Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Types of love and "L & C: tNaoS"

Wendy Richards posted this elsewhere but I didn't want to reply there because it really is hi- jacking that particular thread, something which I'd indicated in that other thread a few of us, Wendy included, were close to doing

So I've quoted some of Wendy's post below, at least the part that related to my comments in that other thread and reposted it here.

[QUOTE] But I feel that this takes your argument too far, Carol, and risks being insulting not just to [the author] but also to other readers:

quote:

Anyway, once Lois Lane gets demoted in Clark's emotions to just "one of Clark's women" then the story no longer feels like an L & C story, but, instead, only a Clark Kent story or a Smallville story in which that great iconic figure of Lois Lane is kicked back into a pre-feminist corner and told to be good, be quiet, to wait her turn, prove herself worthy, and then she too will get a turn to service the super man. (or even worse, semi-bimboized)

Sure, we can "love" several men at the same time or serially - because we enjoy one more than another in bed, because another is on the same wave length, or we laugh at the same jokes or because he's a great cook. But like that wry observation about the contemporary school system - when all kids are told they are special, then no one really *is* special.

I know, though, that many on these mbs are now looking for Clark-centric stories with Lois playing only a secondary role, and have less interest in the actual TV series, beyond Clark Kent.
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I'll [wendy] take the last point here, because it's an argument you've made several times. Why do you insist that readers/writers who believe that people (men or women) can love more than one person in their lifetime, and specifically that Clark could have loved someone before Lois (or love someone else after losing her) have no real interest in Lois?

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Define, "love". Wendy, I honestly think you're missing some of what I've said - I haven't denied at all that either Lois or Clark could have had a relationship with someone else and perceived that as love. I'd hoped that my comments about the different types of love, as well as my comments about Alt-Clark, made that clear.

My focus was on the premises of L & C about both the uniqueness of the relationship and also about the importance of Lois Lane. So where i don't see that reflected in a story, it's difficult to assume the writer as a "real" interest in Lois Lane.

As well, I'd hoped I'd explained why I see Lois Lane as a symbolic, iconic character. An important character in broader, pop culture terms. I don't see her as interchangeable with other women in the L& C universe (unlike the Smallville universe, say, where she may even be Chloe )

So this is something I personally look to see reflected in stories. Clearly some others on these boards do not as their comments have made clear. I haven't challenged their right to express those opinions, just noted that they are there and looked for the internal logic of what has been written.

But why is it so difficult to accept that many people who read/post on these mbs have not bought into the L & C premises about the relationship and about Lois lane's importance? You can't have it both ways - either Lois Lane is merely one of Clark Kent's several women, without any special significance, or she is not. I believe most people here get the contradiction involved in trying to rationalise both views.

Anyway, I even admitted to wanting to feel that special romantic, iconic sense of their relationship in stories but said that I knew that was pretty 'hopeless' given a post-modern "i love the guy I'm up with" construct. I thought my posts had made it clear I realised i was in a minority.

But I'll restate - *I* want to believe in that great love affair that is Lois Lane and Clark Kent, not just that Lois Lane is next in line. Many don't, and that's the way it goes.

How fans of Smallville or other Superman incarnations view Clark Kent as well as his relationship with Lois Lane is beside the point here on these mbs. I don't suspect they're surprised at having their views challenged. Were I to read fics posted on sites dedicated to those incarnations, I would know that I could expect what we see in that particular incarnation - for example, on a Smallville site: Clark and Lana or Clark and Chloe or Clark and Lois or Clark and Lex or Clark and (I can't remember the name of the girl he married!) But here I don't think it's unreasonable to look for "Lois and Clark".

btw, i too would like to see your mother-in-law meet a nice man.

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Wendy continues:

"Believe it or not, it is possible to love more than one person in a lifetime without devaluing either relationship. I've heard people say that the love they have for their second partner is 'completely different, but just as strong' and doesn't take away at all from the love they had for their first partner. As others have said in the past - even as much as we want Lois and Clark to be together for ever - if for some reason Lois lost Clark, or Clark lost Lois, would you really argue that the survivor should be alone for the rest of his/her life? But then it's pretty obvious that you do."

