Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Cheating.

Hi FoLCs

For my next story, I'm thinking about the concept of cheating. It would really help me if you could answer these questions concerning our favorite characters.

Another question that I forgot to put on the poll is that if you would like to read about this complicated concept in a fanfic story.

Thanks a lot.

MDL. ( as usual).

When you said 'cheating', Erica, I thought you meant using underhand means to pass an exam or something like that! Infidelity... hmm. Now, I've seen stories where Clark, say, has been married to someone else and been tempted or actually been unfaithful. But either Lois or Clark being unfaithful to each other... I didn't even like it when I read a story where each was unfaithful with an alternate counterpart.

It's not the infidelity per se; it's the thought of Lois being unfaithful to Clark or vice versa. And so I had to answer 'other' to both your questions about consequences: since I couldn't envisage one being unfaithful to the other, I couldn't envisage consequences.

Interesting poll... I wonder what the responses will be!


Wendy

The worst thing about a cheating spouse is, even when all is said and done, forgiven so to speak, everything that happens afterward is tainted by that event, every movie you see, every place you visit, every family gathering where everybody knows what happened, but nobody says anything. And anytime you're intimate afterwards you wonder to yourself, if he's thinking about her or if he'd rather not be with you at all, but I think this would affect a woman more than a man.

Clark would be more understanding of Lois because of his save the world "lifestyle" would be a lot of pressure on a marriage, (like in "Seven Year Itch" on the archives)

I would have a hard time swallowing the fact that Clark would cheat on Lois because he has depended on her so much and he's too smart to destroy a good thing, so whoever wrote it had better be good at the craft for me to believe it.

TEEEEEEJ

I think one of the reasons Lois and Clark has such a loyal fan base is because it's the fantasy of a love being cherished by both parties. OTOH cheating means a person looks someone who loves them in the eyes and lies to them, takes something that should be intimate and special and cheapens it. It would hard to imagine either Lois or Clark committing that type of betrayal but if I had to choose one or the other, I don't think the Lois of 'Lois and Clarks' would do it but I could see it of the Clark of 'Meet the Presses'.

It's a gutsy premise. If you write it I'll read it.

I said 'depends' for both Lois and Clark cheating. But by that, I didn't mean 'yes.' I don't see either consciously cheating.

However, let's say there's a story where Lois and Clark are married. Lois loses her memory - has absolutely no memory of Clark. Clark doesn't know where she is. Lois starts a new life, meets a nice guy and gets involved with him. Then Clark finds her. That would technically be cheating, but I could probably buy that story if it were written well. (Of course, the author would have to get past the nagging doubts Lois might have in that situation).

For Clark, the above wouldn't work for me. I don't see him wanting any woman but Lois. If she weren't there, I see him as not being with anyone else - even if he didn't remember Lois. (Of course, that's a personal opinion and I'm not entirely sure why I think that). On the other hand, if he were affected by... let's say purple kryptonite which made him hallucinate so badly that he thought the woman was Lois... Maybe that is a situation where I could see it happening.

So is either of those a 'yes'? Not really.

Having said that, I suppose I would have to see the story to decide if I could buy the premise of either cheating on the other.

ML

Ditto to everything that ML said. I put 'it depends' on most of the questions. I think that a good writer might be able to pull it off, but it would have to be some sort of memory loss or purple kryptonite or something. I really couldn't see either of them cheating on the other one out of anger.

~Anna

...Nope. I just couldn't see it happening.

I'm horribly, horribly cynical when it comes to love. I think all of that soulmate business and Mr./Mrs. Right is a load of crap. But there's just something about Lois and Clark... Now I'm not saying that left to their own devices by themselves they'd never be with anyone else. Far from it. I've loved the fanfic that has explored such topics, like The Butterfly Legacy, to pull a name off the top of my head. But when Lois and Clark actually get together and make it into a real relationship...I could certainly see extenuating circumstances break them apart, but not infidelity as the shipwrecker.

JD

I absolutely couldn't see either of them cheating on the other, and I probably wouldn't read such a story, because it really wouldn't be Lois and Clark. It would be two other people with the same names.

Nan

Ditto here, Nan.

We're talking about Lois and Clark 'cheating' on each other, right? Willfully and consciously? No way!

