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I'm enjoying Nan's new Home story, but I've started to get lost in the cousins. How about you? Courtesy of wikipedia, here is how cousins are related:



Hope this helps. There is waaayyyy more detail on wikipedia.


Artemis

Unless your name is Clark Jerome Kent [the original, isn't there like 4 Clarks or something?] in which case you're everyone's second cousin .

And thanks. I reread the whole thing [okay, I skimmed some of it] recently and was trying to figure out how the Blue Djinn and Typhoon were related to Meri etc. [Of course, if Typhoon isn't Blue Djinn's son then I'm all mixed up anyway .] Or the guy from Tanzanika...

Carol

Kamil Hamid (Typhoon) is Ali Hamid (The Blue Djinn)'s son, so the cousin chart doesn't apply. I'm trying to work up and example and will post back.

Artemis

Sorry, I read your post too fast. You want to relate Typhoon to Meriel Olson. It's easy using the family history chart. Go up the chain:
Meriel Olson
John Olson (father)
Lynn Kent (grandmother)
CJ Kent (Tan-EL)(great grandfather)
Clark Kent (Superman) (great-great grandfather)

Kamil Hamid (Typhoon)
Ali Hamid (Blue Djinn)
Ellen Kent (grandmother)
CJ Kent (Tan-El) (great grandfather)
Clark Kent (Superman) (great great grandfather)
Their grandmothers are sisters.

Write one list along the top and the other down the side. Where the name Clark intersects is the degree of cousin. In this case, they are third cousins. Edit: As Vicki points out, it is the first common ancestor, who is CJ (Tan-El). They are secondcousins.

Similarly, Titan and Typhoon are Second Cousins once removed.

Also Uma Kent and Oliver Brent are Second Cousins once removed.

Artemis

HAH! I'm going to print that out and take that to my family reunion. I can't get anyone to understand what 2nd cousins really are.

/head spins

who's the guy in white from Tanzanika?

Or am I totally wrong?

/more head spins



Carol

From your list, CJ Kent (Tan-El) is Meriel's and Typhoon's nearest common ancestor - where CJ's name intersects would then be the degree of cousins - making them second cousins.

Carol - Titan is the guy in white from Tanzanika. He's Perry Kent (one of the twins) son.
Typhoon is the kid from San Francisco who's studying in Metropolis.
Vicki, you're right. I was too obsessed with Clark. It's got to be the first common ancestor. Second Cousins it is.

Artemis

I need a wall sized copy of that chart - seriously .

For some reason I was thinking the dark skinned guy from Tanzanika had a slightly more exotic name than 'Perry' .

Carol

No, Perry Kent is his father. Titan, the superhero from Tanzanika, is Jonas Kent. His brother is Zebadiah Kent, otherwise known as Eclipse.

Nan

Sheesh.

See.

Wall sized.

Maybe even two walls.

Yeah - now that I reread it, I see that he's Perry Kent's son - Perry is a twin but I forget his twin's name [and don't have that wall size chart handy ]. I just remember Clark saying/thinking something at one of the big family shindigs that Perry or Twin was carrying a bunch of stuff - like 4 coolers or something and for some reason I was thinking fairly young - like late teens/twenties and he couldn't ever keep them straight. Don't know why I thought they were young, but I really didn't think Perry/Twin were old enough to have kids that were already superheros.

Although - now that I have a printer that works, maybe I should print one out next time I read through it...

Thanks for straightening me out guys .
Carol

His twin is James Kent. I'll repeat the history here that I gave Diane a couple of days ago.

Rachel Johnson, who is married to CJ Kent, was married to Martin Greer first. It was a lifetime marriage, but he was killed in an accident during the original mining team's work on the Moon. CJ met her after he came to assist the mining team and they were married three years later. Rachel and Martin had a daughter, who was a baby when her father was killed. She was raised considering CJ as her father. Her name is Myra Greer, and she married her cousin by adoption, James Kent, the twin of Perry Kent.

Just one more little snippet of Kent family history. Now the question is, considering that she is CJ's adopted daughter and Jon Kent's daughter in law, what would you call her in relation to the rest of the family? This could get almost as complicated as Marcy Lyons, who is Ryan Kent's wife and her younger sister's step grand daughter in law. <g>

Nan

I started a new thread with the updated charts, but I'll put them here too.





If Myra was CJ's biological daughter, she and James would be first cousins. But since she is adopted, she's not related at all to James, but she is related to Rachel's descendants. Her descendants would need to be careful about marrying any of CJ's.

