Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic New season of Stargate-SG1 (Spoilers for S8/S9)

Okay, it seems that I have to take back some of the things I said earlier in this post. You all were right in giving this new season a chance - well, I couldn't just pass up a CD with the first two episodes, Avalon 1 + 2. But I also have to say, that it seems like a completely different series and that will take some time of getting used to.

This whole thing with the Ori is pretty strange, in fact there are lots of changes I didn't have a clue like the doctor being the General's daughter. Then like said before, the whereabouts of Gen. O'Neill wasn't mentioned on the show yet, LtCol Carter is mentioned as the main-cast and only had a few screen-seconds in that one.

In these first two episodes were quite a few action/adventure scenes which didn't automatically mean a gunfight - one bonuspoint for the show

Oh and about Col. Mitchell ... there's something about him, I admit that. It's a good thing, he's a bit brighter than Jack else he and Teal'c would be rather smashed now. His introducing scenes with Gen. Landry aren't bad either. I think in time he can become a new lead figure of the SG-1 show. There's a noticeable effort of his character to take over the position of the sg1-leader without coming across as a heartless by the books officer.

So a short summary: it isn't half as bad as I expected, there are continuously humorous glimpses in the show .. but I still miss my Jack Oh and the credits are kind of missing (or were cut off in my version, too bad)!

They're doing abbreviated credits so far (on SG-1 and Atlantis) -- I figure they don't want to give away how the line of main characters will shake out, and that "real" credits will kick in within the next few episodes. Plus, with Amanda Tapping out on maternity leave, they can't have many shots of her with the new guy.

So the doctor is the general's daughter? I must have missed that <g> I was thinking more along the lines of "ex-wife"! But she seems cool so far, anyway.

And I liked Cameron's attempt to shoot the alien device -- that's exactly what Jack would have done

PJ

Well, recalling that scene I don't think that it was told clearly but there WAS a mention of the General's daughter to Vala .. and via google I've found my suspicion confirmed on some Australian fanpage.

By the way, is it just me or does SG-1 look like a big mix of tvshow-rejects. There's obviously the Cameron/Vala couple from Farscape and now that I've got a closer look at the General's daughter I noticed her source in Andromeda. That can be seconded only by a Kevin Sorbo special appearance as Hercules .. sorry, Dylan Hunt

Actually, according to what I read on Gateworld, SciFi insisted on 10 second intros. Something about more ad time.

I did not get the impression that the doctor was related to the General at all. I was thinking ex-wife, too. I'm going to have to go rewatch that scene again.

Of course, the actress is Lexa Doig of Andromeda, who met her husband, Michael Shanks, when he guest starred on that show.

I'm not surprised the shows now have ten second beginning credits. It seems most shows on network TV are like that, too. So not only are the credits getting shorter but the shows are as well. Just a few years ago, one hour shows were 46 minutes long. Then they dropped to 44 minutes. Now they're down to 42 minutes, all so the networks can pile on more commercials that we fast-forward through with our TiVo's and VCR's. In another couple of years, they'll probably drop to 35 minutes.

Yeah, Karen's right, unfortunately. SciFi insisted on the new 10 seconds titles - it enables them to cram an extra 50 seconds of ads into the hour. Apparently they were given the idea by new shows such as Lost, which have minimalist titles.

I personally think they suck big time. They've apparently made new 1 minute versions for syndication, so I'm hoping that our SKY will use those instead.

Have to say that I'm reserving judgement on Avalon II. I found I didn't enjoy it as much as part one - although the last half hour had me hooked more. I thought the King Arthur cave part was dealt with very swiftly! But I was watching on a teensy little, pretty dark 90mb download and missed a lot of the nuances as a result. So I rather suspect I'll enjoy it much more when I get to see it properly in September.

Glad it wasn't as bad as you feared, Bettina!

Many of us know that Dr. Carolyn Lam is Colonel Landry's daughter through spoilers. But so far there's been no clear indication of that on screen, so you guys haven't missed anything. They're dragging it out as a surprise element, it seems to me. In fact, come to think of it, actually I know they are, because some of TPTB in Gateworlds blogs/Q&A etc have spoken of Landry's 'big secret that has yet to be revealed' and it's clear they were talking about Lam.

