Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic X2: spoilers

This thread is for anyone who wants to discuss anything in the film that is a "spoiler". So, for people who haven't seen it and do not want to be spoiled do not read anything after this in this thread.

Warning spoilers ahead.


The opening seen with Nightcrawler was perfect, the fx when he teleports rocked.

The attack on the mansion and Wolverine becoming a killing machine, I never expected that. Also when that soldier, shot the kid who changes the TV channels with his eyes, that was sad, I couldn't believe he could he could just shoot a kid like that.

The Colossus cameo, I loved when he turned into his metal form and the bullets bounced off him, very Supermanesque.

I loved the Beast cameo. I hope Beast and Angel are in X3. I wanted Gambit to actually be in the film, but I hope, because of his extremely small cameo in this film, he will play a big part in X3.

Magneto's escape was cool and very original. I thought Mystique was going to break him out, she only contributed.

The tornadoes made by storm to distract the other 2 planes, great scene. When Nightcrawler saves Rogue, that perfect, the audience in my theater cheered that scene.

Pyro at the end turning sides and leaving with Magneto.

Jean at the end dying, but the last scene leave the Phoenix story for the next film. That took me by surprise, even though I'd read spoilers.

Anyone else want to comment on the movie?

Okay, the weird part first. The first scene with Stryker in the Alkali Lake complex talking to Professor X, we heard what sounded like rushing water. We thought it was a pretty cool effect considering they were supposed to be in the dam. Then they went to the scene in the Drake house, and the sound continued, and we were confused. We then realized it was actually raining outside! There went the cool effect...

I was really surprised they went that far with the Phoenix. I had heard rumors they they were hinting at it, but didn't know they had integrated it into the plot. I can't wait to see what they're going to do with it next.

I feel relieved for Rebecca. She actually got to do one scene without spending 8 hours getting ready.

I wish they had kept the small Gambit scene in, but I guess I'll have to wait for the DVD's deleted scenes. I was quite happy to see that they had focused on the tv showing Dr. McCoy, as I had thought it would be a briefer glimpse.

I wonder when X3 is coming out...

I liked it on another level as well - I felt that Singer did a great job of making the audience understand the origin of this fear of mutants by humans. Nightcrawler was unstoppable - and if that's the only contact I had had with a mutant, I'd probably be a little wary too. Not sure if anyone else saw it that way, but I thought the subtext behind the action (as with the rest of the film) was what truly made that scene and the film as a whole excellent. Tons of movies have shown how easy it is to have great FX - but Singer's use of a good plot and a theme show the potential power for using both hand-in-hand.

Where were these cameos?? I've only ever seen the movies, so I'm only familiar with the characters they've introduced.

I wish we could have seen a little more of Cyclops - he gets the award for underused character of the movie. It seems to me that the majority of his role in this one was as a set-up for the next one - looking back I get the feeling quite a bit of this movie was a set-up for X3 (the "I'd never let anything happen to you" scene is esp. poignant given the ending).

Was kind of disappointed they killed Deathstrike - very sad, given that she was being controlled by Stryker.

Also, thought it was interesting that Iceman and Rouge had their "X-Men outfits" in the scene at the White House, given Wolverine's earlier comment about them being on order.

Finally, I like the fact it seems that Prof. X's knows that Jean is alive - given his looking out the window and subsequent comments, that's my guess anyway.

I could keep talking, but I'll leave it here for now.

Beast, aka Dr. Hank McCoy, was being interviewed on the tv at the bar where Mystique duped the guard. Gambit , or Remy LeBeau, had a filmed cameo, but it was left on the cutting room floor. His "cameo" was reduced to being a name on the list on the computer that Mystique was looking at when she was trying to get Cerebro's coordinates, along with several other mutant names. The following is from Superheroype.com, but I haven't actually looked closely at the scene in question to see the whole list. I also don't know all of the name-code names.

I loved this movie! The only person who died and I also care about is COMING BACK! JOY!!


I think, just about the only two things I really didn't like about this movie were:

1. Jean and Logan. Ain't happenin'. So, why did they even try?

2. The sight of urinals. I just can't stand 'em. Why would any girl want to go in there?

Great movie, otherwise.

Karen I also found out about Gambit's cameo from the Hype. I didn't catch his name while watching the movie, only Beast's name. My eyesight's not very good and we were sitting in the back. Do you happen to know if there is a pic by his name on the computer screen? Or was it Jackman's stunt double?

I only have one peeve: Why did they hint so blatantly at the end that Jean will be back? Don't get me wrong, I like the character. I'd love to see the Phoenix story in X3. But the oh-so-cliched fake death's just getting on my nerve. :rolleyes: Like Toad said in X-Men: "Don't you people ever die?!" Why can't good guys die heroic deaths and stay that way and let other good guys mourn for their deaths?

