Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic New season of Stargate-SG1 (Spoilers for S8/S9)

I felt for Colonel Mitchel. I felt his sadness and frustration, because I feel it myself

I don't want ANY SG-1. I want *THE* SG-1 team.

Funniest moment was when Vala made the "limited gene pool" crack in reference to the fact that Daniel and Mitchel look enough alike to be brothers - a fact which popped into my head the moment I saw him.

The way the 2 looked at each other and then looked back at her, confused, was very good. Good chemistry.

However, I don't like hearing him josh around with Teal'c about their rapport, or run around enthusisatically/sarcastically saying "this is fun!" because... he's just trying to hard.

Anyway, I do like him, think he'll make a good teammate - and are they NOT going to say whether ship happened?

Yep, I wasn't sure what to expect with Cameron -- and frankly I was a little worried 'cause I really liked him as John Crichton, so to have him *and* Aeryn/Vala on screen together... but they made it work. And you have to feel for the guy, going through those personnel interviews Oh, and I really enjoyed seeing Vala driving Daniel insane. When they told him that if he killed her, he'd die too, he actually looked like he was considering it

So, lots of things unsettled yet, but it's looking good so far. I'm liking Atlantis, too, but I won't get into unannounced spoilers here

PJ

Well, I think it's safe to say I approached this with equal degrees of anticipation and trepidation. In fact, so much trepidation that I've had the episode dl for over 24 hours now and only psyched myself up to watch it just now. )

LabRat

I finally watched these episodes (SG-1, Atlantis, and BSG) after finishing up the latest Harry Potter novel. I was pleasantly surprised by all three of them.

Vala was absolutely hilarious. I really enjoyed the episode she was in last season and enjoyed this one even more. It's pretty clear to me that Daniel really does have a thing for her since she can get under his skin so easily. And she likes him a lot, else she wouldn't pick on him so much. I wouldn't mind seeing the two off and on throughout the season, rather than in just the first few episodes. Daniel makes a great straight man but gets in his moments as well. Besides, he needs someone new since his dead wife is on Six Feet Under.

I'll withhold judgment on Lt. Col. Mitchell for now. It did seem he was trying too hard after the rug was pulled out from under him. As it's set up so far, I still don't seem Mitchell bringing the team back together on a permanent basis. I hope they don't try the ad hoc method the whole season like all the contrived methods the Star Trek movies used to bring Worf on board the Enterprise. That would get old really fast.

I never saw Farscape, so I don't connect the two actors together. But it does make me wonder how those two reacted to being on-screen at the same time on a completely different show.

Atlantis was interesting. Bringing in Mitch Pileggi of X-Files fame was a nice move. That'll be interesting to see how he interacts with Dr. Weir.

I'm still undecided on BSG. I like it so I'll continue watching, but I've yet to connect with any of the characters. Maybe I'm still too attached to the 70's version?

Vala. Sort of like Ex-Gould barbie. I don't really like her that much. But I did enjoy her twisting the screws into daniel, only because I adore him.

I love how Daniel has evolved over the years, and yet my heart breaks, because of why he's become as he is now.

But what I really loved was Cameron's desire to learn from him. Strong departure from his entry into the Stargate program when he was ridiculed by the other soldiers.


The geek is now a warrior.

We're really enjoying the new season so far, so I have hopes. I liked the whole Merlin/Avalon thing more than I thought I would from the teasers.

Artemis

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're so right. I was just re-watching Stargate the movie the other week, and, yeah, the difference is profound. (Plus he's got way better hair now ) He's had a lot of practice in the past 8 years -- and some very good teachers, in Jack, Sam & Teal'c. It's a pretty far cry from teaching ESL in a sweater vest!

This reminds me of a favorite Daniel moment -- S5, maybe -- they're getting ready to go through the gate with some prisoners, and one of them says sarcastically he's so happy to be protected by an archeologist. Daniel just holds out his knife, and pretends to be confused -- "Yeah, I forget... which end do the bullets go in?"

It's a very short don't-blink-you'll-miss-it snippet of the scene but I love it

PJ

LOL! I love that line. I do miss the floppy hair. *sighs*

I think I like the new dynamics so far. I liked Ben in Farscape, and I do see a bit of Crichton in him now. Luckily, I don't see any of the old John/Aeryn carrying over, so I can get into Daniel/Vala a lot more. (The wink at Cameron at the baby line not withstanding) And I absolutely loved Teal'c's face when Cameron said "bullets bounce!"

LOL, yeah. Action Jackson, as some of the Gateworld fans term him these days. Some of them whine about it, but I think it's been a natural evolution. Let's face it, the guy would have to be terminally dumb not to have learned during all those years at the sharp end of the action and to have availed himself of the expertise available to him at the SGC in weapons and hand to hand training.

I enjoy that knife comment too. Also, in the same vein, Jack's "What kind of archeologist goes around carrying a gun?" in Window of Opportunity and Daniel's "Hello? This one does!" response.

LabRat

Oh god. Thanks for forewarning me NOT to keep watching sg1 after the current season in German TV anymore! Col. O'Neill was always my reason for tuning in to the show, his humor was still recognizable after the dubbing-process and besides Daniel he was the only person to bring the show to life!
Although the new guy from Farscape isn't bad (looking :p ) either there's something about successors I don't like because it never is the same. Well then, I can still enjoy the last few episodes with Jack as CO of the Stargate Command in the upcoming weeks. BTW, the official webpage says something about him taking a position in Homeland Security.

Oh, I'd give it a try, Bettina. Like me, you might be pleasantly surprised. That was my worst fear, that there wouldn't be anything I'd want to watch, but I was certainly proved wrong. With the premiere at least. And no one is more surprised about that than this fan.

And, yes. Jack has been promoted to Homeland Security and has relocated to Washington. But so far we haven't been given that information on screen. Yet. We just got vague hints that he was leaving Colorado and, of course, he's obviously not in command at the SGC any more, because Landry is. (No word on what's happened to Hammond either, who had command of HS all through S8).

LabRat

I thought Hammond was at the helm of the Prometheus now...

Paul, also excited to see Season 9, but also a little worried about the cast changes.

No, Hammond was in command of Homeland Security all through S8 and there's been no reason given (so far) as to why the post is now vacant for Jack to take over.

