Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related not exactly a characterization question

While I wouldn't say that it was entirely Lois's fault, it is true to say that it was more her fault than Clark's, I think. Lois had been bitten badly in love previously - twice at least that we know of - and badly betrayed by the men she'd trusted, both professionally and romantically. It wasn't entirely surprising, therefore, that she would be gun shy and take some time to break down the walls she'd built around herself for protection and learn to trust again.

Part of what I love about the show is that Clark saw straight through that tough shell to the Lois who snuffled at soap operas in bed right away, saw that she was so much more than the tough, hardbitten image she projected, and had the patience to stick with her till she realised he wasn't going to be the next jerk in line.

LabRat

This is exactly why I like the LnC version. *Neither* is perfect and both have very human flaws, even the great Kal-El. Clark doesn't place himself above the rest of humanity and the costumed superhero is nothing more than a disguise for the farmboy from Kansas. He's human in all but fact. He makes mistakes, he loses his temper, he sulks, he plays practical jokes, as we see in Neverending Battle. Lois, on the other hand, isn't any more perfect. She's not a virgin when Clark meets her and we're led to believe that her past relationships with men were fairly disastrous. She's a hard-driving reporter who will go to just about any lengths for a story, and frequently does something on the spur of the moment that she regrets later when she has time to think about it -- but she's certainly not stupid. And once she takes the time to get to know Clark she realizes that he isn't a jerk like the guys in her past -- but it takes a while.

Lois and Clark, for all its campiness, is the incarnation of the Superman mythos that I really fell hard for, which is why I'm still here.

Nan

But one's body and looks does effect personality. A slightly built man with fine features will have different experiences than a man four to five inches taller.

These differences will color his outlook. He won't have as imposing a demeanor as Superman. It will be harder for him to impress people and harder for him to prove himself.

A shorter Clark will likely be more intense as he needs that edge to get through to people. He has to push harder simply due to being shorter.

I would liken it to dog sizes - German Shepherds and collies are medium-large. They are smart and (depending on the personality) don't need to bark much unless trained to - they have enough size to do what they need to do. A Saint Bernard - ditto. All the Saint Bernards I've known were gentle giants.

Terriers on the other hand - their size works against them and they compensate with loudness and snarkiness.

I can see Lois as a terrier. Dean Cain's Clark is definitely a German Shepherd and Brandon Routh's Clark is a Saint Bernhard or Afghan Hound. (Put away the breakables, Clark is here.)

:p

Hmmmm. This thread made me think of how I thought Michael Landis was all wrong as Jimmy Olsen, because he looked wrong. Jimmy Olsen, tall and dark-haired? Come on....

Anyway, I googled for pictures of Jimmy, but I came upon this picture instead. An image of young Clark. Well... he is less musclebound than usual, and he looks generally slimmer and more fine-boned, doesn't he?



Ann

I wrote a story, Gender Bender, in which Lois and Clark were born as people of the opposite sex.

It can be found here. Don't worry...it's short.

http://www.lcficmbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005925#000000

It was written probably as well as most of my other stories, but there were fewer responses than most of my other stories. A few people privately admitted to me that the idea made them a little uncomfortable.

Apparently, Clark with red hair is ok, but Clark with breasts isn't.

Shayne, I somehow missed "Gender Bender" when it was posted, so clicked on the link and read it. I thought it was a very interesting re-imagining of the pilot with gender reversal. I can't see that going the same direction as the series, but it might be an interesting universe to explore. And while it didn't make me uncomfortable, I could tell that these two people had some similarities to Lois and Clark but also had some striking differences. I liked it.

Carol, you wrote:

I know that Dandello has already responded directly to this, and for the most part I agree with her evaluation. It's not that being about average height and less attractive (at least, that's what I get from the description, but what do I know about how good-looking another guy is?) would change his character, but it would definitely change the way he grew up, and it would change the way people respond to him, for better or for worse. Clark would either accept being part of the crowd and blend in, or he'd behave in a more aggressive manner in order to compensate. And since the Clark you're describing seems to be less physically attractive than Dean Cain, I'd guess that the "god in tights" description would not be applied to him.

Remember also that part of Superman's "presence" is derived from his appearance. Resplendent Man was just as fast, just as strong, just as super-powered as Superman, but even had he not sent people bills for services rendered, he wouldn't have enjoyed the public acclaim Superman did simply because he didn't look the part. A Superman who doesn't "look the part" is going to have to do something different to compensate.

(I thought Resplendent Man looked dumpy in his uniform, anyway. Chubby guys should not wear spandex.)