You're putting words in my mouth again, W. As I said repeatedly, in RL people often settle into different types of relationships or love. Their personal stories are nice, comforting but..... <g> Bring on the great L & C love story!

Wendy again:
" Yes, the Lana we saw in the alt-universe wasn't a nice person, but Clark did seem to hint that the Lana he knew was a good friend. Why couldn't a happy marriage result from that? And it wasn't as if he'd even met Lois at that stage."
No reason at all - see my original post in the other thread. Oh, and define "happy" That's as loaded as the word "love".

Wendy again:
"Besides, what seems to be clear from the story and [the author's] comments in this thread is that she is also a Lois and Clark shipper, so your suggestion that she isn't, purely based on the fact that you don't like Clark's back-story here, is just a tad unfair, don't you think?"
With respect, the story doesn't make that clear at all. As well, the author's comments indicated she's a bit ambivalent on the issue. Nevertheless I did not say that she was not an L & C shipper. As well, I ended both posts with a recognition of the author's "right to write" her own story.

Wendy again:
"You're both entitled to your opinions. ..... thread this morning."
How is my stating my opinion undermining the opinions of others? Your comment is unfair, Wendy, suggesting that only those who agree with your viewpoint may express their opinions. Is that what these mbs have become?

c.

I think, Carol, that the strong emotions this kind of discussion brings up are specific to the individual. I understand that you want to see Lois and Clark and only Lois and Clark get together. Frankly, so do I. I also believe that this was the strength of the show, that a man and woman can overcome anything - even death - if they simply persevere and make use of all the help they can get.

But I also don't understand why you feel that Clark's being a widower disqualifies him from having that "once in a lifetime" love with Lois. If a man loses his wife to death (or divorce, which can be more devastating than death) after two years of marriage, is he doomed to suffer incompleteness for the rest of his life? And what about the woman who marries a man like that? Will she be doomed to know that she will never live up to the first wife's legacy? That's a scary concept, and one with which I do not agree.

You've made the case that because Clark married Lana before he met Lois, they can never love each other with that "once in a lifetime" love. I'm pretty sure I don't agree with that premise, especially since you've let Lois off this same hook by describing her previous relationships as "Federal disasters." Yes, that was Lois's term, but a bad relationship generates as much emotional baggage for the next person as a good relationship does. This, to me, is just as much a sexist viewpoint as treating Lois as simply "the next one in line" is.

I don't recall reading a fanfic with the following premise, so let's make one up. For reasons unimportant to this example, Lois falls in love with and marries someone before she meets Clark. This someone dies in a tragic manner, leaving Lois alone until she meets Clark. Now, since Lois had a wonderful relationship with this anonymous man, is she incapable of experiencing that "one great love" with Clark? And if so, is Clark left with "sloppy seconds" because he marries a woman he can never be "once in a lifetime" in love with? (Lousy grammar, but I hope you understand what I mean.)

I understand this complaint very well, Carol, since you leveled it against one of my stories ("The Road Taken") because Clark loved Lana and married her before he met Lois and Lana died. Honestly, it stung a little then, and I'm sure that our current author feels the sting too. You're a well-respected and well-spoken member of this forum, and you always present your opinions in a thoughtful and clear manner, so a critique from you cannot be brushed away without strong consideration that the critique is not just valid as your opinion but is the correct viewpoint. The only problem I see is that you don't seem to accept the fact that others don't feel as you do about this situation.

I respect your opinion, Carol. It's just as valid and important as mine is. But it's just an opinion. You're coming across as if your viewpoint is the only correct one. It isn't. It's completely valid, and I am NOT telling you to keep it to yourself, but you should also respect the opinions and viewpoints of others on this issue. The perception, judging from your feedback postings on a number of stories, is that you do not grant that respect on this question.

And I humbly suggest that if a number of people tell you that you're coming across in a way that you don't think you're coming across, maybe the "multitude of counselors" has the correct take on the situation after all.

