he or she's story is! I can remember the first time seeing Anti-Kryptonite's story A Father's Kryptonite or Deadly Chakram's amazing Contractually Bound. Both stories are on my hard drive and many is the time when in an airport I have turned to read them. They just keep getting better each time! KenJ's Matchmaker series still makes me smile.

Writing feedback for these stories and countless others has been a joy. I hope to read more in the future.

I prefer getting both negative and positive feedback, as long as it is not harsh criticism for its own sake. I have experienced that in the past and it is not a picnic. It is sad that some writers on other websites have been so overwhelmed by something like that that they give up entirely. This is unfortunate, because they are ignoring a precious talent and we as readers lose out on a wonderful reading experience.

All in all it has been a joy working with FoLC's and after a brief hiatus I'm looking forward to seeing more imaginative and fun stories about our favorite reporting duo!
_________________________
Morgana

A writer's job is to think of new plots and create characters who stay with you long after the final page has been read. If that mission is accomplished than we have done what we set out to do, which is to entertain and hopefully educate.

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#273357 - 01/14/17 08:23 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Terry Leatherwood Offline
Kerth

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 2393
Loc: Southwest USA
Some FoLCs don't like angst? Makes me wonder how some of us got through some of the really emotional episodes in the series. TOGOM comes to mind, as do any of the ones where Lois' deep desire for children - natural or adopted - is thwarted by biology or her reputation. When Clark "died" from that Kryptonian virus, Lois' pain was very true-to-life. And who can forget Clark's heart agony when he threw the engagement ring into space, then flew out to fetch it just because hope yet lived in him?

If you read a book on writing fiction, the author will tell you very quickly that you must have some drama in your tale. Without that pressure, your characters cannot grow and mature, just as a diamond will remain a lump of carbon without tons of pressure over time pressing on it. The best comedies of both the silver and small screens contain elements of drama, if only to make the laughter more natural.

A person's true character is not formed by pressure or tension, but the person's character is revealed by that pressure and tension. Clark is Superman - but not because he has powers. He is Superman because he is Clark, who is a good man with a strong moral center. How many times have we read (or written) that if one such as Lex Luthor had Superman's powers it would be a complete disaster for the entire world?

No one can live his or her life without some drama. It's rarely fun, but prevailing against the pressure and tension is something we all must do else we crumble and fall away. And one of the ways people learn to deal with angst is to watch others do so successfully. If Clark and Lois can succeed under diamond-inducing pressure, maybe we can learn something from them and apply that something to our own lives.

I do not mean to belittle light, comedic, or purely romantic tales. I do not insist that a trip to these boards means an automatic buzzkill. If you check my list of stories on the archive (here), you'll find a few which meet the low-angst threshold of nearly everyone who reads them. There is room for all kinds of stories. I only suggest that we all give the truly dramatic tales a fair chance to stand on their own and please your reading palate.
_________________________
After weeks at sea, Captain Fetherstonhaugh and his hardy crew had at last crossed the halfway point, and he mused that the closest dry land now lay in the Americas, assuming of course that it was not raining there.

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#273359 - 01/14/17 09:24 AM Re: Comments [Re: Terry Leatherwood]
Mike M Offline

Features Writer

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 911
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Terry,

I actually have typed responses to this thread a couple of times and deleted them without posting. I feel like I have to reply to this. First I never said I did not care for angst, I said I did not care for stories heavy with angst. Where the angst is the reason for the story and permeates the story throughout. Ones where there is 19 chapters of angst followed by an epilogue that either magically fixes the angst or in so many of your stories just ends.

You mentioned the heavy angst episodes of the series and most of those I have watched once and never have felt the need to go back rewatch. As Laura said I got hooked on the series due to its banter, chemistry, and wit. Remove those elements and I go meh. So many of the recent stories have little (some have none) of those elements and so I don't find them compelling to read.