Hammond basically bunked off his job to insist he took command of the Prometheus when it was supposed to be heading for Atlantis in PU - a decision which had a lot of the Air Force brats in the fandom whinging that he would never (never, ever ever <G>) be allowed to get away with that.

So far as we know, that mission having been aborted by Vala's antics, he returned to his day job in Washington.

The Prometheus is generally - other than this aberration - under the command of Colonel Pendergast.

Hammond was also temporarily in command of Prometheus during the events of Lost City. It was after the defeat of Anubis's fleet that the President assigned him to Homeland Security.

Course, there is the Daedalus. Prometheus's successor. Perhaps, having had a taste of excitement on Prometheus, Hammond's managed to wangle his way onto the command of her. But that's just speculation for now.

LabRat

You're singing high praises, LabRat Maybe I'm going to give it a try but not until it's on German TV's and that may take a while.

There are a few things which make little sense to me as a non-American. In the real life the Dpt of Homeland Security has almost no leading positions for military officers as most leading positions are political and civilian secretaries, therefore what exactly did Gen. Hammond and now Gen. O'Neill command?
Then there's the question about us military ranks in the Air Force. There are formally five different ranks within the 'General', I cannot imagine that they'd immediately put a rookie-general onto a command position to the SGC and a year later into the command of DHS. BTW, did Gen. Hammond ever receive an additional star (or whatever they use in the Air Force)?

Do give it a try, Bettina. Jack was a big part of the show, but the writing's always been the *most* important part, IMO, and that's still top notch... and anyway Jack's been fading out for the last couple of years so it's not a sudden change.

LabRat, Hammond might want the Daedalus, but he'd have to travel to the Pegasus galaxy to get hold of it, so I'm thinking not Maybe he's holding out for ship #3? (Btw, I love the way events on SG-1 and Atlantis intersect sometimes -- good reminder that it is still all the same universe, even if they can't interact very much.)

I did hear a rumor that Jack was retiring (again) and going on as a civilian, which was allowing him and Sam to have a relationship (finally) down near Area 51. I haven't seen anything on screen to confirm that, though, so I'm not gonna bet any money on it.

PJ

No, Pam, what I meant was Hammond has been missing since the very start of S9. I was speculating that perhaps he was in command of Daedalus when it left for Atlantis, halfway through Avalon. That he was already on board as it's CO.

But there's nothing to guide us to that conclusion. It was just something that occurred to me as I was answering Paul as a possible reason for his absence at Homeland Security. He has to have gone somewhere since the end of S8. Hope they tell us soon because I'm beginning to fret they've killed him off or something.

I think that was just wishful thinking borne out of the Kerry/Jack retirement dialogue in Threads. It definitely looks as though Jack didn't take Kerry's advice there. :p But I'm still intrigued by (and kind of pinning my hopes on <G>) these personal reasons of Carter's and hoping that they'll at least...lean towards...something in the getting together option in the next few episodes. Actually, basically, I just hope that they don't tell us catagorically that they tried it and it didn't work out. I'm fairly happy so long as they leave me room to be able to decide personally that they get together at some point. And like I say, she certainly didn't look unhappy, which is also giving me hope. A teensy glimmer, let's say.

IIRC correctly the position of Homeland Security was created by the President after the Ancient outpost was found in Antartica (S7,Lost City). It was a co-ordinating position, overseeing the various strands that had cropped up over the years - the SGC, the outpost and, I think, others. Hang on...will go take a look at the transcript:

[Transcript credited to Stargate SG1 Transcripts ]

I don't know much about the AF ranks, just that there's been a lot of debate on the subject over the years. There is a strand of thought which says that Jack and SG1 (and probably Hammond) are these days outwith anything remotely normal as regards promotion and rank because of their experience at the SGC. I mean how can you not promote the man who's saved the planet seven times (or eight if Teal'c is counting)? And I tend to have a fondness for that idea, personally.

I'm not sure about Hammond, but I do know that there was a lot of feverish getting out of the magnifying glasses and poring over screencaps from spoilers by some fans on Gateworld and I think the concensus was that Jack had definitely gained a rank when he left the SGC. And, of course, the dialogue above tends to suggest Hammond gained a rank too when taking on the position originally.

But, again, this is the kind of detail that usually washes over me, so I'm hazy on the details. Sorry.

EDIT: Sorry, just realised I've been talking about Homeland Security in my posts when it should, of course, be Homeworld.


LabRat

For being hazy on the details you either have a remarkable memory or you're a very fond fan Thanks for helping me out with these answers, it does make more sense now. The mistake was originally mine as I confused the fictional Homeworld Security for the real-life Department of Homeland Security.

Pam, you're the second with this suggestion and I slowly start thinking that it might be worth it. Did I miss something or were you both Farscape fans too? Sorry, just joking

I partly agree with you about the writing as the most important part at all but in the course of time you get used to something and it's hard to break a habit. Personally I don't know if I should feel old about not wanting to change or if there's enough to claim my stubbornness on. When I started watching the show several years ago it was only because of R.D. Anderson and for a long time it stayed that way. Naturally you cannot keep watching a show simply ogling their main character (though that would have been a justifiable exuse) so my interest in the story itself grew and for years I've been a moderate fan.

Considering the situation in a more realistic way, it's probably good to see him leave the show as I don't think the character is cut out for a desk-job. This 'rumor' about Jack retiring, that's imo nothing more than a shipper request on a show simply not cut out for romance. About Jack again receiving a promotion after he left the SGC - wow, 2 General promotions in one year, that's a world record

Ooh, I just had to share this. I was reading Joe Mallozzi's In the Making of Avalon pt 1, and he was mentioning random stuff. And I just had to share this quote:

I was a Farscape fan, for a while... which is one of the reasons I was worried that I wouldn't be able to see the actors again without constantly remembering the old characters. They made it work, though.

LabRat, the Daedalus already made it to Atlantis (season premiere ep), and I forget the commander's name, but it's not Hammond.

PJ

Ah, I see - we're at cross purposes because we're talking about two different shows. <g>

I don't watch Atlantis, so I was basing my speculation on the events in Avalon solely. Daniel was packing to join the Daedalus at the start of the episode and because of Vala's intervention missed the boat, so to speak. Mitchell regretfully told him when he woke up in the infirmary that 'the Daedalus left two hours ago' - without him. Dashing his hopes of going to Atlantis yet again.