And that, IMO, also goes for Loises and Clarks in other universes - their circumstances may vary, but the core characters should pretty much be the same.

As it is, there are already too many stories in the L&C Archive about people named 'Lois and Clark' and those have absolutely nothing to do with the couple we watched in the series and came to love so much. :rolleyes:

Ursie

I find it hard to see them cheating on each other. Very hard. I'm sure that somebody out there could convince me, though, if it were written well enough.

Another thing to keep in mind is whether we're considering this with Alt-Chars, or with Canon Chars. Because specifically in canon, I find it even harder to imagine. I think you would have to change something fundamental about the characters, like Yvonne has done with her current WIP, to make it work, and still that's not them cheating on *each other*.

That being said, if it did happen, I definitely see Clark being far more forgiving about said act than Lois would be. I imagine Lois asking for a divorce, whereas I imagine Clark being able to rationalize (mostly because of what I perceive to be his chronic optimism) and forgive.

Ditto Ethnica and I'm with Nan... consciously cheating? (as opposed to a horrible mistake like in ML's examples) Nope, not in my L&C fantasy world.

Now, I do believe marriages can survive infidelity, because I've got friends who've managed it -- but it took a lot of time and strong faith in God. The process is something I never want to get close to going through, and I don't want to read about it, either.

PJ

It's hard to vote, but I'll give you my two cents:

Do I see them cheating on each other? No, not really.
But then again, did I see Clark as a drug-addict? No... not before I read Addicted. Granted, it was Alt-Clark, but still.

I guess this means that I'm willing to take a look at something drastically different, as long as it's properly justified and well-written.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Well, I answered 'other' for every single question because life is never as clear-cut as this. I'd need more information about the circumstances before I could make a choice.

That said, 'our' Lois being unfaithful to 'our' Clark or vice versa is extremely unlikely, IMO. You'd have a very hard job convincing me to buy your scenario, however convoluted it was. Heck, I have a hard time accepting altClark being unfaithful to Lana, and I'm writing the darned story!

Yvonne

If I would like to read about this complicated concept in a fanfic story ?

Yes, definitely, I will read that. It's seems to me a very interesting concept to explore for Lois and Clark, because it will be the ultimate test for their love. It will be, more than likely, the most difficult thing to go through for them.

So yes, I'm definitely interesred in this story. Please, write it.

I voted no on either of them cheating. With Lois' background, she'd be violently opposed to it. Clark, considering he waited so long to become a not-very patient man, wouldn't just fall into an affair or into bed with someone else. As far as the consequences go in that extremely unlikely situation, it still goes back to background. Watch Mad Dog Lane come back three-fold, and goodness only knows what Clark would do.

As far as whether or not I think marriage can survive cheating.. well, I've already told my husband that it's grounds for castration. No doctors involved.

Ditto Pam and Nan & others.

I'm part of a Christian Men's group and I know from one of the other members the devistation that cheating has brought to their marriage and our group. (and for the record it him cheating on her)

That was over a year ago. They are working it out, with much prayer and counsuling.

The other members support him as best we can and we hold him accountable on a weekly basis. To say that it has totally changed the dynamics of the group would be an understatement. No more wishy-washy answers are allowed!

I know the issues on both sides that lead to this problem and I just can't envision any possible way that Lois or Clark could knowingly cheat on each other.

Also, after the last year, I would have absolutely NO desire to read such a fic, no matter how well it was written.

James

Fascinating poll, Erica!!

Can marriages survive cheating? As far as I'm concerned, they can't. I don't think I could ever forgive a man who cheated on me. I couldn't ever trust him again.

Would Clark cheat on Lois or Lois cheat on Clark? After they're married, I have a very hard time seeing that happening, but then again, I tend to think that anything is possible as long as you give your story and your characters the right motivation and that you explore your premise thoroughly and seriously, without taking shortcuts or rushing through the issues. Certainly I'd be willing to read such a story. I'd probably challenge you on a lot of things, because it's hard for me to reconcile the idea of Lois and Clark's love with the idea of cheating. But I'm willing to be convinced, as hard as it would be.

I do think that it would be much harder for Lois to forgive infidelity than it would be for Clark. Lois has been burnt too many times. If Clark cheated on her, she'd probably never forgive him. Certainly, if either of them cheated on the other, nothing would be the same again between them.

