Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Archive, Annesplace, FoLCVideo, MBs fundraising poll

Hey all


As most of you know, these sites are kept going with a lot of hard work on the part of willing volunteers, and also with donations from FoLCs. Every few years we run a fundraiser, asking for donations to pay the costs of webhosting, domain names etc. The last fundraiser was in spring/summer 2004; generous FoLCs donated enough cash to keep the sites going for at least three years.

In the meantime, Annette has kindly provided a new site for hosting videos, trailers, photos and so on - as these take up a lot more space and bandwidth, this site is more expensive than the others and so, even though we get a really good rate from our webhost, we need to raise more money sooner than we anticipated. So watch these boards for a new appeal for cash within the next few months.

In preparation for this, we have some thoughts about what could be offered in return for donations. Last time we raffled some autographed fanzines, and this poll asks for your opinion on what the unofficial 'fundraising committee' is considering for this time round. We had the idea of asking winners/nominees for the Kerth short story categories in recent years to write a new story. Then one of our very talented trailer-makers would make a trailer to accompany the story. The stories and trailers would be put on a DVD, as well as some new music videos. Anyone donating over a certain amount would get a copy automatically. Nothing on the DVD would be released online until a year after its issue for the fundraiser.

There are costs involved in burning and mailing a DVD, so we'd have to take that into account in setting the minimum donation for getting a copy. And this, incidentally, is why we're not considering a paper fanzine this time. Last time, we had help covering the costs of printing, binding and so on, and one FoLC paid for most of the postage costs (which were very high as the fanzines were heavy) out of her own pocket.

Finally, when we get started on the fundraiser we're going to need help: volunteers to make trailers and videos, collectors in different countries/regions, help with distribution etc. So if you'd like to help in any way, do let us know!

Oh, and if there's anything at all that's not clear, please post to ask! We're still working this all out ourselves - which is why we're asking for opinions - and it's very possible that we've overlooked stuff or not explained it very well.

Edited to add: We're still discussing the mechanics of distribution costs, specifically the cost of mailing the DVD to a country where we don't have FoLCs who are able to burn and mail it to others. One option is that the minimum donation could be reduced and shipping costs calculated separately, so watch this space and if you have anything to add on that subject please post!


Wendy, SaraK and Yvonne
'Fundraising Committee'

By the way...love this plan!

I was the one to answer you need something else fabulous bla bla

I think that each author should submit a small bio about themselves to put on the DVD. Like an extra kind of thing. It's nice to know a little bit about the authors of our wonderful stories!

Just a thought...

~Lois Lane Wanna Be

And it's a great thought too, LLWB! It wouldn't be at all difficult to do, and it makes things more interesting for readers, as you say.

Thanks for the suggestion!


Wendy

Count me in to help in any way I can. Vids, trailers, graphics, whatever. Just let me know what you need from me, and I'll make it happen.

~Anna

I'm probably going to show off my computer ingnorance here but in lieu of the cost of burning and mailing a bunch of DVDs. Would it be more cost effective to put the 'special items' on a secured webspot for a period of time? Those who contribute the threshold amount would be emailed the password which would give them access to the items for downloading on their own.

Each contributor could then decide whether or not to just read/enjoy the items, or burn their own DVD from their download.

Tank (who has contributed a story in the past and would be happy to again if TPTB would want one, though he also understands that they might be looking for 'new blood')

That's a very interesting idea, Tank. It would certainly save on time and costs. The only drawback I can imagine off the top of my head is someone with dial-up might find it tedious to download and some might have downloading problems.

But we could always get around that by having the DVD on standby and if anyone encountered problems dl from the site they could get it by mail. It would still be a saving anyway, I think.

And actually, although while trawling around the net looking for music videos and fanfic I often have dl problems here and there, I think here in FoLCdom our sites are pretty stable and don't have many of those problems. That's been my experience, anyway. So problems dl from a site would be minimal, I think.