Obviously, if Atlantis picked up on that one hour later in its premiere and Hammond wasn't on board, then that scotchs that theory. But as I don't watch Atlantis, having given up on it early in S1, I wasn't aware of that to factor it into my earlier posts.

I really, really hate that, btw. Sorry, Pam. <g> I want to watch a show because it interests me and I enjoy it. Not because I'm forced to by TPTB mixing and matching between the two so that if I don't watch one I have no idea what's happening in the other. :p

Not that I'm watching it anyway. <G> And so far the missing details in SG1 have been about things which I don't really care about - like the ships or the puddlejumpers or whatever - so I haven't noticed any lack or tendancy to be confused. But if it gets to the point where something I see in SG1 makes no sense because I haven't watched Atlantis, I will be a very, very unhappy bunny.


And LOL, Bettina. Obssessed covers it, I think. <g> And not a Farscape fan, no. Watched the odd episode but never really got into it. I'm glad of that, as I said earlier, because it means I come fresh to the characters of Vala and Mitchell with no echoes to get in the way. Which definitely helped me with the transition.


LabRat

Okay, it seems that I have to take back some of the things I said earlier in this post. You all were right in giving this new season a chance - well, I couldn't just pass up a CD with the first two episodes, Avalon 1 + 2. But I also have to say, that it seems like a completely different series and that will take some time of getting used to.

This whole thing with the Ori is pretty strange, in fact there are lots of changes I didn't have a clue like the doctor being the General's daughter. Then like said before, the whereabouts of Gen. O'Neill wasn't mentioned on the show yet, LtCol Carter is mentioned as the main-cast and only had a few screen-seconds in that one.

In these first two episodes were quite a few action/adventure scenes which didn't automatically mean a gunfight - one bonuspoint for the show

Oh and about Col. Mitchell ... there's something about him, I admit that. It's a good thing, he's a bit brighter than Jack else he and Teal'c would be rather smashed now. His introducing scenes with Gen. Landry aren't bad either. I think in time he can become a new lead figure of the SG-1 show. There's a noticeable effort of his character to take over the position of the sg1-leader without coming across as a heartless by the books officer.

So a short summary: it isn't half as bad as I expected, there are continuously humorous glimpses in the show .. but I still miss my Jack Oh and the credits are kind of missing (or were cut off in my version, too bad)!

They're doing abbreviated credits so far (on SG-1 and Atlantis) -- I figure they don't want to give away how the line of main characters will shake out, and that "real" credits will kick in within the next few episodes. Plus, with Amanda Tapping out on maternity leave, they can't have many shots of her with the new guy.

So the doctor is the general's daughter? I must have missed that <g> I was thinking more along the lines of "ex-wife"! But she seems cool so far, anyway.

And I liked Cameron's attempt to shoot the alien device -- that's exactly what Jack would have done

PJ

Well, recalling that scene I don't think that it was told clearly but there WAS a mention of the General's daughter to Vala .. and via google I've found my suspicion confirmed on some Australian fanpage.

By the way, is it just me or does SG-1 look like a big mix of tvshow-rejects. There's obviously the Cameron/Vala couple from Farscape and now that I've got a closer look at the General's daughter I noticed her source in Andromeda. That can be seconded only by a Kevin Sorbo special appearance as Hercules .. sorry, Dylan Hunt

Actually, according to what I read on Gateworld, SciFi insisted on 10 second intros. Something about more ad time.

I did not get the impression that the doctor was related to the General at all. I was thinking ex-wife, too. I'm going to have to go rewatch that scene again.

Of course, the actress is Lexa Doig of Andromeda, who met her husband, Michael Shanks, when he guest starred on that show.

I'm not surprised the shows now have ten second beginning credits. It seems most shows on network TV are like that, too. So not only are the credits getting shorter but the shows are as well. Just a few years ago, one hour shows were 46 minutes long. Then they dropped to 44 minutes. Now they're down to 42 minutes, all so the networks can pile on more commercials that we fast-forward through with our TiVo's and VCR's. In another couple of years, they'll probably drop to 35 minutes.

Yeah, Karen's right, unfortunately. SciFi insisted on the new 10 seconds titles - it enables them to cram an extra 50 seconds of ads into the hour. Apparently they were given the idea by new shows such as Lost, which have minimalist titles.

I personally think they suck big time. They've apparently made new 1 minute versions for syndication, so I'm hoping that our SKY will use those instead.

Have to say that I'm reserving judgement on Avalon II. I found I didn't enjoy it as much as part one - although the last half hour had me hooked more. I thought the King Arthur cave part was dealt with very swiftly! But I was watching on a teensy little, pretty dark 90mb download and missed a lot of the nuances as a result. So I rather suspect I'll enjoy it much more when I get to see it properly in September.

Glad it wasn't as bad as you feared, Bettina!

Many of us know that Dr. Carolyn Lam is Colonel Landry's daughter through spoilers. But so far there's been no clear indication of that on screen, so you guys haven't missed anything. They're dragging it out as a surprise element, it seems to me. In fact, come to think of it, actually I know they are, because some of TPTB in Gateworlds blogs/Q&A etc have spoken of Landry's 'big secret that has yet to be revealed' and it's clear they were talking about Lam.

There were hints in their conversation in Avalon II that they have some kind of relationship beyond professional - Lam was too informal with Landry for example than if he'd simply been her superior officer. I figure in the coming weeks we'll get more hints until this 'big secret' is clearly revealed.

For now, if you haven't read the spoilers, I suspect you're supposed to be thinking at this point, "Hmmmmmm...there's something going on between those two...but what?"


LabRat

I'm enjoying Avalon, but it's mostly set-up.

I personally wasn't too happy with the tests. They could have done a much better job, IMHO.

I came up with an answer to Daniel's riddle where you switch the pots, and thereby symbolically switch the nouns in the sentences. "The universe is inside this pot." "The treasure is infinite." It's a riddle about knowledge. Given inifinite knowledge about a single point (and sufficient time and processing power), you can extrapolate the rest of the universe. But, even knowing where everything in the universe is, there's still a lot more to learn.

I think that would have been a much better solution than basing Daniel's on an ancient proverb and Mitchel's on a pun. Wasn't too happy about the next phase being trial by combat, either.

The thing is... that whole cave resolution seemed kind of perfunctory. "Okay, ancient knowledge... needs a test. Let's throw something together and get past it so we can move on to the rest of the plot."

