Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Terrorist Attack in Spain

I don't usually bring up real life issues around here, but today I kind of need to let it out.

Today Spain has witnessed the biggest terrorist attack in its History. Nearly 200 dead people.

I know we're not the only country under the threat of terrorism, but that doesn't make any less brutal. We've been suffering its threat for 31 year. Most of the time, the attacks have been directed at certain social groups: politicians, military men, police forces... Some other times, it's been attacks like today's.

ETA began killing people back in 1973, but today's has been their worst attack by far. In the last three decades, they'd killed in Madrid 121 people. Today alone, the number is of 186, and it still hasn't stopped.

For me it's been particularly special because it's been close to home. YOu guys probably haven't heard of my city. It's called Alcala de Henares, and it's about 30 km. from Madrid. THe trains with the bombs had departed from our train station about 25 minutes before the explosions.The bombs had been left on board a few minutes earlier. I'm still not sure if there was anyone I know on board. But thankfully, none of my closest friends ahd taken that train today.

At first, they said they fought for freedom. Freedom to speak their language, freedom to keep their culture... Now they want freedom fro 'their country'.

Heck, I try, but I can't understand. Soemtimes you wish you could do to them what they do to the rest; that you could make them suffer the fear they put you through. But then you think it over and realize that's exactly what makes us different. Nothing justifies the murder of hundreds of people; nothing justifies the murder of even one single person.

Who needs the freedom? Them or the rest of us?

Cris

Oh Cris, that's really horrible. I hope no-one you know was on board of those trains. There are no words to describe that sort of slaughter, no explanation to justify them. That's just horrifying.

Kaethel

I'm so sorry to hear that, Cris... doesn't matter if it's "only" 186 -- that's still 186 too many. And yeah, I'll bet it's even scarier knowing that it came that close to you. {{hugs}}

Jose, are you okay?

PJ

Yup!! Mad , sad but okay...

Jose

Yeah, I heard about this on the radio on my discman while I was walking home from school. Like Pam said, no matter if it was "only" 186 people that died, it is still 186 too many. There are days like this that make us doubt the good in people, and for a while, hope disappears into a world of darkness - hope for believing in the good in people, hope for living in a better world. The terrorists do not only damage where the bomb exploded: it damages the world as a whole.

So so sad

Pelican

I'm glad to hear you're both okay, Cris and Jose. I hope all your friends are okay, too, Cris.

It's just one horrible story, getting worse by the hour. I still find it hard to believe the ETA took it this far. Hopefully, they'll be put to an end now.

Saskia

Cris and José -

My thoughts and heart go out to you and to your friends and family.

There's no words to express the frustration and sadness you must all feel over the tragic deaths of these innocent people, lives taken by those who deserve nothing but our contempt.

Lynn

OMG, it's horrible.

i'm glad to hear Cris and Jose are okay. I hope no one you knew or close to you were on board those trains.

What shocks me the most is the brutality and the scale of those attacks. ETA killing people is nothing new, but this sounds so calculated.

Plus I can't help but relating those events to the AZF threats France was confronted to a week ago. The group said the entire french railroad web had been 'hijacked' with explosives and was demanding ransom for the bombs locations.

With the highlights of Madrid's events, I can't help to think it could have happened in France, or the french railroadweb thingy was just a diversion...I don't even know why I'm saying this here, so much things are going on lately. I guess I'm a bit shaken and blaming myself for being so wrapped up into work.

Just take care,

Carole (who's now worried she didn't heard about her Madrid colleagues)

hey there again

Well, Carole, in a way, maybe. But I think it was doen out of frustration. AS ironic as it may sound, the ETA is probably going through one of its worst moments. They didn't usually do this kind of thing. THey knew who they were killing; they targeted people,, had them followed... Today the target was creating a massacre, nothing more. And that's the saddest`part.

Theirs is a fight which has become more and more unjustified with the pasing of time. They're not oppressed anymore, the can speak their language, practice their traditions... BUt it seems they never have enough, And what's worst, most of the Basque people do not agree with the separaion of the area from the rest of the country, but many are too scareed to speak their minds openly.

I've been checking some names; couldn't recognize any. There was one which seemed a little familiar... It could be the dad of a friend... But I can't tell yet. At least he's only on hte wounded list. Dont' knwo the names of any of the dead people, so...

