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#175172 09/14/03 10:51 AM
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Julie S Offline OP
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If Clark's molecular structure is much denser than a normal human's is, wouldn't that make him MUCH heavier than a normal human his size? And that could account for alot of problems. Another though: in Ultrawoman, where besides superman two other people had his powers briefly (Lucille and Lois), did they have his molecular structure sort of transferred to them to make them invulnerable? Some of this stuff just doesn't totally make sense.


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#175173 09/14/03 11:02 AM
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Julie,

I always thought that being able to fly and having a dense molecular structure seemed not to go. Wouldn't it make more sense to say he had a *less* dense molecular structure??

The transferring of his powers makes NO sense whatsoever, regardless of his molecular structure. (IMHO)

- Vicki wave


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#175174 09/14/03 11:11 AM
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well, the "molecular structure" thing was a way to explain his strength and invulnerability. not sure, but it may go back to the days when he couldn't really fly, but rather was able to jump really really far ("leap tall buildings in a single bound..."). it went with the explanation that krypton was also denser than earth, so that earth's gravity was lighter than kryptonian genetics had been adapted for.

and yes, it would make him heavier than a normal person.

i'm not sure if he still is considered to have a super-dense molecular structure. current theory has it that he gets his powers from absorbing solar radiation, in particular the parts of the spectrum not found in great strength in a red sun.

how that gives him all his various powers is not fully explained, but i've always liked the idea that he is able to manipulate local gravity (which is actually matter bending the fabric of space-time). that would give him invulnerability (just deflect everything away from you), super strength (make things lighter), speed and flight (have gravity pull you in the direction you want to go and maybe even add in a relativistic time change), etc.

but that's just my pet theory.

transferring the powers doesn't really make sense, but the thing to remember is...

this is comic book physics. <g>

Paul


When in doubt, think about penguins. It probably won't help, but at least it'll be fun.
#175175 09/17/03 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by HatMan:
i've always liked the idea that he is able to manipulate local gravity (which is actually matter bending the fabric of space-time). that would give him invulnerability (just deflect everything away from you), super strength (make things lighter), speed and flight (have gravity pull you in the direction you want to go and maybe even add in a relativistic time change), etc.
This all sounds a lot like the new version on Superboy in the current comics. He's a clone of Superman, but he has telekinesis...so he's not really strong enough to lift that car, he's doing it with his mind.

And, as far as the invulnerability thing on LnC, I thought the widely recognized theory was the aura that surrounds him was what really kept bullets from hurting him, not his denseness. I imagine such an aura would be transferrable with his powers.

huh


Anne >^,,^<

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#175176 09/17/03 06:39 AM
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he's not really strong enough to lift that car, he's doing it with his mind
/me blinks

Err, from a physics perspective, that doesn't help. Moving an object, whether directly or -- theoretically -- by telekinesis, takes energy. (Actually, to see this idea dealt with well, read Anne McCaffrey's Talent books. Her telekinetics draw energy from electrical generators.)

Auras aren't particularly defensible in real-world physics terms either. But then again, as Paul said
Quote
this is comic book physics. <g>


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#175177 09/17/03 09:20 AM
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superboy has a cool power with a stupid name. "tactile telekenesis." that is, he has certain telekenetic powers, but he can only use them at touch range. so, if he needs to lift something really heavy, he grab on to it and then use his telekentic powers to help him pick it up, thus making him seem stronger than he actually is. he can do other things, too, like telekentically repell objects (throw them harder), and can even affect the physical structure of whatever he's touching, using his telekenesis to make the physical structure more or less stable. that way, he can shore up weakening tank armor, holding it together longer and making it tougher, or he can do the reverse and make it weaker or even cause it to be unstable enough to explode.

he can also use that telekenisis on himself to give himself some semblance of invulnerability and to fly (sort of picking himself up with his mind... not an uncommon telekenetic trick).

superboy, for those who are interested, was supposed to be a clone of superman developed by a secret government lab called "cadmus." however, they found out that kryptonian genes cannot be cloned without the clone becoming unstable and going nuts (all kryptonian clones become "bizzaros"). so, they ended up cloning the director of the cadmus program and then splicing in these genes to give him super powers that would hopefully mimic superman's.

i never really thought about it, since superboy's powers are telekenetic rather than physical, but it does make sense when you think about it that way. i mean, not knowing how telekenesis works, how different is it to say that you're lifting something up via telekenesis rather than saying that you're lifting things up by altering the local gravity? maybe it's just two different ways of doing the same thing, or even two different ways of saying the same thing. dunno.

personally, i'm inclined to think they're somewhat different. telekenesis somehow uses mental energy to exert a force (which is admitedly vague, but what can you do?). my theory with superman's powers is a bit more complicated to explain.

basically, gravity is the result of matter warping space-time. the classic example (which isn't really accurate but does serve to get the basic idea across) is that space is like a giant rubber sheet. if you put something on that sheet, the sheet will bend around it (the object will make a dimple in the sheet). the heavier the object, the more the sheet will bend. and, if you put a second object on the sheet, it will move towards the first object, rolling or sliding down the bend. the closer you are to the object, the more the sheet is warped.

so, matter does that to space, bending it around itself in (last i heard) 16-24 dimensions. we feel that bend as the force of gravity.

my theory is that superman is able to change the shape of the warping that the mass of his body causes (and, perhaps to some degree, the mass of whatever he is touching), and that that's how he can fly, be invulnerable, super-strong, etc.

as anne says, that does seem pretty similar to superboy's "tactile telekenesis." i don't know. since neither power exists in this world, it's very hard to say. wink it feels to me that it's two different ways of causing a similar effect, but what makes sense to me is not the same as what makes sense to others.

whatever. i need to be going. hope this has been more interesting than boring and/or confusing. smile

Paul


When in doubt, think about penguins. It probably won't help, but at least it'll be fun.

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