Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Batman Lore

Batman / Bruce Wayne is visiting one of my stories and my 'Batman' lore is VERY rusty. (There is no Robin in my story, so this is just about Batman -- very early Batman.) - I've already checked out Wikipedia's Batman page to refresh my memory.

My Batman is a mixture of Adam West, with a bit of Michael Keaton and a dash of Dark Knight. I am trying to imagine how Deborah Joy-Levine would have created his character, if she had had him 'guest star' on L&C.

Please let me know if any of my details are just plain WRONG:

1) The only person who knows his secret identity is his Butler/friend: Alfred.

2) Batman is more violent than Superman and does not live by Superman's code (work within the system, tell the truth, don't harm humans, never kill - even bad guys)

3) Batman carries a piece of Kryptonite with him 'just in case'
- Superman goes bad
- Superman wants to 'capture Batman' - the vigilante
- ???

My questions about Batman:

1) Does Batman have his own 'code of conduct'?

2) What is the official story of how Batman meets Superman? How did they become friends?

3) Any information about Wayne Enterprises and/or Wayne Foundation.

4) Any other juicie and fun tidbits that I might be able to use.

5) Any links to help me in my research would also be most helpful.

Thank you for any help you can supply.

Virginia, although I understand why you might think it wouldn't be allowed in FR (and it would have been just fine in OT), I'm moving this into here as it's information you need for your fanfic and because it's likely it'll get more attention here than in Off Topic.

LabRat

Thank you, LabRat.

As far as I know Superman knows Batman's secret identity and vice versa.

My understanding is that Clark actually gave Bruce some green-K with the directions to use it to 'take him down' if for any reason he ever went rogue or got out of control.

I think there have been several different versions of how the two met to begin with, and what their opinions of each other are. My understanding is that early on in comic book history, they were good friends, then they went through a period of disliking each other, and now have a grudging respect and a somewhat uneasy friendship between them. In the early radio shows, and in the modern day comics as well, they each knew the other's secret identity. IIRC, in the fairly recent comics, Bruce even gave or rented an apartment to the newly wed Lois and Clark.

I hope this helps.

Joy,
Lynn

Did someone say Batman?

Close. Batman fights dirty, but he never kills. Also, he detests guns. Absolutely hates them. Of course, don't be fooled into thinking he's somehow less dangerous because of that.

Batman is a case of "Be prepared for ANY eventuality." Canonically, he has Kryptonite in case Superman goes rogue and has to be stopped. Depending on which version of Batman you're dealing with, either he got this Kryptonite himself, or Superman gave it to him personally just in case.

1. Thou shalt not kill.
2. Thou shalt not use firearms, because guns are what killed Mom and Dad.
3. Thou shalt not harm Alfred, nor let any harm come to him.
4. I'm Batman.



That depends on which version you're reading.

In the Golden/Silver Age comics, Bruce and Clark were stuck in the same cabin on a cruise ship and had to change into their alter-egos at the same time. They became friends instantly, because in Golden/Silver Age comics, *all* good guys are friends.

In more recent stories, though, I'm not sure what the official meeting is, or if there even is one. It basically seems to come down to them being forced by circumstance to work on the same case(s), though.
One's a business, one's a charity.

I think you have cart blanch on what they are and what they do, or even how long they've existed. But someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

In Batman Begins, Wayne Enterprises was owned by Bruce's father. I was under the impression, though, that outside of the movie, Wayne Enterprises was started up by Bruce himself using the money he inherited. This could be totally wrong, though.

Yes.

*Thomas Wayne was a wealthy surgeon. His wife, Martha, was a "socialite".

*In one of the earliest tellings of Batman's origin, only Thomas was shot -- Martha had a "weak heart" and died from the shock of seeing him killed.

*In some tellings, the killing of the Waynes was a normal mugging-gone-wrong. In others, it was actually an assassination: Thomas had angered a mob boss by refusing to help him.

