Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Superman Related Post-Viewing Discussion: Man of Steel movie (SPOILERS)

I strongly disagree. That's proposing under false pretenses - while she thinks he is something he isn't and doesn't have all the facts and is unable to make an informed decision. It's dishonest and disrespectful. And it her puts in a horrible position if she says "yes" because then she has agreed to something without knowing what she was really agreeing to. It's basically trapping her, except that she can (thankfully) break off the engagement with the man who tried to lure her into marriage under false pretenses.

Which makes it a really good idea not to trick someone into making a promise under false pretenses - it's apt to make things end a lot worse than if he'd been honest when things got serious in the relationship and they first started talking about forever. Romantic relationships do end badly sometimes - so do engagements and marriages. By this logic, he should NEVER tell her, even after they are married.

Personally, I have a problem with Clark even having (penis in vagina) sex with any human without telling her the truth, because there is a risk of pregnancy (no matter how slight) and a woman deserves to know if she's running the risk of pregnancy-by-alien. The potential consequences are too huge. Obviously, this problem does not exist in any version where Clark knows he is incapable of reproducing with a human.

I just watched the film again. I was one of only 6 people in the whole movie theatre, although it was a 5:30 showing, so not exactly the top time, but still. It was a major change from when I watched it on opening weekend.

I still loved it. I have to agree though that I thought Clark could have done a bit more to worry about not wrecking property and such. True, most of the damage was from the World Engine set-up, that he works to stop, but his fight with Zod involved him wrecking things.

To be fair, in Smallville most of the collateral damage is a result of the US military attack.

I was reminded again that the blogger was Woodburn, a name I found interesting. That name to me just shouts "All the Presidents Men", Woodward and Bernstein team. Maybe I should not try to read to much into him selling out another journalist like he does calling out Lois Lane. I have to admit I found it a bit distressing that Perry also seemed to want Lois to give up her sources and stop protecting the alien.

I really liked the scene where Clark talks to the minister.

I noticed that when Lois first hands over the information to Woodburn, she refers to "my mystery man".

I followed the build up to Clark being there at the site on Elsemere Island a lot better. I definitely noticed it is Clark who takes Lois's bags, and gets the line "careful with those, there're heavy". That made me chuckle.

I have to say I really liked the scene where Clark is overwhelmed with everything and his mom shows up to comfort him. That was the best of the flashbacks. I also have to say that the flashbacks were really well done.

I have to go with the Lois finds Clark in a very short time view. Not so much because Perry is ragging on Lois about spreading her story, since there Perry is saying his publisher wants him to sue her, so that indicates there has been some time for the story to develop. The main thing is, Clark goes and tells Martha that he found out about his origin after he talks to Lois at the cemetery. That indicates to me it has not been too long for him.

Also, there are two different dogs.

I also have to really wonder why Lois is yelling "Clark" at him as she is coming up from the police car at his parents house just after battle of Smallville. I think they really should have had her yell "Superman", even if she has not really clearly told him that is his name yet. Maybe they did that so no one in the audience doubts that Lois knows CK=SM.

I still think part of Zod's destruction with his eyes was in the Daily Planet building, so I am going to go with the view that they relocated to a different part of town due to the destruction.

On the glasses, it is odd he puts them on in the elevator. I guess the theory is the disguise is more a different hair style, plus just the whole "could this person be Superman".

On thinking about it, Clark will have a much harder time than in Lois and Clark hiding his identity though. His biggest problem is not that he told Swanwick and the others he had been on the earth for 33 years, and his "I grew up in Kansas" line might not really tell them anything they didn't know, since they already know Smallville was attacked. The biggest problem is that Zod told everyone that Kal-el had been there for a while and hiding. In Lois and Clark, the idea was always hinted at the Superman had just arrived on earth. The key to his disguise was that he tried to say he had none. Here, Zod has pointed out to everyone that Kal-el has hid among them, so Lex starts knowing "he walks among us", the big breakthrough he got in Foundling.

I thought the interaction between Lois and Clark was wonderful, even if a bit subdued. I am not sure the kissing scene really made sense, but I think in light of just being saved it is not surprising Lois did that.

The big question is, does Perry know who Clark is. That I am still not sure on, but he clearly is watching and paying attention to Lois then. He clearly believes Lois knows. He also almost certainly knows Smallville was attacked, so maybe when he sees some mention to Smallville on Clark's resume, he puts two and two together. I have to wonder.