I'm curious about the Ori, though. Their nature, their intentions, their role.

Oh, and poor Teal'c. There's a lot of potential for good plot (or subplot) there, but I feel bad for him, seeing him torn between loyalties and watching everything he worked for start to turn sour...

Anyway, we're having some fun discussions over on the TV Show Boards Stargate Boards . It's quiet, but polite and interesting. (I go by my initials there, BTW... Just the way I started out with that whole section of boards, and... *shrug*)

As for Landry... Yeah, I was thinking ex-wife, too, from that last comment as she was walking out the door. Anyway, looks to be an interesting dynamic. It'll be cool to see it in action.

Paul

P.S. Atlantis is, IMO, looking weaker this season (though still watchable), but are there any Gallactica fans here?

I loved the Gallactica pilot movie. It really fired me up to watch the series. Then, after a few episodes I got bored and irritated - there were so many things that just didn't make sense to me - so I lost interest. The only storylines that still interested me were the ones with Sharon on the ship/on Caprica.

Then, I happened to catch the S1 finale. And, of course, as they always do, they pulled out all the stops and hyped everything up to end with, in the hopes of you tuning in for S2. Well, it worked. <g> As with the end of the movie, the cliffhanger had me desperate to watch the S2 premiere. So I gave it a second go.

Did find the first episode really good. But got so bored during the second that I switched it off and didn't watch the rest.

So I guess it's just not for me.

Yes, that was my problem with it. It just seemed like an awful lot of episode time spent just to come up with the device they needed and the puzzles/predicament seemed to be solved way too easily in the end. I was surprised, in fact, that after fighting the knight, Mitchell declared something to the effect that it 'had to be over', as though he'd gone through a lot. The fight seemed to be done and dusted in two seconds and without much effort really. Personally, I think that big, bad knight was a bit of a wuss.


LabRat

I was going to stay out of this discussion because I'm not an avid fan of any of the shows, and often miss them due to real life. But then I thought, what the heck, it beats mowing the grass.

Of the three I prefer Galactica. The tone is a bit darker, and while the stories are very much character driven there is still a fair amount of action in the show. The diversity of the subplots is also a point of enjoyment. The Sharon 'dilemna' is fun and I like Starbuck's mercurial character. I greatly dislike Baltar and Six (but then I guess I'm supposed to).

It's true that Atlantis is the weak sister of the trio. I think that's mainly because of a weaker cast. Outside of Tori Higginson, (who I like a lot) the rest of the cast doesn't hold much interest for me.

I don't have any history with Farscape so Ben and Claudia come in with no past baggage. I always liked Lexa in the occasional episodes of Andromeda that I've seen over the years. Still, as the doctor I don't see her being a big part of the show. The biggest problem that I see with Stargate is that it's gotten awfully 'talky' over the last couple of years. All the problems have gotten beyond the one episode excursions and have moved into these universe altering situations which have depersonalized the action.

Tank (who seems to recall that Farscape had a different male lead when it first started... didn't it?)

No, I'm pretty sure Ben Browder was the original lead for Farscape. Certainly his character was -- the whole show was about an Earth guy stuck in a completely alien situation -- and I don't think any other actor was playing it.

PJ

Bettina, I was trawling around Gateworld today for the first time in ages (been avoiding spoiler temptation <G>), and it seems that perhaps the information on O'Neill's future has been intriguingly updated.

Last I'd heard, Jack was taking over Homeworld Security from Hammond. This led to a lot of concerned speculation from fans as to what has happened to Hammond if he's not still in that job.

But, now I'm reading:

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That Hammond is still in charge of Homeworld Security for the Air Force and will be guesting in the mid-season two parter The Fourth Horseman. And that Jack is to take over a companion, parallel civil organisation working in conjunction with HS.

Did you note that intriguing little word 'civilian'?

It's certainly got my hopes up and my imagination going.

I'm still trying to find out where this comes from and if it's a kosher spoiler from TPTB, mind you, but it is interesting all the same.

LabRat

Well, while I try not to crush your hopes, a look at the imdb unfortunately shows that RDA isn't in the cast anymore. The only thing he's working on right now are some voice-samples for a videogame.

Anyways, your version would be much more preferable The 'civilian' part of your theory would be useless though, as he and Sam (or any other female character in the military) are no longer under the same chain of command, those fraternization rules don't apply anymore.

Oh, I know he isn't, Bettina. RDA's last on screen appearance in the show (at least in the near future) is in the upcoming episode, Origins.

But TPTB have said that the character of O'Neill will be kept alive in the show, even though he's not on screen. So an onscreen reference to a happy ship ending happening offscreen means the same to me as seeing it on screen. In fact, I'd actually prefer to have it happen offscreen. Then, I can make it work the way I want to in my head.

And the civilian reference harks back to the S8 episode, Threads. But maybe you haven't seen that one yet? If so, I won't spoil the significance of it for you. So read no further if you don't want to be spoiled.

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In Threads, Jack is temporarily in a relationship with a CIA agent called Kerry. Towards the end of the episode, Kerry breaks off the relationship, citing Jack's feelings for Sam as the reason. As she leaves his office, she offers some advice:

KERRY: Good. (She smiles and walks towards the door, then turns and puts her hands on her hips.) You know, there’s just one thing I don’t understand.

O’NEILL: Just one?

KERRY: Is the Air Force the only thing keeping you two apart? Rules and regulations? Cos if it is, you’re making a very big mistake.

O’NEILL: And you know what I should do?

KERRY: Retire.

O’NEILL: Again.

KERRY: Don’t get me wrong – you are considered invaluable to the programme by the Pentagon, but the President has appointed a civilian to run the SGC before. (Jack nods.) Just a thought. (She leaves the room, leaving Jack looking pensive and bothered by what she’s made him think about.)

(Transcript credited to Stargate Transcripts )

So, as you can see, the news that Jack may have resigned from the Air Force to take on a civilian command (if not the SGC) at the start of S9, not long after this conversation with Kerry towards the end of S8, does provide some intriguing speculation on his intentions towards a relationship with Sam. Might not be panning out that way, but, hey, we can hope the two are connected.

LabRat

Uhm, no I haven't seen that episode yet but to be up to date there has been some reading before I started watching season 9. The german channel started airing some episodes from s8 up to Icon/Avatar and then suddenly reverted to s6 eps (sucks to live here sometimes).

