Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic The Matrix Reloaded (spoiler warning)

Just saw this tonight. It was great, except of course, for the cliffhanger.



Superman did actually get a very brief mention by one of the characters -- Link, IIRC. And I couldn't help but picture Dean Cain when Neo was flying around.

Well, at least we won't have to wait too long for the next part. Matrix Revolutions is scheduled for release November 5th, 2003


Tara

I was really looking forward to this, but some reviews on radio last night put me off a little.

A vox pop of movie-goers (all of whom presented their views as a positive thumbsup of the movie) almost exclusively said that it was like a martial arts movie with lots of special effects, long fight scenes, and a thin to no plot.

As I really have no interest in martial arts movies and fight scenes I'm now wondering if I will enjoy it.

What do you think, Emily? Is it just fight scenes and SFX? Or is there any character relationship in there too?

Thanks.

LabRat

Labby, just saw the movie yesterday.

I was somewhat disappointed. I really liked the first movie but this one left me wanting in some respects.

I have to admit that I too got the impression of a high tech kung fu movie, but the visuals are pretty spectacular. The slow-mo stuff we've seen before, but it is fairly well done.

The A plot is simple, man against the machines, but one of the complaints on this movie is the continual philosophizing slows the movie down. For me one of the most irritating parts between the first movie and this one is the lack of any coherent explanation for Neo's evolution. I know he's supposed to be 'the one' which means he's really special but I don't see any foundation for all the 'wonders' he's able to manifest.

The relationship between Neo and Trinity only shown in fits and starts, but is pretty intense and does figure heavily in the denounment of this particular part.

I saw the movie at a daytime matinee price so I don't feel cheated. It was worth the time spent but not quite up to the level set by the first one.

Tank (who relates that one of the most common 'reviews' he got from friends was that it looked the the second part of a three part movie)

I've seen it twice so far. I'll say it's not a great movie, just a good movie, but it really does seem like a part 2 of 3. I'm trying to reserve judgement until November. However, the fight scenes were great. I like Link, the new operator, who seems to have an "audience" reaction to certain parts. The philosophisizing was kind of boring but interesting at the same time, as it brought up a bunch of questions. (which I shant post here right now ) The "orgy" scene wasn't really needed (an orgy of dancing mixed in with scenes of an intimate Neo and Trinity). It hasn't turned me off, but didn't really rev me up, either. I think the trailer after the credits did that.

My advice? Go see it at least once. That way you're ready when the finale comes out.

I liked the movie, but liked Matrix one best. I hate them for the Reloaded cliffhanger ...which leaves you no choice but rush to see Matrix 3 in november.

a critic: too bad they didn't develop the matrix verse instead of improving explosions and special effects (real great, but not really impressive for the story line). while watching it, I also had the nagging impression to be in a mix of Superman and Buffy verse instead than really "inside the Matrix".

Still, I like how they developped the Neo-Trinity relation (and the saving in the end, so LC like )

Carole

I personally enjoyed the martial arts scenes, having studied a bit of Karate myself. However, much of the plot does revolve around fighting the bad guys and the movie is rated "R" for a reason. I did enjoy the Neo/Trinity plot, as well as the special effects. I could have done without the tribal dancing scene too. It didn't seem to add much to the movie, but I'm sure it'll help sell the soundtrack.

Neo's powers are established in the first movie. Remember the famous spoon-bending scene? In the Matrix universe, those who can make themselves believe that reality is an illusion can put mind over matter. Hence his abilities to fly, stop/speed up time, etc. It makes sense to me that those would only work in the Matrix. If they worked in the "real world" as well, you'd know that was just another Matrix on top of the first one.

Unless, of course, you think that the other matrix is the "real world", in which case, you'd be just like the people inside the first matrix playing a video game. You wouldn't think that the rules of the first matrix applied to the 2nd matrix until it was revealed as a matrix...

Mind-boggling.

It is mind-boggling. The Matrix is an interesting what if. That's why I liked the premise.

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your impressions.

I was thinking about it earlier and I really think it was the 'martial arts' tag, which kept cropping up, which really put me off. I'm not a fan of martial arts movies.

