Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls A-plots or B-plots

So, there I am, reading various comments folders -- and, yes, I know I should be reading the stories, too -- and I see that there is a strong demand for smoochies. Lots and lots of smoochies. The more the merrier.

But... Is there a place for that old fashioned thing, the A-plot? Does anyone like A-plots? Or are they simply extraneous material, taking up valuable WAFF space?

I'd love to know what people think about this, so please comment after you've voted. Thanks!

Chris

While I admire anyone who can create a well-crafted, intricate A-plot...it's all about Club Smoochie.

Okay, hold up. I've thought about it some more, and it really depends on *what* the A plot is...I guess I really can't generalize my vote...

Jen

There are other possibilities, too...

For example, while I prefer balanced stories, I enjoy the occasional B-plot-heavy fic; I could even see liking certain A-plot-primary stories. But overall, I'm for balance.

At least in fics...

Chris, I went with option #4, "A-plots should take second place to B-plots", but I really am not happy with my answer. Yet, as a self-proclaimed B-plot junkie , I cringed at saying a good balance between A and B, although that's probably the way I should have voted.

Obviously I assume that we're talking more than a vignette length story here; otherwise we really don't need *any* plot at all.

I truly do appreciate a well-crafted A-plot, as I think many L&C readers do. But every strong A-plot story has at least a few snippets of B-plot moments, and in some ways I find myself treasuring those moments more, simply because there are so few of them. Does that sound irrational?

KathyM

I too cry out for "smoochies", but truth be told, I enjoy them more when they are hanging on a good A-plot. So for mid and long length stories, I like a good A-plot. Pure B-plots are good for shorter stories. After all, they *have* to do something between smoochies

Artemis

I voted for a balance, although of course that's just a generalization. I tend to think that B-plots, on their own, can't carry a longer story -- they need help from an A-plot of *some* kind. Now, it might be the kind of A-plot that is designed solely to provide excuses for the B-plot but that's fun when it's done well. But I also enjoy good A-plots.

Smoochies can be fun, but they don't make up for otherwise lousy writing.

PJ

I also voted on a good balance between A- and B-plots. While I love a good romance story with plenty of smoochies, I also really enjoy the long A-plot stories including all the ones with WHAMs and serious cases of angst. The stories with a good balance and a happy ending (of course) are the ones I enjoy most. While vignettes are nice, I like the long ones best because they give the best opportunity for a well-developed story line.

That was a very difficult one to vote on, Chris. In the end I went for A plots taking second place to B plots, but I really hesitated a lot with the A/B balance. And here's why:

For me to be enthralled, I need the A plot to be mostly related to the B plot. The A plot prompts the story forward, and it's what enhances the characters' struggle towards their goal. And when I say that, I'm not necessarily talking about smoochies. So all in all, B over A because A is strongly dependent on B.

Kaethel

i'm sorry, chris. i can't vote here. i'm a fan of both a-plots and b-plots. i can't say that one should take precedence over the other, because it really depends on the individual story.

how much i like a story is based far more on the quality of the writing, the mood of the story, the specifics of the plot, etc than it is on a-plot vs b-plot.

personally, i tend to drift more towards happier, feel-good stories than i do towards tense and/or angsty stories. that's just a trend, and can be overcome by quality of writing (masques, for example). my point is that it's more the type of a-plot and the type of b-plot that makes a difference to me.

i think if you see a lot of demands for smoochies, it's probably because watching l&c kiss is a simple popular instant gratification sort of thing.

put differently, everyone wants dessert (and loves to ask for it), but you still need the main course to make it a proper meal.

Paul

I found I couldn't really vote. The balance option came closest, but I don't think a story needs an aplot, so I didn't feel right about choosing it.

I enjoy reading stories with aplots, but I also enjoy reading stories without.

LabRat

I voted for the balance as well. I like reading whaffy stories with smoochies, but then again, I also like the whams and angst, ocassionaly. So if it's all put into one story, I'm one happy girl.

And basically, the way I see it, the B-plot happens around the A-plot (for longer stories). Shorties should be B-plot only. And for the longer ones, first some good angst before going to the waffy parts.

Saskia (still too sleepy for this to sound logical)

I also hesitated between 'balance' and A taking second place to B, for precisely the reasons which Kaethel articulated. But that, of course, is just my personal preference, borne out of my choice of non-L&C reading matter as well, and shouldn't be taken as representative of anyone else!

Lots of readers do love a well-crafted A-plot, Chris, and I can certainly appreciate one, especially when it's done so well as you're doing it in EMII and previously in Love, Loyalty and Luthor. I just tend to treasure the relationship moments more.

