Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Just how old are your ears???

Here is the link and the article. It is possible to register for free to see the whole article, which includes a nice graph of age to range...

The poll starts after the article...

A Ring Tone Meant to Fall on Deaf Ears -New York Times[/b]

By PAUL VITELLO
Published: June 12, 2006
In that old battle of the wills between young people and their keepers, the young have found a new weapon that could change the balance of power on the cellphone front: a ring tone that many adults cannot hear.

In settings where cellphone use is forbidden — in class, for example — it is perfect for signaling the arrival of a text message without being detected by an elder of the species.

"When I heard about it I didn't believe it at first," said Donna Lewis, a technology teacher at the Trinity School in Manhattan. "But one of the kids gave me a copy, and I sent it to a colleague. She played it for her first graders. All of them could hear it, and neither she nor I could."

The technology, which relies on the fact that most adults gradually lose the ability to hear high-pitched sounds, was developed in Britain but has only recently spread to America — by Internet, of course.

Recently, in classes at Trinity and elsewhere, some students have begun testing the boundaries of their new technology. One place was Michelle Musorofiti's freshman honors math class at Roslyn High School on Long Island.

At Roslyn, as at most schools, cellphones must be turned off during class. But one morning last week, a high-pitched ring tone went off that set teeth on edge for anyone who could hear it. To the students' surprise, that group included their teacher.

"Whose cellphone is that?" Miss Musorofiti demanded, demonstrating that at 28, her ears had not lost their sensitivity to strangely annoying, high-pitched, though virtually inaudible tones.

"You can hear that?" one of them asked.

"Adults are not supposed to be able to hear that," said another, according to the teacher's account.

She had indeed heard that, Miss Musorofiti said, adding, "Now turn it off."

The cellphone ring tone that she heard was the offshoot of an invention called the Mosquito, developed last year by a Welsh security company to annoy teenagers and gratify adults, not the other way around.

It was marketed as an ultrasonic teenager repellent, an ear-splitting 17-kilohertz buzzer designed to help shopkeepers disperse young people loitering in front of their stores while leaving adults unaffected.

The principle behind it is a biological reality that hearing experts refer to as presbycusis, or aging ear. While Miss Musorofiti is not likely to have it, most adults over 40 or 50 seem to have some symptoms, scientists say.

While most human communication takes place in a frequency range between 200 and 8,000 hertz (a hertz being the scientific unit of frequency equal to one cycle per second), most adults' ability to hear frequencies higher than that begins to deteriorate in early middle age.

"It's the most common sensory abnormality in the world," said Dr. Rick A. Friedman, an ear surgeon and research scientist at the House Ear Institute in Los Angeles.

But in a bit of techno-jujitsu, someone — a person unknown at this time, but probably not someone with presbycusis — realized that the Mosquito, which uses this common adult abnormality to adults' advantage, could be turned against them.

The Mosquito noise was reinvented as a ring tone.

"Our high-frequency buzzer was copied. It is not exactly what we developed, but it's a pretty good imitation," said Simon Morris, marketing director for Compound Security, the company behind the Mosquito. "You've got to give the kids credit for ingenuity."

British newspapers described the first use of the high-frequency ring tone last month in some schools in Wales, where Compound Security's Mosquito device was introduced as a "yob-buster," a reference to the hooligans it was meant to disperse.

Since then, Mr. Morris said his company has received so much attention — none of it profit-making because the ring tone was in effect pirated — that he and his partner, Howard Stapleton, the inventor, decided to start selling a ring tone of their own. It is called Mosquitotone, and it is now advertised as "the authentic Mosquito ring tone."

David Herzka, a Roslyn High School freshman, said he researched the British phenomenon a few weeks ago on the Web, and managed to upload a version of the high-pitched sound into his cellphone.

He transferred the ring tone to the cellphones of two of his friends at a birthday party on June 3. Two days later, he said, about five students at school were using it, and by Tuesday the number was a couple of dozen.