Carole., if you want to check out names, there's a page with a list of those people who've been carried to the different hopitals the capital has:

www.mir.es (and you'll find a square on top of the page reading Victimas del atentado. I think is red)

Cris

I forgot to say that you probably needn't worry. If it helps, it happened on trains coming from the east side of Madrid adn heading towards the capital. If your friends live in Madrid, is more unlikely that they'll have been hurt.

Cris

Cris and Jose,

I saw this on the news this morning and I was absolutely horrified. I can't even put my feelings into words. I am glad the two of you are all right, and I hope everyone you know is all right, too. My thoughts are with you!

- Laura

Cris, I'm so sorry for the tragedy in your country. I mourn the deaths of your compatriots as well as those all over the world who die everyday because of the actions of a few who believe they have the right to kill and maim in the name of some particular ideology.

John Donne said, "Each man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind." It's true. We are all dehumanized a little more by every episode of killing. I hope for the day when we will no longer slauighter each other under the pretext of imposing our beliefs and ideals on others.

Jude

Cris, what an eloquent post, and how restrained you were in your anger and sorrow. I heard something about this earlier today, but at that stage the number of lives lost wasn't clear. This is, as others have said too, so very sad and also so frustrating: what on earth do they hope to achieve?!

I feel for everyone mourning friends and family as a result of this outrage.


Wendy

My thoughts are with all of you as well. The words fail me at the moment.

Thanks everyone for your nice words.

Well, we're over the 190 deaths already... It just keeps getting worse, and mroe confusing. It seems Al-Qaeda sent a letter to a Arab newspaper in the UK, claiming the attack as theirs, Operation Against the trains, or something like that.

The government here doesn't know whether to believe it or not; they're investigating because there have been other similar letters in that paper before, some which turned out to be fake...

Gosh, it's all so weird. FOrtunately, after checking the lists available, it seems there was no one I knew. Though I know there are many people really suffering now, I can't help but feel relieved.

Again thanks everyone for your words and your sympathy.

Cris

I saw that in the news today It's horrible.
Glad you're okay, guys.
AnnaBtG.

Horrible.

I'm glad the two of you are okay.

I can't help but mention how in Israel the situation is pretty similar - except for the fact that the Palestinian terrorist groups don't target their bombs at soldiers, etc - they just kill civilians. There were times when I'd come home, when I lived there, and hear about an explosion in some commercial centre, or on public transit. I actually know a guy whose older sister died this way when he was six years old. Really horrible.

Fortunately my hometown hasn't experienced anything like that yet, but they did find a bomb once - they just disarmed it on time. So I'm always worried about my family that still lives there, and I'm always sending my prayers to anyone living in a threatened zone like that.

*hugs and lots of support*

I hope this kind of thing will never happen anywhere anymore. To say something like that might seem unrealistic, but eventually we could achieve it.

Julie

Hi,

I saw the new this morning. I'm sorry for all the life lost.

I just read this.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../20040311/ap_on_re_eu/spain_tape_found_9

This bring at my memory the day a was watching TV and saw the twin tower being impact. That feeling of being unable to do something. Its mark you inside.

MAF

I saw speculation earlier (http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040311-112725-1601r) that this might be an Al Qaida attack (however the heck you spell that!), because it doesn't match the MO of the local terrorists. And it'd be just like Al Q to want to kill as many people as possible, regardless of who they are

Maria, I know; I'm having September 11th flashbacks and trying not to cry. And is it just a coincidence that today is March 11th -- six months away from September... I hope so, but I do wonder.

Cris & Jose and any Spanish lurkers... There's an old saying "when you laugh, the world laughs with you; when you cry, you cry alone" but in this case it's not true. Everyone here is crying with you.

PJ

Cris and Jose -- I am so glad you are not hurt. When such a thing happens in your own home, it is like a physical pain.

Nosotros en Nueva York sentimos su dolor y nuestros corazones estan con ustedes.

(I hope I said that right)

Yes Cris and Jose, I am so sorry for your loss and your pain. I live in NY and was very depressed after the 9-11 attack on the Trade Center. I knew people who were involved there and I had been on top of that building 1 year earlier. It was devistating. I understand. I hope you have some good people around you to help you get through this tough time.