There were hints in their conversation in Avalon II that they have some kind of relationship beyond professional - Lam was too informal with Landry for example than if he'd simply been her superior officer. I figure in the coming weeks we'll get more hints until this 'big secret' is clearly revealed.

For now, if you haven't read the spoilers, I suspect you're supposed to be thinking at this point, "Hmmmmmm...there's something going on between those two...but what?"


LabRat

I'm enjoying Avalon, but it's mostly set-up.

I personally wasn't too happy with the tests. They could have done a much better job, IMHO.

I came up with an answer to Daniel's riddle where you switch the pots, and thereby symbolically switch the nouns in the sentences. "The universe is inside this pot." "The treasure is infinite." It's a riddle about knowledge. Given inifinite knowledge about a single point (and sufficient time and processing power), you can extrapolate the rest of the universe. But, even knowing where everything in the universe is, there's still a lot more to learn.

I think that would have been a much better solution than basing Daniel's on an ancient proverb and Mitchel's on a pun. Wasn't too happy about the next phase being trial by combat, either.

The thing is... that whole cave resolution seemed kind of perfunctory. "Okay, ancient knowledge... needs a test. Let's throw something together and get past it so we can move on to the rest of the plot."

I'm curious about the Ori, though. Their nature, their intentions, their role.

Oh, and poor Teal'c. There's a lot of potential for good plot (or subplot) there, but I feel bad for him, seeing him torn between loyalties and watching everything he worked for start to turn sour...

Anyway, we're having some fun discussions over on the TV Show Boards Stargate Boards . It's quiet, but polite and interesting. (I go by my initials there, BTW... Just the way I started out with that whole section of boards, and... *shrug*)

As for Landry... Yeah, I was thinking ex-wife, too, from that last comment as she was walking out the door. Anyway, looks to be an interesting dynamic. It'll be cool to see it in action.

Paul

P.S. Atlantis is, IMO, looking weaker this season (though still watchable), but are there any Gallactica fans here?

I loved the Gallactica pilot movie. It really fired me up to watch the series. Then, after a few episodes I got bored and irritated - there were so many things that just didn't make sense to me - so I lost interest. The only storylines that still interested me were the ones with Sharon on the ship/on Caprica.

Then, I happened to catch the S1 finale. And, of course, as they always do, they pulled out all the stops and hyped everything up to end with, in the hopes of you tuning in for S2. Well, it worked. <g> As with the end of the movie, the cliffhanger had me desperate to watch the S2 premiere. So I gave it a second go.

Did find the first episode really good. But got so bored during the second that I switched it off and didn't watch the rest.

So I guess it's just not for me.

Yes, that was my problem with it. It just seemed like an awful lot of episode time spent just to come up with the device they needed and the puzzles/predicament seemed to be solved way too easily in the end. I was surprised, in fact, that after fighting the knight, Mitchell declared something to the effect that it 'had to be over', as though he'd gone through a lot. The fight seemed to be done and dusted in two seconds and without much effort really. Personally, I think that big, bad knight was a bit of a wuss.


LabRat

I was going to stay out of this discussion because I'm not an avid fan of any of the shows, and often miss them due to real life. But then I thought, what the heck, it beats mowing the grass.

Of the three I prefer Galactica. The tone is a bit darker, and while the stories are very much character driven there is still a fair amount of action in the show. The diversity of the subplots is also a point of enjoyment. The Sharon 'dilemna' is fun and I like Starbuck's mercurial character. I greatly dislike Baltar and Six (but then I guess I'm supposed to).

It's true that Atlantis is the weak sister of the trio. I think that's mainly because of a weaker cast. Outside of Tori Higginson, (who I like a lot) the rest of the cast doesn't hold much interest for me.

I don't have any history with Farscape so Ben and Claudia come in with no past baggage. I always liked Lexa in the occasional episodes of Andromeda that I've seen over the years. Still, as the doctor I don't see her being a big part of the show. The biggest problem that I see with Stargate is that it's gotten awfully 'talky' over the last couple of years. All the problems have gotten beyond the one episode excursions and have moved into these universe altering situations which have depersonalized the action.