*In the mob-boss scenario, there's also the idea that Thomas dressed as a Bat-Man for a costume party. This may have influenced Bruce's later fashion decisions.

*In most tellings, the movie the Waynes had gone to see was Zorro -- a story of a rich guy who puts on a mask and fights injustice.

*Batman is considered to be a lapsed Catholic or possibly Episcopalian (Catholic Lite ).

*Before becoming Batman, Bruce spent a lot of time in Asia.

There's a lot more trivia, though I'm not sure what you need, so feel free to PM me if you need something more specific.

Links...let me switch PCs and I'll see what I can dig up for you.

Why do I think I have a better understanding of your Screen name now?

Thanks for the information, Capes.

Okay, Links:
there's an internet show called Atop the Fourth Wall . The host, Linkara, reviews bad comic books and talks about where they went wrong. He also gives relevant history and notes on characterization and continuity, so you can get a feel for what he's talking about.

This Video is part 1 of a dissection of The Dark Knight Strikes again (caution: language). It's the sequel to a landmark Batman comic. Linkara gives a little Batman history here. I think he also gets into what is and isn't Batman, but I'll have to double check.

There's also The TV Tropes Wiki article, but beware: that website has a tendency to gobble up one's free time.

ETA:
Fun Fact: Before I joined FoLCdom, my screen name was Batgirl1 (and still is, in some circles.)

EATA:
You're welcome.

Just a point - Episcopalians generally get very annoyed when described as RC lite :rolleyes:
No matter how true it may look.

The author of cattails a long series of excellent Batman/Catwoman stories put together a Wayne family history from mostly canon bits. Wayne Family History. The Wayne family goes back to when the British take Gotham from the Dutch, his mothers side Martha Van Geisen goes back farther. Wayne Manor sits on the last few hundred acres of Wayne Manorship that once was all the northern suburbs of Gotham city.

Canon Alfred was in British intelligence in occupied France during WW II and had a daughter Julia Remarque. Her mother was the DC war heroine Mademoiselle Marie, whom Alfred had met while working as an intelligence agent in occupied France during World War II.

I ran a Batman Continues rpg game recently my notes are at Batman Continues . I had as many side characters as possible dragged in to give the players people to chose from but still might give you useful stuff. The timeline is using the 1939 first issue as the start and going on then with normal aging, kids etc.

In canon Superman appeared about a year after Batman so they should be around the same age.

I would highly recommend reading the Superman/Batman series. I think there are 7 of them currently. They are incredibly good at portraying the relationship between the two men, both Batman/Superman and Bruce/Clark. They show the thoughts of each man, which although running along very similar lines, definitely show that they are two sides of the same coin (i.e. Bruce: In a very short time with no one hurt, everything is solved; Clark: A long hour later with thousands of people terrified out of their minds, the nightmare is ended. Or something along those lines).

If you go by these, which I believe are newer comic books, Thomas Wayne and his wife were driving through Kansas for some reason or another (I can't recall exactly why), when they saw a meteorite land nearby. Thomas, being a curious man, touched it and his consciousness was transported to Krypton, where Jor-El spoke to him to find out if Earth was a good place to send his son. Because Thomas's wife (whose name is also Martha, curiously enough) is pregnant at the time with Bruce, Thomas is able to give good answers to Jor-El, namely telling him that if he were to find a baby, regardless of if it were in a spaceship or not, he would treat it as his own. Therefore, Jor-El decides Earth is the place to send Kal-El.

When Thomas returns to Earth (only seconds of his time after his departure), he takes the communication device and begins developing its technology and patenting it, which is where he got all the money Bruce inherited.

Discovering this really goes a long way in developing Clark and Bruce's relationship.

I don't know if that helps or not, but I really enjoyed the books even though before them I wasn't a Batman fan. I don't recall that they reveal how they discovered each other's identity (although it is brought out that Bruce is careful to line his cowls with lead), but it does touch on the different aspects of him in regards to Clark/Superman.