"I just made it for my friends. I don't use a cellphone during class at school," he said.

How, David was asked, did he think this new device would alter the balance of power between adults and teenagers? Or did he suppose it was a passing fad?

"Well, probably it is," said David, who added after a moment's thought, "And if not, I guess the school will just have to hire a lot of young teachers."

Kate Hammer and Nate Schweber contributed reporting for this article.

----------------------------------------------------

Ok, go to Fork Ringtones and click on Mosquito Tones ( you may have to click a couple of times to activate the link) and then click on Mosquito Tones in the next column and then one more time. Then you should see a listing of numbers ranging from 14,000Hz to 20,000Hz ending with the word Mosquito.

If you click on any of these, you will get a little window where you can preview the sound. (Sometimes I had to click twice to activate it.)

At this point you will want to turn up the sound on your computer all the way. Don't worry, if you do this at work, the most anyone will hear will be a very annoying tone, if they hear anything at all. To cancel the preview just click on another selection.

Preview each one and make note of the level that you[b] couldn't hear anything. And then answer the questions.

When we first heard about this, Elisabeth and I were disbelievers, until we tried to play on my laptop.

With the volume cranked up, we couldn't hear it. But here is the funny thing. Katelynn, our 11 month old, was nursing at the time. When whe hit play, she almost immediately stopped nursing and turned toward the laptop with a dirty look on her face (Well, at least she was frowning.) She continued to stare at the laptop until the file finished playing. Just to be sure, we waited a little while and waited until she was nursing again and then played the tone again. Same exact reaction. It was amazing!

Later, I tried it with headphones and I can just barely hear the tone from the article.

As for Fork.com, I can only hear just hear 18,000Hz with the headphones on. A co-worker with a newer computer tried it and I could clearly hear the 18,000Hz, so it must be my setup.

I can definitely hear the Mosquito tone, which to me sounds like a string of random tones that are a little annoying.

Wish we had a dog.

James

The 19,000 was a low hum, but since I heard something I checked it. Ditto for the mosquito tone. And that's on a laptop without speakers attached.

I'm just glad to know my ears are younger than the rest of me.

Sue

If you don't mind, I'll skip the test. I get enough of annoying high-pitched noises as it is. I have the second-sharpest ears in the family (my sister's are a shade more sensitive, but she lives elsewhere), and I'm constantly coming up against things that no one else in the house can hear.

My grandfather is nice enough to watch TV with headphones on (though even then I can sometimes hear what he's watching from several feet away), but if he leaves the door open, I can still hear the screen from down the hall and halfway across the next room.

I also have trouble when Mom leaves the kitchen stereo on without playing anything (the speakers put out high-pitched static), when some lamps are put on dimmers, when some light bulbs are about to go bad, etc.

Recently, a new one came up that's even worse. You know how some hard drives hum or click or something when they work? Not the bad "I'm about to break" noises, but the little "my motor's spinning so I can access the right part of the disk" sounds. Well, I just got a new laptop (the old one seems to be falling apart as fast as I can fix it), and the hard drive on this thing puts out a high-pitched whine whenever it's on. (It's especially annoying now because I have a hard time ignoring it while writing this post.)

The ringtone thing is interesting, but I wonder if it's really worth the price. Every time someone in the room gets a call or TXT, you have to put up with an annoying sound? And how do you even know whose phone it is? With some of the higher-pitched sounds, it becomes very hard to tell where exactly it's coming from. Like with the TV screen. I know from experience what it is, but that sound bounces off the walls and fills the whole room (and, like I said, half of the next one).

Anyway, I just turned 28. So maybe soon it'll start to bother me less (especially if I'm around this HDD too much).

I just feel bad for the dog. I wonder how much he has to put up with that none of us are aware of...