I voted for balance. But it's a hard choice.
I have read stories with more a than b. Most of them I didn't like. I'm more a sucker for B-plots. Nonetheless I chose the balance between the two, because a well written a-plot in comibination with an excellent b-plot are the greatest stories.
Of course, there are also very good stories with mostly only a b-plot, but those are only possible for short stories. If you want something long you 'need' an a-plot!

I hope that wasn't too confusing!
~Sira

I want to vote, but am not sure of exactly what an A plot is.

Can it be the problems that Lois and Clark have found their relationship in? or is it outside of the relationship?

Does Faux Pas have an A plot? For the Greater Good? or is that expanded B plot? (Just a couple of my very favorites)

Once I figure this out, I can answer

Loosely speaking, Trenna, the A-plot is the part with the villain/investigation. The B-plot is the part with relationship stuff.

Faux Pas, I would say, has snippets of lots of different a-plots (the longest/most important was probably Trask's kidnapping plan, but there were references to many other first season eps along the way), but is very much b-plot driven. Second Thoughts, OTOH, has a unified a-plot -- to stop Luthor from destroying the Planet. The b-plot would be Lois re-evaluating her relationships with Lex and Clark. (As far as I remember, anyway think I need to re-read that one...).

PJ

Hi Trenna,

As I understand it, the B-plot refers to the relationship aspects of the story: usually Lois and Clark's relationship, but not always. In Alicia's Final Forgiveness, it was about Lois's relationship with her father.

The A-plot is the action or dramatic part - the 'villain of the week' in the episodes. So in TOGOM the A-plot was the gangsters, and the B-plot was all about Lois's reaction to Clark's 'death'.

Does Faux Pas have an A-plot? Only in passing; I took the A-plots of the episodes and let them run in the background. There was an A-plot for a while, where Clark and Lois were kidnapped by Trask; while it certainly counts as an A-plot, it was there - as Pam said earlier - to create opportunities for the B-plot. For The Greater Good? Yes, the asteroid is an A-plot, but the B-plot occupies much more space in the story.

I think The Healing Time is probably the best example of a very long story of mine with practically no A-plot; again, the episode A-plots play out in the background, but the only time I actually make use of them is to throw Lois and Clark together (raiding the Viologic offices in the middle of the night).

On the other hand, the stories in Nan's Dagger series all have very strong A-plots, and while she's including more B-plot these days, the main focus is on the A-plot a lot of the time - the story set on the island (sorry, title temporarily escapes me! ) is an excellent example of this.

Hope this helps you, Trenna!


Wendy

wasn't she named the Queen of A-plots? In the Home series too.

Charade?

Jose

José said:
I think that Nan and Jenni have shared that title over time.


Wendy

Yes, thanks. I'm still a B plot fan but A plot is fine if it pushes the "B" along

I also voted for a good balance.

My reasoning is this: a fanfic has to have a good, rounded B-plot to satisfy me. Most longer fics need something in the way of an A-plot, too, though it doesn't need to be as solid. But that doesn't mean the A-plot is taking second place; an A-plot with gaping holes will wreck a story just as quickly as a weak B-plot, maybe even quicker.

So a fanfic needs a good balance between A- and B-plots... but that doesn't have to mean equal time for each. A good balance could be a minimal A-plot in the background and a strong B-plot occupying centre stage.

Mere

A strong and interesting A plot is what differenciates one fic from the next. Stories which are mainly B plot have a tendency to have a 'sameness' to them that, while enjoyable on one level doesn't always satisfy the need for diversity.

The best (we're talking longer stories here, of course) stories are ones where the A plot has a definite impact on the B plot and helps drive it in whichever direction it takes.

Using an example of my own... Serial Vengence could be said to have a fairly strong A plot, I think you'd have to agree that there was a fairly substancial B plot also. The events of the A plot essentially forced Lois into a situation where she had to confront her feelings for Clark much earlier than she would have and under much more intense conditions.

Vignettes and shorts, because they focus on single events, or incidents can get away with being totally B plot because that may be what the event or incident is about, which, in turn, actually makes it the A plot

Tank (who really enjoys the diversity that a good A plot can give to our, oh so familiar, Lois and Clark world)

Thanks to everyone who has voted and / or posted. It's been fascinating to see what people have to say.

I admit that I am fairly surprised at the results (so far -- maybe more people will vote... please?) I thought the bias in favour of B-plots would be more pronounced than it, in fact, is. People do bay for and applaud those smoochies, you know!