Please don't take this as a challenge or a put-down. I only want you to allow others to hold their views without fear of being picketed in the feedback folder. I encourage you to keep posting what you believe, but I also encourage you to open your mind to other ideas and other concepts. You don't have to accept everything someone else believes (and you shouldn't), but you should respect it.

Thank you. I hope this post spreads oil on troubled waters and calms them.

I can only speak for myself and my own opinions, but here's my two cents.

Before I met my husband I absolutely adored and loved another man. We're still good friends to this day, even though, for several reasons, things just didn't work out between us.

Then I met and married Mark. We had eight wonderful years together before he died in an accident. For at least three years afterwards I was a walking mess. As I came out of the haze and horror of that time I became friends with and then fell in love with someone else. Does that cheapen the love I had for Mark? I hate to think that it does. What I feel for this new man is completely different from the love I had and still have for Mark. They're different people (although there are some striking similarities between them).

That's reality, though. One of the things that drew me to this show and this site, was that it was about Lois and Clark and their relationship. I love the idea that they're soul mates who are destined to find each other (though I loathe that episode on so many levels - ugh).

The difference between what could happen in reality and what happens in a fic in the LNC:TNAOS universe, I think, is the point that Carol is making. I have avoided and mostly likely will continue to avoid stories where they have other loves in their lives. In reality I would cut both characters miles and miles of slack - but this is fiction. It's wish fulfillment. It's a fantasy where everything turns out perfect - like I wish real life would.

Real life doesn't come with guarantees. But the fic I read darn well better. Does that mean that people should only write stories that are solely Lois and Clark? No! It just means that I, personally, won't be very interested in reading them. I'm only one person and there are all sorts of people who love that kind of story. That's the beauty of having so many voices in the community.

I think that the idea of Lois being the only woman who is meant for Clark is something that belongs to the fairy tale the show actually was.

I mean, in real life this simply cannot be true. Or would I have to spend my life with only the second best man, because maybe the man who was meant for me didn't happen to grow up in Germany and thus we will never meet?

I agree with Sue here that in my opinion we can love more than one person with all our heart, hopefully not at the same time, but...

And I think it's a difference if Lana and Clark were married and got divorced or if Clark even committed adultary because he met Lois after Lana. That would kill the idea we have of him. I don't really see why a widower shouldn't have the chance to find real love more than once.

Of course this - Lois is the only woman- concept is part of the magic. If either of them ever dies I guess many FoLC's would like to see eternal love that is stronger than death. Lois or Clark should stay alone until they die, because there is no one else who they could ever fall in love with. But in the end that's a romantic idea we don't really go through with. Author's either don't write that scenario or they kill the characters off like in "Romeo and Juliett". I don't think that there are many people who'd like to read about a Lois or a Clark who are emotionally suffering for the rest of their lives.

I don't recall a fanfic like that either, Terry. I don't think there is one. To me, that is important. People who have written and posted LnC fanfics don't seem to have fantasies about Lois Lane living very happily with a man who isn't Clark. We all seem to agree that Lois can be truly happy only with Clark (although I do remember a Tank story where Lois has had enough of sharing her life with a superhero and walks out on him).

No. Clark isn't left with "sloppy seconds". There have been several stories where Clark has met another woman and has married her or at least had a very close relationship with her, and he has been very happy with her even though she wasn't Lois.

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I'm talking about stories like It Might have Been by Ray Reynolds, where the author even posted an nfic honeymoon vignette to underscore how sexually happy and in tune Clark was with his wife-who-was-not-Lois. There is also The Butterfly Legacy by Lynn M, where Clark's true love seems to be the woman he met in the jungle, and the memories of this woman are always with him afterwards in his marriage to Lois. There is Classicalla's A New Hero, where Lois is dead but Clark has remarried and is very happy with his new wife. And in her new story, Laura S made Clark very, very happy with Lana, and then he became a very, very grieving widower.