Unless, the techies out there can foresee problems with a password? The Stargate forum where I'm currently getting my episode dls has a system where you have to post 10 posts to the forum before you get access to the dls. They do this by having the folder that contains the dls invisible. It only appears when you make the 10 posts. So this kind of thing seems to be possible, albeit I have no idea how difficult it is.


LabRat

I guess the only question would be whether someone would turn around and give everyone the password, which would kind of defeat the point... but then, people can copy DVDs, too. And in my decade of FOLCdom, I've seen very few people who want to cheat like that, so we're probably okay there.

Personally, I prefer this idea -- for some reason, going to a website (even with a password) just seems a lot easier than getting a DVD in the mail. Which is kind of strange, I admit, but there you are.

PJ

I'm slightly broke (some of you know my situation. blech) so I couldn't afford to donate unless something changed between now and then (please, change!) However, the question of a dvd came to mind. Despite being such a popular technology, some people don't have dvd players attached to their computers. You might also want to think of providing cd's for those that want them.

Just an idea.

Thanks for all the responses and ideas so far! Keep them coming.

Sara, Wendy, and Yvonne
"Fundraising Committee"

Well, like I said, I'm leaning toward the password-protected website idea, personally -- I've had several different experiences of getting a CD/DVD in the mail and then finding out that my system couldn't play it. It seems very likely to me that others would be in the same boat.

And then there's the question of whether people would be comfortable giving out their mailing addresses. Random fly-by lurkers wouldn't donate, I wouldn't think, but there might be long-term lurkers, or people going by an alias, or very security-conscious FOLCs who would prefer not to share that information.

OTOH, obviously some other people love the idea of a DVD -- no download time, take it with you anywhere without the hassle of burning it, it looks wicked cool on the shelf, etc.

So... why can't we offer both? Set a minimum donation level, whatever it takes to cover costs, and then let the donor decide if he/she would like a DVD to be mailed, or would prefer getting a website address and password.

Would it work to set one minimum donation level for a DVD, if you want one, with a slightly lower level for getting a password? I'm assuming that the website option would be less expensive than shipping, but I may be wrong -- obviously there are costs involved in hosting websites (otherwise we wouldn't need to raise funds!).

Just some thoughts

PJ

Personally I'd rather have the DVD so that I could play the vids on my tv rather than my computer. That way I can watch from my couch with a bowl of popcorn. On the other hand I've also had DVDs mailed to me and found that they don't play on my tv, so that's the down side.

I really like Pam's idea of having both and letting the donator choose, but it might be a lot of work for you guys to sort all of that out, and it might cost even more to do both than doing just one or the other.

~Anna

In the past I have always donated when someone asked for it. But I can't do it this time. Things are a little tight since I don't work anymore. Hopefully when I start getting my social security check I can help you all again.

I like Pam's idea of doing both. Unfortunately, I can't help out money wise because I've been unemployed for a couple of years now. I just got done with school, so I'll be looking for work.

I'd still like to help though. Is there a link or something that I can upload to my SOSL&C website I'm working on? I'd at least like to advertise what's going on so others can donate if they can.

Thanks, everyone, for your input so far! We've had lots of terrific ideas and the fundraising committee (well, actually, an informal group of us who've semi-volunteered Tank, we're considering the possibility of offering a choice between a download and a DVD - Annette's looking at the technicalities involved in the DL option. If we went with it, the minimum donation for a DL would be less than for a DVD. Oh, and I love your suggestion - in private email - for a story!

Anita, Alexis and others... we perfectly understand that some people simply can't afford to donate. Anita, I hope your financial circumstances improve soon; Alexis, good luck job-hunting! And we'd love it if you could advertise the fundraiser on your site - once we officially launch it, there'll be the appeal post on these boards, the Archive, Annesplace and so on which you could link to.

Incidentally, although we've been talking about minimum donations to get the DVD, we do hope that everyone understands that any amount, however small, is very much appreciated. Even a single dollar helps. Without the help and support of FoLCs, sites such as the Fanfic Archive, Annesplace and the nfic archive, FoLCVideo, FoLCPhoto, the new Kerth website and these boards simply wouldn't exist. We want to thank again everyone who has donated money in the past and hope that we can count on the continuing support of those who are able to help.