At least in Lois and Clark, Clark almost has the excuse he gets panicky seeing Lois nearly die, but I never buy it. It is really a result of the fact that not all of those involved were ready to let Lois know by the end of season 2, so they put off even deciding if she should know until the next season. Maybe also hoping to keep viewers by upping the suspense.

I am glad that Man of Steel dispenses with the whole "will she or won't she learn" angle. I am thinking at some level we would be too afraid they would do a memory wipe kiss, so I am just really glad they removed that whole angle.

Anyway, MoS Lois Lane is already a Pulitzer preize winner. She is not as easily fooled as aspiring Pulitzer prize winners as Lois and Clark Lois Lane.

L&C Lois:Nonsense. It is that my Clark is smarter. He knows that you do not rescue top reporters in ways that will shout "you saw me working as a grunt here, you know that I have a secret and will want to hunt it down". My Clark made sure his debut was in a way that he was clearly and without question totally in the open, and clearly just barging into the place of danger to rescue me, not lurking there under as assumed name. If my Clark had come on the space shuttle under the flase identity of Joe, I would have tacked him down and figured out his background in ten minutes as well.

Mos Superman:It was more then ten minutes.

L&C Clark:Not in the movie, not in the movie.

Doesn't a solider tell the general / coronal that "that's what they're calling him now" during the Smallville battle sequence? If so, Lois wasn't privy to that development since she was taken at the same time as Clark, so she doesn't know that she should call him Superman, she only knows him as Clark.

Some people would say you really should not propose until you are sure what the answer will be. I am not sure they are right, but that is one view.

So, while maybe Clark should wait to tell Lois until he feels ready to propose (which I am not agreeing with), he should tell her the secret before he proposes.

Well, on the plus side for L&C Clark, he did not have sex with Lois before telling her. I guess we can technically say that about the Superman II version of Superman, although this rule also means he should not do the memory wipe kiss.

My biggest issue is, what if Superman has been told he can not have children with a woman, and he has sex, and then she gets pregnant because the calculations were wrong. This is at least one of the background conditions in some versions of Superman Returns fan fic.

But doesn't she invent the Superman name during the "what does the S stand for" discussion.

At least, she clearly knows his Kryptonian name is Kal-el, so even if she has not fully decided to go with calling him Superman, she could yell "Kal-el" so people don't know who he really is.

Although if those are Smallville police, they may have heard the story of the bus rescue, heck for all we know one is the Fordham boy (who Mrs. Roos says saw what happened as well), or Lana (I don't think we actually see who else is in the police car at all), so maybe Lois is not really giving anything away. Still, I figure since we already saw her decide on the Superman name she should start using it.

IIRC, this is said when Lois, Clark, and the Colonel show up at the base to talk to the General (was he a General?) about a plan to send the Kryptonians back to the Phantom Zone. As I understand it, the Colonel (or whoever spoke to the soldier on the phone) got the name "Superman" from Lois (or possible from Clark, but he got it from Lois).

I am thinking it is General Swanwick, he is a general, who gets that line from a subordinate who says that Superman, Lois and Hardy are coming. Colonel Hardy earlier just says of the alien "He is on our side" or something like that, but does not name him.

Oh, one think I brought up before was how I thought it was odd that it was night in Kansas but daytime in Metropolis. I paid more attention this time, and it is clearly nighttime, with a very packed newsroom at the Daily Planet. So I guess we still can have an East Coast Metropolis.

In the novelization, Lois and Kal-El are not interrupted by Dr. Hamilton and Lois definitely names him then (making the "that's what they're calling him now" redundant and illogical because Swanwick would already have heard it.) I kind of wish they had allowed Lois and Clark to talk all the way through that part because that scene in the book has a bit more of the banter that you expect from the traditional Superman/Lois interview (that the movie cut WAY too short.)

What is hockey dialogue?

I noticed in the flash-back where Clark is being bullied he is reading Plato. This support my theory he probably then goes to college and probably has a slightly journalistic related college degree.

I said my own opinion was controvertial. I know that very few people will agree with me. I can also completely understand all your arguments. They are logical and perfectly reasonable. I just follow a different logic - which to you seems less honourable I guess, but I believe it to be circumspect and prudent in regards to his secret. You believe that Lois deserves to know, and there is a 'respect' owed to her. Yes she does deserve repect. But Clark deserves to keep his extremely dangerous secret from whomever he chooses.