Yes, there have been stories where Lois has remarried, too. She did so in your Choices and Consequences, Terry, but even though the men she married (two versions, two different men) were extremely kind and loving to her, the pall of what she had lost always hung over her, and she was incapable of being happy. (In your story, Terry, Lois therefore had to be reunited with Clark.) And in Becky Bain's Ad Astra Per Aspera Lois eventually married another man, after waiting for many, many years for Clark to return from Krypton. She had a good marriage to her husband, and he was a good man, but, to use a term from LnC, he wasn't her soulmate, and she wasn't truly "meant" to be with him.

I would say that as far as LnC fanfic goes, Clark can be completely happy with a woman who isn't Lois, but Lois can't be completely happy with a man who isn't Clark. So until someone actually writes a story where Lois is very happily married to a man who isn't Clark, I don't think your question is completely valid, Terry.

However, Terry, one of the things that makes you so interesting as a writer is that you want to explore the Lois and Clark relationship "as a reality", not as a fantasy. That is to say, you find it interesting to put Lois and Clark in the kind of "relationship situations" that people have to deal with in real life. Almost all of us fall in love more than once during our lifetimes, and in most relationships jealousy and doubt are definite possibilities. And relationships may fall apart for all kinds of reasons, including the death of one of the spouses. You write very well about these "real-life threats" to Lois and Clark's relationship.

Personally, however, I agree with Sue:

I totally agree with Sue here. To me, the LnC universe should be perfect when it comes to Lois and Clark's romantic relationship, precisely because this is a fantasy. And like Carol, I think that means that their love should be unique, one of a kind and incomparable, and Lois must be every bit as important as Clark. That doesn't mean I think that other people should not be allowed to write stories where this is not so - of course not! Good heavens! No matter how how infuriatingly opinionated I may be, not even I am presumptuous enough to demand that everybody should write just the kind of Lois and Clark stories that I like. But when I write FDK on a story, my own preferences about what an ideal Lois and Clark relationship should be are going to shine through.

Ann

P.S. Just to make things absolutely, absolutely clear - of course I have no objections to "real-life" widows or widowers remarrying. On the contrary, I'm happy for them. I, too, hope that your mother-in-law can find another man to share her life with, Wendy. And however snippy I may have sounded, I'm happy for Elisabeth's grandfather, too.

Talk about baggage.

I really think that folks are letting real life intrude into the fantasy that is Lois & Clark.

Who gets first credit in the series?
It is Lois & Clark, on the paper it is Lane & Kent.

All I think Carol is saying is that stories where Lois Lane is an "Also staring" are not Lois & Clark.

I have the same reaction to L&C stories where Clark becomes without Lois.

I can't agree here, Ann. Even if nobody has written such a story that doesn't necessarily mean that people in general don't want Lois to be happy with a man who is not Clark. I'd just say that the interest in stories where Lois and Clark are not the happy couple isn't that great. After all we're all LnC fans for some reason. And I guess it's just harder to imagine that Clark would turn Lois down in an elseworld story than that it would happen the other way round. After all Lois did reject Clark.

Of course you can argue that Clark wasn't any better in the episode "Contact". But I'd say that Lois behavior throughout the first two seasons gives authors more possible starting points to develop a healthy relationship between Clark and a woman other than Lois. Besides, we know little about Clark's past relationships, while we do know that Lois used to have trouble with men before she met Clark.

You make an important observation here, Barbara. Like people such as Wendy have repeatedly told me, I can't know what other people are thinking.

Let me just say, then, that those people who want Lois Lane to be happy with other men than Clark Kent have apparently not, so far, bothered to write down and post their fantasies.

Ann

Well, as I said, I don't believe there are many people who want either Lois or Clark in a relationship with another person. Of course you can list a few, but compared to the amount of stories listed in the archive, it's nothing, really. And almost all people her said that they wouldn't read a story where not Lois and Clark are involved or going to be involved. I wouldn't read those stories either, because I believe in Lois and Clark.