And though I believe someone else already said this, it is a huge point that Batman does NOT kill anyone. In fact, he goes to great lengths to make sure that he doesn't ever end anyone's life.

Hope it helps

--from another L&C fan just discovering bits of Batman.

Alfred was in British intelligence? I wonder if he ever worked with Nigel. I sense the start of a story here. I have no intention of writing it up, but if anyone else is interested in doing so, be my guest.

Joy,
Lynn

1) The only person who knows his secret identity is his Butler/friend: Alfred.

Also:
Dr. Leslie Thompkins, his doctor.
The villain Ras Al Ghul and his daughter Talia (In current movie continuity RAG is one of the first villains Bruce fights, the main terrorist plot of Batman Begins). In some versions of the story Bruce has an illegitimate son, Damien, via Talia.
Superman and Lois Lane, and at least a couple of other members of the JLA (but that's probably later in his career)
Villain Hugo Strange (but Batman tricked other villains into thinking he was mistaken; also probably later)
Vicki Vale (some versions)
Selina Kyle - Catwoman (some versions - one recent version has her as the mother of another illegitimate child)
Lucius Fox, CEO of Wayne Enterprises (some versions, not all)


2) Batman is more violent than Superman and does not live by Superman's code (work within the system, tell the truth, don't harm humans, never kill - even bad guys)

He doesn't kill, and follows the law when it comes to proving that criminals are guilty, but that's about it. While the current version hates guns, earlier versions in e.g. the 1930s sometimes disagreed.

3) Batman carries a piece of Kryptonite with him 'just in case'
- Superman goes bad
- Superman wants to 'capture Batman' - the vigilante
- ???

Varies - I'd say that he has acquired a piece of his own at some point, and also been given some by Superman. He doesn't carry it routinely once he and Superman are working together, in case it's lost or stolen by a villain.

My questions about Batman:

1) Does Batman have his own 'code of conduct'?

as others have stated - crime doesn't pay, don't kill, hand over criminals to the authorities.

2) What is the official story of how Batman meets Superman? How did they become friends?

Two main versions of this - in the classic stories of the 1950s they were guests aboard a yacht which was attacked by criminals, went to change into their costumes, and discovered each other's identities.

The other version is more recent and has them cooperating on investigating the murder of a prominent doctor, and gradually becoming colleagues before they were friends. It's summarised reasonably well in one of the Cat Tales stories mentioned above.


3) Any information about Wayne Enterprises and/or Wayne Foundation.

Wayne Enterprises and daughter companies such as Wayetech are very diversified industrial / technological / engineering companies with fingers in a lot of pies - the current version owns the Daily Planet, for example.

See this Wikipedia article for a list of activities
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Enterprises
This also has a section on the Wayne Foundation

The Wayne Foundation is a charity - it's funded by the Wayne family, I think it also owns a chunk of Wayne Enterprises stock though that isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article.

4) Any other juicie and fun tidbits that I might be able to use.

See above re. children - but probably much later in Batman continuity.

5) Any links to help me in my research would also be most helpful.

Cat Tales definitely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Batman_supporting_characters

Hope this helps.

In this page there's a list of people who found out Batman's secret identity:

http://nothingbutbatman.blogspot.com/2010/04/batmans-secret-identity.html

And in the animated series Justice League Unlimited in the episode Starcrossed, all the members revealed their secret identities to each other.

WOW! What great feedback. All this information is terrific. Keep it coming. I'll definitely have to rework my opening scene (yes, you told me so, Iolanthe), but I think the other ones will still work... but now I can add more meat to them thar bones.

What are some of your favorite "Bat" tools?

