Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Would Alt-Clark Risk Canon Dimension to Save Alt-Lois?

What if Alt-Lois died in the Congo in 1993?

Would Alt-Clark or HG Wells save Lois in 1993, so that she returns to Metropolis (instead of disappearing), even if that future would mean that Tempus would have no reason to bring canon-Lois there? If Alt-Clark and Canon-Lois don't meet, then he would not be available to sub in for canon-Clark while canon-Superman is lost in time, thereby allowing Tempus to destroy canon-dimension.

To me, the big question is, would Alt-Clark *know* that he risked dooming the canon dimension by going back in time and rescuing Alt-Lois? If he didn't know that, there could be no ethical dilemma.

Besides, I feel that he would choose the concrete action of helping alt-Lois *now* and worry about a nebulous possible future later on.

And another "besides": Besides, he's Superman! He could arrange something else to save the canon dimension, if he had to, and he knew about their problem.

This seems like a false dilemma to me, as well. There are clearly more than two universes in the show, even if we only saw the two. There is nothing to keep H. G. Wells from enlisting an alt-alt-Clark's help to save 'our' Clark. For that matter, even if alt-Clark and Lois hadn't met as they did, there's nothing to say that an intervention from Wells & Lois when Clark went missing wouldn't be enough to convince alt-Clark to sub for Clark. True, it would take some doing, but it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Also, I disagree with the premise of some of your answers to question three. Although there probably would be some initial awkwardness between alt-Lois and alt-Clark, if she is anything like 'our' Lois, she would be resilient enough to get over it and would not permanently feel too 'weirded out' or obligated to alt-Clark to have a relationship with him.

Joy,
Lynn

I'm looking at this only from Alt-Clark's POV (as Alt-Lois really doesn't have a choice in the matter). Would he OVERTHINK this? Would HG Wells warn him of the possible consequences in the timeline should he rescue her in one way as opposed to another? (You know how Wells feels about his precious Utopia.)

Lynn, I agree with you. Lois is resilient enough to overcome those issues. But as I mentioned before, would Alt-Clark know that? And NOT knowing that, would that shape his decision?

Ah. Point taken.

Thanks,
Lynn

Would Alt-Clark risk canon dimension to save Lois? Um, yes. Personally, even though we always perceive Lois as the impulsive one in their dynamic relationship, I think Clark is just as impulsive and sometimes irrational (the "it's-for-your-own-good" argument is a good example of that). We only met Alt-Clark a couple of times, as did Canon Lois, but it's obvious to everyone that he was already in love with her. I'm under the impression that he'd risk it for even a slim chance at getting Lois.

Two problems come with that, though. The first being that the Alt-Lois he is rescuing may not in fact be the Lois he loves ( what? yes. I went there.) Maybe she will be different, or never love him back, as described in the numerous scenarios listed in question three. But again, I don't think Alt-Clark would consider any of those factors. In fact, I don't think he would overthink it at all. Clark might, but Alt-Clark had different experiences. Also, I think the way he became Superman changes how he would react, as well- the whole world knowing he's Clark Kent and Superman might take some of the fear and pressure off. He'd know how to handle it better.

BTW, this is presuming that time hasn't gone by too much.

The other (unmentioned) issue- and what I consider the more relevant one- is the risk it brings to his own Alt-dimension. I agree with Lynn that someway, somehow, HG Wells would figure out a way to fix canon universe. I mean, the guy's got plenty of time on his hands. He'd figure it out. But the revival of alt-Lois in her own world I think would cause more issues. When would he return her? To his own time? After she'd been missing all that time? How would that reflect on his Superman personna? Or would it cause some sort of universal upheaval (worst-case scenario)? And if not to his time, then when? To the time when she first disappeared? That would bring the canon universe into jeopardy more than anything else. Besides that, Alt-Clark would not (likely) get the chance to relive time, so he'd had to have wait to find Lois in his own time, oblivious that he simultaneously screwed up his own history and the creation of Superman.

Alternately, if returning Alt-Lois rewrote time, then it would provide the opportunity for both the alt and canon universes to cross paths and coincide- their pasts being the only exception (i.e. Alt-Clark's parents would still be dead).

All in all, I think Alt-Clark would still do it. Despite all the reasons not to and the fact that he could be destroying two universes by doing so.