Mind you, the rationale for going for balance is interesting in some cases. (A good balance is more B than A. H'm )

I, myself, went for the balance option. I'm sorry, but I can't get excited about a very long story that is 90% B-plot, no matter how well it is written. Once in a while, such a thing is okay, but I don't think that I could stomach a regular diet of such things (be they LnC or anything else). Then again, I like some depth to my characters, and I'm not sure that pure A-plots could give that. Certainly, that is what I find most frustrating about many thrillers that I've (attempted to) read.

In short, I suspect that I'd take a look at most things across the range of the spectrum I suggested, but I think I'd be happier paddling around in the middle three categories.

Chris

Despite the comments here, reading the fanfic comments folders has given me the impression that most readers do in fact perfer B plot driven stories, where the A plot remains in the background, if present at all. We like to say we like stories with strong A plots, but I'm less certain that's the case when it comes right down to it for most readers.

Carol

I'll admit that I don't like A-plots. I voted for the last option. Actually, I don't mind an A-plot, but I usually just skim through it to get to the B-plot parts . I think that's why I've never really written an A-plot. I love to read really long stories with no A-plot at all -- I think that's why I like vignettes better than long stories. I mean, in real life, how much A-plot is there really? At least in my life, I'd probably say none, but then again I am not acquainted with Superman in real life either .

- Alicia

Well, I suspect that some of the clamor for "smoochies" is a sort of in-joke; just as a few others agitate for WHAMs and haircuts

I like A-plots, especially the intricate and complex ones. "Four Days to Nightfall" was one of my favorite stories last year, and there really wasn't a whole lot of B-plot at all, at least not in the smoochie department. I was just in awe of how Nan handled that seemingly impossible premise. ML Thompson is another of my favorite writers -- she's done some fabulous a-plots. "Cause and Effect" comes to mind, and I recall being stunned and delighted by the ingenious a-plot wrap-up in "I Will Always Love You" because she'd set it up so well. And there are many others -- Carol, I adored your a-plot in Connections. I'd never have thought of some of the connections you came up with, but they worked very well.

Chris, I'm not reading Extraordinary Man because I started it and got too worked up over the initial scenes, where Clark was a lawyer losing a big case. I really need to go back and catch up on that one, so I can read your sequel, too.

(All citations to fic titles are from memory by a woman who's up past her bedtime -- reader beware )

PJ
who probably ought to go to bed now

Pam: I don't want to go off on an EM tangent here particularly, but I will say that EMI is largely character driven (and so B-plot, I guess), whereas EMII has a lot of A-plot. This probably explains why EMI is rather shorter than EMII. It also shows that the kind of stories that I write aren't necessarily the stories that I would claim to prefer to read.

Carol: you've phrased my 'fears' perfectly! But I'd prefer to believe that people are saying what they mean here. Makes me feel better!

I confess, the motivation for the poll in the first place was a general feeling of insecurity; why write A-plots if that isn't what keeps most people happy?

The answer to that is, however, that I don't necessarily write stories for the readers. Yes, I love it when people tell me that they like something, and it is vastly reassuring to be told that you have done something well. However, the decision to write in the first place is, in many ways, a selfish and self-indulgent one. I write a story because I like the story. I hope others will too, but that's the icing on the cake, so to speak.

Although I suspect that there is an element of the joking in the demand for smoochies, I would like to make two points. (1) I do have a tendency to take things at face value, which sometimes makes it hard for me to spot a joke (which is my problem, not anyone else's), (2) you need the 'cultural' background to understand that the joke might be there in the first place. Given that I was not a regular visitor to the other mbs, I'm not sure that I have / had that.

Chris (who hopes that this doesn't make her sound like she's whingeing because she's not, not really )

But, Chris, the thing about EMII is that, while there clearly is a complex A-plot, it's very well mixed with the B. The last section is a perfect example of that: you have Lois and CJ going through yet more documents and papers trying to find a lead, but in amidst that you have gestures, smiles, touches and kisses. And especially Lois's demand to Clark that he kiss her properly!

It is very clearly as much a relationship story as it is a dramatic/plot-driven story. We have CJ's insecurities about his alien origins and his ambivalence towards his special abilities. We have their past relationship. We have a Lois who loathed CJ and made that very clear, and yet is now falling deeply in love with him.

The A-plot and the B-plot seem to drive each other in your story, and this is what I mean by a very well-integrated A- and B-plot. It would be different if we just had a couple of crumbs of more relationship-type stuff (which doesn't have to mean kisses; it could equally be a meaningful conversation or just a touch in the midst of other stuff) and then section after section of nothing but A-plot. That's certainly the kind of thing I think of when I think of the sort of A-plotted stories which I'm less interested in reading.