For bigger wall sized copies go to:
http://www.folcsite.com/misc/bighomegen.jpg
and
http://www.folcsite.com/misc/bighomegen2.jpg


Artemis

Let's see if I can get this right...

Mary Lucille Kent
Lori Lyons[Mother]
Robert Lyons [Grandfather]
Catherine Lyons [Great Grandmother]
???? [Great Great Grandparent]
Lucy Lane [Great Great Great Grandmother]
Sam/Ellen Lane [Great Great Great Great Grandparents]

CJ/Lara/Annie/Jon
Lois Lane [Mother]
Sam/Ellen Lane [Grandparents]

So Mary's half-brothers/sisters are also her first cousins four times removed.

And Lori's stepkids are also her first cousins three times removed.

Talk about convoluted .
Carol

You got it, Carol! And Marcy's sister is her step granddaughter.

Artemis
Yeah, I meant Lori's sister Marcy is Lori's step granddaughter. Yep, get's confusing.

Yeah - that one's easy .

But this:

So Myra's step/adopted uncle is also her father in law.

Her kids would be:

unnamed child/ren of Myra and James
Myra [parent]
CJ [adopted grandfather]
Clark [adopted great grandfather]

unnamed child/ren of Myra and James
James [parent]
Jon [grandparent]
Clark [great grandfather]

So the children of James/Myra would be their own [adopted] second cousins.
Carol

You mean Lori's sister, Marcy, is her step-grand daughter.

And this is getting complicated.

Nan

Okay so...

Robbie Kent and Mary Lucille Kent are first cousins, but they are also...

Robbie
Ryan [parent]
Jon [grandparent]
Clark/Lois [great grandparents]

Mary
Clark [grandparent]

First cousins once removed. [seems like it should be more than that so...]

*And*

They're also step-first cousins four times removed if you count Lois as Mary's 'stepmom' like Lori is CJ/Annie/Lara/Jon's stepmom [yeah, I know it doesn't *really* work that way but go with it].

Robbie
Marcy [parent]
Robert [grandparent]
Catherine [great grandparent]
???? [great great grandparent]
Lucy [great great great grandparent]
Sam/Ellen [great great great great grandparent]

Mary
Clark [parent]
Sam/Ellen [step grandparents - sort of]

/head spins some more

Carol said:
First, you forgot Ellen with Robert/Norman/Lynn. but Rachel, not Myra is the parent. Myra is half sister to Robert/Ellen/Norman/Lynn.
Now this is only with two husbands. What about the families we see on the news with 5 husbands (or wives)!
What a situation!

Yeah - I missed Ellen in that list [was trying to figure out how Sam/Ellen were supposed to be on the list but then saw that Ellen is their sister].

Clark's right - they've got enough kids with the same names around. I count two CJs [Clark/Lois son, Jon's son] and one Clark - I'm guessing the CJ's are both Clarks.

And I edited it to be Myra/James' unnamed children. Though that's so convoluted that maybe Nan won't give them kids .
Carol

Don't bet on it. They've got grandkids by this time.

Nan

So Mary Lucille is also...

Mary
Lois [step mom - go with it]
Sam/Ellen [step grandparents]

Mary
Lori [parent]
Robert [grandparent]
Catherine [great grandparent]
???? [great great grandparent]
Lucy [great great great grandparent]
Sam/Ellen [great great great great grandparent]

...her own step second cousin three times removed.

Okay - I really should be writing instead of seeing how convoluted Nan's family tree is.

Carol

One CJ is Clark Jerome like the original and the other is Clark James. That point was made in a story I read recently.

Artemis

Oh, what fun!


Great chart, Artemis!


But guess what? If they cross family lines they can be both. I don’t have my genealogical info in front of me, but let me see if I can get this straight (or close to it). My father’s paternal grandmother’s brother’s child married my father’s half-sister (they shared the same mother) making my father both uncle and cousin to his half-sister’s children. Or something like that... (His half-sister was no relation to my father’s great uncle.) Did that make sense? Probably not....


If they are like my mom’s family, they get really confused when you start saying someone is a ‘removed’ cousin. One way I explain it is if they are in the same generation then they are 1st or 2nd cousins, etc. If they cross generations then they are ‘removed’.


Nan, do you have to keep your own chart? I’m sure I would 'cause I'd be confused. I have a huge wall-sized chart to keep track of the genealogical info I've done.


My head is spinning.


So I have a question that I thought of when I read Nan’s first story in the Home series. What if at some point, Clark lost contact with all of his grandchildren? Say, for instance, he went to New Krypton or maybe everyone thought he was dead but he was really in coma somewhere. Around the 10th generation down, he wakes up or comes back. He finds another incarnation of Lois / Lori who also happens to be his far removed granddaughter. They would share hardly any of the same genetic information. So would it be okay for them to marry? (Yes, I know I come up with weird questions.)