Other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

My guess as to why they blatantly hinted that Jean would return is aimed at the non-comic book fans/audience of the movie. These fans most likely just thought that she died, Cyclops is a widower, the end. So they needed to let those fans know that she will be back in the next film. For the comic book fans it gives them something to look forward to.

Ja-10

Okay I must have missed something. Where was the blatent reference that Jean will be back? Can someone enlighten me? I probably am just spacing and I'll smack myself on the forehead when you tell me.

~Anna

It was a fantastic scene. One of the best.

Not that I complain...

Didn't adress Storm one of the kids as Jubilee?


Me too.

Jose

Jean's voiceover + the phoenix shape in the water.

The events leading to Jean's death served one purpose: To kill her. And the only reason to kill her was to set up the sequel. While they hinted her death from the beginning, the actual event was handled badly. It's rashed and manipulating. It didn't push the plots (of X2) along at all.

What's worse is that 3 minutes after her death, we're told our tears were wasted. "Haha, gotcha!" It trivialized the death and the impact on others. What could be noble and heart-wrenching became nothing more than a plot device to squeeze some tears.


I disagree that the audience should know Jean's "rebirth" in advance. A grief-stricken Scott will be interesting. The dynamic among X-Men team members will be intriguing now that Jean's gone. The return of Jean will be more shocking. And the reactions of this news, the efforts put to bring Jean back to the fold more dramatic. Now, we can still have all of these in X3. But I'm afraid that I won't enjoy it as much because I'll be constantly reminded that their pain, sacrifices, efforts... are for nothing. (She's alive, you silly!)

I couldn't have said it better myself! :rolleyes:

You're right, her death was rushed, and didn't really make sense to me, although I am happy that she'll not *stay dead*, but still....

Ja-10 asked
Sorry, it was just a listing of names, no pictures. I know that Jackman's stunt double was who they pulled to play Gambit, but they cut him out.

Anni griped (sorry )
I believe it's because that's one thing brought up in the comics a bit. And Jean explained nicely in the movie just why it won't work out.

I can't remember Storm refering to anyone as Jubilee, but I may have just missed it. I'm wondering if the kid with the forked tongue is one of the cominc-named mutants, and which one.

The phoenix bit may have been overdone, but I think it will only feel that way to those who have read the comics. The uninitiated were probably going "What the heck was that about?" and when someone explains the pheonix saga, they'll go "OOooh! Okay." Besides, Hollywood knows that movie-goers need to be bopped over the heads with hints.

Griped?!?!?

It's at the very first moment when they find the kids. I seem to remember that Jubilee replied "Storm!" It was her only line in the whole movie, IIRC.

Gambit's name did show up on the computer screen near the end. In the book version of the movie, they actually have the scene where he gets his mutant powers. I wish they hadn't cut it out of the film.

Nightcrawler was cool! I also enjoyed watching Patrick Stewart on the big screen, as always.

just saw the movie. finally.

really cool. better than x1, dd, and spider-man.

otoh, i had a fair number of nitpicks.

minor ones with deathstrike (she didn't know logan, she could retract her claws, she had healing powers)

bobby was seriously underused.

what the heck happend to kitty and collossus and all those kids?

why couldn't someone else have stopped those missiles? pyro could have expanded the thruster flames and blown them up. bobby could have pelted them with ice. storm could have knocked them aside. jean could have shielded the jet. in a pinch, kurt could have teleported them out of the way.

speaking of kurt, if he didn't want to make blind 'ports, why was he willing to port out of the falling jet and back in?

and why couldn't any of them have saved the jet? jean's telekenisis combined with storm's wind control should have done the trick. i guess bobby wasn't quite up to an ice slide at that point, but i sort of expected it of him.

who was the kid with the forked tongue? what about the one who never sleeps and could change the channels by blinking? (btw, the guards were shooting tranquilizer dars, so he wasn't seriously hurt)

jean's "death" made no sense (way too many ways that could have gone differently), and i knew she wasn't dead anyway, what with all those pheonix hints. made it even worse when the prof didn't notice until the very end and cyclops and wolvie were getting all teary. i just kept expecting her to burst out of the lake surrounded by a full glory pheonix effect.

how was jason able to make the prof try to kill people? i can see him tricking the prof into trying to find the x-men, but not kill them. especially since that meant that prof was also linked to jason's mind. and can the prof really link to all those billions of non-mutants, especially with a secondhand cerebro?

was it just me, or was kurt making eyes at mystique for a sec there? dude, that's your mom! nice to see a little brotherly scene for a sec with rogue, tho.

are they actually going to do the pheonix saga in x3? seems unlikely, since that would involve trying to explain the shi'ar, the crystal, and corsair all at once.