Tank (who seems to recall that Farscape had a different male lead when it first started... didn't it?)

No, I'm pretty sure Ben Browder was the original lead for Farscape. Certainly his character was -- the whole show was about an Earth guy stuck in a completely alien situation -- and I don't think any other actor was playing it.

PJ

Bettina, I was trawling around Gateworld today for the first time in ages (been avoiding spoiler temptation <G>), and it seems that perhaps the information on O'Neill's future has been intriguingly updated.

Last I'd heard, Jack was taking over Homeworld Security from Hammond. This led to a lot of concerned speculation from fans as to what has happened to Hammond if he's not still in that job.

But, now I'm reading:

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That Hammond is still in charge of Homeworld Security for the Air Force and will be guesting in the mid-season two parter The Fourth Horseman. And that Jack is to take over a companion, parallel civil organisation working in conjunction with HS.

Did you note that intriguing little word 'civilian'?

It's certainly got my hopes up and my imagination going.

I'm still trying to find out where this comes from and if it's a kosher spoiler from TPTB, mind you, but it is interesting all the same.

LabRat

Well, while I try not to crush your hopes, a look at the imdb unfortunately shows that RDA isn't in the cast anymore. The only thing he's working on right now are some voice-samples for a videogame.

Anyways, your version would be much more preferable The 'civilian' part of your theory would be useless though, as he and Sam (or any other female character in the military) are no longer under the same chain of command, those fraternization rules don't apply anymore.

Oh, I know he isn't, Bettina. RDA's last on screen appearance in the show (at least in the near future) is in the upcoming episode, Origins.

But TPTB have said that the character of O'Neill will be kept alive in the show, even though he's not on screen. So an onscreen reference to a happy ship ending happening offscreen means the same to me as seeing it on screen. In fact, I'd actually prefer to have it happen offscreen. Then, I can make it work the way I want to in my head.

And the civilian reference harks back to the S8 episode, Threads. But maybe you haven't seen that one yet? If so, I won't spoil the significance of it for you. So read no further if you don't want to be spoiled.

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In Threads, Jack is temporarily in a relationship with a CIA agent called Kerry. Towards the end of the episode, Kerry breaks off the relationship, citing Jack's feelings for Sam as the reason. As she leaves his office, she offers some advice:

KERRY: Good. (She smiles and walks towards the door, then turns and puts her hands on her hips.) You know, there’s just one thing I don’t understand.

O’NEILL: Just one?

KERRY: Is the Air Force the only thing keeping you two apart? Rules and regulations? Cos if it is, you’re making a very big mistake.

O’NEILL: And you know what I should do?

KERRY: Retire.

O’NEILL: Again.

KERRY: Don’t get me wrong – you are considered invaluable to the programme by the Pentagon, but the President has appointed a civilian to run the SGC before. (Jack nods.) Just a thought. (She leaves the room, leaving Jack looking pensive and bothered by what she’s made him think about.)

(Transcript credited to Stargate Transcripts )

So, as you can see, the news that Jack may have resigned from the Air Force to take on a civilian command (if not the SGC) at the start of S9, not long after this conversation with Kerry towards the end of S8, does provide some intriguing speculation on his intentions towards a relationship with Sam. Might not be panning out that way, but, hey, we can hope the two are connected.

LabRat

Uhm, no I haven't seen that episode yet but to be up to date there has been some reading before I started watching season 9. The german channel started airing some episodes from s8 up to Icon/Avatar and then suddenly reverted to s6 eps (sucks to live here sometimes).

I don't know much about that civilian angle, Jack's short time relationship fell apart because of his feelings for Sam and her former girlfriend talked about him resigning to bypass the chain of command problem. Well, to my knowledge this was solved by his promotion to another command as well. There's just the problem of geographical distance from this situation.

I think the significance of the civilian thing for me, is how it speaks to Jack's intentions regarding Sam. Resigning from the AF would be a huge deal for him and I can't see him taking a civilian command lightly. So if he has done and taken Kerry's advice, it tells me that he's serious about wanting to begin a relationship with Sam and that that's the most important thing in his life, rather than his career. Which would be big deal for this character, I think.

