Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Archive Story Format - Plain Text or HTML?

Every so often, we ask our readers whether they'd prefer to have stories uploaded in the plain text/Courier font as now or whether they'd prefer HTML. Up till now, the answer's always come back for plain text. Let's see if things have changed this time around.

I think HTML would just end up being harder to load for both the author and for you. And then sometimes the HTML's can't be read by a person's computer so they can't read the story. Uggg...

There are some things that would be nice to have - like italics, but I'd prefer to Keep it Simple.

Also if you went to HTML, it would be pretty hard for me to download those stories into my Palm Pilot and take it with me (so much easier than printing it.)

The first two are pretty much where I'm at with HTML, Nancy. It would be nice to be able to emphasis words with italics, etc, but one of my own personal pet hates when prowling on the net for fic is finding an author's personal website and it being in the most ridiculous colour scheme so it's hard to read.

So we'd have to choose any colour scheme carefully. And even then we know that pcs don't all look at colour the same way and see the scheme differently.

It probably wouldn't be too much harder work for Lauren, mind you. So that one shouldn't concern anyone voting. We were spurred on to ask this one again now because Lauren's found some rather neat HTML tools recently.

I didn't know that you couldn't dl HTML text to a PP, so that's something to consider, too, when we make our decision. Thanks for the input, Nancy.

LabRat

When I first started reading the archive I was a bit thrown off by the txt format. Now that I have been reading it for a while, I have become used to it and I really enjoy reading my fics in that format. I especially like having the file size in front of me so I know what I am getting myself into length wise.

BUT, I have voted for HTML because I do miss italics and have at times went over to Annesplace to read a story there in HTML just because it was a bit easier on the eyes. My main reason for asking for HTML is a silly one:

The txt format is hard to print. I'll be the first to raise my hand and say I was in the middle of a great fic and then was asked to go somewhere with my boyfriend. So, I have printed off a bunch of the fanfic pages and taken them with me to read on the trip. The txt versions don't scroll across the whole screen (if this makes sense) and thus uses more paper. So I have gone and found the original forum posts of the story just to be able to take up less paper.

So my vote was for a silly reason, but honestly I won't be upset either way.

Text for me, mainly because more words fit on the screen. I do occasionally miss italics, etc, but not enough to want to switch.

I don't think that's a silly reason at all, Jojo. I still feel guilty about the major rainforest that apparently was felled so that readers could print out Caped Fear (twice! I never heard the end of that from some of them ) and Masques!

How fascinating to see how evenly the votes are panning out so far this time around. Before it's always resulted in a massive majority for sticking with text. Very interesting. Glad we asked again.

LabRat

I voted plain txt just because I happen to have a really ghetto word program. I have a killer computer, but I'm still writing my papers and fics in Text Editor. It just makes me wonder how much of the fancy HTML would actually show up when I save files. :p But I could very well be in the minority here with that issue.

JD

I prefer .txt - for one thing, it's best for me because I can sync the files from my hard drive directly into my PocketPC so I can read stories when I'm on the bus. If they were in HTML, they would be a) twice as big and, b) all messed up when they end up on my PPC.

Besides... I like simple things. I can do complicated, but I really like simple a whole lot more.

Btw - Jen... you're so not alone. I can code HTML in my sleep if I fancied it, but I write my stories in *notepad*. I sometimes wonder why I have a big beast of a laptop when all I use it for is... Notepad. Cause it's all I do with the thing, write. (ok, maybe Google a bit and some MSN, but I do nothing else on the thing)

I'm with you. The worst one I've ever seen is purple on black. Now who the heck is supposed to be able to read that?

And as for the palm pilot, some HTML pages will save as TXT, but sometimes the formatting is so off that it's a lost cause.

Yes, this can be true, but I wonder if some of it's because of the way the person is saving it. It seems I've seen different TXT files that have a completely different look to them as far as spacing 'on the sides' is concerned. I think it has got to do with whether or not word wrap is being used, but I'm not sure.