Keep those suggestions and offers of help coming! We've said it before and we'll say it again: FoLCs are wonderful.


Wendy, Yvonne, Sara and LabRat
the recently-augmented "Fundraising Committee"

I'm sure someone has thought of this, but let's be clear precisely what would be on this DVD/CD.

If we're talking about pure data, yes -- put it on an extra branch of some archive, give us access, then shift to the normal archive next year. For those who can't download, send a CD. Maybe it'll just be the huge trailer sizes, but are we really likely to exceed 720 MB and need a couple GB? Or are we just saying DVD because it sounds cooler?

Also consider that, last I looked, a DVD-R cost about the same as 3 or 4 CD-R. It might still be more cost efficient to burn multiple CDs rather than a DVD for data.

However, TV use was mentioned above. Be aware that if you want video-compatible DVDs, you'll have to wrestle with NTSC (the US/Japan? standard, jokingly interpreted as "Never The Same Color"), PAL (most of Europe) and SECAM (ces français dingues....). Not a clue, for the rest of the world. Also, be careful with region coding -- I'm not sure whether the DVDs bought locally would be local-region or Region 0. This might be circumvented by having the distributor be the one to transcode the videos onto the DVD in their local video standard, but there are technical hang-ups that might need to be addressed carefully.

I really feel bad cause I said I couldn't help. Cause I love reading all the stories so I feel like I should help some way. I still have Annette's address where I sent her money before. If I find out I can send some money would it be ok to send it to her. If her address has changed please send me an email.


Thanks,
Anita

Wendy, in regards to my personal email to you, I'm not so sure? Do you really think that anyone would be interested in a double chall... ,er, did I say that out loud?

Um, perhaps everyone should just forget I even posted this... yeah, that's it. I never posted this.

Tank (who never posted this)

Yep, I'm hallucinating, because I'm sure I saw something. And I'm sure that if everyone saw what I saw, they'd be quite interested, too! As much, if not more (is that possible), than I am!

Actually, you'd be surprized how much the price has come down on DVDrs. If you visit http://www.cdrdvdrmedia.com/ , which is where I buy my DVDs, you'll see the great deals they have. I prefer the GreatAZO brand that work great in all my dvd burners.

With the right software, the switch back from PAL to NTSC and vise versa can be easy. http://www.svcd2dvd.com Also, DVDs can be made to be region free; however, on the flip side, most DVD players can be hacked, via the remote control, to play all regions. I have four such DVD players.

I highly recommend the Philips DVP642 player. Amazon.com has the player for $63. Well worth the price.

Thanks!

As the winner of the Kerth Super Short story this year, I'd be more than happy to write something for your fundraiser. We're a little broke money-wise right now. We just had to replace the heat pump and put on a new roof to the tune of big bucks and plenty of stress, but I'm sure I could dig up something to send to you for your fundraiser along with the story. Let me know what sort of story you want, or do you just want to take a chance? Let me know, please.

Nan

Hey Nan

Thanks for the offer! We'd be delighted to have a story from you. Keep an eye on the boards over the next few days - we'll be posting more information about what we're looking for and deadlines and so on very soon.


The Fundraising Committee

I said I'd send a donation whether I get anything or not. I personally like Tank's idea of a download. And I'm on a dial-up. Although the laptop is WiFi and I can sneak over to McDonald's parking lot and dl it faster!
I've gotten so many years of enjoyment out of all the sites and I'd really like that to continue. Truth be told, though, I'm more a fanfic fan than a trailer fan, but that's me.
Another way to raise money might be to "auction" off a story from a favorite author. For instance, I'd pay to have Nan write a story and e-mail it to me privately first. Then after I've read it, it could go on the various sites. It would be like being a beta reader, in that you know the story before anyone else, and not having to do any work!
I think the DVD mailing thing might become a big hassle for the committee and Tank is right about people not wanting to share home addresses.
Annette seems to have delt with the technical issue of DVD compatibility.
Anyway, just my $.02.