Okay, I admit, I like Laura's new story, particularly because I hope that it will show a Lois, who instantly falls for Clark, and a Clark who is for once reluctant to admit that he has fallen in love as well. I think that could be an interesting aspect and something that not so many people have already written about. I don't think I've read such a story on the archive.

Sorry, Barbara, but I have to question another thing you wrote in your previous post:

In my opinion, what I know about LnC: TNAoS (and what I know about it I have chiefly learnt from reading about it here) suggests that the TV show gave us more evidence of Clark turning down Lois than the other way around.

In my opinion, Clark rejected Lois when he turned her down as Superman in that first season episode, and his rejection of her wasn't much better than her rejection of him as Clark. Yes, I can see that he found it hard to trust her with his secret when she was involved with Luthor. But why couldn't he at least warn her against Luthor as Superman, when he knew that she would almost certainly listen to him as Superman? She dismissed what he told her as Clark, so warning her against Luthor as Clark did no good. But refusing to warn her of Luthor as Superman, he pretty much made sure that she wouldn't receive and really hear the warnings she needed to hear about this criminal. So in my opinion, Clark's "love" for Lois in that episode really was mostly jealousy and a hopeless need to be loved by Lois for being Clark. In other words, it wasn't really would we could call unselfish love.

And what about Clark's decision to leave Lois, his fiancée, and go off to New krypton and fight a war? Okay, I can understand that he would feel obliged to help the people on New Krypton. But how - oh, please, how - could he consider it his duty to marry this New Kryptonian woman whom he had never seen or heard of in his life?

I read FDK on Becky Bain's story on the boards a year or two ago, and the poster (who loved the story very much) talked about how the story was about doing one's duty. Let me respectfully suggest that it wasn't Clark's duty to marry Zara no matter how you look at it. Clark's biological parents had sent him to the Earth, not to New Krypton. His foster parents had raised him as their own son according to their own beliefs and traditions. He had proposed to Lois, telling her he wanted to love her and be hers for all time, and she had given the same promise to him and pledged her heart to him.

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And then, in Becky Bain's story, Clark just up and leaves for New Krypton after giving the matter some thought for just a short while, certainly no more than a week. He not only goes to New Krypton, but he marries Zara right away, too. And he didn't just marry her, but he certainly consummated his relationship with her, too. And he had children with her. And he never sent any kind of word to Lois to inform her of what had happened. Like a sailor's fiancée, Lois walked the "shores" of the Earth for years and years and years, wondering about her loved one who had left her so many years ago, and who had promised her to love her forever. Finally, after a long, long time, she married another man. And then, after still more years, a teenaged boy arrived in Kansas, close to where Lois was now living with her husband. It turned out that Clark had sent his surviving son to Earth to keep him safe from the war that kept ravaging New Krypton! The boy stayed with Lois and her husband and their son, whom Lois had poignantly named Clark. Lois and her family grew to love the boy. But then, after several years, Clark finally returned to the Earth - but only to bring his son back to New Krypton, so the boy could marry his birth wife. Ah yes, because Clark had adopted the sexist culture of New Krypton so thoroughly that he even had his own son birth-married.

All of this didn't happen in the TV show, certainly. But still, wasn't it a most horrible rejection of Lois, his fiancée, to go to New Krypton to fight a war and marry a woman that the New Kryptonian had decided all on their own was Clark's birth wife???? Did Lois ever reject or let down Clark in a way that even comes close to what Clark did to Lois when he agreed to marry Zara?

And, Barbara, like you point out, there is the Contact thing, too. So did Clark turn down Lois as badly as Lois turned down Clark? Most definitely, in my opinion. And if people find it easier to imagine that Lois would turn down Clark than that Clark would turn down Lois, couldn't that just possibly have something to do with double standards in the assessment of men's and women's behaviour?

Ann

Did it ever occur to you that one can overinterprete such things, Ann? As an english teacher you are used to interprete texts and I'm sure you're great at what you do. Given your excellent FDK-skills I cannot say that I don't like your insights into problems like these. But I don't think that anyone paid much interest into general considerations on male and female rights when the show was created. And I don't think it's different with the people writing fanfics. The main purpose of the different story arcs was to make their coming together as difficult as humanly possible.