EMII, Connections, YUTS, Nan's S1 and S2 series... these all have wonderfully balanced A- and B-plots in which those who prefer relationship-driven stories can find plenty to make them very happy indeed, Chris and Carol!


Wendy

Well, you can rest assured on my account for one, Chris - if I say I enjoy aplots that's precisely what I mean and nothing but.

I do think, however, that there is a tendency more towards b than aplots in FoLCdom generally. That makes a lot of logical sense to me as most FoLCs were attracted to the show because of the relationship between Clark and Lois, not the villain of the week. Naturally, that carries over into fanfic.

Your thoughts on writing echo mine precisely and I've said so in the past. I've always found writing for FoLCdom quite a unique experience in all kinds of ways, not to mention a little difficult at times. In the past I've always written for shows with large ensemble casts and with characters whose backgrounds, histories, etc were somewhat hazy. A lot of the pleasure came from filling in the blanks. What had happened to X as a child to make him become the man he was in the show? And so on. These generally aren't an option with LNC and I do find that a little more restrictive at times than I've been used to.

It took me an awful long time, for example, to get used to the fact that I was dealing with the same two characters scene after scene after scene, rather than being able to structure a story around moving between the threads of three or four characters' actions to build up suspense.

Prior to writing for FoLCdom, much of my stories were structured to be as much like an episode of the show as possible - with a and b plots - which is why my first real venture into LNC was Caped Fear. But I did realise soon afterwards that this kind of story wasn't what FoLCs were really looking for and that the aplot was largely irrelevant for many of them.

Did that change my writing habits for this fandom? I guess so - although it certainly wasn't a conscious decision. I've never sat down and planned what I'll write next and probably never will. Just not the way my Muse is wired. But there is a natural tendency, I think, to tailor what you write to the market you're writing for. That just makes sense.

Having said that, I wouldn't say that an author shouldn't write aplots. If a story idea presented itself to me tomorrow that had a huge aplot I'd write it and post it without a second thought - and I'd certainly encourage any author to do the same. When all's said and done, I believe what FoLCs enjoy most are stories that are well written - you give them that, they'll be more than happy to read and comment.

LabRat

Most of the time I agree with that. I just have an idle comment that speaking for myself, I'll probably never write an L&C fic that's Club Smoochie based. It's not not in my writing nature. If that means that a few less FOLCs end up reading what I write, that's perfectly fine by me. I'm a firm believer that there's something for everyone at the Archive.

Jen

The Great Gorn (whatever happened to her anyway) wrote some of the best stories ever. She interspersed her B-plots with the A-plots so well that no matter whatever your preference, you became mired in the story . The A-plot supported the B-Plot and the B-Plot supported the A-plot.

I read this the other day and hadn't commented yet, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents now. I don't have really anything to say that is new... I prefer a well balanced story with a good A and B plot. If either one comes up short, I find the story less enjoyable. Writing is a different story. It's not that I dislike writing A plots, it is that I struggle so much to come up with anything original and then write it decently enough to warrant posting. Thus I don't really tailor my story to the audience as much as to my own weaknesses.

Jana (who is now headed back to struggling with writing another A plot)

This reminds me - I would like to be able to view the final results after more people have voted than were there when I voted. Now, I agree we should be restricted to voting only once. But is there a way for the pollster to show us the results at the end?
Thanks
Artemis

You can see the result without someone posting it here. Instead of clicking on 'vote', now click on 'results' and you can see it. But that will only work if you have voted.

Saskia

Great, Saskia! I didn't realize that was part of the software. Yeah, I know it says "results", but it didn't connect in my brain.

Artemis

I voted for "A story needs a good balance between A- and B-plots."

Now that isn't to say that I don't love the short smoochy stories, but on the whole I think I like to see some plot with it in longer stories. Tho as I'm sitting here writing this, I'm realising that some of my favourite long stories have just been B-plot. I think my answer is that I'll read just about anything!

Loriel

Pam, I'm glad you enjoy my a-plots. What is fascinating is that I've never set out to write an a-plot. I usually get an idea for a b-plot and then have to fight like mad to find the context (Hense, an a-plot is born).

A good example of this would be Superstud. It started out as just an attempt to examine what would have happened if Clark had been the one affected by the pheromone compound instead of Lois and was meant to be just a fun little romp. But then I started wondering why Clark was affected and Lois wasn't. And then I decided that it needed to take place after the original pheromone incident - because Lois and Clark's relationship needed to be a little further along and then... Well, the rest is history.

In fact, I currently have a b-plot idea that has been haunting me. If I were to try to write it, it would undoubtedly develope its own a-plot simply because I'm not a good enough writer to drive my b-plot forward without an a-plot.