Paul

P.S. Forgot to mention the other side of things, the reason we've been aware of high-range hearing loss for the past few years. Mom has trouble with Grandpa and some of our older relatives. She used to think people were just ignoring her (the older generation having been raised before the feminist revolution).

Turns out, though, that it's a real physical problem. They can't always hear her voice anymore. Women's voices are naturally higher-pitched than men's, and that difference is enough to be critical to octagenarian (and higher) ears. It's an even bigger problem for my niece, who is young, female, and (in some situations) naturally softspoken.

I'm the one (the only one, so far) who checked "I couldn't hear a thing."

I wasn't even sure the test was working properly, until my 3-year-old grandson who, incidentally, was in the next room, yelled, "Turn that off, Grandma! I don't like that noise!" LOL

I played it on my laptop - plugging in the speakers and my earphones to the speakers, but not very loudly. I heard all sounds very clearly. And, I get it, ears grow old, but I just find it SO weird that there are people who wouldn't hear these sounds. (No offence, anyone.)

It's especially strange since I always thought I don't listen very well. Though that has to do more with the loudness of the sound, rather than the frequency, more likely; I feel lost when people are whispering to me.

Since we're talking about sounds, though, I'd like to share with you an experience I recently had.

You know when the TV is on, but not on a particular channel, and you just get a black screen you could mistake for a turned-off TV?

Whenever this happens, I get a funny feeling. It's not exactly listening to the sound, because there's not really much of a sound. It's more like feeling the presence of a wave around me, and that wave feels to be a sound wave. If you get it too, then you'll understand what I'm talking about. My brothers often forget the TV in their room (next to mine) turned on like that, and I always get up and go turn it off because it annoys me.

Anyways, one day I was out with my father. The moment we entered the house, I felt the presence of a wave, and told him "The TV's on," although we couldn't see the red indication from where we were standing. My father stared at the black screen for a moment, then walked over and saw the indication. "How did you know?" he asked me. I explained. He couldn't understand what I was talking about.

I found that really strange, and I think it has to do with this test you found, James. Though I'm not even sure it *is* a sound - but it feels like it.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

I can hear up to 17 kHz just fine. The 18 and 19 kHz I can hear very briefly when they first start, but I suspect that means it takes a second for them to actually get to the right pitch.

The Mosquito tone is annoying, and on this speaker system even painful. (On the speakers at work it's merely annoying.)

Anna, it's possible that you're hearing the screen whine (like what I talked about with Grandpa's TV), but that it's subtle enough that you're not registering it as a sound. If it's at the edge of your hearing, your subconscious could pick up on it without you fully realizing that you're hearing anything. So you process it as a "feeling" instead.

As for the tones... I decided to listen anyway. Stupid of me, but I did. Man, that gave me an instant headache. It was a relief to shut it off.

I could hear the 17000 easily. To hear the 18000, I had to turn the volume up to about 1/3. (My ears are sensitive enough that I normally keep the volume at about 3% of max.) At about 2/3, I could hear the 19000. I don't think I heard the 20000. I turned the volume up all the way, but I got mostly static. Hard to say if there was an overtone to it or not.

Of course, I'm using headphones, and I'm not sure if they're rated for 20000. The frequency range for headphones generally ends somewhere around 19-21. I did try the laptop speakers, but again, I'm not sure what they're rated for.

Given how high I had to turn up the volume to get the 19, though, I'll assume that 20 is above my range.

Paul

I guess my ears are about as old as I am since I stopped hearing at 16000. In all fairness though, I've got the washing machine running right next to me. I guess I'll have to try it again later.

Jackie

That must be it, Paul.

On second thought - James, are all the sounds of the same length? Because all I can hear at 20,000 is a very light 'tick' sound at the beginning, and then nothing, while at the other frequencies I get lengthy sounds.

Incidentally - I had my parents and little brothers take the test, and all of us heard the exact same things.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

The tones are an endless cycle. They will keep playing until you select a differnt tone.