I look at the Best Overall Story Kerth winners for the past 10 years and I read DebbieG's Fictitious Persons, Female Hawk's Trusting Me, Trusting You, and Sue S.'s Honeymoon in Vegas. Of those Fictitious Persons was my favorite by far and it was not without its angsty moments but the angst was not the underlying purpose of the story. Now I understand that not everyone will agree with me but as I am so fond of saying: I cannot tell you what to write, but I can tell me what to read.

As for reading palates, at 69 heading towards 70 my palate is pretty well set and I read for entertainment and if something does not entertain me I quit reading it. If torturing the characters is entertaining to you well that is your decision.

I often wonder how many readers have felt the way Cindy and I do but just left rather than voicing those views. I guess we will never know as they probably will not be back.

Mike
_________________________
We cannot cure the world of sorrows, but we can choose to live in joy. - Joseph Campbell

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#273361 - 01/14/17 10:25 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
AnnieL Offline
Blogger

Registered: 12/29/15
Posts: 31
I almost never read fanfic, not because I don't like it, but because the majority of stories (that I've read) are either out of character or completely out of tone with the show.
Terry, you have a good point. Stories need some drama. The show definitely had serious, emotional moments, but it did not dwell on them. There was always hope, even when there wasn't, and the show only focused enough to get a feel of the reality in the episode. When Clark almost died, they let us see the family's grief; but as soon as it was possible, they let us see their hope. We did not see Lois sobbing at her own place or Martha and Jonathan soberly waiting to hear news. We saw the next morning, and then came the call that Clark was awake.

For me, I'm just picky about characterization. If the first thing Lois does when finding out Clark's secret is think how great of a pulitzer it would make (even if she would never write it), I'll be turned off almost immediately. I don't care if it's in season one or later, or how many trust issues Lois has. She would never do that. Clark would never have fallen in love with someone as horrible as that. However, I realize some people have different opinions on this, and I respect that.
On the contrary, Clark running off after Lois rejects him in BatP and ceasing to help her is so completely out of character I can't even understand where the writer is coming from. Maybe they just wanted to explore another option-what would happen if Clark did this or that? And that's fine, except that Clark didn't do this or that, since we know how he reacts; but more importantly, a lot of times Clark would never do this or that. And that bugs me, because usually it's something that degrades the character.

No one's going to get a character perfectly, and I'm actually pretty good at ignoring things. But sometimes it does get to be a bit much, though that's just my opinion. smile

I'll read heavy angst if it's well-written. If Lois and Clark only get stronger through it, if there are hopeful moments in the darkness, and if they fix the situation together, I think it can make a great story. But if we had a circumstance like TAGD, where Clark is faced with a truly hopeless situation (if Clark can never come back from NK, or if he can't find another way to save his friends and the city at the same time), it's doesn't fit in well with the tone of the show or of Superman in general. Superman's all about hope, all about there being another way. I would prefer, in that situation, to read something more hopeful.

By all means, though, keep writing! I've seen some great writing out there, even if I'm not always the right audience for it!
_________________________
"I really do believe that we're all put here on this earth, or whatever planet we're put on, to do better than we think we can. To be kind, helpful, generous, and forgiving."
"You know something, CK? She's a class act."
"I've always thought so."

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#273362 - 01/14/17 03:01 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
cuidadora Online   happy
Beat Reporter

Registered: 07/26/14
Posts: 349
Loc: East Coast USA
Since I brought up the angst issue, I feel like I should reply again. My issue has been more that I look to fiction as a way to relax from RL, and I need to be in the right frame of mind for angst. In thinking about this issue, I've realized that my personal preference is to decide whether or not to read those stories after they're finished, and will likely do more of that in the future. Just my own preference, and at my age I don't see myself changing.

