Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Do we need to take Christ out of Christmas?

No, because for us the word 'holiday' only means what you call a vacation. So I go on holiday, or I have a holiday from work. That's all. We don't call festive or holy times of year 'holidays' - shudder.


Wendy

Well, I had tried to reply earlier, but my reply wouldn't come out as I wanted. Basically (given that in my country Christianity has played a major role in our history - if you want details, just ask - and that I am an Orthodox Christian), I believe that the celebrations should depend on the existing laws on religion: If the country is considered a 'Christian' country, then Christian holidays should be holidays. Same goes for Islamic countries etc.. That said, individuals can get their own holidays. A shop owner might choose not to operate their shop during a day they consider a holiday. I suppose that a clerk can ask for a one-day vacation from their boss (or, hell, call in sick for once! ) As for decorations and stuff, I believe everyone should do as they wish, but the officials must have drawn a line and act according to it, keeping into consideration the beliefs of the citizens.

Also, some said that they don't regard Christmas as a Christian holiday, but rather like a season when they can celebrate love etc.. If you have a holiday from work anyway, sure, why not celebrate? Besides, with the new year and all, it's logical. But then it's not *Christmas*, right? It's just 'the holidays' or something to that effect, and it sounds absurd to me that an atheist, for example, would celebrate Christmas meaning that they'd exchange gifts and would have a party, without anything related to Christ.

I'm sure this didn't come out as I wanted. Whatever. I tried.

One more thing I noticed:

We Orthodoxes believe that the early Christians were Orthodoxes and that the Catholics have altered the original Christian faith. Not trying to start a fight here, just thought that you'd like to keep this in mind for future reference, Laura. A perfect example of how everyone thinks they're right and that the 'others' are wrong.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Yeah, I'm going to bore on about this, too <g>. See, 'the holidays' is a phrase that just doesn't exist in colloquial British English, so your question doesn't resonate with us cranky, nitpicking Brits . In fact, maybe I need a clarification. Does 'the holidays' only refer to Christmas? Can Easter be 'the holidays'? Can you wish someone 'Happy Holidays' and mean either 'Happy Christmas' or 'Happy Easter'? What about a day like 4th July or Thanksgiving?

Yvonne

Any recognized day when business offices are closed are official holidays, to Americans. This includes 4th of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, and Thanksgiving. Easter, itself, isn't a business holiday, but it's a holiday all the same.

"Happy Holidays" refers to the December season lasting from Thankgiving-ish or Hannukah (insert your spelling here) all the way to New Years Day, and slightly beyond for those celebrating Twelfth Night and other early January holidays. At least, in my thinking.

Yes, it is Christmas. It's just a secular Christmas - ie, you celebrate certain aspects of the religious festival because you respect and agree with the spirit they seek to embrace. This is what my Christian parents gave to me, and for which I'm very grateful: I live by many Christian values even though I'm an aetheist, because I believe they're generally a good way to live a life that's courteous, generous of spirit, and respectful of other people's beliefs and values.

So I reserve the right to celebrate Christmas and call it Christmas, even though I don't believe in the Christmas story. Heck, I can even sing Christmas carols with conviction, because the tunes and harmony are so wonderful - Christmas has inspired some truly great compositions and arrangements over the years.

Yvonne

Well, Yvonne...

Guess Karen beat me to it :p

The plural of holiday, to my knowledge, only comes about during the end of the year known as the "holiday season." I'm guessing because there are a few holidays in a row -- Thanksgiving (which I've had trouble understanding with all the controversy of "indian" and the "white man"... to put it simply and unpolitically correct ), Christmas, and New Year's. I guess one might even throw Halloween in there too. Other days such as Veteran's Day (my birthday

PS - Found this... but it's not what I would call a "reliable" source <g>:

Tried the google thing and haven't found anything yet... I'll let you know if I do.

Doesn't seem at all absurd to this atheist/agnostic.