The little click is an indicator that your mouse hit the right spot on the screen. So, if you didn't hear anything after the click, then you probably can't hear that tone.

If everyone in your family heard the same thing, then I would guess you have good genes

I have to agree with Paul about the 'wave' you feel. I sometimes get that when I walk into the living room and my daughter has left the VCR on. I can definitely tell that it is on.

I used to be able to do that with people, meaning I could tell when someone is in the house, even when they are being quiet. Having lived in a house with three kids under the age of 7 has pretty much destroyed that ability...

But it was weird when we first moved into our new house, some 8 years ago. There would be times that I would swear that someone was in the hallway but no one was there. This feeling was there all day and night long. Very disturbing when trying to navigate at night in low/no light. After a while, I became used to it. However, when we got a new thermostat for the furnace, the feeling went way. The location for the thermostat was about the same place as the feeling...

James

I should have voted for 19,000 Hz, then. Ah, well.

Funny story, the one about the thermostat. Who knows what could've caused it...

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

I used headphones. I could hear 14,000 and 15,000 and Mosquito, but none of the others.

I used speakers, and the last one I could hear was the 18k. I heard the Mosquito fine, though I had to switch quickly. That was annoying! I saw this on Good Morning America the other morning. I couldn't hear the tone that they were playing for all of the teenagers, but they brought the tone down to a lower level, and I could hear it.

I hear an actual whine with muted TVs. After awhile, I can usually tune it out. I remember in elementary school, I heard the whine while I was standing in the hallway outside of the cafeteria. I looked around the corner, and sure enough, there were a few computers on the far side of the cafeteria. Even now, if I step into the house and there's a tv on in the next room, even muted, I can hear the high-pitched whine.

Well, with home speakers I hear them all except 20,000

I used my laptop's speakers, and headphones. In both cases, I could distinctly identify VERY (and I really mean VERY) disturbing sounds, those that seem to be destroying your brain cells. Aargh!

I couldn't hear any of the tones, but before I decided that I was deaf, I waited for my 15 year old grandson to get home so he could listen.... And he couldn't hear any of the tones either. One of my speakers is blown, or at least it crackles, so I suspect my laptop can't handle those frequencies.

I had to plug my headphones in to make sure, but ouch! They were really ear piercing sounds. Kind of reminds me of tha high pitched noise in COTOC when Anonymous tried to get the President during though peace talks.

That's really interesting. I could hear them all except the 20,000, and my brother got the same results as I did (I'm 17, he's 11).

I don't think I fancy putting one of these on my cell phone, however... I just might lose my mind.

Anna, I get something like that too, except I do hear a very high-pitched sound... a muted television is just the worst sound ever, to me. I often leave my computer monitor on, though, even after turning off the PC, and it doesn't bother me.

Actually, thinking about it, I often hear high-pitched noises at night, when everything else is usually silent.

Julie

Wow - as the first tone I wasn't able to hear was 19000 Hz, my ears seem to be teenagers

We had the same topic lately in our class of Biological Psychology and it was funny to watch the nervous prof (about 40 years) staring at our face "You heard anything? I don't hear anything? Are the speakers on? I don't hear nothing - but you're actually hearing anything?!?"

Bye,

Jana

PS: My dog responded to none of those tones - but I don't wonder b/c he doesn't respond on his ultrasonic whistle, too

I never did get a little window on any of the tones, no matter how many times I clicked. Maybe that's why none of us could ever hear the tones.

Do you have a pop-up blocker? It may be blocking the little windows. Try holding the Ctrl key down when you click.

No, no pop-up blocker, rivka. I didn't have the window maximized, so I couldn't see the little window that opened to the right. When I tried it today, the frequencies went from 15,000 to 20,000 and ended with the mosquito. I couldn't hear any of them except Mosquito, and it was pretty quiet. My hearing has decreased in the past 3 or 4 years, but it's a little disheartening to realize how bad it has become.