Although, having said that, just realised that he is wearing his AF uniform in the trailer for Origins. Course, could be from a Mitchell flashback, I guess.

LabRat (getting more eager to see next week's episode by the minute )

I just watched the third part of Avalon in my lunch break - or Origin as it was named.

Actually I only have on conclusion of it: The Ori seem to make an amazing opponent not only for humans but for the whole universe known so far.

Oh by the way, Jack was in again And it looks like he was indeed promoted again to Major General.

Yes, the Orii are terribly creepy. But then I've always been particularly wigged-out by the idea of burning to death...

PJ

Well, I was both seriously disappointed in Origin and mightily ticked off. :p

I'm afraid I don't find the Ori especially interesting, intriguing and definitely not threatening. Yawned all the way through. They seem pretty much interchangeable from each other and about as animated as a block of cement. At least the Goa'uld had personality. So much for TPTB trailing them as scarier than the Goa'uld. I'm afraid that unless they get a serious personality transplant it doesn't bode well for my enjoyment of this season. Especially as TPTB seem to have put all of their eggs in just two baskets - Ori stories and Jaffa stories, with very little in the way of even standalone episodes to balance them out. If you're bored with both elements and don't find them intriguing, you're pretty much cooked for enjoying S9, it seems.

Everything about this one was disappointing for me. It was, for me, flat, lacking in any dramatic tension or thrills. The only real jeopardy in it was a rehash of last week's jeopardy. Last week it worked for Vala because it was shocking and unexpected. Daniel and Vala's reactions were heartbreaking and real and emotional. This week, it was just, been there, done that. Even Daniel and Vala seemed to feel that way. They could barely work up a flicker of concern as they watched those flames creep closer, let alone terror.

And not one word said about the fact that they managed to get two people who did absolutely nothing wrong burned to death, through meddling with devices they don't understand. I expected Daniel at least to show something - guilt, remorse, regret? But nope. Nada. No one seemed to give a stuff that they'd just gotten two innocent people killed.

The other major irritation was the ridiculous grandstanding by Landry in the gateroom when he received the call about Daniel and Vala. Lousy scriptwriting there. Why use all those words to tell Mitchell and Teal'c they were okay, when a couple would have done? Couldn't he just have said "They're awake"? or even "Lam says they're awake?" That he went all around the houses to tell them the vital point that they were okay made the man look like a complete sadist.

Already bored rigid with the Jaffa plotline and not looking forward to more of the same as we go through the season. Bleah.

And I'm really annoyed that they seem to be dealing with major cast changes and events on screen in spoilers only. That just makes me livid. We still have no idea (unless we've read the spoilers) why Landry is suddenly in charge at the SGC, where Jack is going, why he decided to give up his SGC command...and so on. That should have been dealt with in Avalon I. I was prepared to give them leeway in the expectation it would at least be covered by Origin. Origin is, far as I'm aware RDA's final appearance on screen for the show. When are they going to fill us in? The finale? S10? Never?

There are some fans suggesting these details may be filled in in Beachead, with Sam's return, or even later in the season. But for me that will be far too late. These details aren't something you should be eking out as plot 'surprises' over a season imo. These are vital details that deal with a huge transition that's occurred in the hiatus between the S8 finale and the S9 premiere. Details that should be gotten out of the way ASAP. That they chose not to do that, just annoys the hell out of me.

Anyway...rant over. <g> Still looking forward to next week in the hopes that we'll get better. And to Beachead. Maybe Sam will perk things up for me.

LabRat

Hm, interesting opinion. While I concur with your thoughts about their lack of personality, there are also some pointers which can be explored nicely.
The whole historical background around the Ancients and their work to 'hide' the human race and their galaxies from the Ori is one of the many things, Daniel will definitely look into. Their arrogance and power reminded me of the Goa'uld in the beginning of the series, their collective consciousness on the other hand is a trait from the Borg. Last but not least, there's also this kind of 'resistance' group which Fannis is part of.
Okay, sounds not like a first class plot (yes, that was looking better in Avalon pt 2) but there are options. IMO it's difficult too, inventing a new evil force after more or less finding peace with the Jaffa.