Since I love to dabble in genetics and stochastic, let's see...

If this girl was the tenth generation of his offspring (without any inbreeding within the Kent clan in her line), she'd share about 1/1024 of her genetic material with Clark, although it might (theoretically) range between 1/2 (highly unlikely) or zero (unlikely, but definitely more likely than 1/2). This would make them about as related to each other as two people who aren't related at all.

So, I guess it would be okay for them to marry. Although you Americans might still object because they still are related... *g* But you know my views on that matter.

It thought that if a person were adopted she would have all of the same relationship as if she were natural-born, regardless of blood.


Elisabeth

Thanks, Classicalla:
Well, she used to at the beginning, but now she uses mine (polishes fingernails on chest - just kidding).
She e-mails me new stuff and I add it to the chart. The hard part is figuring out where to put it, hence the use of "#" to indicate more detail below.
Elisabeth said:
True. CJ raised Myra as his own. However, if you fall in love with your first cousin, you have an out because you are not a blood relative. However, if you tried that with your half-brother, you'd be in trouble.

As to the remove:
from wikipedia


Artemis

Half-Cousins from wikipedia:
There is a whole set of math that can go with this cousin thing. But it was too much detail even for me.

Artemis

<quote>

"If this girl was the tenth generation of his offspring (without any inbreeding within the Kent clan in her line), she'd share about 1/1024 of her genetic material with Clark, although it might (theoretically) range between 1/2 (highly unlikely) or zero (unlikely, but definitely more likely than 1/2). This would make them about as related to each other as two people who aren't related at all.

So, I guess it would be okay for them to marry. Although you Americans might still object because they still are related... *g* But you know my views on that matter. [Smile]"

Actually, from what I've been told, in the US, anyone with ancestry from the British Isles is approximately sixth cousin to any other person with ancestry from the British Isles, so, in that sense, most of us are already related.

Nan

So true!
One thing I learned on my trip to Ireland last October was how interrelated the Scottish and Irish are. Many Scots came to Northern Ireland (still part of the UK) to work the plantations for the English masters and married into Irish families. So even an Irish name like Lyons (yes it is! I found that out in the Belfast genealogy library) can have a lot of Scots in it. BTW, I'm a LeHane, descended from Lyons.
To compound the whole thing further, the Vikings continually raided Ireland over the centuries and took young girls as slaves. So my Norwegian/Swedish side is probably Scots Irish too.

Artemis

More on Lyons from digging through my own ancestry:

Artemis

You know, there is a nice little program called Family Tree Maker that would help out here...

James

Thanks James. I know about it. It's really a more complex tool than I need for this job and takes more space.
regards
Artemis

Don't ask me why this occurred to me while driving kids home from the new Veggies but it did...

Ryan
Jon [parent]
Lois [grandparent]
Sam/Ellen [great grandparents]

Marcy
Robert [parent]
Catherine [grandparent]
???? [great grandparent]
Lucy [great great grandparent]
Sam/Ellen [great great great grandparent]

Ryan and Marcy are second cousins twice removed though they didn't know it when they met/married...

*head spinning thing*

Carol

<g> Second cousins twice removed is pretty remote. I doubt that anyone would bat an eye at it. I'd think there would be many more questions about the long lifespans of some of the Kent family members.

Nan

You mean the whole he's like 25 years older than her thing ? Or something like that - I'd have to go back to Honeymoon to figure it out and I don't have the time to do that right now .

Or is it more than that? Jon's in his early-mid 90s and I want to say Ryan was in his mid-late 50s when he met Marcy who's something like 9 years older [iirc] than Lori who was 21 when she married Clark [yeah - okay - so he was 109 when she was born - that's a bit more extreme than Marcy and Ryan ].

Carol

I really hope that they have someone with access to government records who can do an occasional bit of editing, or the longevity is going to lead to a lot of questions. Someone with a senior position in the late 21st century equivalent of e.g. the Witness Protection Program would be useful.

We won't go into all that -- I think it would be sort of tedious. One would think that, with as long as the Kent clan and the Superman Foundation have been around, that they would have established some methods of dealing with such problems.

On more immediate matters, I hope to have the next part done before I head off to LAFF on Thursday. I'll do my best, anyhow.

Nan

If I remember right, Nan mentioned in one of the earliest Home stories an Age of Disturbance? (Disaster?) where most records had been lost during looting and fires. So that probably did a big chunk of it.

Artemis

That would be the Decade of Unrest.

Nan