I agree with Mike and AnnieL. I got interested in the show L&C because of the banter and lighthearted moments. Basically I saw the pilot as a romantic comedy. No, the lighthearted moments don't have to be the entire story. The angst in the show rarely went beyond a single episode, although there are some notable exceptions. When the angst, which I feel is darker than drama, is the primary focus of a story and the lighthearted moments aren't there for relief, it's challenging for me to come back to each chapter and feel it's spiraling into more darkness. I like to feel that what I read is something I can control. When life is full of drama, it can be essential for emotional and physical health for a few minutes to find a relief. And not everyone finds that in angst. Nor does everyone find it in comedy, which can be challenging to write. Laughter does reduce the stress hormone level, which lowers blood pressure, pulse rate and has other healthy side effects.

And I think every writer should write what they want. That doesn't mean I will read every story, nor do I expect every reader to read and enjoy mine.


Edited by cuidadora (01/14/17 03:03 PM)
Edit Reason: typo correction
_________________________
Cuidadora

"Honey, we don't care if you were a Russian or a Martian... You were ours. That's all we knew and we weren't giving you to anybody." ~ Martha in Strange Visitor

"Boy, I must be in trouble. The cavalry's here." Clark in Chip Off the Old Clark


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#273363 - 01/14/17 05:52 PM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Lynn S. M. Offline
Pulitzer

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 3377
Loc: Delaware
Terry,

Count me in the "not liking angst" group. I tend to avoid the more angst-laden episodes of L&C, and with rare exception, I avoid all angst-heavy fiction, both in and out of fandom. This avoidance is a deliberate choice. I will be the first to admit that I come to L&C to escape the angst in my real life. To give you a smattering of what I am talking about:

- My son has both physical and developmental disabilities that manifested literally from his first breath of life. By the time he was three days old, I had been told that he had diffuse brain lesions, and that he might never walk or talk. Shortly thereafter, he failed to thrive. Had he been born seven years earlier, he wouldn't have survived through his first year of life. As it was, he spent his first summer in the hospital while the doctors tried to figure out why he was projectile vomiting multiple times a day. He ceased eating and drinking altogether and was only kept alive by feeding tubes -- first one dropped down his nose, and then eventually one that was surgically implanted. Meal times were torture times for the first several years of his life.

- Our son's disabilities got to be too much for my then-husband, who walked out of our lives and, aside from paying a small fraction of the child support that he owes, has chosen to have nothing to do with us. (I don't even know where he is living any more.)

- My son was subsequently diagnosed with autism -- severe enough that now, as a teenager, he still has almost no expressive language, still needs help with basic hygiene (e.g., washing and drying hands), and still needs the level of supervision one typically gives to a two year old.

- As is not uncommon among nonverbal, hormone-riddled teenagers, my son sometimes lashes out in the only way he can -- physically. He has bruised me, his fingernails have dug into my skin until I bled, and he has kicked holes in his bedroom walls. (Fortunately, the medicine he is currently on has helped him regain his emotional equilibrium while not turning him into a zombie.)

- I have almost no support system. I can count on one hand the number of living relatives I have, and I am my son's youngest relative. My other family members live in another state, and have various health issues which preclude them from assisting me. Because of my son's special needs, I can't find a qualified babysitter, and because of his autism-related behavioural issues, I have difficulty even going to a grocery store with him. I can do fun things outside of the house exactly two weekends a year: The two weekends that he goes to an overnight camp for children with autism. The rest of the time, I am either at work or at home. I spend so much time being either "Mom" or "Dr. M." that I have almost forgotten who "Lynn" is.

Early on in my son's life, I was overwhelmed emotionally, and realized that I was seriously at risk of developing depression. I knew that my son needed me to be well enough to take care of him, and that depression would make that extremely difficult. At that point, I decided that, for his sake, I would do everything I could to try to be emotionally healthy. Among other things I did (e.g., deliberately seeking out silver linings), I promised myself that what little entertainment I would have time to indulge in would all be upbeat.

I freely admit that L&C is pure escapism for me. When I come to the MB, I want to read something that will leave me in a better mood than I was in when I came to it.

So to get back to your original post... Is there a place for angsty fiction? Absolutely. But just not for me, or at least not until such time as I have less angst in my real life.