Artemis
Offline for a few days - going to Oregon

If the video content on the DVD would be playable on a TV, I'd much prefer that option. When Anna was here a few weeks ago we watched a bunch of music videos on the television and it was so much more fun than watching on the computer! And I'm not convinced the encoding/formatting would be that much of a hassle; once you got it done once you'd just be burning copies. I'd be happy to help with that if need be.

On the other hand, if they're just going to play on a computer, a website seems just as accessible as a DVD.

The only other thought I had was that it might be fun to have a few trailers on the DVD for "coming attractions," stories that aren't out yet, the way that commercial DVDs have previews at the beginning. Maybe even for stories that would appear in next year's fundraiser incentive . Assuming anyone would want to commit to having a story ready that far in advance (and that shouldn't be misconstrued to mean I'm volunteering ).

At any rate, I think the plan on the whole sounds great. Good work, guys!
Kaylle

Coming attractions... well, maybe people could make trailers for stories/sequels that they want to see finished?

And I love the idea of auctioning off a story

PJ

Another idea to throw into the mix would be to "auction off" a music video or trailer. I'd be more than happy to let somebody tell me what song or story to vid and any clips or effects they want used. They could even beta it and we could work together till we get something they're really happy with.

~Anna

But dial up is a pain as mentioned above. I'd much rather have a dvd/cd I can load to my computer.

I'm getting in late on this discussion so if it's already been decided, then nevermind.

TEEEEEJ

Don't worry, TJ - you guys on dialup are the major reason why we wouldn't offer a download as the sole 'product'.

At the moment, we're looking at offering a choice between the DVD and a download - we haven't decided on minimum donation levels yet, but my guess is that it would be lower for the download because, of course, we have no production or shipping costs. Course, with the DVD you'll not only get a shiny disk in your hot little hand, but - we hope - some terrific cover art that one of FoLCdom's most artistically-talented people has volunteered to produce for us.

And can I say once more, on behalf of your impromptu, volunteer fundraising committee, a huge thank you to everyone who's offered to help out with this effort, in all sorts of ways. FoLCs are amazing, and we love you all.

This email confirms that you have paid amciotola@aol.com using PayPal. This credit card transaction will appear on your bill as "PAYPAL *AMCIOTOLA".


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DONE!! Gimme!!

TEEEEEJ

Whoa... It's just in the beginning stages of production right now, TJ.

Thank you so much for the donation!!

Yeah I figured that, but I'm officially in line to get my copy now .

TEEEEEEJ

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is a bad idea. You have to drop it. This idea breaks copyright laws. Even if the network does not care about the amount of stories on this site that do not hold disclaimers, they will really have a problem with you all making money off of their copyrighted material. Like, the clips used in your videos.

Then there is the RIAA, who is on a witch hunt right now. Downloading stuff is harder to find, but you all are here posting something that is being left up for all to see, making it public that you are making these dvd's and making money off of them. Does not matter if it is a fundraiser or not. You know that when money is in the mix, they will really start to care.

If the RIAA finds out you are using music from major record labels, there is going to be serious problems...

Just a heads up..

Actually, fic is legal. The fandom's been around for a long time, and TPTB have made it clear that they're aware of us. I have been assured by a corperate lawyer from a prominent NYC firm that since they haven't told us to stop in all that time, they have legally given up their right to do so.

I'm not quite as sure about vids, but I can tell you that they're fairly common in a number of fandoms and I've never heard of anyone getting into trouble over them.

Frankly, even if they could, they'd be crazy to shut this down. They'd lose our good will and hurt the fandom (particularly the members of the fandom willing to spend money)... just as they're in the process of releasing the series on DVD. If they gave us trouble over the fundraiser and/or vids, they'd only end up hurting their own sales.

In any case, as mentioned in the beginning of this thread, we've held fundraisers like this before.

As to the recording industry... They're focusing on file sharing networks and such, worrying about losing CD sales. I hardly think they're about to start bothering small communities of vidders.

(Also, for the record, there's no profit being made, since the money is going to cover the costs of site hosting, etc... That does make a difference.)

