Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Evolution

This post is for the one who believe in evolution only.

Being strongly attanched to my religion and to God, I do not believe in evolution. Assuming I did, though, becoming like Superman can't be because if you think about it, any theories about the evolution did not point out developement of special abilities (except basic ones like speaking and walking upright). So I wouldn't think this is possible.

Just to clarify this post from someone who both believes in evolution and believes in God, evolution and God are not mutually exclusive. Beacause you believe in evolution DOES NOT mean that you are an athiest in any sense of the word! There are many different interpretations of the bible. Not all of us believe it literally.

The Pope\'s View on Evolution
Catholics and evolution

The following information is from this website (I thought the whole article was really interesting
2. Evolution and Religion
Q1. Doesn't evolution contradict religion?

Not always. Certainly it contradicts a literal interpretation of the first chapter of Genesis, but evolution is a scientific principle, like gravity or electricity. To scientifically test a religious belief one first must find some empirical test that gives different results depending on whether the belief is true or false. These results must be predicted before hand, not pointed to after the fact.
Most religious beliefs don't work this way. Religion usually presupposes a driving intelligence behind it, and an intelligent being is not always predictable. Since experiments judging religious beliefs cannot have predictable results, and may give different results under the same circumstances it is not open to scientific inquiry. St. Augustine commented on this in _The Literal Meaning of Genesis_.

Some religious beliefs do make predictions. These predictions can be tested. If a religious belief fails a test, it is the test that contradicts that religious belief. The theory which makes the correct prediction should have nothing to say on the matter. This does not mean that scientists don't sometimes make the mistake of saying a theory contradicts something.


Q2. Isn't evolution a religion?

Evolution is based on the scientific method. There are tests that can determine whether or not the theory is correct as it stands, and these tests can be made. Thousands of such tests have been made, and the current theories have passed them all. Also, scientists are willing to alter the theories as soon as new evidence is discovered. This allows the theories to become more and more accurate as research progresses.
Most religions, on the other hand, are based on revelations, that usually cannot be objectively verified. They talk about the why, not the how. Also, religious beliefs are not subject to change as easily as scientific beliefs. Finally, a religion normally claims an exact accuracy, something which scientists know they may never achieve.

Some people build up religious beliefs around scientific principles, but then it is their beliefs which are the religion. This no more makes scientific knowledge a religion than painting a brick makes it a bar of gold.

So the answer is no, evolution is no more a religion than any other scientific theory.


The Catholic Encyclopedia

For the second question in this poll, I couldn't answer except to say, "What the heck?" That option wasn't there. I wanted to answer "no", but I do not believe that evolution and God are mutually exclusive. Even if I did think it would happen, how can you set a time limit for how long it would take. I am not undecided. The answer is a resounding "no" at least from me, but I couldn't answer that because evolution does not mean that you don't believe in God.

Theory of Evolution

- Laura

What about that super-kid on one of the ripley's show?

Considering I watch Ripley's every Wednesday (Dean is gorgeous!!!!!), It's strange that I don't recall seeing any superkid. Can you please inform me?

I'm completely in line with Laura on this. I get pretty hardcore on my religion, but although I think God had a hand in creation etc, there's no reason for me not to believe that evolution doesn't exist etc. God and science don't have to...be in a fight with each other, if that makes any sense. But it probably doesn't considering the fact that it's2:30am and I'm slowly getting drunk and knocked out by NyQuil.

JD

The Kid who is 60 Lbs and can lift 140 LB weight. I call him the SuperKid.

I voted 'Yes' for the first question and 'No. Evolution teaches there is no god'. Actually, I kinda misunderstood what you meant, I thought it was 'Evolution teaches that no one can't be like God'. Anyway.

I want to say I completely agree with Laura. I have a friend who is an atheist, and we have talked soooooooooo many times about religion. He always tries to tell me that, if I believe in Evolution, I don't believe in God, and I always try to explain him that these are two irrelevant things. But he just won't listen.

In short, I think that God created the universe, but not the way the Bible shows. My interest in Biology started when I was five and took my father's teaching books to read about Mendel and Darwin (these, along with the 'Cells' and the 'Eye and Vision' were my favourite chapters) so I have studied a lot of Biology and that gave me the opportunity to think a lot about the relation between Evolution and God. (And please note that my father is as much a Biology teacher as a person that may not go to church every Sunday as he once used to, but strongly and deeply believes in God.)

AnnaBtG.

Well, assuming he can do that it's not that amazing -- the only thing that's remarkable is that he is so strong at such a young age.