I don't know much about that civilian angle, Jack's short time relationship fell apart because of his feelings for Sam and her former girlfriend talked about him resigning to bypass the chain of command problem. Well, to my knowledge this was solved by his promotion to another command as well. There's just the problem of geographical distance from this situation.

I think the significance of the civilian thing for me, is how it speaks to Jack's intentions regarding Sam. Resigning from the AF would be a huge deal for him and I can't see him taking a civilian command lightly. So if he has done and taken Kerry's advice, it tells me that he's serious about wanting to begin a relationship with Sam and that that's the most important thing in his life, rather than his career. Which would be big deal for this character, I think.

Although, having said that, just realised that he is wearing his AF uniform in the trailer for Origins. Course, could be from a Mitchell flashback, I guess.

LabRat (getting more eager to see next week's episode by the minute )

I just watched the third part of Avalon in my lunch break - or Origin as it was named.

Actually I only have on conclusion of it: The Ori seem to make an amazing opponent not only for humans but for the whole universe known so far.

Oh by the way, Jack was in again And it looks like he was indeed promoted again to Major General.

Yes, the Orii are terribly creepy. But then I've always been particularly wigged-out by the idea of burning to death...

PJ

Well, I was both seriously disappointed in Origin and mightily ticked off. :p

I'm afraid I don't find the Ori especially interesting, intriguing and definitely not threatening. Yawned all the way through. They seem pretty much interchangeable from each other and about as animated as a block of cement. At least the Goa'uld had personality. So much for TPTB trailing them as scarier than the Goa'uld. I'm afraid that unless they get a serious personality transplant it doesn't bode well for my enjoyment of this season. Especially as TPTB seem to have put all of their eggs in just two baskets - Ori stories and Jaffa stories, with very little in the way of even standalone episodes to balance them out. If you're bored with both elements and don't find them intriguing, you're pretty much cooked for enjoying S9, it seems.

Everything about this one was disappointing for me. It was, for me, flat, lacking in any dramatic tension or thrills. The only real jeopardy in it was a rehash of last week's jeopardy. Last week it worked for Vala because it was shocking and unexpected. Daniel and Vala's reactions were heartbreaking and real and emotional. This week, it was just, been there, done that. Even Daniel and Vala seemed to feel that way. They could barely work up a flicker of concern as they watched those flames creep closer, let alone terror.

And not one word said about the fact that they managed to get two people who did absolutely nothing wrong burned to death, through meddling with devices they don't understand. I expected Daniel at least to show something - guilt, remorse, regret? But nope. Nada. No one seemed to give a stuff that they'd just gotten two innocent people killed.

The other major irritation was the ridiculous grandstanding by Landry in the gateroom when he received the call about Daniel and Vala. Lousy scriptwriting there. Why use all those words to tell Mitchell and Teal'c they were okay, when a couple would have done? Couldn't he just have said "They're awake"? or even "Lam says they're awake?" That he went all around the houses to tell them the vital point that they were okay made the man look like a complete sadist.

Already bored rigid with the Jaffa plotline and not looking forward to more of the same as we go through the season. Bleah.

And I'm really annoyed that they seem to be dealing with major cast changes and events on screen in spoilers only. That just makes me livid. We still have no idea (unless we've read the spoilers) why Landry is suddenly in charge at the SGC, where Jack is going, why he decided to give up his SGC command...and so on. That should have been dealt with in Avalon I. I was prepared to give them leeway in the expectation it would at least be covered by Origin. Origin is, far as I'm aware RDA's final appearance on screen for the show. When are they going to fill us in? The finale? S10? Never?

There are some fans suggesting these details may be filled in in Beachead, with Sam's return, or even later in the season. But for me that will be far too late. These details aren't something you should be eking out as plot 'surprises' over a season imo. These are vital details that deal with a huge transition that's occurred in the hiatus between the S8 finale and the S9 premiere. Details that should be gotten out of the way ASAP. That they chose not to do that, just annoys the hell out of me.

Anyway...rant over. <g> Still looking forward to next week in the hopes that we'll get better. And to Beachead. Maybe Sam will perk things up for me.

LabRat

Hm, interesting opinion. While I concur with your thoughts about their lack of personality, there are also some pointers which can be explored nicely.
The whole historical background around the Ancients and their work to 'hide' the human race and their galaxies from the Ori is one of the many things, Daniel will definitely look into. Their arrogance and power reminded me of the Goa'uld in the beginning of the series, their collective consciousness on the other hand is a trait from the Borg. Last but not least, there's also this kind of 'resistance' group which Fannis is part of.
Okay, sounds not like a first class plot (yes, that was looking better in Avalon pt 2) but there are options. IMO it's difficult too, inventing a new evil force after more or less finding peace with the Jaffa.

Yep, I can second this. At times, both of them looked rather bored than scared or terrified. But I think that doesn't really matter as there was a scene very similar to the one in Avalon pt 2, so not even good acting could make this entertaining.

Well, gateworld has some spoiler for 'RIPPLE EFFECT' which is probably episode #13: "...may see the return of a much-loved, sorely-missed character" and "...we'll see plenty of Carter in this episode".
I think that this has to be some kind of main-cast-character and there aren't that much out of the show since Carter will return a few eps earlier. For some shipper-fans there are surely some hints so satisfy their needs and one can hope that with "long gone" they mean Gen. O'Neill - at least to me it already feels that way

Yeah, see this is part of my boredom, because I've really never been interested in the backhistory of the Ancients at all. This will be the interesting part of this for those fans who are interested in this angle though, I agree. But it's just not intriguing for me, unfortunately.

And there are too many been there, done that echoes to all of that. Fannis and the resistance - read Tok'ra, for example. So I don't feel I'm getting to see anything new and fresh. But then that's really very hard to do in a TV show. Especially one that been on the air for nine seasons. So although I'm sad and frustrated and annoyed that I'm bored, I do have some sympathy for the writers, too. It was never going to be an easy task.

Yes, I'll confess that my hopes for the Ori weren't high to start with even before S9 began. They would have had to have come up with something hugely original and fresh to make them surpass the Goa'uld for sheer spookiness and jeopardy (and even the Goa'uld weren't half as threatening in later seasons as they were in the first few) and I really suspected they couldn't pull it off. Still somewhat disappointed though to find out I was right.

