Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Popularity and Feedback.

I supposed no feedback may not effect some and yet some gets affected by it. I give feedback as much as I can, but in another word, I have given up writing Lois and Clark. Not just lack of feedback but mostly lack of idea and esteem.

Well, I said enough. I'm going back into my corner to sulk about my other problems.

Nah, that should do, I'm sorry I hijacked this thread a bit, I had an itch I needed scratched and it was selfish of me to go this route. Still I appreciate being "heard". Thanks ya'll.

TEEEEEEEJ

For the love of cheese - what clique!!??!! - someone please e-mail me and shine some light one me.

(as you can see I read more)

Sometimes I feel left out and not part of the bigger LnC picture b/c I don't make vids, talk on IRC or write, but that is just my stupid part of my brain bringing me down. Well I think it is anyways. I try and ignore that degenerative part of me.

When I read some posts (FDK or not), I feel kinda of pathetic. I guess that feeling resulsts from the way people 'talk'. I try to chalk it up to 'it's just me', but sometimes it doesn't work. Some pple I feel write a certain way like they are talking to a child or a student that is waisting a teacher's time. When I interpret stuff that way, then I feel left out. At work we are very careful in how we send our e-mails b/c we have to watch out that we do not come off that way even though it is in none of our personalities to act that way. It's almost obsessive how careful we all are. Weird accountants.

Ok that is confusing.

MDL:
Oh, and I can see how feedback can be addictive!!!!


Chief Pam

Meeeeeeee too. Sometimes I wish I could talk and the computer would type my words. Sigh.

Wendy

I feel this way frequently.

Yes. I even feel bad about the quality of the post I'm leaving right now.

Aria

Exactly.

It's just sad when a clique gets mean - like the Plastics in Mean Girls. I havn't seen that here.

Yeah I see one or two authors almost ignored, but I think it is so b/c they lash out and people get confused over what they desire from the rest of the gang in folcdom. So instead of saying anything they back away slowly. I'm not saying you Teeeeej!

All I can say people are just too sensitive, myself included. But I don't let it out and I never really have a strong opinion and I unfortunately *can* see everyone else's views. It's just sad that there are those who are out there.


Me too.

Gee I gotta go.

later ma peeps :p

p.s. Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeej - I alway thought of you as one of the pple in the 'in' crowd. - always in the known about the low-down.


edit - huh?

I'm not an American so I can't be either. Even if I was I dislike both and I still don't understand why there are *usually* only two choices - bleah....yes I studied American gov't and history. We have to in Cda.

Y'know, I think what we need is a catchy acronym or phrase that people can use that means "Yes, I'm reading (watching) this, and I'm enjoying it, so keep up the good work, but I can't think of anything original to say."

yirtaieiskutgwbictoaots? Seems a bit... bulky...

WMPM, pronounced "wom-pom" for "write more, post more"?

So when you've got no time or no inspiration, you can just post and type those few letters, just to let the author know you're there...

PJ

hehe. I like that.

Makes me think of wampum... which, I guess, is fitting. "For this fic, I shall give you wampum!"

Still giggling!

<giggle> can I borrow your rose colored glasses Roo?

TEEEEEEJ

Thank you, Yvonne. I love the fact that you refer to me as a popular writer - although I’m not exactly sure that’s true, especially compared to someone like you . But I’ll tuck that comment away as a little bit of encouragement to use the next time I’m wondering why I write LnC fic .

But you’re right. I do get some feedback by email on my stories - and I cherish every single email I get on a story whether it’s sent the day after a story is posted or three years later. I agree with those who say that feedback is addictive. But I seldom get any feedback on these boards. And because I don’t hang out on IRC, I don’t get feedback there. At times that leaves me wondering if people are even reading what I write - let alone whether or not they liked something I wrote.

But the reasons I don’t post WIPs (at least usually) are 1/ when I write, I have no outline and so don’t know where the story is going. That means I have to write the whole story before I know if the first part of my story will end up working when I finally get to the end or if it will need to be changed. I don’t even know if I will be able to find an ending. I have dozens of uncompleted stories on my hard drive. So I can’t post as I write. And then 2/ when I finally am ready to post, it tends to be less nerve-wracking if I send it to the archives because I’m always so nervous about letting people see a story that it’s usually just easier to get it over with in one swoop .

I also don’t post feedback on the boards because I don’t read stories on the boards. There are two reasons for this: 1/ I don’t read stories in parts because if I like a story, I don’t have the patience to wait until the person posts the next part and 2/ I’ve decided that I’m a jinx. If I start reading a story in parts, the person’s muse usually decides to take a powder (I think the muse god hates me ). So it’s a good thing that I don’t read fics in parts - otherwise none of them would ever get finished .