I regards to "proposing under false pretenses - while she thinks he is something he isn't and doesn't have all the facts and is unable to make an informed decision" I can completely understand this argument, as I said above, but I think it is not as bad as you make out. Proposing as Clark and hiding Superman is like not telling someone you are a devout Catholic until after the proposal. Clark's personality - the man she loves - is no different whether she knows or not. He's still the same man.

You also mention that she's agreeing to something she has no idea about - and could always call off the engagement. All true again, but I am also of the impression that Clark wouldn't get to the stage of asking Lois to marry him until he knew that she WOULD deal with the revelation if she was ready to say 'Yes'. Of course he's going to be terribly worried how long it will take for her to come to terms with it, how angry she'll be for a while.

I knew someone would mention divorce... of course it's a real possibility. But, again, Clark on some level, is confident of their 'happily ever after' by the time he's proposing. And, although divorce is a technical possibilty and happens more these days than ever before, it's actually a lifetime commitment that can't be broken from a biblical point of view. Also, going down the 'what if' route. Say they do get divorced. She's now tied to him irrevocably anyway and would put herself in danger if she ever revealed the secret, even once they were split up.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. And again, I recognise it as controvertial. Maybe I'm just empathising more with Clark than with Lois so that's why my logic leads me here. (Not that I'm claiming I had a secret which I kept from my husband till after he proposed ... I'm not.)

And as I final point ... my favourite type of fanfic to read is revelation fic. I love it, at any point in their relationship. I just love the warm, fuzzy feeling it gives me to read these type of stories. So maybe I only believe the above for 'canon' stories. *shrugs* Or maybe these are the AU I mentioned originally where Lois finds out by some other means ... and then Clark not telling her until after he proposes is a moot point.

I've watched the film four times and have carefully taken note of this part of the film because of how people are saying that no-one was being careful with Clark's secret.

The scene between Clark (dressed as Superman) and Martha which leads into Lois running from the police car shouting his name clearly has both of them inside the porch and out of sight of the driveway. Martha moves down the steps but Clark doesn't. So, when Lois gets out of the car and runs to the house shouting 'Clark', the cop will only be able to see Martha. It will not seem at all strange that Lois is running to the Kent house shouting out the name of someone who lives there.

I am not sure your analogy really makes sense. I think your point does. In "Metallo" Lois admits that Clark is essentially the same in his being and goals and actions as Superman. She might not know both men are the same, but she knows the key things that motivate and inspire them.

On the other hand, being Superman is a big time commitment. So she really should have a right to chose if she is willing to have a husband who she has to share with the world. I guess you could argue being a top-notch investigative reporter means he has to run off at all hours of the day and night to, so maybe even that is not as big an issue.

I did realize something else about Man of Steel though. In previous incarnations Lois always finds out sometime after becoming romantically linked with Clark and or Superman. Revealing his secret will inevitably expose her to some scrutiny. In MoS despite her "my mystery man" line to Woodburn, Lois and Clark do not have any substantial romantic connection when she decides not to tell. For the first time she makes the decision to keep his secret without really having her personal feelings tied up in it.

You've seen it twice as many times as me, so I can't really argue with your summation.

I guess the other issue is that Lois is really worried about him. She knows he is strong and such, and she knows he survived the oil rig explosion (she was shown interviewing people about that earlier), but direct hits from fighter pilots and missiles are another level of intensity.

If this is truly the case, it was too subtle for the casual viewer. As a film-maker they should have made it more overt to the audience that Clark in his Super suit wasn't visible to the policeman. I'm a big fan of subtlety (such as the scene where Lois and Clark are about to kiss and then he rushes off to save Martha ) but in the visual medium and with something as important as Clark's secret identity they shouldn't leave the audience with any doubts.

Oh yes. Far to subtle. It's one of the few problems I do have with the film ... camera angles. It seems that the director wanted us to be far to much 'in' the action. But personally I feel more involved when I can take much more of a scene in ... I like wider, more distant angles (though not so that the action is hardly visible). I mean, even in real life when you are talking to someone face to face you get 160 degrees viewing with peripheral vision.

So, basically, the only reason I figured out the above is because I rigerously looked for it from the 2nd time onwards.

After reading a lot of discussion of the film, I have come to the conclusion that I wish in MoS they had showed Superman rescuing more people from the rubble after he kills Zod.

From a story telling standpoint, I think I know why they didn't. However I still wish they had.