Kaethel

I agree with Kaethel. Personally, I don't think marriages can survive cheating. I don't see Lois & Clark ever cheating on each other but I would read a fic about it.

I almost didn't respond to this poll, MDL, because just the idea made me so sick. So, no, if you wrote a story about this topic, I would never read it. Lois and Clark would never consciously cheat on each other, not the characters who grew up as they did: Lois seeing the effects on her family of her father's cheating and experiencing it in a variety of ways with her boyfriends; and Clark waiting for 30 years for the woman whom he could trust with everything before being sexually intimate. There is no way, with those two people, that you could come up with a scenario that would justify cheating, any more than you could come up with a scenario in which I would commit 1st degree murder.

Which brings me to what Kaethel said: "I tend to think that anything is possible as long as you give your story and your characters the right motivation and that you explore your premise thoroughly and seriously, without taking shortcuts or rushing through the issues."

This idea is brought up frequently in one of the writers' groups I belong to, but what all the published writers who espouse this point of view are saying is that you can design characters with the right motivation to do almost anything. But they also say that you have to treat your characters like real people, in that you can't force them to do something against their nature. So when you have a story idea that takes a certain kind of person, then create that type of person for that story. Don't start with a person you've created (or in this case, that has already been created) and try to mold him/her into doing something s/he wouldn't do. It won't work and your audience will sense immediately that you (the author) are lying.

So, have you given thought to writing a Jimmy-and-Lucy-get-married-and-one-of-them-cheats-on-the-other story if you want to explore that issue?

I agree with you on a lot of this -- I could maybe buy an alt-Situation. I forget the name, but I've seen an extremely well-done fic in which Lois came to believe that Clark was cheating on her.... That was also interesting and permitted the exploration of the emotional ramifications without destroying the characterization.

But with regard to Lois's past experiences in particular, you raise a very interesting question. Not specifically with regard to cheating but to anything parents have done that is unacceptable. Lois was hurt by her father's affairs and the divorce; that was, however, also the only parental example she's had.

I've seen children coming from a family of abuse or divorce or financial stupidity go on to commit precisely the same mistakes even though they knew it was a bad idea. I've also seen children from the same situation dedicate themselves to NOT repeating the mistakes of their parents. What makes the deciding factor between the two?

With regard to this fic idea, I would say the question might be more applicable if Ellen had cheated on Sam rather than the other way around; even so, I might buy it. I would certainly see it as easy for Lois to slip into an "All men are this way!" mindset in the (highly unlikely) event of Clark's infidelity. Whether she went thence to "...so I won't have better luck elsewhere," or to "...but I will not be my mother!" I couldn't say.

My sweetheart and I had a discussion once about whether there is anything that justifies an affair. Obviously, exclude memory-loss and such as there's no way for the person to know they have vows to betray. Basically, our conclusion was that a couple's wedding vows are "forsaking all others as long as we both shall live." It's not a conditional "forsaking all others as long as they can't offer me something I'm not getting from you." There are legitimate reasons for divorce; none that I've ever heard for an affair.

As far as the on-topic question goes, would I read such a story? Yes. Would I like it? You'd have to do it really well to convince me, but I'm willing to be convinced if you can give me a believable scenario. I think an affair is definitely wrong under any circumstances -- but I also think that Lois and Clark are good, not perfect. It's just that I can't think of a scenario I'd believe. Sure, give it a shot!

Oh, where do I start to disagree with this.

I've stated my pov on the 'you can make your characters do anything' before, so I won't reiteriate it here. Aren't you all glad?

Suffice to say, that it's not necessarily being false to the characters or your audience to do so. Provided it's properly done, it's just as valid a story and use of the characters as any other premise.

Whether it suits a particular reader's tastes is quite another kettle of fish, of course. But because one reader (or many) doesn't like a premise doesn't make the premise itself necessarily invalid.

We all accept that, generally speaking, there are certain things Lois and/or Clark will not do, in the normal course of things. However, there are always circumstances which will change that and it's perfectly legitmate, imo, for authors to explore those avenues if they wish.