The classic one that someone came up for in a competition years ago was the "Bat-kite," basically a kite with various accessories including a miniature TV camera, grapnels, etc. - lots of different functions, unfortunately I can't now remember all of them. Unfortunately it's not in the equipment archive here

http://members.fortunecity.com/kainwind/archive.html

One thing I think is canon but I know via the Cattails fanfic. Hell month. Bruce's parents were killed in January and every year when December rolls around he gets tied up with Wayne Enterprises Christmas events, Wayne Foundation charity fundraisers and such that he can't avoid. Many rogues unless they come up with a holiday theme crime are less visible. So January rolls around and he feels he has been slacking off. The smarter crooks lay low or operate in come other city because the know that being caught in January comes with extra amounts of pummeling even though they don't know why.

Clip of the reveal here

Oh, and here we have

Superman revealing his identity to Lois


Hugo Strange learns Bruce Wayne's secret

I know this one isn't Batman related, but it is hilarious! Thanks for the recommendation and for all the information.

And here's Lex Luthor (temporarily in the Flash's body) running into an unexpected secret identity problem

On the secret identity question yet again: I've just seen the animated "The Batman Superman Movie," subtitled "World's Finest," which has another version of Bruce and Clark's mutual revelations.

Joker steals a statue made from a Kryptonite meteor and brings it to Metropolis, where he does a deal with Lex Luthor - he'll eliminate Superman for a billion dollars. Luthor agrees. Meanwhile Bats has seen some stone fragments from the statue and realises it's Kryptonite. He has business with Luthor as Bruce Wayne, so flies to Metropolis to do that and investigate.

Batman starts interrogating criminals in Metropolis, and Superman eventually turns up to intervene. Batman somehow uses a judo throw on him, and they start to fight. During the fight Superman uses his X-ray vision to see through Bruce's cowl - Superman gasps, and Batman says "You peeked!" and explains about the Kryptonite.

What he doesn't mention is that during the fight he planted a bug on Superman's cloak. A while later, as Clark is getting ready for bed, he finds the bug and looks out of the window to see Batman watching him through binoculars from a distant building.

Much later Bruce is forced to ditch his cloak and hood during a fight, and Lois learns his secret identity. There's also an abortive Bruce-Lois romance (Lois has no idea who Superman is) but while she likes Bruce she doesn't like Batman and it ends once she knows the truth.

It's actually a very intelligent little movie, about an hour long, and works well as part of the animated canon. I can't find any of this film's revelations on Youtube, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're there.

And here's a collection of revelations from various versions of Superman

I haven't seen any of the animated series (it on my to-do list, after watching Smallville series), but that one sounds interesting. I loved all those clips, especailly with Lex unmasking himself as the Flash and saying "I have no idea who you are." So, Lex.

I enjoyed the top 10 revelations youtube clip, but does everyone in Smallville know that Clark is 'The Blur'?!

I found it interesting that, just as in L&C, so too in Smallville, there are two revelations involving Lois. Out of curiosity, what caused Smallville's Lois to forget the first revelation?

Joy,
Lynn

I've seen a few now and get the impression that the animated Batman episodes are the best - JLA and Superman are OK, but not as good as Batman.

Just a quick question: How did Robin's folks die?

Is it a set in stone answer, like how Bruce's folks died, or have there been several different storylines with the same basic result?

Thanks.

It's pretty consistent - they died in a fall after sabotage of their equipment, as part of a protection racket.

Robin's parents were acrobats, tight-rope walkers or trapesse artists or all of the above?

Trapeze Artists. I always thought "acrobat" was an interchangeable term, though; maybe I'm wrong?

Still, it was a trapeze act that killed them. They were called "The Flying Graysons", and Bruce's "This-is-really-me-and-not-a-clone" password for Dick is (according to TvTropes) "That Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze". (It's a song lyric! =D)

ETA: Fun Fact! In Robin's debut comic in 1940, when Bruce was training him, when they got to the part about swinging from ropes, Dick said that he'd been rope-swinging since he was 3. Bruce commented that the youngster could probably teach *him* a thing or two.

Incidentally, Robin's parents' deaths also figured into one of the story lines in the Superman radio series.

Joy,
Lynn

Thanks for all the info people! Thought I'd add a little Batman lore into my new story as well. Explain a little bit why Mason doesn't like men in tights.