After all, where would have been the point in letting things go the easy way? Let's face it, Clark didn't tell Lois about Luthor as Superman. But that wasn't because it would have been out of character or because he cannot stand to approach Lois in his superhuman character. In the end it was, because the writers of this show didn't want it to be too easy. What if Lois had believed Superman? The show wouldn't have been the same. After all many good episodes wouldn't have worked if Clark and Lois had actually talked somewhere in the process.

Of course you are right that the producers of the show didn't want things to resolve themselves too easily for Lois and Clark. And of course that is the real reason why Lois and Clark rejected one another the way they did.

I'm just saying that I don't much like the idea that Clark has been seriously, truly in love before he met Lois. (And for goodness sake, don't give me stories where he is seriously, truly in love with someone else after he has met Lois!) Of course I can accept that he really liked someone before he met Lois, but that is not the same thing...

Give me Lois and Clark forever!

Ann

It looks like opening this topic was like throwing a live grenade into a crowded room.

Ann wrote:
It's interesting that you'd point out "It Might Have Been" to support your position, Ann, because Ray is a self-proclaimed first-season Lois hater. Part of the reason he wrote the story was to rub Lois's nose in Clark's happiness with someone else (and it was NOT just about sex, as you imply).

In "The Butterfly Legacy," Lynn didn't make Gillian his "one and only soulmate" at all. Clark and Gillian were together because Clark thought Lois was married to someone else and was therefore lost to him. Another valid viewpoint is that Clark believed that Lois had rejected him and was open to receiving comfort from another woman, which would have made Gillian the "sloppy seconds." In any case, he'd already chosen to leave Gillian and return to Lois before he found out she'd been killed.

In "A New Hero," Lois had been gone for quite some time before Clark allowed himself to get close to another woman. To classify Clark in this story as being a "serial womanizer" is totally unwarranted. Classicalla didn't portray Clark in that way at all.

If we want to view these stories as fairy tales, we can. It certainly isn't realistic to write about a flying man who can't be hurt by anything man can conceive or construct. And if we want to write about a perfect relationship between two people, we can do that too. There's no law or rule which prohibits it. I only ask that we all allow others to express our opinions without being clobbered for it.

Interestingly, I just found Irene Dutch's excellent "Redemption," where an AIDS-ravaged Claude comes back into Lois's life to try to correct his past wrongs. This was a bit that I found pertinent to this discussion. ("...that man..." refers to Claude in this excerpt and "...she..." refers to Lois.)

Like I said, interesting. Lois had loved Claude - or, at least, she had loved the man she thought Claude was. If we don't accept this, we have to say that Lois went to bed with Claude just for the sex, and that's not what I got either from the pilot episode or from the fanfic I've read since then. She really loved Claude, but she loves Clark far more, and it's so much better for both of them because Clark loves her, too, unlike Claude, who only used her to further his own career.

All this is to say that if Clark loved and married someone before he met Lois, it does not destroy their chances of having "that one great love" together. Nor does it make Clark a serial womanizer. Nor does it devalue Lois and make her just "the next one in line." Yes, our fanfic is fantasy, but if someone's story doesn't line up with our fantasy, it isn't a direct attack on our cherished beliefs. It just means that Laura's fantasy world is a little different. It's neither better nor worse because of that, and it certainly isn't wrong for the same reason.

Can't we all just get along?

I swore I wasn't getting into this one. But I have to point out here, Ann, that such a story would be within the rules for this forum, so authors are quite entitled to write a story along this premise if they so choose to explore it. (Whether they'd get many readers is another thing entirely. ).

I know you didn't mean otherwise - unlike other posters who let their opinions become bludgeons, you do tend to recognise that your tastes don't hold sway here exclusively (and say so, too! ) But thought I'd nail it down anyway.