One thing I have noticed, however, is that the amount of feedback I receive on stories has declined since I first started writing. Maybe that’s because at first, people were trying to encourage a new author. Maybe people just aren’t sending feedback as much any more. Or maybe people aren’t enjoying my stories as much. I don’t know if others have noticed a decline in the inclination to send email or not - but that’s my experience.

Would I keep writing if I didn't get any feedback? Yes. Absolutely. I write because... well, I can't not write anymore. But would I write and post LnC fic if I didn't get any feedback? I'm not sure. It's an interesting question. I do know it would sure get discouraging fast.

MLT Said...
There could be another reason for the drop in feedback from Archived stories. Maybe they aren't being read...

Now, before the cyber-tomatos fly, let me explain that. I no longer read stories from the archive unless I am directed to them from these boards.

I find it much easier to pop in, see if anything I am reading has a new installment and pop out. I have gotten out of the habit of going to the archive to see what is new.

And even when I do, I rarely send FDK by email. FDKing by section seems easier than trying to FDK an entire story.

I can't even tell you the last time I went to the Archive to look at What's New. The last time I visited was to download all of Nan's Dagger series to refresh my memory for her latest installment for that series(210 pages Arial 8pt font, four columns, maxed margins!)

So, that is another possibility.

James

Not being a Republican , I think that if I read something the least I can do is give the writer feedback. My posts are not always 'Wow! That was wonderful!' and I think that my honest feedback has irritated a couple of the authors but I figure they should be glad to know someone was interested enough in their idea to read the work and comment on it.

That's an interesting point about honest feedback, Ethnica. When you're the author of a story, it's very difficult to stand back and remain detached when someone's posted something critical. Now, I'm not saying here that no-one should ever post any critical comments - quite the opposite. It's just that I've noticed this with myself a couple of times. Someone will post something quite critical - disagreeing strongly with a plot choice, questioning a character's behaviour or something - and, much as I like to think that I'm a grown-up and capable of taking it on the chin, I can get defensive. :p

And then, a few months later, I can read the same feedback thread and think: this is what I got so upset about? And I can realise that the poster actually had a point, even if I don't fully agree, or I'll realise that I over-reacted in my defensiveness.

So let's call that first response a knee-jerk reaction, Ethnica. Sometimes constructive criticism is very easy to take - sometimes it makes us slap ourselves on the forehead and exclaim, Why didn't I see that? And at other times it just makes us run for cover. Why? Because we're all human. But, please, carry on being constructively critical!


Wendy

ML, I'd definitely say you're a popular writer, with good reason! I have thoroughly enjoyed every one of your stories that I've read.

Unfortunately, I find, for some strange reason, that I'm intimidated by longer stories. I happily go to the library and check out and slowly read books which are 400 or more page long, yet 100 pages of fic on a computer screen is daunting to me. Printing would probably help with that psychological barrier, but then I'd have to feel guilty about using up all those pages...

That's why I like reading on the boards. I can read in small chunks. Far less intimidating.

Obviously, that's just me. I don't think, however, that James and I are alone in doing our primary reading on the boards.

Now, reading on the boards doesn't work well for you. That's fine. Yet another reason we should be glad the archive exists.

I don't think that's a good reason, however, to cut yourself off from a chunk of your potential audience.

I'll tell you for myself that I've often been disappointed that you don't choose to post your fics here. I love reading them, and it would be a lot easier for me to do so in this format. I keep telling myself I have to go to the Archive to read them (and a whole bunch of others), but somehow, even though I know I'd enjoy it, I just never get around to doing so. Heck, I still need to finish Lifeflight. I was really into the first half of it before RL forced me to drop off the face of the boards.

Anyway...

The reasons you list for not posting on the boards are:

1. You're not ready to start posting until you've already finished the story.

That's fine. Think of us as Gamma Readers. Finish the story, then start posting in chunks. It works. Trust me. I'm fairly sure there are other authors who do the same. You'll get feedback on each part, and maybe someone will say something that will spark a new thought and you'll find yourself with an even better story. I've seen that happen, too. Most recently, I saw it happen in CC's In a Better Place, where reader discussion picked up a minor plot hole, and patching that hole gave CC an opportunity to create a very cool moment of characterization. I've also seen cases of "wow, this is great, but wouldn't it be even better if..."

2. You're nervous about getting (or not getting) feedback.

Well, this takes us right back to the topic of this thread. My reading and posting habits are based largely on quality. I'll read a story if I like it, and I'll post if I really like it. I'm more likely to post if I have something original to say (I hate "me too" posts. Even though I know saying something is better than saying nothing at all, it's still a barrier I have to overcome before I'm willing and ready to post), but "how good is the story?" is the biggest factor to me.