So, basically... Speaking for myself, I think we're fine. No bubbles in need of bursting here.

Paul

You all just need to be aware that including music that is recent in those videos, and basically reselling it in a video, you are leaving yourself open for possable problems.

Fanfic is not legal. It is just something that most networks over look. Not many care.

But that is not the bigger problem. The use of the music is. Anyone donating is putting themself at possable risk.

Thanks for the warning

David (who'll be donating anyway - I like to live life on the edge )

I ment donating to the dvd..

No one is donating to the DVD, DS. Or paying for it. Everyone is donating to the upkeep of the sites listed above. The DVD is a free bonus 'gift', if you will, sent to those who donate above a specific level, in appreciation of them going the extra mile, so to speak.

The funds raised are for non-profit-making websites. No one is making a profit on donations.

There is therefore no difference between posting music videos here on the mbs and putting them on a DVD and sending them to people, free of charge. Think of it, if you like, in the same way as someone taping a show from TV and then sending the tape to a friend who's never seen it and wants to, but whose TV station doesn't show it.

Or, if you will - say that a member of these mbs loves music vids, but can't see the ones posted here because they use dialup and it's too slow to dl them for viewing. Another member dls the music vids and puts them on a DVD and sends it to them, so that they can share in the fun. That's basically what's happening here, more or less.

Are these things legal? Well that's blurry. But they are traditionally accepted as something not to get all het up and bothered about by all concerned and have been for decades.


LabRat

I hope you're wrong, DS, for the reasons others have stated -- but I wanted to thank you for sharing your concern with us. You saw what looked like a disaster in the making (and I can see why you'd be concerned, now that you've pointed it out), and instead of settling back to watch the train wreck, you took the time to speak up. That's the kind of community spirit we're hoping for around here

So, whether we take your advice or not, we appreciate you offering it

PJ

Again.

Donating, as in donating their work to the dvd. If someone has issues with this idea, anyone who has their name on that disc could be liable.

We'll take our chances. But thanks for warning us. Just a question? Is there anything you do like on these boards?

Rach

Well...like Rach said, we'll take our chances.

I for one am all for it! Raising money to keep one of the best boards on the web up and running...I see no harm in that.

I've already decided on a vid and maybe this time I'll take even LONGER making it. Who knows.

Later Days!
Andie (who is all in for the Fundraising drive)

I think that's a shift from the previous point you were making, DS, rather than the same one, but let me address this one too:

Is there a risk there? Absolutely! Just as there is in every single area of fandom that everyone involved in fandoms practises daily. No more, no less than that. Strictly speaking, we could incur the wrath of the great exec gods by writing fanfic, by posting pictures from the show, by letting people know where they can dl episodes, by making music videos, by quoting dialogue in the Hangman game...the list is endless.

Most of us are fandom veterans, we've been involved in more than one fandom for many years, in some cases for decades. So you're not telling us anything we don't already know, DS. We know how it all hangs together, the legal ins and outs, the risks, such as they are, that are taken every day and the line we walk - the way the world we operate in works. And, most especially, the way that our own particular fandom works. We're fully aware of any and all risks and are capable of using our experience in fandom to evaluate which ones we should be concerned about.

So, to reiterate Pam, many thanks for the warnings, but they're really unnecessary. We understand the point you've been making very clearly, but it's not something we feel we need to worry about at this time.

LabRat

Question:

Will there be a topic set up in Folc productions so that video makers/trailer makers can help eachother out with songs or clips for this project?

I love the ideas I am reading about...amazing what happens when Folcs put their heads together.

~Lois Lane Wanna Be

Hey LLWB,

The best way to handle that would be for you - or anyone else who needs clips or other material - to start a topic yourself when you know what you need. Just list the clips you want and ask if anyone can help you. FoLCs are wonderful and I know they'll come through, especially for this project.

I have access to all of the episodes in AVI format, so if I have time at the point at which you ask I could probably help you.

And, yes, isn't it wonderful? We're getting so many excellent ideas and so many people volunteering to help out. We're really excited about it!


Wendy
Fundraising Committee - PR Division