I must confess to having a wry smile every time this old horse comes around again for discussion. Back in the day, many authors like myself, Wendy and others were repeatedly told we were "killing the fandom", "destroying everything Superman stands for", that we "obviously hate Superman", that we 'don't care about the characters"...because we were writing and posting angst/tearjerkers. We'd come into a fandom, you see, which at the time had really mostly only had romances and comedies prior to that and we were told (sometimes quite viciously) that we had no right writing anything else.

Not that it stopped us.

So it's been a delight for me, personally, to see the fandom open up so much, lighten up so much, in recent years, with a new influx of authors not afraid to stretch the envelope some and explore themes and plots of all shades and hues.

We can debate this old chestnut till the cows come home, (and are welcome to do so, of course) but really it will always come down to this:

There will be stories we enjoy and which suit our tastes. There will be stories we don't. But all are welcome to be written and posted here, so long as they follow the small amount of forum rules we've laid down.

Everyone is welcome, too, to post their opinion that a story doesn't suit them (although we do like such negative fdk to be balanced with something positive). The rule here is to remember that your opinion is only one of many and in the end the story belongs to its author, who is the final authority on how its written. What won't be tolerated is telling an author that they can't write something, that they should be posting in another fandom, or demanding that admins remove stories from the mbs...simply because they don't suit an individual's specific tastes or pov.

And if a story really offends your sense of who and what the characters are so that you really can't in all conscience say anything positive about it...stop reading. Leave it to those who enjoy that sort of thing and go read something else you do like.

Life is too short for anything else.

LabRat

Actually, Terry, I'm not implying that Clark's relationship with this other woman in Ray's fic was all about sex. But I find it very easy to believe that Ray is a self-proclaimed Lois hater, and I can certainly believe that the point of his story, including his nfic epilogue, was to rub Lois's nose in Clark's happiness with someone else. And, Terry, if someone writes an LnC fic with the explicit purpose of making Lois suffer, then I'll reserve the right to hate that fic, and to think very little of the author. I don't claim to have an objective "right" to these feelings of disgust, but I don't apologize for having them.

However, Lynn, Nancy and Laura clearly didn't write their fics with the explicit purpose of making Lois unhappy, and while I might question aspects of their stories, I certainly have no right to hate them - and I don't, I very much want to point out. For example, I followed Nancy's story quite closely, because I was fascinated and delighted with her portrayal of Clark and Lois's children. I did not, admittedly, like Clark's relationship with a new woman, but in no way can I describe Nancy's Clark as a serial womanizer. On the contrary, Clark's behaviour in Nancy's story was very responsible, caring and honourable, and we would be so fortunate if more people in real life were so honourable and good. My only complaint, really, is that in Nancy's story Lois was clearly not "Clark's one true love" - and that is something that I, bottom line, always want to see in a Lois and Clark fanfic.

Ann

<DJ peeks in>

Just here to put my meager 2 cents worth in. *ahem*

There are a lot of interesting and valid points being made here. But here are 3 important things to remember:

1. The writers on this fandom are not paid or compensated in any way shape or form (except perhaps by the gracious and wonderful fdk they receive) for their stories. And while I personally enjoy 'constructive' fdk - perhaps not as much as the "wow, I really liked that chapter" fdk <g> - not all 'negative' fdk is 'constructive'. So let's keep that in mind. I would hate to feel that I personally had ever posted something that would discourage someone from writing.

2. Opinions are like noses - everyone has one and some are bigger and more pronounced than others - LOL - but we all have them and are entitled to them. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that we always need to poke that nose out and show it to everyone. <g> And it certainly doesn't mean that we should expect everyone else to have the exact same nose - LOL.

3. These are some of the most friendly and encouraging message boards that I've ever been involved with. Let's make sure we all do our part to keep them that way. I've been on the receiving end of unpleasant fdk in the past and it's not an enducement to continue writing, believe me.

When it comes right down to it - we all love LnC: TNAOS - in our own ways - otherwise we wouldn't be here... would we?

So to paraphrase 2 of my favorite things in this thread so far:

We all have different tastes and some of us are going to prefer some stories more than others. So if you don't like a story - then don't read it. Move on to something you do like.