Maybe she just doesn't like the song "Men In Tights" from the Robin Hood spoof by Mel Brooks. It came out the same year L&C debuted on-air.

Here\'s the song.

That's hillarious. What movie is that from?

Robin Hood: Men in Tights
A great pendant to the Kevin Costner version.

Michael

Edit: typo

Thank you, Michael. I was thinking it might be, but I thought that movie had Cary Elwes (of Princess Bride fame) as Robin Hood. Wonder what I'm thinking of instead? Oh, well, doesn't really matter. My daughter loved the men dancing in tights clip, too.

Canon has Tim Drake the third Robin figuring out who Batman is from spotting that Robin used the same aerial maneuvers he had seen Dick Greyson using when he went to the circus as a child. Dick had been the youngest person the do a quadruple somersault and Robin was shown in news footage doing one. So if Dick had been Robin then Bruce Wayne must be Batman. So he walked next door and said he was going to be the new Robin after Dick refused to go back to the role.

He is. "Unlike other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent." That scene had Little John, Will Scarlett O'Hara, Achoo, and Blinkin, Robin's blind manservent.

A few days ago I picked up a boxed set of ten animated DVDs which was fairly cheap and is a sampler for these series:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270796478912

Don't know if it's available outside the UK.

It's an interesting collection - first you get three feature-length films - Mystery of the Batwoman, The Batman-Superman Movie, and Batman - Mask of the Phantasm. All of these are pretty good, Mask of the Phantasm is very good indeed, and all of them have a very film noir feel.

Next there are five disks with a total of sixteen episodes of the Batman animated series - they can all be found in the seasons 1 and 2 boxed sets, unfortunately.

Finally, there are two disks of Batman - The Brave and the Bold, eight episodes. These are team-ups between Batman and other superheroes - unfortunately not Superman, but you get Plastic Man, Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, etc. Unfortunately I didn't like the animation, a combination of traditional and CGI methods that didn't quite work for me; it gave me the impression that they only spent money on animations that were used a lot, such as the Batmobile.

If you haven't seen any of the animated episodes it's worth a look.

We all know that Metropolis is in the state of New Troy. Does anyone know which state Gotham City resides? Or is it a city-state like Washington DC? (Not that DC is technically a state, because it doesn't have representation in the Senate, a big sore point for anyone actually residing in DC.)

The comics are usually vague on locations. New Troy as a state is I think a L&C invention. Some canon has the two cities on opposite sides of Delaware Bay. Gotham to the New Jersey side, Metropolis on the Delaware side. DC geography

New Troy is one of the boroughs of the city in the comics.

They are close together however.

I read this description while during a cursory look through Wikipedia and liked it. It makes more sense than outlying suburbs type cities to New York. I was just wondering if Gotham City was considered within New Troy or not. But inside Jersey kind of fitting, isn't it?

In Smallville New Troy is the state on the license plates of the cars from Metropolis. I find it funny (funny wonderful) that Smallville would adapt something from L&C as most of DC / Superman universe seems likes to act as if LnC never existed. (Better than Superboy, yet worse than Superman Returns on the scale. This is the vibe I got, not my opinon.) Of course, :rolleyes: Smallville's Metropolis is within a 3 hour drive of Smallville.

Okay, another question on Gotham City. Even if it doesn't have an offical state in which it is located, is there an official "county"? Also, is Wayne Manor located within GC city limits or outside of it, in the countryside?

Thank you again for all of you in the know.

Don't know what county. I have seen one map that had the shore north of the city labeled Gotham County. Wayne Manor is outside the city on the mainland and is on the last few hundred acres of what used to be many square miles of Wayne land from when England captured the place from the Dutch.

Several maps are at mapping Gotham . ON the second "No Man's Land" map, Wayne Manor is at 3 where the highway has a upside down T on the north side of the river. That article also links to a tourist map of Gotham which explains where many of the names on the map come from.