When terrorism hits home it is hard to describe how it feels. You feel angry and vulnerable and frightened and like the rug has been pulled out from under your feet. It is very Surreal and it takes a while for things to feel normal again and safe.

You need to appreciate all you do have and all those you love more now then ever. Go give someone a hug! I send you both a hug from me. Laura

Your entire country is in my thoughts and prayers tonight.

ML

Cris and Jose

I'm so gald that you, your family and friends are safe.

I heard about this on this morning's news. Here they are saying that over 190 are dead and that Al-Qaeda is claiming responsibility.

My thoughts are with you at this horrible time.

Tricia.

Thank you for your kind words

Yeah, the MO didn't seem ETA's but they tried something similar on Xmas Eve (it was aborted by police) and the other day they caught a big amount of explosive... the same one found here.

It seems, however, that the plan failed since the idea was that the two first trains would explode inside the train station so the strength of it would have destroyed the whole building... /me shudders

Jose

Thanks for the link Cris.

I got an email from one of my colleague this morning, but still no news from the other.

I know I tend to worry easily, but the thing is she usually commutes via Atocha station.

Seems I can't access the victim list (I'm on a Mac), but a french colleague tried from a PC and all he could connect to was the wounded list and the hospital they were directed to. She's not among them. I really hope she's okay.

Take care,

Carole

Cris and Jose, I'm glad you're okay, but this kind of thing infuriates me beyond words. People like this, who attack innocent people to make a political point are the worst kind of cowards. I hope all your friends are okay, and we're thinking of you here in my country.

Nan

Wow!

Thanks everyone for your kind words!!!

Joy, it was perfectly said

First of all, I'd like to say that, today, more than ever, I'm proud to be a Spaniard. Just so the numebrs make some sense to you. Spain is divided into 17 autonomies or autonomical comunities, Madrid being one of them. The population in Madrid is of around 5 million people, and I just got back from a demonstration at Madrid (city) where there were 2.3 million people. In the whole country, oput of a 40 million population, over 11 milllion have hits the streets in different cities this afternoon. It was amazing!!!!!! And despite all teh hurt and pain, it's great to say there is still compasion and unity in the people.

As for the news about the attack, last time I checked the deaths were already at 198, but with many yet to be identified (me shudders). The reports are giving the letter supposedly belonging to Al-Qaeda little credibility. They're inclined to think it's a fake and, honestly, I kind of think so to. It lacks the religious intensity integrists always show. It's true the attack it's not exactly what the ETA have has used to... BUt they're desperate and they had been caught before trying to do something of the kind and with maps of this particular region. They will not, IMO, claim the attack as theirs; I think they might be feeling it got a little out of hand, and thus, they might not be ready to assume the vast consequences. It wouldn't help their 'cause', or whatever you might call the stupidities they claim to defend.

Anyway, I've probably bored you enough already so I'll save more for another time. Thanks again everyone!!!!!!

Cris

PS. Carole, I think you might be able to find a list now, though it is still incomplete due to the trouble identificating

Cristina,

I finally did have news. Good news, what a relief!

I did a crazy thing to have it, but this isn't unusual and the waiting was just driving me crazy. Her sister is among the wounded but should be out of the hospital soon. She's still in a state of shock.

Yeah, I saw that "still to be identified" list. It really gives me the shudder... and 200 deaths now.

The demonstrations among the country were impressive and massive. I was amazed by the dignity and this intense feeling of communion that emanated from them.

Carole

Yes, I too was impressed by the speed and dignified solidarity at which the entire Spanish nation organised itself into a peaceful and very moving demonstration against violence.

My condolences and sympathy to all who have been affected by this terrible crime.

Yvonne

Hey Carole, I'm so glad you finally heard from your friend and that it was good news. I'm sorry to hear her sister is among the wounded, though fortunately she is still alive

Well, I have to admit it seems I was wrong about who is responsible for the attacks, though it kind of helped that our government was keen on making as believe ETA was really the prime subject while the rest of the world thought otherwise... Can you believe it? Lying for votes when so many families are suffering...