And yes, let's all get along - because this is such a wonderful community to be a part of.

Anyway, I'm done now. <g>

-- DJ, signing off.

***EDITED***

I realized I had one more point to make. <bg> From an author's point of view... if you want to make a point that you don't enjoy a particular kind of story, then don't offer fdk on that story. Since fdk is the lifeblood that keeps an author writing - at least for me it is - the absence of fdk on a particular story is going to speak volumes... without saying a word. Only my opinion, of course <pokes her own big nose out of the thread>

There's one more point I'd like to offer up here - which is an important one, I think.

The type of story which Ann, Carol and others enjoy and which suit their tastes make up more or less the vast majority of fanfic posted on these mbs. Probably 90% or so.

By contrast, the type of fanfic which you don't enjoy - but which many others do - occupies a very small space in the entirety of the fanfic posted here.

Surely, you can afford to be tolerant of such a small number of stories you dislike and allow them and their fans the small amount of space they share with you out of the bounty you enjoy? Where they can play and have fun, too.

It's not too much to ask, I don't think, that this little 'niche' in the fandom can have its own space to thrive. After all, it's not as though you guys aren't well catered for elsewhere.


LabRat

I'm not familiar with all of the fics mentioned, but are any of them labelled as Esleworld or Alt-Universe? That might solve some of the problem because if it is labelled as an Esleworld or an AU story then people can't readily complain that our Clark wouldn't have more than one love because the story is not about our Clark but some other Clark.

After all, a story that has Clark sleeping with Lana or marrying before Lois definitely is not about L&C:TNAOS. It is either an AU or an Elseworld because that didn't happen on the TV show. Now if you were writing about Smallville, that's a different story and would most definitely fit with that show

In my opinion I don't feel that Clark should be doomed to a life alone simply because he hasn't met Lois. However, the show was titled Lois and Clark for a reason and that is because the lead characters got together. Believe me I've debated circles around my friend who only know of the the whole Superman thing from watching Smallville and will say the Lana and Clark belong together. Of course I don't agree, but I don't feel that Clark would 'settle' for Lana because he hasn't met Lois. Clark is the kind of person who has a lot of love to give and while Lana may not be our first choice for him. It is clear that he once loved her and that they did share something. So does that make Clark an insensitive coot if he moved on? I personally don't think so. I feel that both Lana and Lois wouldn't want Clark to spend the rest of his life alone if they died young particularly with the secret that he bears.

Interesting debate.

I personally love to see a story where Lois and Clark end up together… they are my favorite and I eat them up like crack.

BUT

I also love seeing authors here play out every single situation and aspect that they can think of for our two heroes. I like to think of it this way:

1. Every story written here is like an alt-universe. The original was obviously the series we saw on TV. No author is ever going to get it exactly like the show (unless of course they were the writers for the show) although some do come pretty darned close.
2. Because I look at every story like an alt-universe I can read it and know that my little tightly woven dreams and aspirations for the characters were already fulfilled in the show. The characters we know and love DID end up together and things turned out pretty okay.

Now that is the basis I go into every story with. Then I get to see our authors play with it. What’s if? That’s the question we all ask. What if this detail was changed? What if this person hadn’t had this as an influence in their life? How would it have changed their personality? What if they took this path in life instead of another?

Oh my! The possibilities are endless! And I for one and so glad they are. If there weren’t we would have run out of good fanfiction a long time ago. So what if sometimes they don’t instantly fall in love with each other? Maybe this author’s Lois and Clark had vastly different backgrounds. That’s fabulous! That means I get to meet a new set of people. It would get really boring if I had to read about the same Lois and Clark over and over.

So, my advise to everyone is to sit back and enjoy. Let your mind think outside the boundaries and enjoy the exploration of all these different possibilities. So what if it didn’t happen exactly like it did in the tv show or in the comics? That’s why we write fanfiction and not official licensed novels and comics for DC. Get rid of the walls in the box you are holding your imagination in. It is so much more fun when you do.