And we haven't even mentioned how Lois might respond to him. Would she be as impressed as "our" Lois was? Would she blow him off personally and treat him only as an interesting source of news stories? Or would it be somewhere in between? And wouldn't that provide some relationship fodder!

That's not to say that you couldn't or shouldn't post a story like this. I know I'd read it, and I think it would be an interesting universe to write about. After all, we're in this to have fun with it, aren't we?

Resplendant Man's personality traits were substantially different from those of CK/S - I'm not sure that they can be accounted for entirely by his physical appearance. Besides RM was quite a lot shorter than average. Interesting thoughts about how height and body size influence personality and people's perceptions, though.

Actually, I was sort of envisioning a young Paul Newman but with grey eyes

c.

I agree. I've always associated a good strong voice with tall, muscled men and soft squeaky voice with short, fat-bellied men.

Dunno if it's true but I can picture it only like that!!!

But even if we start a comic-book or a series named Resplendent Man, with all the good qualities of Clark Kent (Lois and Clark: New adventures of Superman version, not the comic-book skirt-chaser version), I don't think it'll affect us as much as Superman did.

I mean, look at the numerous nfics we've written. Would anybody want to try writing one for RM? (Tank, not you! Please!)

Or even if an nfic did concentrate on RM, would you read it?

I don't think I will...

Any changes in eye color or hair color I may consider, but changing the personality? the build? that chest? those muscles? ... definitely not!

noooo - banish those Rm thoughts.

Think instead - young Paul Newman - check out some classic films and see.

c.

Well, Carol, I've sounded negative to the idea of a major change of Clark/Superman's appearance. But at the same time, I think such a fic would be interesting.

I really think we are too fixated on people's looks these days. Personally, I often prefer British films over American films, simply because the actors often look more "normal", more "average", less "perfect" and less glamorous in British films than in American films. And when the actors look more normal, the characters they play often strike me as more believable and real, too.

This reminds me of what a small boy said to his mom, after he had seen a number of movies and then accompanied his mother to a big shopping mall. He looked around, contemplated the people around him, compared them with the people he used to see on TV, and then said to his mom:

"Mommy, how come most people are uglier than most people?"

I think it would be interesting to meet a Clark Kent who is an average-looking guy, a "run-of-the-mill" person when it comes to his looks. Most of us are. Why shouldn't Clark be like that?

I recently watched a first-season episode of LnC, where we actually saw Jor-El and Lara put their baby boy in his spaceship and launch him toward the Earth. Jor-El and Lara both looked rather blond and pale, and I thought that two people who looked like them couldn't possibly have a biological son with Dean Cain's dark hair, brown eyes and olive complexion.

So please do write your story, Carol. It should be interesting to see Clark having to deal with the dual problem of being an average-looking, not obviously impressive guy, while at the same time having to keep his awesome superpowers a secret to everyone who laughs at him. Come to think of it, this premise sounds a lot like Jerry Siegel's and Joe Shuster's original take on Clark Kent. But I guess your Superman won't look as impressive in tights as Siegel and Shuster's Superman did.

Ann

We tend to forget that the pseudo-science of eugenics was not confined to Nazi Germany in the 1930's. Supposedly reputable scientists all over the world bought into it in varying degrees. In fact, the insults "moron," "idiot," and "retard" originated as medical terms, used to describe the intelligence level of certain classes of people. They were often applied to new immigrants coming to the US who spoke little or no English and could not possibly have understood what they were being asked or told. So Superman was envisioned as being the physical ideal of so many societies of the day, but also as one possessing the moral compass so many societies of the day lacked.

Ann could certainly converse fluently in Swedish, but I know that I could not. If I were given an intelligence test in Swedish or Russian or Swahili, I'd fail miserably despite whatever level of intelligence I might possess. Let's not forget that this was the world in which Jerry Siegel and Jerry Schuster were trying to survive, one in which immigrants from all over the world were marginalized and treated as less than worthy of consideration.

American society has progressed somewhat since then, but the basic problem of judging people by their "differentness" hasn't disappeared. Even though we don't do it on the cultural level we once did, it still happens. And a shorter, less physically striking Superman would be received differently by the general public.

(Of course, if he were a young, gray-eyed Paul Newman, Lois might still trip on her tongue while lusting after him.)

Siegel and Schuster saw the problems immigrants were going through. They understood the prejudice that was applied to so many sub-cultures, especially Jewish ones, and they brought out a hero who was an immigrant, who fought for justice and truth (and not for the current political power structure), and who could not be hurt by anything thrown at him by those ignorant savages he was trying to help.