Well, see now guys, what you need to do instead of printing out those fics is get a palm pilot or similar. You can take it with you. You can charge it in the car. There are even portable chargers. Some of them are fairly inexpensive now. You pick one up at full price for about $99 US dollars. Sound expensive? Think about it. Almost all of us have a printer, but when you are printing out 100's of pages, that eats up your ink and your paper. And considering the cost of ink, that can add up pretty fast. The one I've got cost about $450, but that's been a while and the prices have come way down. But I can tell you that's the about the best $450 I ever spent. It's been well worth it. I believe you can get readers for really cheap, but if you want to make any notes while you are reading, I'm not sure you could with a reader.

I said .txt, but I don't feel as strongly about this as I would have done a year or so ago.

I usually download files and import them into Word, then reformat them into a font that I feel more comfortable reading off the screen. (I gave up printing out fic a long time ago, but I used to reformat everything before printing, too.) I don't find the editing process difficult, and have become quite adept at using the search and replace functions.

I do read fanfiction elsewhere in .html, but, again, quite often cut and paste into Word and reformat. This is certainly easier now than it used to be with earlier versions of the programme.

I do like .txt, though, because I find it easy to guess the length of the story from the file size. I suppose I would get used to .html file sizes, but... (Personally, I prefer to think in word counts, rather than kilobytes, and I still struggle to relate the two.)

One thing that the archive has going for it is that you can download stories in their entirety, rather than having to download individual sections or chapters, as is the case elsewhere. If keeping the file sizes smaller, and in .txt, means that this can continue to happen, then please do so. Also, the less fussy format means that pages are quicker to load.

I am, I suspect, in the minority these days in that I still use a dial-up connection, so speed is a major factor. Broadband only arrived in my neck of the woods relatively recently, and I know that there are still places where it isn't an option. (I hope to upgrade soon. People keep telling me that it will change my life.)

This isn't really relevant to the question, but... I feel marginalised enough by the lack of technological options available to me, although this is a trade off I agreed to make when I chose to make my home somewhere that is officially classified as 'very remote rural'.

I can't access the L&C music videos or trailers, for example. And, away from the internet, I'm getting sick of television going to town with plugging free digital services. At the moment, I am subjected to endless adverts reminding me of all the additional channels I could get if only I switched to digital. But. I. Can't. Receive. Digital. Channels. Where. I. Live. Not without getting satellite, anyway. Nor can I get digital radio here. Actually, I can't get all the analogue radio or television channels, either, and my mobile phone reception is patchy, at best.)

I guess what I'm saying here is this: some of us aren't able to run full pelt into the 21st Century. If any upgrading is going to leave us behind, do it thoughtfully and gently, please.

Thank you.

Chris

I'm not really sure about this whole thing.
I don't really need italics etc. but I absolutely loathe this line break thing in almost the middle of the page.

What makes me wonder:
Why would txt be better for usage on a pocket pc?

I use one and normally I take the stories from annesplace rather than from the archives.
I would copy and paste them into word and save them as a doc on my SD card.

Bye,

Jana

Line break thing?

LabRat

I voted HTML. As a reader, I don't mind the text files, but as a writer, I dislike them. I miss italics. I miss accent marks. I don't like the courier font. HTML just looks better, I think. Until I came here, I'd never posted fanfic in text format, nor had I ever burdened my readers with hard-to-read fonts or color schemes. Yes, some writers do, but there's absolutely no reason the archive couldn't keep the white background and black text in some comfortable font.

Just my .02. I'm content to go along with the majority, obviously, but given a choice, I'll pick the HTML.

Caroline

Yeah, dial-up!

What do you mean, that's not a good thing?

I think I can get some sort of broadband, or cable internet (though my cable service is pretty sketchy), but I presently refuse to ante up for the different modem, and higher monthly rates.

What can I say? I'm old, and set in my ways.

Tank (who probably wouldn't be able to figure out how to watch all those streaming videos anyway)

Actually there are lots of places that have only dial-up available. If I lived about 20 miles from where I do now, that would be my only option.