Despite my mother ensuring I had full access to Christian learning and activities when I was a child, it just never 'took'. From my earliest memories I can remember knowing this was not for me. So, as I grew up, I never really associated Christmas with Christ. More with elements of the pagan winter festival on which Christians based Christmas and just a general sense of peace and goodwill to all and the embracing of family. All notions which I've never considered exclusive to any religion.

So it tends to make perfect sense to me.

LabRat

Okay, time for the weird 4am garble to come out of my mouth, so this may only make sense to me. Here's what I've noticed in my town, and here's what I think Christmas is about.

Even as a Christian, honestly I've never seen a lot of Christ in this holiday to begin with. I mean, yeah, I went to mass on Christmas Eve, and the little school kids acted out the story of Jesus' birth. It was adorable of course and put me in the holiday spirit. (There was this kid who played the star, and his face poked out of this yellow star-shaped monstrosity as big as him...so cute!) There's of course the usual Christian decorations, too...nativity scenes, Advent wreaths, etc. But anyway...that's about all I see as far as Christ goes. It's not like I'm even seeing extra church stuff going on they way we do with Easter. Leading up to Easter, there's extra masses, more opportunities for sacraments, and more community involvement. So when I'm not even seeing anything worthwhile in my own church about Christmas, I don't particularly see a reason to whine and complain when the government won't let me...put up a nativity scene inside the Post Office, to have an example throughout this post.

Random thought: Isn't Christmas originally a pagan holiday anyway or something? Or at least some traditions stem from paganism. It's not like we made this stuff up from scratch.

So I suppose this just isn't that important of a Christian celebration for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing it at all. It just doesn't rank first for me as far as Christian stuff goes. (Nor does it rank last.) And I think Christmas is whatever you make of it. If you personally don't feel like there's enough Christ in this holiday season, there's plenty you can do on your own or with others without stuffing it down everyone's throats. Community service, a special prayer with loved ones on Christmas day, whatever you can think of. When we all start arguing over whether or not I can put up my nativity scene inside the Post Office...it's just a nativity scene, and I wouldn't whine about it to begin with...for me personally, I see a lot more to Christmas than just some cardboard decorations we all fight over. I understand completely that this is an important holy day for some people who want to shout it from the rooftops and decorate like the Griswolds (National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation...hilarious movie), but...tough. Not everyone's Christian, and we need to respect that.

Easter's the most important Christian day anyway for me. As long as Christ stays there, I'm happy.

Peace,
Jen

That's funny, considering the song "Happy Holidays" was written by Irving Berlin more than 50 years ago.

I never knew that. I'm *suppose* to be Anglican, but religion is not part of my life. I've gone years w/o even thinking of it. I know they have churches here w/ both stuff in the title, but I never knew they were the same!

I've read, watch the documentaries, read discussions, done the academic thing (yes I cannot spell even though!) and I'm familiar with the whole issue. I don't want anything to change and it is fun that everyone celebrates it in their own way. I get a sad though when some people think it should be one way and that's it and everyone else should just suck it up. It is a sad that many cultures where lost and ended up sort of being mixed up for various reasons, but at least now we realize *some* of those cultures that are now gone have left a bit of their mark during the winter season.


LINK - Hope it is somewhat accurate.

Since I am uncomfortable with religion - for me it is all about the chocolate, bunnies and sort of a celebration of the warmer months yet to come.

I understand the religious significance, but I'd feel wrong celebrating the regligion I am not apart of, feel uncomfortable with, and not believe in. I would also be sad if people where told they could not celebrate their religious Easter.

For me, I go to my Mother-in-Laws and my Grandparents for a bite to eat. My Mum in law will go to Church (like every other Sunday - RCath.) and bug her son's to come and well they won't. While I just get hyper on my chocolate and look out the window for the white bunny that my Mum always said came. (It happened three times when I was little and now it is a joke that he comes every year).

Hey...where did my other post go? I put one up about Xmas. Geesh I'm loosing it!

EDIT - weird...it is there now! (I wanted to put this w/ that one. Oh well)

Target has always had a "no solicitors" policy, which the SA was the sole exception to. However, they were getting complaints from other groups, so they decided to apply the policy to everyone equally.

From the horse\'s mouth