Krypton was initially described by Siegel and Schuster as a planet where people had evolved into tall, strong, intelligent, handsome, peaceful people. Their super-human physical abilities (the vision thingy and the flying came much later) were common, and they were only brought down by their own hubris.

Kal-El was the sole survivor of that magnificent civilization, a man with the genetic blueprint of those marvelous people. Because Clark/Superman was raised by a salt-of-the-earth couple in rural Mid-America, people without economic opportunities (remember, this was also during the worldwide Great Depression) could identify with the country-boy-makes-good image he projected.

Superman's creators were Jewish by heritage, but instead of making a Jewish superhero, they created someone who embodied the immigrant experience and transcended it. Superman is, after all, the ultimate outsider looking in, always surrounded by humanity but forever alien from it. He can either pretend to be something he thinks he ultimately isn't in order to "blend in," or he can stand aloof from them and use his abilities openly, but unless he disguises himself he can't do both. Originally, Superman disguised himself as Clark Kent, but I prefer to describe Clark disguising himself as Superman. This is a very Jewish mindset, one which those folks have struggled with for as long as they haven't had a land to call home. Perhaps the American Indian experience approaches this level of cultural conflict, but it hasn't gone on for nearly as long.

L&C's take on Clark trying so very hard to be human was (and continues to be) emblematic of our own struggle to fit into a constantly shifting world today. Siegel and Schuster were struggling artists just trying to make a living when they penned the first Superman tale, but they've bequeathed to us a fascinating portrait of a man whose very strength can be his greatest weakness, a man who - despite his striking differences - is essentially no different from the rest of us.

Carol, I think you should write this story. I think this is something that should be shared. I believe it will engender some intelligent discussion within our community.

Thank you, Jerry and Jerry. And thank all of you FOLCs who continue to keep the dream alive.

Uh... yeah, I think I can live with Clark looking like a young Paul Newman .

Young Paul Newman. That's not exactly your average-looking kind of guy.



He seemed to smoke a lot (young Paul Newman, I mean). Hopefully your Clark won't. Smoking won't harm him, but his secondary smoke will harm other people.

Anyway, young Paul Newman could sure be romantic:



He actually looked somewhat Superman-like himself:



A guy who looks like young Paul Newman can't be described as appearance-challenged.

Ann

lovely

C A & Ann, thank-you!

c.

Hmm. I guess looks is the thing I'm least hung up on when it comes to LnC. I don't linger on descriptions of characters when I read at all really, so unless looks meant something plot-wise (like wearing disguises or something or I remember like some fic in which Lois' weight was thematized), I wouldn't be paying attention to it.

The fact that Dean Cain is attractive doesn't really mean that much to me. It only comes to mean something when you pit him alongside RM in nfic or something *shudder*.

I liked Shayne's Gender Bender, I had no problem visualizing the characters in my head. It was great to see how the changes affected the protagonists.


alcyone

Yes, me neither - it's not 'looks' that make the man. although I agree with those who've suggested that appearance does affect to some degree how some people perceive the characters or abilities of others. It shouldn't be that way, but it sometimes is.

c.

Oh definitely. I wonder how this would translate in fanfic though. First, I think an author would have to constantly remind the readers of the change in appearance, be it through other's comments in the story or introspective moments. Following that necessity, I don't know how I would take it to have Clark (or others) be so caught up in how he looks within the story (presumming he's just "ordinary")--this focus on the looks of a "normal" guy seems unrealistic. If he's that ordinary, I'd argue, he'd just fade into the background (kind of like we're meant to think he does in the series, which is where the problem lies--the series wants us to think attractive is normal).

If he were unattractive by mass standards (a la RM) I agree this would begin to cross the characterization line--I always thought confidence, for example, was part of Clark's easy-going, mellow character. A Clark that knows he's extraordinary, but gets treated like dirt for being chubby or something, might have a different view of people (a lot of contempt for one).

I think that there is no middle ground in these situations because what authors write is based on an image that most people already accept as "normal" for the fandom (which is not in RL, of course). Either we go with the "normal" that the show gave us or thematize appearance in a way where (by default) Clark's attractiveness is "less-than-normal" (since it merits being commented on repeatedly--a necessity, I would argue, since without the reminders, Clark would still look like Cain for most of us).

Phew. That was convoluted. For me though, the fundamental question would be, if Clark had red hair and freckles what purpose does that serve the fic? As a reader, as long as I get a hint of the answer, I'm okay with whatever.

alcyone

My guess is because every author wants to write a story which hasn't been done before.

E