Many grown men and women can lift more than -- even twice -- their weight.

Furthermore, someone who was raised in the Christian faith I feel the need to reiterate what posters before me said about it not being impossible -- or even unlikely -- to believe in God and accept the theory of Evolution. In fact, most Christian in the western world accept evolution and the big bang theory - I would wager only the fundamentalists have problems with it.

Evolution does not teach that there is no God it just asserts that life came to be on earth through natural means rather than supernatural.

Also, what does thinking that "the next phase in human evolution is to become like Superman" have to do with believing in God?

Finally, and this is me being nitpicky -- one shouldn't "believe" Evolution. Belief is for things we have no tangible proof for -- like God. "Believing" in science really goes against the nature of science itself -- to always challenge and question. One either accepts or rejects scientific theories like evolution and the big bang.

Building on previous posts, evolution has no "path." It's not like things are evolving up a great chain of being. While more complex beings have appeared over the course of evolution, things aren't necessarily getting 'better' just different. Take, for example, the differences among human beings that can be attributed to genetics. Humans have adapted (at least a bit) to their various environments. Sickle cell anemia is prevelant among blacks because the gene that codes for sickle cell anemia also provides resistance to malaria. This gene evolved in Africa and provided a useful trait to those who were only carriers, but is deadly to those who have both sickle cell genes. It's a mutation that is both good and bad (though the bad seems to significantly outweigh the good).

Most mutations are in fact bad, and are removed from the gene pool (though not necessarily in human beings, since we just find ways to cope with things like allergies and astygmatisms). Very rarely do good mutations occur, but when they do, they can spread like wildfire through a population and dramatically change a group within a very short time period (evolutionarily speaking).

Since evolution isn't aiming toward any sort of final product, it's impossible to accurately determine where we're going to be many mutations from now. We can conjecture and speculate on whether certain extant traits will become more or less prevalent, but massive changes are far more difficult to predict. Mutations are accidents, not Nature's planned way of creating better things slowly.

The reason why most mutations are purely bad is that if something is working, most random changes to that functioning system aren't going to make it work better. Sometimes there are mutations that are purely good, but they're rare. These will spread very quickly through a population. An example of this is the human ability to speak. It is hypothesized that once a certain part of the brain that decrypts syntax was 'turned on' by a mutation, this mutation spread throughout the entire human race. Those humans that could convey complex messages to each other were far superior to those with more limited means of communication that they completely replaced them in a short period of time. More commonly, there are mutations that will be good in some cases, and bad in others, like the sickle cell anemia case.

For a concise, clear, and enjoyable introduction to evolution, consider reading Jonathan Weiner's "Beak of the Finch." It won the Pulitzer Prize for best work of non-fiction some years ago and is a great place to start learning about evolution.


Rac

I do believe in God, but I also believe in Evolution. Just because I believe in one, doesn't mean I don't believe in the other. There are several interpretations of both, and God probably had a hand in Evolution. There's an excellent chapter in Piers Anthony's "And Eternity" which argues Religion vs Evolution. One person argued for Religion, another person argued for Evolution, and the main character had to make a decision between the two. In the end, a decision couldn't be made between the two because of suppositions, but it was decided they weren't mutually exclusive. (I think. It's been a year or two since I read the book. I still love that chapter, though.) After all, Genesis says God did everything in 7 days. But who's to say it's earth days? Why can't one of God's days be several hundred millienia?

I had to answer undecided to the second question, because none of the answers fit. I couldn't answer Yes, because I don't believe we're going the way of Superman. Man's brain capacity has increased over the years, not his physical strength or certain other attributes. Man has gone from the Caveman with only slightly more brain power than a monkey, to what we are today. Now, I'm no scientist, so most of what I'm saying may be wrong. But I agree with most Science Fiction that we're heading towards an increase in brain function, possibly leading to ESP. I couldn't answer No, because of the second part to the sentence: Evolution teaches there is no god. On the contrary, Evolution makes no mention of religion. Oh, sure, certain religious officials SAY that Evolution says there is no god, but it doesn't. And just because there's no conlcusive scientific proof that there's a god, doesn't mean there isn't.

I don't think I can add anything much to what everybody has said thus far. It's a little sad that decades after the concept of Evolution is introduced, there's still so much misunderstanding about the entire concept, so much so that some people have demanded it be taken off the school syllabus. Or worse, introduce an oxymoron like "Creation Science". While they scoff at the Theory of Evolution for being "just a theory", I don't see them take the same attitude for, say the Kinetic Particle Theory. :p

I think though, that many Christians who have problems with Evolution only know one very famous aspect of it; and that man evolved from apes. That's not what evolution is about. Charles Darwin never said "Man evolved from apes". However, Evolution does suggest a mechanism of which man and ape COULD have shared a common ancestor, I suppose that this notion is totally unacceptable for some people.