Cris

I have to admit to being increasingly sceptical of the then government's line on who was responsible from around Friday morning, Cris - I'm even more sad and disappointed to discover that it looks as if I was right.

Like Yvonne, though, I am heartened by your fellow citizens' response: the demonstrations on Friday were very moving indeed and a powerful statement on behalf of a shocked, grieving nation. And, regardless of the outcome, a turnout of more than 77% in your general election shows an electorate which is all the more convinced by the democratic process as the best response to terrorism.

By the way, I went to a couple of Spanish embassy websites (UK, USA) looking for an online book of condolences which I could sign, as I did after September 11 in the USA - it doesn't seem as if there's any such thing available. If anyone's come across an online 'book' I could sign, please let me know!


Wendy

I think we all wanted to believe it was ETA, Wendy, rather than face the posibility of yet another terrorist group attacking us. I mean, if you look at everything objectively, from Friday on, and the truth is the evidence pretty much said 'hey, it wasn't ETA'. Guess it just wasn't convenient to admit it.
AS for the great response on the election Sunday, I guess it was a combination of factors. Not only as a response to terrorism, but also as a response to the government. THe number of votes received increased especially for the winning party whereas the previous governing party lost votes, but really not that many compared to the one by their adversary. (though I really am about to give up trying to understand al this mess )

About the condolence online book, I think I recall coming across one, but it's very likely that it was in a Spanish page.

Cris

Cris,

I was thrilled to have news too. Her sister should leave the hospital tomorrow. I hope she'll be able to have her talk this event out 'cause it seems she's still silent about it.

When I first saw your post it knocked me out. I didn't know such a thing had happened and I had just your description of the attack...but my intuition had rarely failed me before and, well, some things didn't quite fit in.

Wendy,

there's an online condoleance book on El Mundo website. It's in spanish.

You should be able to directly access it via this link.

As you will see there are messages from all over the world and even some posted in english.

If you want to post a message, click on the "envie su messaje a el mundo.es" link, the one standing in a grey sqare on top of the message list. It opens a window where you can post your message the same way you woud a reply on the mbs.

Hope this helps,

Carole

Thanks for the link, Carole!

Kaethel

You're more than welcome, Kaethel!

Yeah...I thought an english reply suited more to your avatar pic

Carole

Well,Carole, I'd think it's understandable. I try to imagine myself in their situation and, well.. I just don't know how I'd react, because I'm very talkative but... I think I'd still be shocked. It'll take a lot of time to recover... Some probably will never leave it behind

When thought calmly, most just didn't fit. THe first being the fact that both ETA and the supporting political parites had denied their involvement. They never do, nor do they condemn the attacks.. so it was a pretty big clue...

Cris

It's perfectly understandable, indeed. Who wouldn't be shoked in that case? It's just...I'm not really used to posting my personnal and inner feelings online. Especially if I'm a bit closer to the topic than usual.

I'm the talking type but, in this case there's a restrain some would call a block.

Well, I'm quick to recover. The last event that touches me deeply on a *personnal* level took me three days of recovering and talking things out definitely helped quickened the healing process.

I stressed *personnal* because if it's news related, I'm armoured.

But I had a teacher that was caught in both Paris RER attacks and...well, I know he's still afraid of talking the train or going to crowded places. That was years ago. So you're right, some will probably never leave it behind.

Yep. I was more thinking 'modus operandi' at that time. I'm not an expert, but from what I remember, ETA usually revendicates the attacks they're responsible of but never denied an attack where they have no hands in. Like I first said, the scale and the calculation weren't pointing ETA. The most deadly ETA attack I can think of killed 21 people. And the Spanish flag with a black ribbon spread all over...I can't remember if it was San Sebastian's City Hall, well make it one of Basque Country 'big city' City Hall, was another pretty big clue too. Usually it's an Euskadi flag you see there after ETA attacks... Plus other things.

I'll stop here otherwise my post will be the boring and catalog type, and I've annoyed you enough with that, already.

Carole

Sorry for not writng sooner, Carole. I meant to email in order to stop boring the FoLCs over here, but the last couple of days have been a little busy. But I'll try to do it later (like I said, no use boring everyone around here )

Cris

my thought exactly.

I meant to email too, but I'm quite busy myself. Waiting for your email then.

Carole