For me, the Goa'uld were the Borg. Because they both had that extra element that really gave me chills. They wouldn't just kill you. They could take you over, make you turn against those you were loyal to and cared about. A real fate worse than death. And, in fact, the Goa'uld were worse than the Borg for that angle because at least if you were turned into a Borg you didn't remember (or most didn't) your previous humanity and history. The Goa'uld could make you live in a corner of your mind, helpless to act, powerless to stop them, and make you torture or kill your friends with your own hands, do unspeakable things, for hundreds of years. And that was truly terrifying.

The Ori? They can kill you. So, I tend to think - big deal. Unless, I missed something. Which, considering how bored I was watching Origin, isn't unlikely. I know they took over the (Prior?) at the end and turned him into a (doci?). But, again, even if they can do that to you, that's just aping the Goa'uld. It's not anything we've not seen already. So that doesn't really impress me either as regards to how huge a threat they are.

I do want to add something I did like about Origin though, which I forgot to do earlier. And that's the relationship of Daniel and Vala. There have been the inevitable calls for ship between them from some fans, but I really don't see them that way. I see them more in the sense that TPTB apparently do from what's been said. Big brother, younger annoying sister. And the reactions of Daniel to her - that exasperation and irritation mixed with fond indulgence, is very cute to watch.

That's mostly why I'm looking forward to next week and Ties That Bind. Seeing them working together has always been fun so far.

As for Ripple Effect - I've been avoiding reading too much about that one as that was the one thing I decided I wasn't going to know about till I watched the episode. Who the returnee was. So I have no idea who it is, haven't read any spoilers etc.

I hadn't considered it being Jack and I supposed it could be, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that RDA isn't contracted for any more episodes this year. Course, they could be telling us that, just so it's a surprise. So anything is possible.

I think most fans are tending to look further back than Jack though. To Frasier or Skaara perhaps. Both of whom would definitely come under the category of much-loved and much-missed. Or even Jacob or Martouf. My money, for the moment, would be on Frasier. We know it's not a permanent return, but only for that one episode, so all bets are off really. Could be anyone from the past.

Hmmmmmmm. You've got me wondering now. If it's a ship episode focusing on Carter...okay, my money's off Frasier and on to Martouf. <G> Or Narim. (Although I get the impression he was less 'ML/MM' and fans were more ambivulent about him and his relationship with Sam than they were about Martouf, so maybe not)

Didn't I say I wasn't going to speculate on this? <sigh> I'm hopeless.

LabRat

The thing about the Ori is that they're evil ascended. They have actual power (unlike the Goa'uld, who relied mainly on stolen technology), and they're willing to use it. They are more powerful and dangerous than the Goa'uld, and they're a lot more interesting (IMO) than the Wraith.

I guess, if you're not that interested in the Ancients, though, that doesn't really do much for you.

Still, how do you feel about Oma and Skaara? They're both ascended beings who, unlike the others, are willing to help out, despite the rules. I have a feeling we'll be hearing from both before the season is over.

As for Jack... I agree that they're stretching it out a bit much. I'd have preferred that it be explained right away, that we at least know as much as Daniel about it. I'm not hugely annoyed, though, because (a) there's enough other stuff going on (b) it's gotten so little screen time in general (no pun intended) that I'm finding I don't mind not knowing.

Oh, and there is room for a bit more than just Ori and Jaffa. For one thing, I'm hoping we'll get to learn a bit more about Merlin and Avalon.

Paul

I think Merlin and Avalon have been pretty much dealt with, Paul. They seem to have just been convenient props to get that device and won't be mentioned again. Which is rather a shame in my book. Especially when TPTB spent so much time hyping up this King Arthur angle before the season started in spoilers, as though it would be a strong feature and main element of the season.

Although, of course, spoilers are often wrong and until we see the rest of the season we won't know for sure. But for now, there's not much we know about the first three quarters of episodes which appears to include them. I think Gateworld has details up now of all but the last couple of episodes and none of them seem to include the Avalon theme in them.

EDIT: Okay, just checked that and they have 17 episodes up now, so there are a few out there in the wind still that we know nothing about. The focus for the majority of the season does appear to be the Ori and Jaffa Nation almost exclusively though.

I'd probably be more interested in Merlin and Avalon than the Ori and the Jaffa, I have to say.

Oma episodes were always among my least favourites. Wasn't really interested in her as a character or the whole Zen thing/ascensions/ancients. Absolute Power is an episode I kind of enjoy, but it's not among my top ten. And the reasons I enjoy it have nothing to do with whatsisname. The kid. I like watching the warping of the relationship between Jack and Daniel in that one. The Oma elements leave me pretty cold.

Skaara was different because I loved him as a character long before he ascended in S6. Since he's been ascended we haven't seen that much of him and when we do it's nicely nostalgic. But I much preferred him when he was alive.

EDIT: Going back for a moment to Daniel and Vala - just caught the teaser for Ties That Bind and LOL! Seems to be lots of what I'm talking about and love about them most in this one. Now I'm really looking forward to it!

LabRat

I meant to post these yesterday. They're video protests from fans over the cutting of the opening titles. The first is SGA (she was so ticked off that she lengthened the credits in protest <g>):

Take That, SciFi

And the second is SG1. You can access it from here, complete with instructions:

I\'m Too Sexy...

They certainly made me chuckle. And the SGA one is superbly done - you can't see the joins. As someone who doesn't watch SGA, I couldn't tell these weren't the real credits until very late on. I swear they should hire this Gater - this makes me actually want to watch SGA! <G>


LabRat

Hmm, the fourth episode was as different to the previous ones as it could get. My personal favourite part was Vala's "miss me?" - all of what did come later was no more than an effort to raise sympathies for the new main-characters and the new-formed team.

Vala is a strange yet funny lady which I like more with each time I see her on the screen. Daniel got someone to kid around with and the poor LtCol. Mitchell keeps being reminded of his similarity to Jack.

My conclusion is that there are not that much topics that can be addressed besides the Ori - less than I thought before in fact. The predictability of some plots is a problem too, like the SGC-finances (though I have to admit that Vala's comment about the 'little man' was hilarious).

Well, I really enjoyed this one. Although there were few points at which I felt I was actually watching Stargate. But, hey, for a show I've not seen much of before, it was cool

I get the feeling, in fact, that it's not going to seem like Stargate - or probably more accurately SG1 - until Sam returns and Vala leaves.