In any case, I believe that Science and Religion should be kept separate. They are not mutually exclusive, but they should be kept distinct.

In Science, there are steps in place, things to be done, before a hypothesis (a scientific guess/thought) could be accepted as a Theory (a scientific explanation that fits all presently available evidence). Even if a Theory has been accepted for a long time, emergence of new conflicting evidence will overturn it. A good example of this is Classical Mechanics like Newton's Laws of Motion.

Religion is about faith, not proof. You can't prove/disprove religious texts, but with evidence, you can certainly do so for scientific ones. You may believe what is written in religious texts, without needing hard evidence. That's Faith. However, Faith has no place in Science.

In short, if you were to complete this sentence "I do not accept the theory of Evolution because..." your answer should be along the lines of "the experiments are biased/skewed/inaccurate"...etc. What your religion is should not be a consideration at all.


metwin1

Very well said, metwin1 and Rac, and everyone else .

You all said what I was trying to say, but couldn't figure out how to put it into words.

- Laura

I still don't see how anyone can believe in both. Evolution teaches that Man came from apes. Their our cousins.

creation tells us that God made us from his own hand.

or do you guys mean that you only believe in half of the evolution theory.

Anyhow, I think I might have started an arugment or something. I only wanted to know people's views.

Evolution teaches that we descended from the same ancestor as modern apes. Along the way apes evolved one way and we evolved another.

We are not cousins but chimpanzees and humans do have the most similar DNA.

And he did. But I don't think the creation story is a literal account of how this came to be just a more poetic one.

I, personally, believe that God sent into motion the chain of events that led to the creation of the universe, life and humanity.

I've seen the arguments FoLCs have had over religious/social topics and I assure you this is no argument. More of a spirited debate.

phew. That's a relief. :rolleyes:

To put in my two bits. Everyone has said over and over that you can't prove religion. I agree. You can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists. You have to have faith.

But...

You can't prove evolution either. Scientific theories are proven when you can observe the theory taking place. We can't observe evolution taking place, it takes too much time. We can't observe creation taking place either, that's already happened. Creation in seven days and evolution are both improvable theories and both require a tremendous amount of faith. Creation Science is not any more of an oxymoron than Evolutionistic Science. Both are theories. Both are improvable.

And while I am on the subject, for those who understand the big bang theory, where did it come from? If there was a bang, there had to be matter to begin with. Where did that matter come from?

That is not true. As metwin1 put so eloquently,

She is right. As Birdie said, there is evidence showing that apes are humans' closest relatives, yet we are so different, we are a completely different genus and species. We aren't even close to "cousins". All the evolution theory says is that there is a possible common ancestor in the evolutionary past between apes and humans. That is a very common mistake for people that don't want to understand the theory of evolution.

That's not exactly true. You can prove evolution. In small, simple animals (for example Drosophillia (fruit flies)), you can make a very simple mutation to one gene and it causes a chage in the whole animal. If the change is not a fatal change (if the change is fatal, the animal does not reproduce), when the animal reproduces, the mutated gene is sometimes passed down to the next generation. That mutated gene can be passed down for many generations and become a perminant fixture in the animal. That is a type of evolution that is man-made. Natural evolution happens over a long time -- too long to observe.

- Laura

Funny you should mention fruit flies, Laura.

For it is with them that some of the limits of mutation and genetics have been shown. This link is a bit over the top, but it gives you the idea. Evolution in the laboratory shows only very minor changes with some very definite boundaries.

Here 's a site that's a bit less extreme.

And you are not distinguishing between microevolution -- which has indeed been demonstrated both in the lab and in nature -- and macroevolution which has NOT. And it's not merely a question of time. There are fruit fly strains that have been bred in labs for thousands of generations.

Finally, I've found someone who shares my opinion on the big bang. This is *exactly* what I think.

I did have a rambly post written out, but the internet crashes every 3 seconds here. But basically I was just going to comment on one of our R. Catholic beliefs that God created man in his image and likeness. So while there are reasons to believe in evolution, I also think God had a hand in it all along. Where? I don't know. I wasn't around then. It's just one of those things that I believe on faith...or at least until I update my Catechism of the Catholic Church which is about 10 years old LOL...oops.

JD