BTW, I couldn't vote because I don't know if I could hear the 14,000 Hz tone or not.

Every one of them, apart from the mosquito one, sounds exactly the same to me: like a high-pitched hissing. Have to admit that I don't really see the point...


Wendy

Wendy, that's a speaker artifact. The actual sounds are extremely shrill warbles.

With 40+ year old ears, I was very surprised that I could hear all of them. Very annoying. But, hey, since I heard that some places play these sounds to keep kids from hanging around, that might at least explain why I seldom just hang around convience stores

Now, what's even more surprising is that my dog had no reaction whatsoever. I even called her over to stand right next to the computer and all she did was look around to see if I had something for her to eat.

EDIT TO ADD: Oh, by the way, the reason I'm 40+ is because although my hearing appears to be excellent, my memory isn't. I can never remember exactly how old I am. (I think that's because it changes every year )
ML (btw, I enjoyed the test)

I could hear all of them. 20,000 was right at the edge of my hearing, and it hurt! I'm 20 years old, so I suppose it isn't all that unusual that I could hear it. It didn't work on my laptop, so I had my brother turn up the speakers on his computer and we tested all the tones. He could hear each one, as well. He's 18. My little sister (7 years) asked us to stop playing it because it was annoying.

My brother and I decided to test the tones on our Dad, who's 42. We told him that people of middle age or older generally couldn't hear them. So, we played them, and he couldn't hear any of them. He didn't believe that we were telling the truth, so he called our sisters (ages 7, 5, and 5) into his office. He had them turn around, and without playing any of the tones, asked if they could hear anything. Of course, they couldn't. He then played the tones. He asked if they heard anything. They said yes. He asked what they heard. At the same instant, the twins said it sounded like a whistle. He believed us then!

Jen

It really hurt my ears. I heard them all. Cool article! (I'm 29 in July)

EDIT - but my hearing is really bad otherwise!!! Sounds get all muffled together!

Owwwwww. The mosquito one made my hair stand on end

I stopped hearing the sounds, but I could still FEEL them. That sound weird?

As soon as I get on a pc which has some boxes, i'll take the test

Oh great, another thing I need to worry about my 8th grade students trying to pull on me! My mom tells the story of going into a store first thing in the morning when my brother was around 3 years old. When he entered the store, he fell to the ground screaming and covering his ears. No one could figure out what was wrong until an employee realized that someone had forgotten to turn off the silent alarm before they opened for business.

I could hear all of them Am I an Alien?

I could hear up to 17,000, and I'll be 23 on the 23rd of this month. After that, all I could hear (on headphones) was static.

I could only hear the mosquito one and none of the others. My boyfriend who was sitting in the room with me could hear almost all of them.

I'm only 27, so I hope I'm not losing my hearing!!!

My hearing's good, could hear just fine. Guess I'm an Alien too.

No, really, my brother and I are just hypersensitive to noises- most music drives us a little nuts, unless listening to it is absolutely the only thing we're doing (can't even carry on a conversation)- when my brother was little, my mom took him to stores with her and he would just go ballistic. He'd race up and down the aisles, whine, and just be a total handful. She finally realized it was the background music, when she noticed he was calm only in one supermarket- which didn't play any music at the time. Luckily, we've gotten better at tuning out background noise, but it's still really annoying.

Some stores I can't stay in long, because I feel sound humming against my skin, and I've walked out on a few dances because the music just got to be too much.

My TV screen sound is awful! Whenever it's on and it's just black it shrieks at me, though no-one else (cept my older brother) can hear it. My computer screen never made a sound. Then I got the smart idea to put them next to each other. Now they fight! They whine at each other if they're both on, and my computer screen winked out a couple times because of it. And whenever I go near either with a phone- cell or cord, the sound/phone turns to static then cuts out. I'm in the process of seperating them ,but it's just really weird. My brother told me it's because they put out the same kind of waves .