Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Lois' vs. Lois's

Have to say, I would too. I wouldn't think of saying five fifteen at all.

LabRat

Somebody asks me the time, and I can say any or none of the below, depending on situation:

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Sorry, I haven't got a watch on.

Argh! What did I do with my watch?

Hold on a sec, I've got a watch somewere... ahhh... quarter past five.

Look yourself. (as I point to clock on wall).

Urmm... about five fifteen maybe... I've put my watch somewhere...

Fifteen mintues till we can go home!
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You get the idea

We don't really speak English like they do in the text books.

(And I very rarely wear a watch on my wrist, but that's a whole other matter )

I'm not too fussed about Lois' or Lois's, I use both interchangably... I vaguely remember being taught to do it one way, but I can't remember which way that is now...

For me it doesn't affect the meaning of what I'm communicating, people reading it will understand it. However, when you get to issues like we were/we are in Greek, or in English things like your/you're or its/it's and so on, these are important, because used incorrectly they could cause confusion and hinder communication.

Helga

Just recently, I've started teaching my kids about telling time. And I can tell you, all the workbooks have pictures of old-fashioned round clocks -- just like a lot of wrist watches. The day may come when we give up "quarter past" but I don't think we're there yet

PJ
who really only got *good* at reading clock hands when she got a fancy WB Superman watch, which not only isn't digital, but doesn't even have *numbers* on the watch face <g>

First, there is a distinction between Lois's and the boys': while they are both genitive, or possessive, cases (ie belonging to Lois, the boys), one is a singular (proper) noun and the other is a plural noun. There are, from what I vaguely remember, different customs concerning the genitive case of names ending in 's'. But whether I can find a source is another matter...

Now, bear in mind that I'm jet-lagged and thus not inclined to go into lengthy searches... I can't find anything in my Oxford grammar guide. Fowler, on the other hand, has this to say:

As for more modern - and American - usage, see here:
Professor Charles Darling\'s grammar website . This site suggests what I have seen recommended elsewhere: Lois's for a first name, but Richards' for a surname.

Another good rule of thumb I have seen is: ask yourself how you would pronounce it. Would you say 'Lois's car'? Or 'Lois' car'? I think most people would say the former, though I'm willing to be disagreed with.

Although I'm pretty convinced that Lois's is correct, when GEing I don't try to persuade the author to change from Lois' as long as he/she is consistent in usage - which is all that matters, really!


Wendy (who says 'quarter past five')

Argh! How many times do I have to explain this rule, class? The rule is definite in American English usage. I have checked all four grammar books currently residing on my bookcase. (One of the quirks of being a former English teacher) The rule is very simple and has been stated above by a number of people. With the exception of the following proper nouns: Jesus, Achilles, and Moses, add 's to a singular proper noun that ends in an s. Add an apostrophe to a plural noun that ends in an s whether it is proper or common. So, it is Lois's, the Lanes', the boys', and Moses'. If any of you found a website that said it was all right to say Lois', the information was incorrect. If you were to say Lois', then you have said that there is more than one Loi and are using the possessive form.

One last tidbit that may explain the confusion. In the field of journalism, at least in the United States, stylebooks have for decades changed a few of the basic rules of grammar in order to save space on the newspaper page. So the AP and UPI stylebooks say to not place a comma before "and" in a series (i.e. "We had bacon, eggs and toast" instead of "We had bacon, eggs, and toast.") The journalistic stylebooks, UPI at least, also say to write Lois'. But if you're not writing a newspaper article, it's not correct.

Schoomarm

I can't actually get my hands on my HS grammar book, which said both uses were acceptable.

However, the link I listed above was one of several I found. (I chose to link to that one for its ease of use and clarity.) Each was backed up by someone whose job it is to teach English, and/or who has published books on English grammar and usage.

I repeat my previous conclusion: a variety of sources make it clear that both usages are correct. Therefore, it is a matter of personal style. And of course, as Annie, Caroline, LabRat, and Wendy all pointed out, the main thing is to use one consistently.

Rivka, here is what the site you linked to says: As you can plainly see, the site you are quoting says exactly what I said was correct usage.

Schoolmarm

Hi Schoolmarm Just putting on my Admin cap for a moment to address a concern which has been brought to my attention.

Well, I believe that this is the first time you've explained it under your current nick. And certainly the first time on these boards, and there are people here who aren't part of other L&C forums.

Seriously, I'm sure you had the very best of intentions in relation to what you said in your post, Schoolmarm, so you may not be aware that the part I've quoted might be interpreted in a way you didn't intend. I'm just pointing that out in order to request that no-one who may have been upset by it respond - we don't want a fight.

Thanks, all. Normal service is now resumed.


Wendy
Boards Administrator

In general is a word ended in s you would just write it as s' I think that grammartically speaking writing it as Lois's is incorrect at least that is what I've been taught.

The thing I love about the English language is that it's chock-full of exceptions to the rules

If you want to pluralize a word, you add an 's' (car -> cars) -- except for when you have to add 'es' instead (bus -> buses). So it seems logical to me that there might be a similar exception to the rules of making posessives -- if the cars all have flat tires, it's "the cars' flat tires." If one bus has a flat tire, its "the bus's flat tire."

Plus I write by ear, and without the extra s at the end it just doesn't "sound" right to me

However, I'm perfectly happy to let others choose a different scheme, since apparently several of them are correct. As someone said, the main thing here is consistency -- pick one, and stick with it!

PJ