cool seeing beast. very unexpected, considering the way they stuck jean with his role when they cut him out of the first movie. odd to see him looking human, tho. i guess this is before he goes all blue and furry, but still, even at the beginning (when there were 5 x-men and jean could only lift as much with her mind as she could with her hands) he looked vaguely ape-like.

that opening scene with kurt ROCKED!

wouldn't have liked logan cutting loose in the mansion, but the crowd was so enthusiastic that i had to go with it. it was definitely spot-on wolverine, right down to the growl/roar.

was it just me, or did it look like bobby froze part of the dam for a minute there? things stopped shaking, there was frost coming out of the pipes, and they stepped out into a huge snowscape. then we find out that no, bobby was in the jet the whole time doing nothing.

oh- about the uniforms.. wolvie's comment was a joke, but even so, i don't think they had actual uniforms. i think what happened was that the prof made the president think the lights had gone out and the feed had been cut, etc. then he linked all their minds and the x-men saw themselves as being in uniform. the file on his desk was, i think, kitty's work (and the prof just made sure everyone was staring too hard at the president to notice it being put there). either that, or it was there before the president got into the room, and the prof kept him from noticing it (and everyone else just thought it was a random file- a briefing or something).

oh- about jubilee... i was kind of wondering if that was her at the end, sitting on the couch with the hoop earrings.

think that's about it.

next?

Paul

Yeah, that's it!

I liked X1 and Spidey, but DD, not too much, Jennifer Gardner excluded.

I had the same thought

BTW, wasn't Halle Berry chosen to play Catwoman?

Jose

Paul, I'm not sure if your comments about Deathstrike were what was wrong with the character, as I've never read the comics. But if they were, one possible explanation for her not knowing Logan was because of the mind control. But as for the rest, I have no clue.

<---- really needs to get the husband's comics out of the closet to read them all...

deathstrike basically had a completely different origin in the comics. i'm not sure of it exactly, but basically my understanding is this: she was wolvie's girlfriend, but there was this whole mess where he found out that her father was partially responsible for putting the adamantium in his bones, killed the guy, then found out that he was her father, and then she found out that her boyfriend had killed her father and decided to get revenge (love/hate sort of thing). she fell in with the reavers, a cyborg cult, and they enhanced her speed and reflexes and gave her adamantium claws on her fingers. thing is, she can't retract them.

wolvie can retract his claws because they're sheahed from elbow to wrist (that's how he can move his wrists when the claws are sheathed and why he can't move them when they're out. except that they got that wrong in the first movie because the x-ray (i specifically looked for this) shows the claws going past the wrists.

anyway, the whole reason for her anger and fighting and claws and everything is that she's obsessed with wolverine. they completely changed that.

also, she was a normal human before she went through all that. she shouldn't have the healing factor, and thus shouldn't have been able to survive the adamantium implantation proceedure that wolvie underwent.

basically, they changed the character, which was kind of surprising, but no huge deal. she's not that major a character and the movie takes place in a different universe.

Paul

Actually, in Batman Returns, Catwoman was played by Michelle Pfeiffer.

emily, the catwoman comment refers to rumors about a new upcoming movie about just catwoman. as far as i know, they're just rumors, and they're hard to believe, considering she's been busy with x2 and a new series based around her bond character, jinx. i think a couple of other projects, too. not sure.

also, there's the fact that "batman: year one" fell through after a promising start, batman vs superman fell through, and no one knows what's going to happen with the next superman movie.

imdb does have a page about the upcoming catwoman movie, which you can find here, but there isn't all that much info yet, and anything could change.

Paul

I don't know about Halle Berry playing Catwoman beyond rumors. I know Ashely Judd had the role for awhile, but I think she's not attached anymore.

Whoops, I take that back. Checking Superherohype, there's an realvideo bit of Halle from "E! Real News Live" that apparently says that "she will be starting Catwoman in September, after she's done with 'Gothika'". Guess she's kinda busy.

Interesting. I hadn't heard of that upcoming movie before.

Paul you're pretty much right about Deathstrike in the comics. My friends and I were wondering if they would use the comic storyline with them, but they obviously didn't, even though Logan does have amnesia. I thought there would be some sort of recognition in his face in the fight scene.

The movie universe is different and the movie doesn't have to be exactly like the comics. Also, like you pointed out, she wasn't a major player in the story of the movie anyway, only in Logan's past in the comics.

I just read that Project Wideawake and Omega Red were in Stryker's database. I wonder if they'll use sentinels in the new movie. Maybe the Hellfire Club will be used because of Pheonix? I think Omega Red should be in a Wolverine or Weapon X spinoff.

Ja-10(who wonders if they will use the Hellfire Club because there are already too many characters)