But all the same this was a fun romp. Once again, I'm loving watching Daniel and Vala's relationship. I think my favourite bits were her assessment of the SAC Chairman - I thought I was going to break a rib laughing - and Vala's 'found your glasses' had almost the same effect. Not to mention the scene in Daniel's room. Huge kudos to MS and CB there - their performances were wonderful and rich in naunces. I just loved it.

I'd groaned when I read about the SAC thing. Hadn't we seen this before? More than once? And Kinsay did it so venomously well how could anyone else top that? But the new angle on this old theme - not closing down the SGC but focusing the budget on Atlantis instead because that was where the tech was and reducing the SGC to ticking over - actually made sense for Washington and was realistic. That's just how they would think, isn't it? So it was, to my surprise, fresh and new and it worked for me.

What can I say? It was cute, hilarious and a fun way to spend an hour. Oh and not an Orii in sight. . What more could you want?

LabRat

Oh, Labby, you need to start watching SGA! It is just as good as SG1 (and this is coming from someone that didn't think anything was better than SG1, aside from LnC, of course!)

With the beginning of the second season, they are starting to blend the two shows. Hey, they even had a grumpy, muttering Asgardian!

James

Unfortunately, I find it boring, James. <g> I watched it from the pilot, enjoyed the pilot actually, but then found myself bored rigid for an hour pretty quickly thereafter. I had given up on recording the show by about episode 6 and stopped watching altogether by episode 9.

I haven't read anything in spoilers since that has made me interested enough to go back to it. I can't work up much interest in many of the characters - the only two I could bear to watch were MacKay (who I adored in SG1) and...um...Carson is it? The Scottish one. Who just cracks me up laughing. But neither is enough to make me sit in front of the screen for an hour each week.

So I am less than pleased to hear that they are starting to cross the two shows in this second season. And if they take it to the stage where things which happen in SG1 make no sense because I haven't seen the relevent Atlantis episode, you'll hear a small nuclear explosion going off in central Scotland. :p :rolleyes:

Ahem.

On the other hand...and having said all that...I did catch the odd moment of some S1 episodes recently and found them...not as boring as I recalled them being.

This could be another case of LabRat hates a show for no good reason and then discovers she adores it around about S4, leading to much scrabbling around trying to find the episodes she's missed...

I have a bad feeling.

LabRat (who might even get the recorder fired up for the rest of S1's reruns on C5. Just, in case, you know, I might watch it...maybe... )

I record and watch 3 shows now. SG1, Atlantis, and Galactica. Of the three, IMO, Atlantis is the weakest. It's still fun, but it's more action than substance.

I mentioned this on another board I visit, and someone pointed out that it took SG1 a few seasons to hit its stride. Which is fair enough, I suppose. We'll see.

In any case, Atlantis introduced some new characters this season. The young asgaurd, Hermiod, is pretty fun, but doesn't get much screen time. The new team member, Ronon, well... he's not exactly a Gary Stu, but he's not far off. Basically, he's a fighter. The best darned fighter there is. With big muscles and a cool gun which may well be the last of its kind. I'm hoping they actually develop him some more, but for now, he's a fighter who can pull off all sorts of stunts because he's Ronon and he can do that. Basically, he's an edgier version of Teal'c without the charm.

We'll see. Last week's ep was pretty fun. All about McKay. A lot of laughs and no Ronon at all. This week... back to the action, it seems, but I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt.

So... might be worth checking out again, Lab, but I think you've got reason to be wary, too.

(Obviously, we all have our own tastes and different things work for different people.)

Paul

Labby, if you like McKay and Carson Beckett, then you need to watch this past week's episode. I'm still laughing about one scene in there.

I clarify my previous comment. As good as SG-1, in the beginning, which can only mean it can get better.

now, if they would cut the short credit crap...

Yes, I second that, Karen. Atlantis was *much* funnier than the previews suggested. I haven't got it on tape but I might try to download it somewhere; it was definitely good enough to watch twice. McKay was a riot and of course Carson is always cool. And I liked whatshername -- Laura? The actor must have had a ball with this episode.

PJ

Actually, I have that one on my hd. I keep dl them along with SG1 each week, but so far they haven't gotten more than past the 'titles' and I've just deleted the file unwatched in the main. But I'll definitely check it out, thanks for the headsup! Carson's typical Glaswegian 'taking no prisoners when it comes to fools' really makes me laugh. (Yes, I know he's from Paisley, but it's close enough and the attitude is definitely Glaswegian <G>)

Pam, try here

It's a site with a strange little system, but once you're in it's good. They dl SG1, BG and SGA each week. If you are in a rush to get it, on Saturday, you have to post 10 posts to the forum. Then you get to see an extra folder which was invisible before and that's where the dls are. If you don't mind waiting till Sunday, you don't have to make the posts and you'll get them in another folder on the forum then.

I have to say though that it's a nice friendly little site and I didn't find having to make 10 posts any great hardship.

Of course, by now, the files are in both folders, so there's no need to go posting anything, you can pick them up in the Sunday folder.

They only keep the files up for 72 hours though, so if you want Friday's, you'll need to be quick. It's still there as of this post.


LabRat

Well, I watched it <g> and, yes, it was a laugh riot. "Fumbles McStupid" And that scene with Carson while poor Rodney was asleep - Naughty Cadman. LOL. Cadman was hilarious all round, actually. And, of course, the kiss. ROTFL.

Question though. Why is Weir in charge? I thought the military had taken over command of Atlantis?

Also watched last week's BG and really enjoyed that too. I think I'm beginning to appreciate how dramatic and dark this series is. Found myself keen to find out what happens next. And perhaps taping it when it premieres over here in the autumn. Guess it's growing on me.

LabRat

The civilians are still in charge. The captain of the Daedalus, whose name I forget, is now the senior military commander, taking over from Sheppard.

Washington doesn't want the military in charge. Remember just this last SG-1 episode where they were saying SG Command was being de-emphasized partly because the guys in Congress didn't have control of it. The other reason was the they felt the Pegasus Galaxy was where more technology was likely to be found, but part of it was control. The civilians in Washington feel they can only have a say-so with a civilian in charge. So Weir stays.

It's kind of odd. Weir is in charge of the civillian side of the expedition. She's basically the mayor of Atlantis. Or governor or something. It's the way it was set up from the beginning because Atlantis was supposed to be about science, exploration, and meeting new people, with the military there pretty much "just in case."