Now, whether or not I've enjoyed an author's work and style before does influence my decisions on whether or not to try a new story. Subject matter counts, too. Yvonne is one of the best writers in the fandom in terms of quality, but I simply don't like reading tearjerkers. There's enough pain in RL for me that I look for my leisure reading to be of a generally happier tone. So, knowing that I appreciate Yvonne's quality of writing, I'll be more likely to give her stories a look. Knowing that she tends to write stories which deal with subjects I find less than pleasant means that I'm also more ready to pass them up after giving them a try.

Going briefly back to ML in specific, I can say that I honestly don't think FDK would be a problem for you. If you don't believe me, let me point out the number of ribbons below your name on the archive, and that's with the reduced readership from not posting on the boards.

Now, I'm not saying you have to post here. If you're really not comfortable with it, that's your decision. I think, though, that if you gave it a try, you'd be pleasantly surprised. I, for one, would like to see it happen.

Back to the subject of the thread... Actually, I think everything I wanted to say has been said by someone else. (Which is, in part, why I hadn't posted ealier.) It's about the story first and foremost. Quality, style, content. If I like it, I'll read it. If I have something to say, I'll say it. (Though less so if that something is negative or has already been said.) If I don't like something, I'll stop reading. If I don't like the author, I'll admit that that knowledge can color my perceptions of the story. Ideally, it shouldn't, but I'm not perfect. Fortunately, there aren't many FoLCs whom I dislike.

Paul, posting from what appears to be the fringes of the "in crowd"

James and Paul, thanks for your comments. I'll consider posting my next story in parts. No promises. But I'll consider it.

Paul, it's not a concern about feedback that prevents me from posting in parts. I figure one or two people will probably enjoy my stories enough to post feedback. It's because I tend to get feeling sick to my stomach from the time I hear from Labby that my story has been sent for posting until about a week after it comes out. If I post on the boards, the sick feeling lasts that much longer .

I should also say a word about videos and trailers. I've loved the few I've seen. But I'm on dial-up (too cheap to pay for highspeed ), as a result, it takes a long time to download videos and trailers. So I seldom watch them. I know I'm missing a lot as a result. But I guess that's one of the disadvantages of being cheap .

James said:

Not going to lob tomatoes at you, James. But I do think stories on the archive are being read.

The archive home page gets more than 500 unique visitors daily, and on Sunday, the traditional update day, the count spikes close to 800. For those curious there's a free stats package tracking visits to the home page, and you can check out the numbers yourself. (Scroll to the bottom of the archive home page and click on the globe icon.)

A poll we did in 2002 asked archive visitors what other things they did online related to Lois & Clark. Options included things like "Visit other Lois & Clark fanfic Web sites" and "Participate in LnC fanfic message board discussions." Out of 1,121 responses, 252 said they visited other fanfic sites, and only 101 said they participated in fanfic message board discussions.

It's been three years, so those numbers probably don't accurately reflect the current archive readership, but I think the poll does show that most archive readers are lurkers. And unless they've ventured into message board threads like this one, they probably haven't digested how important feedback is to writers. And of those who do know, maybe they have very good intentions of sending feedback, but bad follow-through. (Nervous cough)

I just logged into the archive's server and downloaded this month's raw log file -- which is 89 megabytes and growing -- to poke around in. Among other things, the log file shows how many times each file on the archive has been accessed. Because of its size, I hardly ever look at it. (And my computer, which likes to hang onto as many of its system resources as possible, thanks me.)

So, are ML Thompson's archived stories being read? Drumroll, please.

So far this month, "Curiosity Killed the Reporter" has been accessed 690 times. And her "Cause and Effect" (one of my all-time faves!) more than 80 times. I was going to look up some more stories and authors, but my computer threw in the towel and demanded a reboot.

Lurkers read. A lot! And they must really like what they read because they KEEP ... COMING ... BACK. They love the stories but end up neglecting to send feedback, for whatever reason, even though they may have good intentions of doing so. As one of the most well-intentioned lurkers (and worst feedback-givers) around, I can say that with some conviction -- and a lot of embarrassment.

I hope authors aren't getting discouraged, thinking that they're pitching their stories out into the void, because that's not the case. 89 megabytes and my gasping system resources are begging to differ.

Maybe what we need is some kind of Feedback Amnesty Day.

Best wishes,

-- Lauren

ROTFL, Lauren. And wow! Even I didn't realise that many people read the Archive stories. I mean I knew they were being read, but...690?!

Holy cow!

LabRat

690 times? Wow! I guess one or two people are reading my story. It's also amazing to think that a story that is several years old is still being accessed 80 times a month. That's really encouraging, Lauren. Thanks for the information.

I do remember back before I ever posted my first story, back when I was an official lurker, reading on the top of some stories: 'feedback welcome' and thinking to myself: 'what could I possibly say that this great author would want to hear? I'm nobody.' And so it went until after I got my first feedback . Funny how your perspective can change .

REM

Reading, Enjoying -- MORE!

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

REM... I like that! Thanks, twin!

PJ