Yep, I can second this. At times, both of them looked rather bored than scared or terrified. But I think that doesn't really matter as there was a scene very similar to the one in Avalon pt 2, so not even good acting could make this entertaining.

Well, gateworld has some spoiler for 'RIPPLE EFFECT' which is probably episode #13: "...may see the return of a much-loved, sorely-missed character" and "...we'll see plenty of Carter in this episode".
I think that this has to be some kind of main-cast-character and there aren't that much out of the show since Carter will return a few eps earlier. For some shipper-fans there are surely some hints so satisfy their needs and one can hope that with "long gone" they mean Gen. O'Neill - at least to me it already feels that way

Yeah, see this is part of my boredom, because I've really never been interested in the backhistory of the Ancients at all. This will be the interesting part of this for those fans who are interested in this angle though, I agree. But it's just not intriguing for me, unfortunately.

And there are too many been there, done that echoes to all of that. Fannis and the resistance - read Tok'ra, for example. So I don't feel I'm getting to see anything new and fresh. But then that's really very hard to do in a TV show. Especially one that been on the air for nine seasons. So although I'm sad and frustrated and annoyed that I'm bored, I do have some sympathy for the writers, too. It was never going to be an easy task.

Yes, I'll confess that my hopes for the Ori weren't high to start with even before S9 began. They would have had to have come up with something hugely original and fresh to make them surpass the Goa'uld for sheer spookiness and jeopardy (and even the Goa'uld weren't half as threatening in later seasons as they were in the first few) and I really suspected they couldn't pull it off. Still somewhat disappointed though to find out I was right.

For me, the Goa'uld were the Borg. Because they both had that extra element that really gave me chills. They wouldn't just kill you. They could take you over, make you turn against those you were loyal to and cared about. A real fate worse than death. And, in fact, the Goa'uld were worse than the Borg for that angle because at least if you were turned into a Borg you didn't remember (or most didn't) your previous humanity and history. The Goa'uld could make you live in a corner of your mind, helpless to act, powerless to stop them, and make you torture or kill your friends with your own hands, do unspeakable things, for hundreds of years. And that was truly terrifying.

The Ori? They can kill you. So, I tend to think - big deal. Unless, I missed something. Which, considering how bored I was watching Origin, isn't unlikely. I know they took over the (Prior?) at the end and turned him into a (doci?). But, again, even if they can do that to you, that's just aping the Goa'uld. It's not anything we've not seen already. So that doesn't really impress me either as regards to how huge a threat they are.

I do want to add something I did like about Origin though, which I forgot to do earlier. And that's the relationship of Daniel and Vala. There have been the inevitable calls for ship between them from some fans, but I really don't see them that way. I see them more in the sense that TPTB apparently do from what's been said. Big brother, younger annoying sister. And the reactions of Daniel to her - that exasperation and irritation mixed with fond indulgence, is very cute to watch.

That's mostly why I'm looking forward to next week and Ties That Bind. Seeing them working together has always been fun so far.

As for Ripple Effect - I've been avoiding reading too much about that one as that was the one thing I decided I wasn't going to know about till I watched the episode. Who the returnee was. So I have no idea who it is, haven't read any spoilers etc.

I hadn't considered it being Jack and I supposed it could be, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that RDA isn't contracted for any more episodes this year. Course, they could be telling us that, just so it's a surprise. So anything is possible.

I think most fans are tending to look further back than Jack though. To Frasier or Skaara perhaps. Both of whom would definitely come under the category of much-loved and much-missed. Or even Jacob or Martouf. My money, for the moment, would be on Frasier. We know it's not a permanent return, but only for that one episode, so all bets are off really. Could be anyone from the past.

Hmmmmmmm. You've got me wondering now. If it's a ship episode focusing on Carter...okay, my money's off Frasier and on to Martouf. <G> Or Narim. (Although I get the impression he was less 'ML/MM' and fans were more ambivulent about him and his relationship with Sam than they were about Martouf, so maybe not)

Didn't I say I wasn't going to speculate on this? <sigh> I'm hopeless.

LabRat