Actually I'm not certain it would necessarily destroy two universes so much as "create" a third that might well affect his own history at the point he would meet Lois (i.e. the Daily Planet). It just means that he has no known history with her (unless H. G. Wells knows how to de-age him along with his memories. It's the only way I can see it working...at least as far as quantum mechanics seems to suggest* In other words, the only way it MIGHT affect Alt-Clark directly is that he would have no frame of reference for experiences with her after saving him (and thus Lois would be meeting him for the second time at the Planet while Alt-Clark would be meeting her for the first time.) The more likely scenario would be that Alt-Clark creates a whole different universe in the process of saving her, making him the lone man out no matter what.

You are correct that he has created this image of Lois in his mind based on the two experiences he's had with Canon Lois and that infatuation is very problematic when it comes to a relationship with Alt-Lois so assuming for a second that he doesn't have those memories of Canon Lois wiped then there's a whole range of issues for them to work through on top of any Lois might have had due to the Congo. IF, however, H. G. knows how to both de-age Alt-Clark AND wipe his memories then there is no problem on this end of the spectrum as he would be starting from scratch.

(*the only reason I brought up quantum mechanics at all is because I watched a Nova special and there's a section of quantum mechanics that predicates itself on this very thing... that one difference can create a whole new universe.)

Wasn't there a story where Alt-C and Wells went back in time, saved her and brought her forward to after Alt-C stood in for Clark while he was stuck in the floating cube?

That's all I got though. No author or other plotline - other than her trying to figure out all the new stuff...

Carol

I vaguely remember reading one, Carol but I don't remember what it was called.

I agree with you there on many points. Wells being able to de-age and mind wipe, while very convenient, may be a little far-fetched though.

However, what I meant by the "destroying" the alt-universe though was kind of under the same principles. Using the quantum immortality theory, returning Alt-Lois to her original time of disappearance would not only disrupt the alt-universe in the fashion of causing a paradox, but also cause it to split into two different universes. The first universe is the one in which Alt-Clark lives without Alt-Lois, where he meets canon Lois and becomes Superman (and the world knows his identity). An unspecified amount of time goes by and he and HG Wells return Alt-Lois to her originally intended time. *However*, Alt-Clark does not return with her to that time (assuming that Wells cannot de-age or does not wish to contaminate time any further). Alt-Clark is left alone, still remembering and living in a world that up until this point has existed exactly as portrayed in the series.

Two options extend from here, depending on whether the concept of a "ripple effect" appeals to you or not. The first is that, nice and tidy, the ripple effect occurs and the entire alt-dimension is effected by the return of Alt-Lois to her place in the current timeline, essemtially restoring this alt-world. Alt-Clark may or may not be effected by this ripple (whichever suits your interests) and he would psychologically still believe his reality (where he met canon Lois and became Superman) happened when technically the return of Lois changed all that. The world changed around him.

The secondary option is without the ripple effect. Alt-CLark's world continues to exist, sans-Lois, and he just has to live his life with the satisfaction of knowing that he did return Lois to her place in time. However, Alt-Lois' return to her original place causes a split in the universe, to create as you put it the "third" alternate dimension. That dimension would go about much as the canon universe would, with changes dependent upon characters (such as any damage done by Lois' extended stay in the Congo, etc.).

So yeah. I over-complicated it. But that's the way I see it in my mind.

BTW, the nova special sounds interesting. Could you maybe shoot me the link? My actual physics knowledge is flimsy. I will come back with some supporting clips of my own ("Back to the Future" based ) when I find them.

I watched one of the "Fabric of the Cosmos" specials (it's a four-parter but I hadn't realized there was one specifically on time travel or else I would have watched that one as well). The link for the segments of the NOVA series is http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/fabric-of-cosmos.html#fabric-quantum

Christina, that was interesting show on the concepts of time. I now understand Einstein better than I ever did before and why he's such a physics god. I don't think it helps with my newest time-travel fic. Plus that whole time / space concept is making me .

I going to stick with the Wells / Brown (BttF) version of time-travel. Build a good machine and you can go anywhere! Sorry, anywhere & anywhen! (Maybe that's what they mean by time & space?)

I also kind of loved watching Stargate a fair amount so I know how wonky it can get! Boy did those eps get crazy!

I took the "time and space" thing to mean that myself. I just think (mentally) I tend to subscribe that every action causes a divergence that cannot be repaired. *shrugs*

That should be The Time Traveler\'s Wife by ML Thompson.

There was also my story: How I Spent My Christmas Vacation

Not nearly as intricate as ML's story, but it fills the description.

Nan

Thanks for the recommendation, Nan. What a great little story and just in time for the holidays. I thoroughly enjoyed it.