But, you could probably tag the first movie the same way if you were inclined, couldn't you? I'm glad to hear that there's some character developement in there too, although slightly disappointed to hear that there was no attempt to further explore the Matrix world.

All in all, though, expect I'll enjoy it when I see it.

LabRat

well, i'm not a matrix fan at all. i avoided the first movie for a long time. a friend of mine kept saying i had to see it, that she thought i'd really like it. so, when i caught it on TV, i decided to give it a try. found out i was right. i should never have watched it.

on the surface, it's a thinly plotted sci-fi action movie with some horror thrown in based on an idea that dates back to descartes and became cliche long before i was born. on the surface, it's all about the kung fu and the special effects.

dig a bit deeper, though, and you find something else. there's a whole other meaning to it all. it makes some things make a lot more sense, but understanding it may well turn many people off. so, if you'd rather not read about that (on the chance that it'll ruin the whole thing for you), skip the rest of this post. i'll give you some time to think about it.

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the whole thing is about christianity. here's how it goes:

the world inside the matrix is the material world. it's enough for most people, but some few true believers realize it's an illusion, that there's much more to existance. while the average person sees a world much like our own, the believers see a battle against evil.

there are monsters, creatures of evil who live off their souls, while they're completely unaware.

the believers were first made aware of this when a man, a very special man, showed some few the way. he died long ago, but there is a prophecy that he will return. while waiting for his return, they have spread the word... slowly teaching more and more people about the true nature of the universe. some of them are born into it, some are brought into it (usually as children).

the movie starts with the discovery of neo, the second coming. he is brought into the real world as an adult. (he is also played by keanu reeves... i don't know about you, but i wouldn't want a messiah best known for going "whoa.")

while the believers can use their knowledge of the world to preform minor miracles, neo will have powers that none of them ever could.

over the course of the first movie, neo learns to accept his nature and develops his powers. in the meantime, we're introduced to the real world and some of the people who live in it. among them is trinity ("i thought you were male" takes on a whole new meaning in this light). also among them is a traitor who claims to love trinity but only lusts after her. ultimately, he betrays them all to the evil ones for material goods (which will only help him if he rejects the true beliefs).

neo is almost killed near the end of the movie, but he is saved by the ambiguously platonic love of trinity. with that and his newfound awareness of his true nature, he fully comes into his own, and that's where the first movie leaves us.

i don't know too much about the second one (been avoiding it as best i can), but i've heard that trinity is in danger. i've also heard that there's an assault on the city of true believers (zion).

anyway, that should be enough to give you a context for the movie. that's why neo has all those powers, that's why there's so much philosophizing, and that's why neo and trinity have an intesne relationship (though things get really screwy if you try to work out what their relationship should be in this context).

Paul

I just saw this today, at a matinee (only way to avoid crowds)... it was fun, I thought. I'm not really enthralled by martial arts, although I do enjoy Jackie Chan movies <g> but the scenes were pretty amazing and some of them were gorgeously done.

The main plot, from what I could tell, was a massive head-frell about the nature of reality. *Nothing* from the first movie necessarily applies anymore. Also lots of philosophy about choice vs. fate, free will vs. destiny, etc. Which was interesting, but it did slow things down.

I've always understood Neo's "powers" to be an advanced form of hacking -- Morpheus can bend some rules, but Neo can get inside the code and rewrite it on the fly. Sometimes literally But who the heck knows, really. He shouldn't have been able to do that bit at the end...

And of course, it is part 2 of 3, so it had to end on a down note (like "Empire Strikes Back").

Anyway, I'll be looking forward to seeing the third one.

PJ

I'm about to go watch it. I'll tell you what I think tonight. I loved the first one, and my friends who've seen it say Reloaded is not as good, but still a good movie.


Ja-10

[Coming out of lurkdom because this movie made me *really* mad... ]

Now first off, I saw this last Thursday (the 15th), so maybe my memory is fuzzy by now or maybe I've blocked portions of it <g>. And let me say that I was really excited about this movie. I loved the first one and the preivews for this one looked very cool. So maybe my expectations were too high. But my first reaction coming out of the theater was "What the he** was that?!"