Although I am sure that the specifics of the list I just gave above are unique to me, I imagine that I am not alone here in coming to the boards to find a brief respite from the troubles of RL.

Not much joy today,
Lynn

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#273364 - 01/15/17 06:43 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Shallowford Offline
Columnist

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 578
Loc: Michigan's thumb
Like everyone else, I've been swamped in RL. Work has been pretty consistent but several home projects with deadlines have been taking a lot of time. I have a significant commute and I have also devoted a bit of time to running favorite L&C Archive stories through text to speech so there is something engaging to listen to while driving.

I've never been very good at keeping multiple story lines separate unless they are from completely separate canons so I tend to read more completes stories than WIPs. Complete stories or stories from the Archive tend to get my comments as a result. Hopefully I will be able to get back to that as RL simmers down.

I've also noticed that the non-story related parts of the board have been really quiet. (General Discussion, Fanfic Challenge and Fanfic Related)

I still prefer our stories to those in the television show because of their depth and creativity. When I first came across the site the stories were good but it was the "community" aspect of these areas that drew me in most and made me want to participate. I realize how important feedback is to writers-and I have learned from the feedback as well- but those areas are still the first things I check when I load the site.

Several people have mentioned that this site is as close as they come to social media and I am one. I couldn't pick any of you out of a crowd but I enjoy your company.
_________________________
Shallowford

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#273383 - 01/16/17 01:04 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
VirginiaR Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 9396
Loc: USA
I read an article today on NPR about peer critiquing. It said that you should "Be kind, be specific, and be helpful." As a writer, I'll always accept that of feedback. I'll work even harder as a reader to make sure that my feedback fits all three of those criteria as well. (I'll also try to be funny, because we all need more laughter in our lives.)
_________________________
VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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#273385 - 01/16/17 05:32 AM Re: Comments [Re: Morgana]
Terry Leatherwood Offline
Kerth

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 2393
Loc: Southwest USA
Lynn, my heart goes out to you. I know a little about what you're going through. In 1991, when our oldest child was twelve, he was diagnosed with a rare and aggressive form of cancer called PNET (Primitive Neural Ecto-dermal Tumor - genetically related to Ewing's sarcoma) and died sixteen months later following two major surgeries, months of chemotherapy, and multiple radiation treatments. It wasn't easy - in fact, sometimes it still isn't easy - but my wife and I have stayed together, trying to raise the four younger siblings. We had tons of pressure on us, and even though I never seriously considered leaving, I understood why other men would.

The problem? That's the coward's way out. If life were easy, anyone could do it. You are a hero, Lynn, along with all the other parents who have placed the health and welfare of their children before their own comfort. I'm sure that there have been those who mean well who have suggested institutional care for your son. And you deserve a huge hug and constant approbation for staying with him and taking care of him. I hope and pray that there is some relief for you in the future, although nothing is guaranteed.

I wish I could do something concrete for the two of you, but since I can't, I'll have to settle for applauding you for your faithfulness. May the Lord grant you peace and rest from your labors, and may your way always be clear - even if it's a steep and rocky grade.

For Lynn: clap clap thumbsup
_________________________
After weeks at sea, Captain Fetherstonhaugh and his hardy crew had at last crossed the halfway point, and he mused that the closest dry land now lay in the Americas, assuming of course that it was not raining there.

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#273386 - 01/16/17 07:51 AM Re: Comments [Re: Terry Leatherwood]
folc4evernaday Offline
Merriwether

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 1549
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: Terry Leatherwood
In 1991, when our oldest child was twelve, he was diagnosed with a rare and aggressive form of cancer called PNET (Primitive Neural Ecto-dermal Tumor - genetically related to Ewing's sarcoma) and died sixteen months later following two major surgeries, months of chemotherapy, and multiple radiation treatments. It wasn't easy - in fact, sometimes it still isn't easy - but my wife and I have stayed together, trying to raise the four younger siblings.


Terry, I'm so sorry for your loss. whinging
_________________________
Erich Fromm - “Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.”
http://loisandclarktribute.com
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