I think the HTML might be harder for some writers to use. Somebody would have to tell *me* how to do it. If that means loading a file with MS Word or similar, then I could handle it. If it means I'm going to have to go through some hosting agency, I'd be upset. Some of us are not terribly computer literate. I know more than some folks, but I'm not an IT person. I know that a lot of time, I ask for explanations and what I get is given in computerese, and I'm usually left on the clueless side. (Recently I was told by someone to read the instructions. Well, dang, if I'd understood them in the first place, I wouldn't have asked the question.)

As for why TXT works better for me with my hand held, I couldn't tell you, Schnuffichen. I just know I've had better luck with it. Maybe that's because my handheld is about four years old, but a lot of people that use them have even older hand helds.

I think this may have something to do with your computer settings. My TXT documents don't show up as courier unless I *change* the font. I also don't like courier. My comes up as something called Lucinda console. You have several options to choose from. Now, when I first tried the internet, I found fan fic at the same time (1998). Then my files *did* show up as courier. But then I played around and changed my settings. And that old computer is the one that I've been using until the last couple of weeks, and it also shows up as lucinda console. You may know this already, but I'll tell you how to change it. In Windows, go to the Control Panel and then pick Internet Options. The general tab should come up. Near the bottom you will see 'fonts'. Choose that. There you can change your web page fonts and your plain text font. There aren't a lot of choices, but maybe that will help a little. I don't know how to do it with other systems, but I'm assuming it would be similar.

I totally agree here. I'd be upset if I had to spend time making the text pretty. I don't do it when I post it on the boards, other than putting recaps in italics. I wouldn't want to have to do it before I send something up to the archive either.

Now mind you, I really *can* code HTML with my eyes closed - I just think if I had to go through all the trouble of formatting it so it looks nice for other people, when I myself think it looks perfectly fine the way it is when I type it up in Notepad, I might not want to bother. And having someone else format it for me would annoy me - I don't mind someone fixing typos or punctuation in my text file, but formatting the story for me isn't the same thing. It wouldn't *look* like my story anymore. (yeah, I'm nutty that way..)

And then if you're just going to have an HTML page for the sake of having it in that format, but have the stories show up with no background and pretty much the same as they do as .TXT files (no weird color schemes, no strange fonts, etc.), then I'm wondering what the point is in having it in HTML anyway.

{looks around} Hoping that wasn't me...
I have a tendency to forget that people don't understand techy stuff as well as I do.

I chose HTML because it just looks better in a browser, which is one of the two major ways I read fic. The second way is to copy all the text into a Word file and turn it into a Microsoft Reader-format eBook and copy it into my Windows Mobile phone.

When reading on a web browser, it's easier on the eyes.

When copying to an eBook, either way is just as easy to convert to an eBook. When I copy the text into the Word file, I have to convert single carriage returns to double carriage returns for readability for HTML. With text only, there is one additional step. There are carriage returns at the end of every line rather than only at the end of a paragraph, so I have to convert carriage returns to spaces or nothing depending on if a space already exists. Then I convert the paragraph carriage returns to double. Then I save the file and use Word to convert it to Reader format and I upload it to my phone for reading.

At the time I write this, the results are 13 for text and 12 for HTML. Pretty evenly divided.

Oh, no, no, no. Writers don't do anything. The Archive does. All the writer has to do is submit the story as normal. Except that they can use italics, bold, whatever. The Archive would convert the files to HTML before uploading. It would work in the same way that Annnette uploads stories to Annesplace. You don't have to do anything special when submitting stories to her, you wouldn't have to when submitting to the Archive.


LabRat

Well, I don't know about the rainforest, Labrat, but as someone who lives in an area of the world where the manufacture of paper and lumber is our largest industry, I just want to say 'Thanks.'

ML (who writes long stories specifically to help out the paper industry)

I voted for plain text, but that's only because there was no "other" option.

I don't know if it's possible to do this and still have it inside the web browser, but what about .rtf? It's mostly plain text, but you get text formatting capabilities like italics and bold, and most computers can read it.

You could probably also read it on PDAs if you had a program on your PDA that could read files made by word processing programs like Word or Word Perfect--probably even Works.

So, how 'bout that RTF?