I'm sorry, this didn't do it for me. It just... it didn't match the tone of the first one, the characters weren't the same, half the time I forgot why they were doing whatever they were
doing... You can stop now if you don't want to read my complaining ;-) But everyone I've talked to has just loved it, and I'm still waiting for someone to explain *why* <g>...

[You've been warned <g> Spoilers ahead.]

I could have done without the rave/sex in Zion, although admittedly that could have been worse in an R-rated movie. It would have been tolerable if it didn't last so long. I *really* could have done without the chocolate cake scene (and I still don't see that there was any point to it...)

The characters became less interesting. Trinity went from this very cool, talented, independent person to Neo's little girlfriend and comic relief. Even Morpheus got relegated to comic relief at times ("Does that include a bullet from this gun?" How did that line get past the first draft?!) I lost my respect for both of them. Niobe was cool but she's only in the movie for like half an hour and she stole Trinity's part. And there were threads that went
nowhere (ie, the kiss with Persephone... and I hated how Trinity reacted to that.) Admittedly some of them will probably get wrapped up in the next one, but overall it still felt like portions of the story weren't necessary.
And, like I said, at a lot of times they were fighting someone or trying to accomplish something and I honestly couldn't remember why they were doing it or care whether they succeeded.

Neo bringing Trinity back to life... Yes, it was supposed to be romantic and miraculous, but it ticked me off. If she was going to die, she should have died. If she wasn't, she should have been close to death or something and he could save her. I don't have a problem with him taking out the bullet, healing her up, whatever. But once she had actually died, in the matrix and in the real world, she should have stayed that way. Otherwise Neo *really* starts to get God-like and that upsets me. Also, even though she'd been dead on the ledge a second ago, she immediately jumps up and kisses him for all she's worth... No recovery, no minute to catch her breath... for goodness' sake, she was *dead* a minute ago!

On the other hand, it might have been very interesting if Neo had made the other choice and chosen Zion over Trinity. Would have led to different issues, whether she actually died or not.

The car chase was very cool... the first fight with Smith was very cool... The interweaving of scenes at the end, as they're planning their attack/talking about it privately/carrying it out was very nicely done. The shot of Smith at the end was good. I'm sure there were other moments I liked.

I plan to see it again and see if it is any better the second time around. But overall, it just felt like a bad sequel. It was like the first one had this kind of... emotional purity to it, maybe. The story was simple, the motives were clear, they were following this mystic prophecy and all that... This one just left me feeling cheated and dirty. I'd almost rather just have one movie than two/three. I'm hoping the next one will make me a fan again.

Anyway, that's enough from me for now
Kaylle

I thought it was very good. I didn't expect much because I didn't buy into the hype. The marketing for it was everywhere and I stayed away from that.
I thought the first one was a better story, but there was better action in this. This one did at points in the movie seem just action sequence, then a fight sequence, then an action sequence.

I'm still confused a little story wise. I'm hoping my confusion and questions will be answered in Revolutions.


Ja-10

I saw it on Saturday and I liked it. However there was a pair of things that you couldn't understand if you haven't seen "The Last Flight of Osiris". I agree that the "orgy" scenes was out of place.

The fight scenes were impressive

Liked the movie, I liked the dance scene, loved the F/X and fight scenes, but I actually thought the fight scenes/car chase/crash/explosions were a few too many.

Really loved the S-man references w/Neo flying and catching his true love. My favorite was when they got to Zion and Trinity says "they need you" and he replies "I need *you*"...which is a direct quote from L&C "Don't Tug on Superman's Cape". that was wonderful!

Oh, and one other thing... is there a significance to all these Greek mythology names? Morpheus, Persephone, Niobe... not to mention the Oracle. Is there an allegory in there somewhere, struggling to get out? Or do they just like exotic names?

PJ

I don't think there's a real signification to the greek names.

I mean, in the Greek Mythology, Morpheus is linked to sleep, Perséphone is a the Spring goddess...as for oracles, it would refers to Delphes one but it was usually told by the Pithy (an old woman who was Apollon's messenger to humans).

I think it's more a mix of references (the Buffy-verse is still nagging at me: the Oracle, the Consellors, the One...): like Zion from the Rasta belief (I can't help but hearing Bob Marley's song at the evocation of Zion ). Then Trinity reminds me of Christianism.

Well, just my 2 cents though here...

Carole