As always with fandoms, for every author who won't accept the premise - whether it's done logically and well or not - there will be another who will. So reader biases shouldn't influence an author too much if they want to explore the theme. There will also be readers who will be won over to the premise who never thought they could (if it's properly presented) - how often have we seen that in comments folders?

I believe that I could very easily produce circumstances that would have Clark and/or Lois cheating on one another. With SF it's much easier to do than most genres, because you can use a variety of 'magic' and outside influences to twist them onto that path. None of which would work at all in most other genres. If you accept that a weird Indian can swap Clark's body with Tim Tomerson is it really that much of a stretch to imagine he could subvert Clark's mind to commit adultery?

I don't have an inclination to write such a story, but I wish good luck to any who do want to tackle it. And if you provide a good and logical enough basis for the actions, I'll even read it and be amazed at your inventiveness.


LabRat

Interesting, Labrat, because I see that as being in the same basic category as amnesia, etc. In other words, Clark wouldn't be consciously choosing to commit adultery and violate his wedding vows. So for me, outside influences like that are only high-powered forms of duress that still can't affect the personal choices of existing characters.

If the definition of cheating is having sex with someone other than your spouse, then no "marriage" will not survive. What I mean by "marriage" is that I do not believe that the trust can ever, ever be truly regained. The doubt is always there in the back of the mind. If they are late, what are they doing. If they aren't interested in making love, are they getting it from someone else. The list of doubts goes on and on.

Also from experience through people I know, once someone has cheated it is easier to cheat again. I've known of people who have wound up divorced after 25 years - from the first time cheating - only to have the second marriage end for cheating also.

I have never understood how woman can marry a man who cheated on his previous wife with her. They always quote the guys line of her faults. In the several cases I know they cheat on the new wife or husband.

With Lois's background if Clark cheated on her she would never speak to him again after she castrated him with a bladed coated in Kryptonite. I don't see Clark cheating considering he waited to be sexually involved with a woman until she knew his "secret". I can't see that changing now. Also he is very aware of Lois's past and I can't see him doing that to her. Cheating for both of them is so far out of the realm of their character - in the show - that it is not a plausible story line - imo.

Now if you we were to take an example from Desperate Housewives where Evie confronts Marcia Cross character (drawing blank on chracters name) she accused her of cheating because of the emotional relationship she has with George. The talking and sharing they were doing without her husband knowing.

If you want to count that as cheating as Evie does in DH then I would say that maybe Lois would be the one. Clark is not really able to share with anyone who doesn't know the "secret". However, Lois could turn to someone as she did in the series with Daniel Scardino. It could be "innocent" in the sense that there is no intention of sex on her part but the need for compaionship - as in Desperate Housewives.

In this case I can see Clark forgiving Lois if she stops the relationship. He would feel bad that she felt she wasn't getting the emotional support from him and I could see him making adjustments in Superman's life. Again this is my opinion based on the fact that I would kill a guy who cheated on me - very slowly with unimagible pain involved.

But what if Clark were experiencing the other type of cheating, the emotional withdrawal from their established relationship and the transfering of feelings to someone else? Except for the idiotic Clark of 'Meet the Presses' I can't see how Clark could possibly cheat on Lois unless he felt a 'soulmate' connection to someone else. After that episode I've always had doubts about his true feelings. Once he left Lois downstairs I found it possible to believe his love is not quite as deep or as real as we'd been led to believe. In fact, once they got married he didn't seem 1/25th as into her as he had been prior to the wedding.

If Clark thought he had found 'another' soulmate wouldn't that devastate Lois as much as any physical cheating would? IMHO the accompanying emotional 'cheating' would be even worse than the physical act of adultery(although that definitely deserves some type of corrective surgery involving kitchen utensils). It would be a total rejection and betrayal - he's not with his lover(only) because of lust; he's with her because he just prefers her.

I think if either has an affair it would have to be because they think they're in love, not just to scratch an itch.

As opposed to me, where is IS about the infidelity, regardless of whether it is Lois/Clark cheating with the other or on them.

It is one of the few things that will make me stop reading a story that I have been enjoying by an author I love. Not always; depends on exactly how it's handled.

And at least one story I read didn't quite cross my "personal comfort line" until almost the very end of the story. So I finished it, but am now much more hesitant about their stories.