Now they're in a war, with more military support, but, perhaps because of the international nature of the mission, it was decided to keep the civillian "government" in place. (Besides which, most of the actual personell are civillian -- Beckett, Zelinka, etc.)

Sheppard, though, is still in charge of the Atlantis military. Weir insisted on it, and got him promoted so he could officially take the position. Caldwell is in charge of the Daedelus.

It's confusing and probably not that realistic, but basically, you've got two military chains of command. Sheppard is in charge of the people on the ground. Caldwell is in charge of the fleet. Both report to Weir, who takes their military opinions under advisement but has final say.

Paul

Caldwell is still the senior officer, though. In the previous episode, Caldwell was ordering Sheppard around. He's a Colonel while Sheppard is a Lt. Colonel, so he's outranked whenever Caldwell is at Atlantis.

Thanks, guys. Sounds strange, but I guess it's not all that different from when Weir was in charge at the SGC.

LabRat

Wohooo, just saw episode 5 - only one more week till Sam is back!

I'm still dl ep 5, but I just watched the trailer for next week and got terribly excited just seeing those two seconds of Sam zip past.

Oh, doesn't it look great seeing her and Daniel, in their uniforms, making last minute adjustments before stepping through the gate on a mission? <happy sigh> Also, must say, I find Mitchell's constant references to the team as a band getting back together quite amusing. I can just see Teal'c on drums.

LabRat

Now there is a visual image to contemplate...

James

No, I see Teal'c as a bass player. That cool, reserved demenor is tailor made for a bassist.

Drummers are more manic.

Tank (who can only see Daniel's role in a band as a techie)

Daniel could be Sam's back-up singer <g>

PJ

Thankfully yesterday's 6th episode was loaded with action again ... and Sam is back! Yay!!

Unfortunately the gist of the episode was relatively boring with the ori starting to advance into this galaxy, the Goa'Uld being impatient and untrusting as ever and SG-1 dumbtalking and watching Sam fishing for answers and solutions. If you leave the idea of a gigantic Stargate between galaxies aside, that episode was a mirror image of the first 7 seasons.

Well, at least they had some success this week, unlike last week where the Orii wiped the deck with them. Although technically it was Vala who saved the day, while SG-1 stood around with their thumbs in their ears... I'm gonna miss her, I think...

But yay, we got the band back together!

PJ

I actually found the Orii much more interesting in the last two episodes - still no trace of any shivers down the spine, mind you.

I did enjoy this one. Given your posts above, Pam, I laughed double-hard at Sam's "What's with the backup singer?" remark.

It was just great to see Sam back.

I loved the 'Jack' moments (could just see the smirk on his face when he put the phone down on teasing Landry).

Liked Landry much better this week. I liked him in Avalon but since then I've found it hard to get a handle on his character and he's often seemed quite bland. Maybe it was just the difference between giving him something to do besides admin stuff. I enjoyed his interactions with the Goa'uld (who was a lot of fun himself).

Vala and Daniel were a hilarious double act as usual. Yes I'm going to miss her too, but I'm sure she'll turn up later in the season, or even in a later season, alive and well and having turned the situation to her advantage as usual. Although, I think her leaving was a necessary evil, because I was getting the definite feeling the team weren't going to get back together until she did, I wouldn't mind her popping back for the odd single episode here and there in the future, at all.

I was a bit disappointed with the lack of personal character beats in this one. Or, let's say, I would have been if I hadn't suspected in advance that TPTB were going to stiff us on that angle again and was very firmly not expecting to see them so I wouldn't be. The official summary for this episode claimed 'Sam returns to the SGC, despite mixed feelings and personal issues' Where? Where were those? I didn't see any trace of that. She appeared at the SGC as ordered, jumped right in, got on with it. I hate that they keep doing that to us this season, promising these things then not delivering. Especially as it's these character beats which I enjoy most in the show.

I didn't really see much team in this one - Sam acted more as an advisor. But it's the start, and I'm looking forward to team from this point on and seeing how the characters bond with Mitchell. Who I hope begins to come into his own now. He's been overshadowed a bit and shoved into the background by Vala. Which wasn't a mistake, I don't think. I think I'd have resented him coming in strong right from the start. I like the slow build up, but I'm at the point now where I'd like to see him start to take charge.

Talking of which...interesting that he introduced himself as the leader of SG1. There's been a huge debate among fans as to who would lead the team and whether Mitchell would usurp Carter's place. Looks like we have the answer to that. Not sure how I feel about that.

Oh and last thing, I

LabRat

Well, because I had to work late I missed the 7 pm showing of the show, but I managed to fall asleep during the 10 pm repeat.

Must've been a real exciting episode.

Tank (who finds very little entertainment value in watching McKay acting the jerk and has to admit that Galactica has it all over Stargate)

If you're talking about SGA: Trinity, Tank, I can only agree with you. I lasted about 10 minutes in and then gave up. I was highly confused, for one thing, as to how Teyla and Ronan were simultaneously on the ship with Sheppard and McKay, exploring the Ancient lab, and on a completely different planet doing some trading.

Yes, I know there was probably an explanation for this in the episode or, even more likely, I had entirely the wrong end of the stick, but it's indicative of the fact that I couldn't work up the energy to pay attention to even the first ten minutes, so never heard whatever the explanation was.

I also have to completely reverse my opinion on BSG. I have become so hooked on the dark, angsty drama of the first half of S2, that I finally caved in, admitted I was completely wrong, and ordered the mini series pilot and the boxed set of S1 just now as a treat to myself. Looking forward to catching up on the episodes I dismissed as rubbish last year.

LabRat

Actually, it was during that bathroom break you took. They briefly have everyone coming back to Atlantis and then they go their seperate ways.

Howeve, I really feel like we were manipulated on this one. It looked like they spent days working in that lab. This was intercut with Teyla and Ronan stuff that seemed to be all happening within the same 24/48 hour period. Very confusing.

Future SG-1 Spoilers

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Vala will not be in any further episodes this season, or at least not until after Ep #15.

Baal is going to be in the Ep #7.

Robert Picardo will be coming back as Agent Richard Woolsey again. in Ep #9

General Hammond will be coming back for the mid-season cliffhanger and will be in at least one more episode after that.

James